That was a first class post, bhutocracy and very much in line with how I feel. England is the greatest, most offensive class based society in the world and when you're there you can feel it in the streets... lords, ladies, earls, dukes, duchesses, queens, kings, princes... it really is La La land over there.

As the Sex Pistols sang "God save the Queen... the Fascist regime..."

I'm sorry but Joe if you think you can feel it on the streets than you either only visited tourists traps geared towards forgieners who like to pretend the royals still matter policitally or you have watched Mary Poppins too many times.

I live in the city with Buck House and I think the way that is is positioned in the city is perfect and represents its effect on the city. It is tucked down a long road that is removed from the rest of the city. When you go down there you don't feel like you are in London. It is this different world where there are trees, no busses (they aren't allowed) and flowers that suddently appear fully grown. It is also full of tourists. Real Londoners don't go there except maybe as a short cut. I lived here for five years before I even saw the changing of the gaurd and even then I only went because my parents were over on a visit.

Whenever the debate it had on wether or not to abolish the monarch all together the top argument for keeping it always boils down to tourism. People that like to treat London like some sort of royal Epcot or something won't come if they don't think they have a chance of bumping into the Queen.

Is there a class system? Yes but there is in the States too and many other countries. There was a great program on tv over here a few years back called 'America's hidden class system' that did an expose on sororites and frats and their relationship with the upperclasses and top employers.

You say it is the greatest class based society? Do you know anything about the rest of the world? Ever heard of the cast system, for example? Last year I studied Asian Pacific politics and learned about Japanese culture and how for a long time getting jobs with top companies depended on what school, etc. Perhaps you only think it is the greatest because you only watch English language movie and tv?


I will tell you, I live here and I work here. I moved with real people. Unless you move in some sort of extreme upper class world than the class system means nothing to you and doesn't effect your life. We have many many buisness people that are highly sucessful that weren't born into 'high society'.

This is not the 17th century. Very few people go through their daily lives even thinking about the class system or royalty. They are much more concerned with their lives and if they blame anyone for things going wrong in the country it is the goverment and not the Queen. That is because, unlike you they know that the Queen is a figure head. She does nothing that actually matters. Infact, the whole royal family is forbidden from expressing political views in public.

Now, stop watching costume dramas and learn the real UK if you are going to comment at all. I say the opposite to the Brits who seem to think that all of us in the States live in mansions, wear ten gallon hats and carry machine guns. *movies are not real life* Royaltyland is not a UK anex of Euro Disney.

To the Aussies: I agree, I was suprised you didn't go republic. I know if I was there I would want to do the same. I would be thrilled if the UK ditched the figure heads too. It won't happen until this Queen is gone.

I have spent over two months in England and I guarantee I've seen more of the world than you have. 24 countries at last count so I'm insulted that you seem to think that my view of English society comes from the movies. It doesn't. It comes from that of a tourist but i don't stay in hotels and i don't usually go to tourist traps. I walk the streets and I open my eyes and ears.

I have also spent much time in continental Europe and let me tell you there is a big difference. I could feel the classism and the snobbery in the streets of London. People don't even have the decency to look you in the eye and I think I saw about three people smiling. I thought the Lake District was far more pleasant.

But this isn't the point. This thread was about the Queen mother and quite frankly I still don't give a shit. I'm more likely to care about the death of someone like John Lennon. Someone who acheived greatness through his own talents and genius, not from being born into the right family.

That isn't classism, that is the result of living in a city. I agree that the tube (underground) is one of the rudest places on the planet but that isn't classism. The lake district is beautiful but it is like comparing downtown manhattan to a farm somewhere in the middle of the States.

On the Europe note, I found Paris to be more snobby than London but hey to each their own. Seriously though the class system really doesn't run most people's lives over here. In six years of living in 'da hood' and until recently working in the posh district of I had an interesting position to judge the contrast.


I appoloagize to you for the generalisation because it usally is those that have only watched films that talk like that. I also would care a lot more for John Lennon. Infact I don't particuarly care about the Queen Mum. There just is a difference between not caring and being rude which is what a number of people have been. The feelings the older generation, in particular, have for the woman was connected to her spirit lifting in WW2 when this place was being bombed to hell. I hate silverspoonism too but not going to spit on someone's grave.


25 countries does indeed make me jealous. I am trying hard to catch up.

Rudeness or Irreverence..? I say irreverence because I don't think it's possible to be rude to someone who's dead. For chrissakes nobody here even knew the Queen Mother, she was just some woman on tv accepting buches of flowers from kiddies and opening things and stuff. She certainly wasn't someone who was elected to a position or had to go to an interview to get the job she had. Nothing is sacred, not even the Queen Mum. People shouldn't come to a place called Go Fuck Yourself.com unless they're prepared to be offended. I get offended every day but thats just freedom of speech.

And as for London, have you ever been to Amsterdam? I would never go back to London because Amsterdam is so close by and it is an absolutely extraordinary place of tolerance and respect and openness. I reckon London has a lot to learn from Amsterdam.

Yes I have and just recently. I liked it a great deal but there are things about London I like better. It is all personal taste.

Ireverence is not saying anything at all. Rudeness is..well being rude.

And of course, if I wante a real debate I wouldn't be on this board. I've been around way too long to not understand that.