Senate Beats Down Patriot Act

[Greg B]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rss_technology


This is a sign things are changing in Washington. With the news that the government was spying on us after 911, this rejection to extend major parts of the Patriot Act may be a good thing or a bad thing.

Terrorism ain't war. It's a whole nother ball game and the general rules don't apply.

[Lensman]

That's awesome.

[BradM]

The patriot act is scary shit, it sets the tone that EVERYONE who questions the government is a terrorist.

Read into it, it leaves WAY too much to be interpereted by the judiciary (IE you're FUCKED if they want you to be for any reason)

Scaaaaaaaaary

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by BradM

The patriot act is scary shit, it sets the tone that EVERYONE who questions the government is a terrorist.

Read into it, it leaves WAY too much to be interpereted by the judiciary (IE you're FUCKED if they want you to be for any reason)

Scaaaaaaaaary

Ja, and now the shit is hitting the fan. The Senate now realizes they ended up in some 'Revenge of the Sith' shit and granted Palpatine too many powers.

Now they realize they got scammed and with the new revelations about the domestic spying and Condoleeza Rice actually saying something like "It's okay to do it" or some shit, it shows exactly what we've been up against.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

That shit wasnt made to stop terrorists. It was made to stop Americans from Stopping the government. Some Senators were tapped and experienced Patriot Act herassment. Ask A Kennedy. Plus, the Bushies way of allowing his Corp buddies in the USA to commit Corporate espionage on the side.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by Greg B

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rss_technology


This is a sign things are changing in Washington. With the news that the government was spying on us after 911, this rejection to extend major parts of the Patriot Act may be a good thing or a bad thing.

Terrorism ain't war. It's a whole nother ball game and the general rules don't apply.

Not to mention the Diebold CEO getting axed and some very nasty allegations flying around about voting irregularities in the last two presidential elections.

If everything works out for the best, conservatives will be humiliated and shamed and we won't have to listen to them for a few years.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

That shit wasnt made to stop terrorists. It was made to stop Americans from Stopping the government. Some Senators were tapped and experienced Patriot Act herassment. Ask A Kennedy. Plus, the Bushies way of allowing his Corp buddies in the USA to commit Corporate espionage on the side.

Omigosh! AlienQ, this is scary.

The NY Times says the President personally allowed eavesdropping dozens of times in direct violation of the laws.

If true, he went from shakey ground to earthquake.

This is not good.

[dissipate]

Finally they get somthing right.

[Redrob]

Fuckin' Christo-naziis trying to take over our country.

Before GW's administration is out of office, we will find the secret torture prisons, the spying on American citizens, the unlawful war on the Iraqi people, the scamming of billions of dollars by the Vice President's company, deals with lobbiest to pay for legislation, redrawn legislative districts in Texas to get rid of congressmen that don't play with De Lay, and the stacking of the federal judiciary with conservative extremist judges who don't value your civil rights.

It sucks and some people should stand trial for some of the abuses.

[Manowar]

Good to see it gone

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Redrob

Fuckin' Christo-naziis trying to take over our country.

Before GW's administration is out of office, we will find the secret torture prisons, the spying on American citizens, the unlawful war on the Iraqi people, the scamming of billions of dollars by the Vice President's company, deals with lobbiest to pay for legislation, redrawn legislative districts in Texas to get rid of congressmen that don't play with De Lay, and the stacking of the federal judiciary with conservative extremist judges who don't value your civil rights.

It sucks and some people should stand trial for some of the abuses.

Bruh, I may not agree with all you've said, but I can see how far this administration has gone. Scary precedents.

[Doctor Dre]

I think it's only a little part of the patriot act that was beaten down, most of the thing was made permanent by senate. Thoses were the new additions to it.

[Greg B]

Actually, what's scary is you KNOW at some point these powers of domestic espionage have been abused. The President doesn't know about them just like he got bullshit intelligence about Iraq. Now they're backpeddling to justify these fuck ups by saying how independent and free the Iraqi people are now.

This is gonna be one big quagmire that's going to marr the 2008 elections and the Dems are gonna put Hillary up on top and the Repubs are gonna get Jeb Bush and Condi Rice up against them. And the American people in their stimulus response knuckledragging mentality will vote for the party that looks best in a suit and evening wear.

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Actually, what's scary is you KNOW at some point these powers of domestic espionage have been abused. The President doesn't know about them just like he got bullshit intelligence about Iraq. Now they're backpeddling to justify these fuck ups by saying how independent and free the Iraqi people are now.

