How do you feel about adult video and internet industry convergence?

[AmeliaG]

How do you feel about adult video and internet industry convergence?

I've been going to the adult video shows off and on since they were still part of CES. The parties during a video show are more likely to feature attendees who can do sex tricks i.e. the famous trannie peeing in own mouth photo which was reposted from SpookyCash forever. Okay, the concurrent bondage convention might have influenced that one too. But I always get the most business done at the internet shows.

A majority of adult sites probably feature at least some video at this point, but I feel like the two segments of adult really come from very different mindsets and methodologies at this point.

How do you all feel about adult video and adult internet coming together at the same convention? Do you think the different segments of overall adult industry really have that much crossover? Do you think the same sorts of people are involved in the video and internet ends of things? Is convergence happening or is the convention an anomaly? Would it be good for video and internet to converge?

[After Shock Media]

We hit both already so it is really not that different for us. We have been in the video side and I lead up the internet side.

There will be some added chaos and confusion with the fans, since large amounts arrive for the video side on the non industry only days. Hopefully assorted programs and webmasters are ready for this element. True they should not be allowed into the internet side of the trade show, it is bound to happen some or at very least cause some line delays and confusion. The hallway is going to be a bitch!

As for mindsets a good majority of the video side companies already have or are in the process of setting up an internet division. Though most of the goto video side people are often hard to find in the center and ussually are either camped out in the hidden portion of booths or elsewhere as they really do not need to deal with fans at all.

Though one side point is the number of the video side companies that were screwed or taken advantage of by several in the internet side. Most of them remember the who, what, when, and such of those that did. They do not have the internet sides short term memory.

I also know it does fuck up the season for many models/performers who often attend and get booked for both shows. Means less work for them and some are a wee bit pissed about it.

[Joesho]

I think it is great.

[BlackCrayon]

video is becoming what everyone wants, redlight, anabolic, platinumx, 3rd degree, etc make good shit and only makes sense that they would make websites out of it as well. though im not sure what they will think of it, selling dvds is a much better moneymaker in my opinion, and if people have cheaper access to 100's of videos on one site, dvd sales might slump some but it all depends on if video guys are stickly video guys and don't do much on the net and viceversa.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

video is becoming what everyone wants, redlight, anabolic, platinumx, 3rd degree, etc make good shit and only makes sense that they would make websites out of it as well. though im not sure what they will think of it, selling dvds is a much better moneymaker in my opinion, and if people have cheaper access to 100's of videos on one site, dvd sales might slump some but it all depends on if video guys are stickly video guys and don't do much on the net and viceversa.

It is my possibly mistaken impression that webmasters tend to make more dough than video producers. What would give you the impressions than producing DVDs pays more?

[xNetworx]

I like porn stars

[Elli]

I think it makes sense for the two aspects of the industry to come together. After all, it's the same product, just a different venue of selling it (hard good vs soft good). However I think the video convention usually attracts a lot of fans/consumers. That's all well and good, but Internext is B2B based, not consumer based. Not sure if it's a problem yet, as this is the first go-round, but it's an issue that might need to be addressed.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

It is my possibly mistaken impression that webmasters tend to make more dough than video producers. What would give you the impressions than producing DVDs pays more?

Because people do not understand the math, the production costs, the actual real distribution numbers, what percentage actually pays or at least on time, who gets what cut, piracy, and so on. All in all when you break it down webmasters make a shit load more per sign up over per dvd sold.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Because people do not understand the math, the production costs, the actual real distribution numbers, what percentage actually pays or at least on time, who gets what cut, piracy, and so on. All in all when you break it down webmasters make a shit load more per sign up over per dvd sold.

you really think? i haven't done any math or anything, its just what i think is common sense but im sure you'd know more than me, being involved in it and all. with dvds there are no chargebacks, no free previews and they cost a helluva lot more for one dvd, 2 hours or whatever than a monthly membership where someone has access to countless hours. but then you have recurring sales which don't really happen on the video side of things, easier access than going out and actually buying a dvd, etc.

