So.... Who's the best damn designer here? - GoFuckYourself.com

Shap · 11-23-2005, 03:46 PM

Let's hear it. Who do you think is the best designer here?

brand0n · 11-23-2005, 03:47 PM

alienq hands down

</sarcasm>

aico · 11-23-2005, 03:48 PM

My clients include:
Disneyland
Disney's California Adventure
Univeral Studios
Eminem

I think I do alright.

GFX Wiz · 11-23-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shap

Let's hear it. Who do you think is the best designer here?

Why you asking?

tranza · 11-23-2005, 03:49 PM

Go with Bruno Dickman and his crew if you are looking for the best possible.

He's quite expensive though...

abyss_al · 11-23-2005, 03:50 PM

best converting/design: ialien

2HousePlague · 11-23-2005, 03:50 PM

2hp

2HousePlague · 11-23-2005, 03:54 PM

IT BEARS REPEATING:

2hp

tranza · 11-23-2005, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

My clients include:
Disneyland
Disney's California Adventure
Univeral Studios
Eminem

I think I do alright.

So you don't have any adult sites on your portfolio?

And what did you do for Eminem?

RRRED · 11-23-2005, 03:56 PM

I have someone in mind... I'll show him this thread

;)

justsexxx · 11-23-2005, 03:57 PM

I would say go with dickmansdesign....

Sosa · 11-23-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justsexxx

I would say go with dickmansdesign....

Cannot go wrong with them!

Rinaldo · 11-23-2005, 04:01 PM

I've liked ALien's work for a long time.

I'm not into design though. His work makes me want to pull out my credit card and get to touching myself.

Basic_man · 11-23-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

My clients include:
Disneyland
Disney's California Adventure
Univeral Studios
Eminem

I think I do alright.

Why are you lying here on this board then ? :D

Alex From San Diego · 11-23-2005, 04:05 PM

If you are referring to adult designers, flip a coin basically. The best designer is now retired from adult. Hands down, no one even can compete with Amp. It wasn't just his designs but his organizational skills and the little things he did that no one ever sees except for the people working with his designs.

I have used many designers in the past to include gallery template designers and they just don't get it.

Good luck to you though Shap in seeking that designer

Pornwolf · 11-23-2005, 04:09 PM

Envision Text is really hot.

&

www.Dickmandesigns.com

You can't go wrong with either one.

tranza · 11-23-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

If you are referring to adult designers, flip a coin basically. The best designer is now retired from adult. Hands down, no one even can compete with Amp. It wasn't just his designs but his organizational skills and the little things he did that no one ever sees except for the people working with his designs.

I have used many designers in the past to include gallery template designers and they just don't get it.

Good luck to you though Shap in seeking that designer

The few Amp designs I tested didn't work that well... Overrated on my opinion...

Alex From San Diego · 11-23-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

The few Amp designs I tested didn't work that well... Overrated on my opinion...

I couldn't please everyone and sorry it didn't work out for you to well.

Pleny of factors go into generating sales other than just the tour design. I can convert on shit tours as well as good looking tours. It is all in your approach. Good luck Tranza, I enjoyed having you as an affiliate

justsexxx · 11-23-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Envision Text is really hot.

&

www.Dickmandesigns.com

You can't go wrong with either one.

www.dickmansdesign.com

alan-l · 11-23-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shap

Let's hear it. Who do you think is the best designer here?

as several said, dickmansdesign.com and envisionnext.com. Let me add wyldesites.com and webinc.com to the mix. And of course, fdsign.com who are the best when it comes to conversions, but I've the feeling they're way too busy to get new projects, at least for a couple months

Dwreck · 11-23-2005, 04:25 PM

These Homo's do aight! DICKMANS!!

I really do love thier work and thier work ethics!

Pornwolf · 11-23-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Envision Text is really hot.

&

www.Dickmandesign.com

You can't go wrong with either one.

I shall both quote myself, and correct myself. Thanks Justsexxx!

seeric · 11-23-2005, 04:30 PM

shap hit up me or john and we will take care of ya if you don't find what you are looking for here.

alan-l · 11-23-2005, 04:31 PM

btw, fwiw I really think you should try fdsign.com once they've some room, which hopefully won't happen in a long time. We moved from Twistys to one of their ARS porn stars byot sites and they convert way, way, way better than Twistys, which is weird if we keep in mind you've the best content available. I never understood how they can sell overseen content with 700/800% better conversions than Twistys, really think you need these guys or at least somebody who knows what to do with your incredible content, right now it's a shame, even Vivid converts better, which is a lot to say

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 11-23-2005, 04:33 PM

Since my name was dropped a little and maybe Shap does not know.