This is gonna be one big quagmire that's going to marr the 2008 elections and the Dems are gonna put Hillary up on top and the Repubs are gonna get Jeb Bush and Condi Rice up against them. And the American people in their stimulus response knuckledragging mentality will vote for the party that looks best in a suit and evening wear.

The CIA is the most anti democratic organisation ever ...

[Bansheelinks]

good riddance to the PA

[WonderWoman]

I am so happy that they shot down at least SOME of the Patriot Act. I mean if you want to spy on your people, take off the democracy label and just turn it into a monarchy or dictatorship. I lived in countries where they are very up front about the fact that Big Brother is always watching and spying on you. At least they were honest about it and you knew that you had no rights,

[smack]

i just hope that this is the begining of something meaningful in washington.

i would really like to see people shrug off this shroud of fear that has been placed on them and start thinking reasonably about what is going on here.

this is a good first, hopefully it will continue.

[BradM]

It does sound like the senate is sick of the shit. Great news.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by MoneyShotMadame

I am so happy that they shot down at least SOME of the Patriot Act. I mean if you want to spy on your people, take off the democracy label and just turn it into a monarchy or dictatorship. I lived in countries where they are very up front about the fact that Big Brother is always watching and spying on you. At least they were honest about it and you knew that you had no rights,

I don't know about you, but I'm old enough to remember a guy named J. Edgar Hoover. He was lord over the FBI for decades. He did what he wanted when he wanted regardless of what the Constitution said. If he was alive today and had the technology we have, lord knows what terrors we'd be undergoing.

Today is far less vicious than it was when I was growing up. They would drag you outta your house and dust your ass off if they wanted to. If it hadn't been for the civil rights upheavals of the 60's and 70's and the crusading journalism we'd all be slaves by now. We have it easy compared to the old days lemme tell you!

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by dig420

If everything works out for the best, conservatives will be humiliated and shamed and we won't have to listen to them for a few years.

Dream on. The American public is for the better part stupid and has zero attention span. Bush's series of speeches last week boosted his popularity rating and tonight when he preempts Desperate Housewives to "sweep away" the latest accusations and pump up the "successes" in Iraq even more lost sheep will come flocking back.

[theking]

There are many aspects of Patriot Act that were made permanent with its first passage.

There are sixteen provisions of the Patriot Act that had a sunset clause and will expire December the 31st.

FYI...there is not a single Senator (with the possible exception of 1) that is not in favor of the Patriot Act. There are some Senators that believe some...if not all...of the 16 provisions...need to be modified in one way or another.

The Republicans thus far are demanding that these 16 provisions be made permanent...as is.

It is a typical political power play between the two parties. Ultimately I suspect the Republicans will (instead of allowing the 16 provisions to sunset) will agreed to negotiate modification of some...if not all...of the 16 provisions.

[theking]

Originally Posted by MoneyShotMadame

I am so happy that they shot down at least SOME of the Patriot Act. I mean if you want to spy on your people, take off the democracy label and just turn it into a monarchy or dictatorship. I lived in countries where they are very up front about the fact that Big Brother is always watching and spying on you. At least they were honest about it and you knew that you had no rights,

The only thing that has been shot down at this point in time is the Republican's demand that the 16 sunset provisions be made permanent...as is.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

I think it's only a little part of the patriot act that was beaten down, most of the thing was made permanent by senate. Thoses were the new additions to it.

No new provisons were added. Thus far the only thing "beaten down" is the Republican's demand that the sunset provisions be made permanent...as is.

[theking]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

That shit wasnt made to stop terrorists. It was made to stop Americans from Stopping the government. Some Senators were tapped and experienced Patriot Act herassment. Ask A Kennedy. Plus, the Bushies way of allowing his Corp buddies in the USA to commit Corporate espionage on the side.

Pig shit.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I don't know about you, but I'm old enough to remember a guy named J. Edgar Hoover. He was lord over the FBI for decades. He did what he wanted when he wanted regardless of what the Constitution said. If he was alive today and had the technology we have, lord knows what terrors we'd be undergoing.

Today is far less vicious than it was when I was growing up. They would drag you outta your house and dust your ass off if they wanted to. If it hadn't been for the civil rights upheavals of the 60's and 70's and the crusading journalism we'd all be slaves by now. We have it easy compared to the old days lemme tell you!

In a convoluted way there is alot of truth to what you posted. Many are complaining about loss of freedom...loss of free speech when in fact more freedom exits than in the past history of the US and certainly there is more freedom of speech than in the past history of the US.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by theking

Pig shit.

Is stupidity painful, or is it more like you're so dumb that you don't even know how dumb you are, therefore there is no pain?