also im not talking about webmaster commissions, no one gets 50% off dvd sales. im talking about internet vs dvd industry as a whole.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you really think? i haven't done any math or anything, its just what i think is common sense but im sure you'd know more than me, being involved in it and all. with dvds there are no chargebacks, no free previews and they cost a helluva lot more for one dvd, 2 hours or whatever than a monthly membership where someone has access to countless hours. but then you have recurring sales which don't really happen on the video side of things, easier access than going out and actually buying a dvd, etc.

also im not talking about webmaster commissions, no one gets 50% off dvd sales. im talking about internet vs dvd industry as a whole.

I am talking producer vs webmaster money wise.

Few things first with dvd's there are distributors and buyers who just do not pay (count that up as chargbacks so to speak) and most do not pay until 90 day net minimum.
Free previews: You can still find video arcades inside of most adult video stores, wanna take a guess how much the producer gets from those? If your guess is more than nothing your way off.
Consumer price: New DVD 35.00 high end, quickly drops to 24.00 or 15.00 after the new wears out (60 days approx). Older stock ends up in bargin bin.

Now onto producer vs. webmaster. Producer has to pay for everything up front and wait a min of 90 days to see any return. A producer is fairly lucky to be getting 7.00 per dvd or higher sold. BTW they did have to pay for everything from making the scenes to the duplication ect so that comes out of the 7.00 or so.

It also is very common for stores or other "bad people" to pirate your dvd's. They may order 5 or 10 yet they will duplicate and sell many more than that. This does not include internet piracy either, just talking brick n mortar piracy. Often these may be sold at wholesale or below wholesale prices.

DVD's cost tens of thousands to put together and you must constantly be putting out new ones each with same costs. Typically a distributor will not touch you either until you have at least 3 in the can ready to ship. Basic equivilant of a webmaster (site owner) launching a new paysite every two weeks to a month with exclusive hardcore content instead of just updating the current one with some new scenes and that site owner can not get any sales until they have 3 full websites up and ready to go.

No recurring sales either, and nobody forgets to not buy and have their cards charged. There also is no real chance at immediate cross sales and limited upsale abilities either. No harvesting of ways to contact the buyers, and instead of storing everything on servers you need wharehouse space.

Distribution outlets. Webmasters have a world wide broadcasting station in essence where the dvd companies are limited to brick and mortar distributors. DVD companies can also get heat and lots of pressure from them if they try to sell to customers or stores directly.

Lastly there is actual legal enforcement done at the dvd level. People do get raided and busted. There are postal shipping stings ect. Only rarely happens online and as we know it is rarely enforced.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I am talking producer vs webmaster money wise.

Few things first with dvd's there are distributors and buyers who just do not pay (count that up as chargbacks so to speak) and most do not pay until 90 day net minimum.
Free previews: You can still find video arcades inside of most adult video stores, wanna take a guess how much the producer gets from those? If your guess is more than nothing your way off.
Consumer price: New DVD 35.00 high end, quickly drops to 24.00 or 15.00 after the new wears out (60 days approx). Older stock ends up in bargin bin.

Now onto producer vs. webmaster. Producer has to pay for everything up front and wait a min of 90 days to see any return. A producer is fairly lucky to be getting 7.00 per dvd or higher sold. BTW they did have to pay for everything from making the scenes to the duplication ect so that comes out of the 7.00 or so.

It also is very common for stores or other "bad people" to pirate your dvd's. They may order 5 or 10 yet they will duplicate and sell many more than that. This does not include internet piracy either, just talking brick n mortar piracy. Often these may be sold at wholesale or below wholesale prices.

DVD's cost tens of thousands to put together and you must constantly be putting out new ones each with same costs. Typically a distributor will not touch you either until you have at least 3 in the can ready to ship. Basic equivilant of a webmaster (site owner) launching a new paysite every two weeks to a month with exclusive hardcore content instead of just updating the current one with some new scenes and that site owner can not get any sales until they have 3 full websites up and ready to go.