Just curious.

[MrJackMeHoff]

that link goes to skin change dna story

[theking]

Originally Posted by dig420

Is stupidity painful, or is it more like you're so dumb that you don't even know how dumb you are, therefore there is no pain?

Just curious.

Stupidity seems to be your domain...Danny boy...but then again you have an excuse...you know "this is your brain on drugs" syndrome.

[dig420]

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...29#post8879829

Is it still real to you?

[dig420]

Originally Posted by theking

Stupidity seems to be your domain...Danny boy...but then again you have an excuse...you know "this is your brain on drugs" syndrome.

I take it the second, painless option is the correct one.

How nice for you!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I don't know about you, but I'm old enough to remember a guy named J. Edgar Hoover. He was lord over the FBI for decades. He did what he wanted when he wanted regardless of what the Constitution said. If he was alive today and had the technology we have, lord knows what terrors we'd be undergoing.

Today is far less vicious than it was when I was growing up. They would drag you outta your house and dust your ass off if they wanted to. If it hadn't been for the civil rights upheavals of the 60's and 70's and the crusading journalism we'd all be slaves by now. We have it easy compared to the old days lemme tell you!

One thing I always find interesting about your posts is that you have your own relatively long life history to pull from. It's neat to see somebody who has gained wisdom over time and can share it. You've seen so much change in society in your lifetime. No better way than to hear it from somebody who has lived it.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I don't know about you, but I'm old enough to remember a guy named J. Edgar Hoover. He was lord over the FBI for decades. He did what he wanted when he wanted regardless of what the Constitution said. If he was alive today and had the technology we have, lord knows what terrors we'd be undergoing.

Today is far less vicious than it was when I was growing up. They would drag you outta your house and dust your ass off if they wanted to. If it hadn't been for the civil rights upheavals of the 60's and 70's and the crusading journalism we'd all be slaves by now. We have it easy compared to the old days lemme tell you!

Sure this is true. The fear is that it's all coming back. You have conservative 'scholars' and pundits praising McCarthy in broad daylight, Bush and the Justice Dept. doing everything in their power to increase govt. surveillance power at the expense of individual liberty, Rush Limbaugh spewing poison like the second coming of Father McCoughlin and anytime a public figure speaks out about it they're accused of being a traitor and a supporter of 'the enemy', whoever the enemy happens to be that day. If you read about what's happening with Diebold there is at least a reasonable chance that the last two elections were illegitimate and we're effectively living under a coup RIGHT NOW.

On top of that you have your usual apologists like theking who think they know it all and will actually continue voting for these people even after their perfidy is exposed.

We still have it easy compared to the days when the President was siccing hardhats on protestors and Hoover was blackmailing every politician on the hill, but the concerns over the direction in which the govt is moving are very real and very well founded.

[theking]

Originally Posted by dig420

On top of that you have your usual apologists like theking who think they know it all and will actually continue voting for these people even after their perfidy is exposed.

I am not a apologist. I am a defender against misinformation...BS...and out and out lies...the truth will suffice...thank you very much.

Danny boy...your memory sucks (this is your brain on drugs). Assuming that you are speaking about Republicans...I have never voted for "these people"...and you have been informed of that repeatedly.

[Redrob]

Some people argue using the red herring to deflect the argument,

Other attack the speaker or message(Ad hominum),

Others appeal to authority, opinion and belief,

Others present illogical arguments not understanding the concept of a principle, ie. what is sufficient and what is necessary to bring about a condition,

I've seen all this and more.

The correct methods to argue a point include:

1. Use of Principles
2. Cause and Effect
3. Compare and Contrast
4. Use of Experts
5. Use of Examples

If you stick to these methods, and watch out for logic flaws, you will make sense and be persuasive.

Just a thought.

[WonderWoman]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I don't know about you, but I'm old enough to remember a guy named J. Edgar Hoover. He was lord over the FBI for decades. He did what he wanted when he wanted regardless of what the Constitution said. If he was alive today and had the technology we have, lord knows what terrors we'd be undergoing.

Today is far less vicious than it was when I was growing up. They would drag you outta your house and dust your ass off if they wanted to. If it hadn't been for the civil rights upheavals of the 60's and 70's and the crusading journalism we'd all be slaves by now. We have it easy compared to the old days lemme tell you!

I agree with you, I have lived in countries that are far worse than that though. Countries that dont care if you have an American passport.

[pornguy]

Just getting rid of a few items from this is not enough. The entire thing needs to be re done.

[theking]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Just getting rid of a few items from this is not enough. The entire thing needs to be re done.

That is not going to happen as much of the Patriot Act is permanent law and will remain so...unless the Supreme Court knocks it down...in some year from the future.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by theking

I am not a apologist. I am a defender against misinformation...BS...and out and out lies...the truth will suffice...thank you very much.

Danny boy...your memory sucks (this is your brain on drugs). Assuming that you are speaking about Republicans...I have never voted for "these people"...and you have been informed of that repeatedly.

Hey did you ever find anyone who wanted to meet you at a convention yet? We have another one coming up soon.

[media]

Amen!678

[theking]

Originally Posted by dig420

Hey did you ever find anyone who wanted to meet you at a convention yet? We have another one coming up soon.

I have never asked anyone to meet me at a convention...so the answer to your question...Danny boy...is no. I do not do conventions...Danny boy...thank you very much.

But of course this has been explained...another this is "your brain on drugs" thing.

[nofx]

good read

good thread

bumpity fucking bump

[dig420]

Originally Posted by theking

I have never asked anyone to meet me at a convention...so the answer to your question...Danny boy...is no. I do not do conventions...Danny boy...thank you very much.

But of course this has been explained...another this is "your brain on drugs" thing.

Try calling me 'Danny Boy' one more time, I'm sure it'll become a really effective insult if you just stick with it.

Since sticking with a simple, repetitive task is no problem and indeed sometimes a pleasure for a dull mind, I'm sure you'll have no problems.

[theking]

Originally Posted by dig420

Try calling me 'Danny Boy' one more time, I'm sure it'll become a really effective insult if you just stick with it.

Since sticking with a simple, repetitive task is no problem and indeed sometimes a pleasure for a dull mind, I'm sure you'll have no problems.

Ahh...OK...Danny boy.

[tristan_D]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Terrorism ain't war. It's a whole nother ball game and the general rules don't apply.

Terrorism is one of the most lucrative industry of this generation.

[theking]

Originally Posted by tristan_D

Terrorism is one of the most lucrative industry of this generation.

Hmm...and how much have you made from it??

[EviLSuperstaR]

Originally Posted by theking

Hmm...and how much have you made from it??

A lot, if he has ties to Halliburton.

[theking]

Originally Posted by EviLSuperstaR

A lot, if he has ties to Halliburton.

Hmm...I was not aware that Halliburton is in the business of "terrorism". Thanks for educating me.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by dig420

Sure this is true. The fear is that it's all coming back. You have conservative 'scholars' and pundits praising McCarthy in broad daylight, Bush and the Justice Dept. doing everything in their power to increase govt. surveillance power at the expense of individual liberty, Rush Limbaugh spewing poison like the second coming of Father McCoughlin and anytime a public figure speaks out about it they're accused of being a traitor and a supporter of 'the enemy', whoever the enemy happens to be that day. If you read about what's happening with Diebold there is at least a reasonable chance that the last two elections were illegitimate and we're effectively living under a coup RIGHT NOW.

On top of that you have your usual apologists like theking who think they know it all and will actually continue voting for these people even after their perfidy is exposed.

We still have it easy compared to the days when the President was siccing hardhats on protestors and Hoover was blackmailing every politician on the hill, but the concerns over the direction in which the govt is moving are very real and very well founded.

Well, I can agree with you unfortunately things have come to this or are headed that way like a tsunami.

We're way off-kilter here as the President has powers no other President has ever had. With todays advanced technologies and super-weapons we have no idea how the citizens will fare. Just this past week several old enemies of the Republicans have died. Jack Anderson, Bill Proxmire to name a few. It's scary.

I mentioned this on a radio show years ago. Soon, the mysteries of our genetics and physics will be at hand and whoever is in power will dominate and or destroy if we don't stand up fast enough. The Republicans, no, the psychotics using the Right Wing as an excuse to advance their objectives are desparate. They miss the good ol' days of domination but they didn't realize how effective the Internet and Web would be. Really put a crimp in their style.

All this bullshit about freeing Iraq is like me complaining about my own dog dumping on my living room rug. If I hadn't let the dog in the house there wouldn't be shit to deal with. The UK and the U.S. are responsible for the Iraq crisis and Middle East crisis altogether. Now we're up to our asses in alligators because of the swamp they created.

It's bullshit, a fucking lie, a Satanic deception no-end.

[EviLSuperstaR]

Originally Posted by theking

Hmm...I was not aware that Halliburton is in the business of "terrorism". Thanks for educating me.

"Money making from terrorism" is the twitch you gave it but suddenly are not aware of....
So many things you are not aware of. You must become the next president