No recurring sales either, and nobody forgets to not buy and have their cards charged. There also is no real chance at immediate cross sales and limited upsale abilities either. No harvesting of ways to contact the buyers, and instead of storing everything on servers you need wharehouse space.

Distribution outlets. Webmasters have a world wide broadcasting station in essence where the dvd companies are limited to brick and mortar distributors. DVD companies can also get heat and lots of pressure from them if they try to sell to customers or stores directly.

Lastly there is actual legal enforcement done at the dvd level. People do get raided and busted. There are postal shipping stings ect. Only rarely happens online and as we know it is rarely enforced.

great post.

as for Amelia's question...
I think digital and physical distribution (and marketing) are so vastly different, that they require seperate dialogues. The fact that both are selling porn, is less important.

That being said, with the evolution of digital distribution and on-demand viewing, the "physical" aspect of video sales is going to continue to shrink. When all porn studios start selling their work on demand via IP/internet means, they will "get" the whole web thing and the gap between DVD companies and Web companies will fade.

[Linkster]

Unfortunately, while I agree that they are melding, the video companies and even their representatives (AVN comes to mind) have no clue when it comes to the webmaster biz - or for that matter putting a website online. They think they can pay some rep a few mega-thousands (numbers Ive heard from single girl pornstar sites on their own run around 20k) and they will be successful at the internet promotion side.

Its a real shame the people claiming to represent the internet webmasters with the premier shows (again AVN) dont have a grasp on the biz whatsoever. I guess the playing field is ripe for someone to jump in and really do it properly.(I hope)

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I am talking producer vs webmaster money wise.

Few things first with dvd's there are distributors and buyers who just do not pay (count that up as chargbacks so to speak) and most do not pay until 90 day net minimum.
Free previews: You can still find video arcades inside of most adult video stores, wanna take a guess how much the producer gets from those? If your guess is more than nothing your way off.
Consumer price: New DVD 35.00 high end, quickly drops to 24.00 or 15.00 after the new wears out (60 days approx). Older stock ends up in bargin bin.

Now onto producer vs. webmaster. Producer has to pay for everything up front and wait a min of 90 days to see any return. A producer is fairly lucky to be getting 7.00 per dvd or higher sold. BTW they did have to pay for everything from making the scenes to the duplication ect so that comes out of the 7.00 or so.

It also is very common for stores or other "bad people" to pirate your dvd's. They may order 5 or 10 yet they will duplicate and sell many more than that. This does not include internet piracy either, just talking brick n mortar piracy. Often these may be sold at wholesale or below wholesale prices.

DVD's cost tens of thousands to put together and you must constantly be putting out new ones each with same costs. Typically a distributor will not touch you either until you have at least 3 in the can ready to ship. Basic equivilant of a webmaster (site owner) launching a new paysite every two weeks to a month with exclusive hardcore content instead of just updating the current one with some new scenes and that site owner can not get any sales until they have 3 full websites up and ready to go.

No recurring sales either, and nobody forgets to not buy and have their cards charged. There also is no real chance at immediate cross sales and limited upsale abilities either. No harvesting of ways to contact the buyers, and instead of storing everything on servers you need wharehouse space.

Distribution outlets. Webmasters have a world wide broadcasting station in essence where the dvd companies are limited to brick and mortar distributors. DVD companies can also get heat and lots of pressure from them if they try to sell to customers or stores directly.

Lastly there is actual legal enforcement done at the dvd level. People do get raided and busted. There are postal shipping stings ect. Only rarely happens online and as we know it is rarely enforced.

I think internet is a much more open business, at least at the moment, while the video end of things tends to be a more closed structure. There are more ways to be successful doing business in the online adult space and a more limited number in offline video.

[Elli]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Unfortunately, while I agree that they are melding, the video companies and even their representatives (AVN comes to mind) have no clue when it comes to the webmaster biz - or for that matter putting a website online. They think they can pay some rep a few mega-thousands (numbers Ive heard from single girl pornstar sites on their own run around 20k) and they will be successful at the internet promotion side.

Its a real shame the people claiming to represent the internet webmasters with the premier shows (again AVN) dont have a grasp on the biz whatsoever. I guess the playing field is ripe for someone to jump in and really do it properly.(I hope)

Good points. Hopefully they manage to learn something what with practically being forced to mingle with us.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Elli

Good points. Hopefully they manage to learn something what with practically being forced to mingle with us.

Do you think that sort of education can be forced on someone?

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I am talking producer vs webmaster money wise.

Few things first with dvd's there are distributors and buyers who just do not pay (count that up as chargbacks so to speak) and most do not pay until 90 day net minimum.
Free previews: You can still find video arcades inside of most adult video stores, wanna take a guess how much the producer gets from those? If your guess is more than nothing your way off.
Consumer price: New DVD 35.00 high end, quickly drops to 24.00 or 15.00 after the new wears out (60 days approx). Older stock ends up in bargin bin.

Now onto producer vs. webmaster. Producer has to pay for everything up front and wait a min of 90 days to see any return. A producer is fairly lucky to be getting 7.00 per dvd or higher sold. BTW they did have to pay for everything from making the scenes to the duplication ect so that comes out of the 7.00 or so.

It also is very common for stores or other "bad people" to pirate your dvd's. They may order 5 or 10 yet they will duplicate and sell many more than that. This does not include internet piracy either, just talking brick n mortar piracy. Often these may be sold at wholesale or below wholesale prices.

DVD's cost tens of thousands to put together and you must constantly be putting out new ones each with same costs. Typically a distributor will not touch you either until you have at least 3 in the can ready to ship. Basic equivilant of a webmaster (site owner) launching a new paysite every two weeks to a month with exclusive hardcore content instead of just updating the current one with some new scenes and that site owner can not get any sales until they have 3 full websites up and ready to go.

No recurring sales either, and nobody forgets to not buy and have their cards charged. There also is no real chance at immediate cross sales and limited upsale abilities either. No harvesting of ways to contact the buyers, and instead of storing everything on servers you need wharehouse space.

Distribution outlets. Webmasters have a world wide broadcasting station in essence where the dvd companies are limited to brick and mortar distributors. DVD companies can also get heat and lots of pressure from them if they try to sell to customers or stores directly.

Lastly there is actual legal enforcement done at the dvd level. People do get raided and busted. There are postal shipping stings ect. Only rarely happens online and as we know it is rarely enforced.

a lot of things i never even thought of, thanks for educating me on it. good post.

[Elli]

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Do you think that sort of education can be forced on someone?

No. But it does have the effect of exposing people to new experiences.

[inthestars]

I am hoping that the convergence is an anomaly, because I live in LA and deal with video porn people quite frequently. There is a huge difference between internet porn people and video porn people. Internet porn people got into the biz to make money and are basically computer geek/oriented type people. We are much more cerebral than the video crowd. The video crowd knows nothing about the amount of money that they can make from internet and are more focused on having 'fun'. They are a much more tight knit social crowd and the grudges/fights people have border on high school level. There's no reason to have the conventions at the same time because the video crowd wouldn't even be able to understand the curriculum offered at the adult webmaster seminars, not because they are dumb, but because they know absolutely nothing about it to begin with.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by inthestars

I am hoping that the convergence is an anomaly, because I live in LA and deal with video porn people quite frequently. There is a huge difference between internet porn people and video porn people. Internet porn people got into the biz to make money and are basically computer geek/oriented type people. We are much more cerebral than the video crowd. The video crowd knows nothing about the amount of money that they can make from internet and are more focused on having 'fun'. They are a much more tight knit social crowd and the grudges/fights people have border on high school level. There's no reason to have the conventions at the same time because the video crowd wouldn't even be able to understand the curriculum offered at the adult webmaster seminars, not because they are dumb, but because they know absolutely nothing about it to begin with.

one of the best posts of this thread