I detail my sites on my own and am very selective about content that is integrated into a tour. It has resulted in some very fine converting tours.

Shap, I may not be the best designer (Yes, the way I post might make ya think I am egotisitical and what I do can do no wrong ) but I can tell ya the designs I do really work.

With Dean Capture's content I know I can make something fucken amazing and would love the opportunity.

Here are some sites I have done recently:

LegAction

Just18

Karups

Here some MOBILE Stuff as well:
PEEK PEEK

This year I have done over 80 maybe 100 websites for various folks and always looking to up my client list with companies that achieve and desire the next level with a passion.

I would love to have Twisty's as a client.

We are also producing content. Good content.
Stuff I think you might be interested in.

Get ahold of me sometime I am available nearly 24-7 cept the times I am either eating sleeping or with a camara.

Alien:
[email protected]
ICQ: 78943384
CELL: 818-307-0536

jimb · 11-23-2005, 04:36 PM

check out www.idsadult.com

Jim

fallenmuffin · 11-23-2005, 04:42 PM

I like AdultRMX's work.. his site is, umm, www.adultrmx.com.
I also like galleryseek's work.. don't know his site

Note: I've never done any work with them but I dig their work.

romeoboi · 11-23-2005, 04:45 PM

the wylde sites guy is pretty nice - I emailed him, just asking a few questions and he was really helpful & friendly

I also have had some work done by xxeneizexx who runs sexxxydesign.com - hes very good and a real up and commer.

aico · 11-23-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

So you don't have any adult sites on your portfolio?

And what did you do for Eminem?

No, I don't do adult design except for myself, I don't really put that much effort into it, and prefer mainstream design work. For Eminem I designed the DVD packaging, VHS packaging, electronic billboard artwork (for the Sunset Blvd Electronic Sign), bus stop posters, stickers, magazine ads for The Slim Shady Show

harvey · 11-23-2005, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan-l

btw, fwiw I really think you should try fdsign.com once they've some room, which hopefully won't happen in a long time. We moved from Twistys to one of their ARS porn stars byot sites and they convert way, way, way better than Twistys, which is weird if we keep in mind you've the best content available. I never understood how they can sell overseen content with 700/800% better conversions than Twistys, really think you need these guys or at least somebody who knows what to do with your incredible content, right now it's a shame, even Vivid converts better, which is a lot to say

thanx Laur, I'm flattered and very happy about being busy for some time. And maybe you'll get a surprise and it will be less than you think

however, I gotta say I already made a design for Twistys but Shap didn't get back to me so guess he didn't like it, and of course I won't insist, is all cool

btw, since I'm not very "boardy" nowadays, I'll use this post to say Alien has a really nice content, much better than a lot of experimented photog, as a designer who also shot content, kudos to him.

Back to my tomb

Poppy · 11-23-2005, 10:05 PM

Dickman's

Linkster · 11-23-2005, 10:07 PM

I would have to go with AJ at http://templateempire.com/ - probably closest to your niche - as well as one of the best designers Ive ever had the pleasure of working with

bashbug · 11-23-2005, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

My clients include:
Disneyland
Disney's California Adventure
Univeral Studios
Eminem

I think I do alright.

really

my friend works at universal in hollywood. she does all the websites for the movies. as well as maintains their website. its all in house.

alan-l · 11-23-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bashbug

really

my friend works at universal in hollywood. she does all the websites for the movies. as well as maintains their website. its all in house.

the designs for their own adult sites aren't exactly what I'd call a blast

alan-l · 11-23-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvey

thanx Laur, I'm flattered and very happy about being busy for some time. And maybe you'll get a surprise and it will be less than you think

however, I gotta say I already made a design for Twistys but Shap didn't get back to me so guess he didn't like it, and of course I won't insist, is all cool

btw, since I'm not very "boardy" nowadays, I'll use this post to say Alien has a really nice content, much better than a lot of experimented photog, as a designer who also shot content, kudos to him.

Back to my tomb

<nice> you deserve it buddy! </nice>

<uncle_tom>NOW GET BACK TO WORK! </uncle_tom>

Theo · 11-23-2005, 11:37 PM

dickmansdesign too, but im biased hehe

anyhow regardless what's said that adult industry has many great designers it's far from true, there are only a couple of great ones, the rest are from average to bad

reed_4 · 11-24-2005, 01:06 AM

There are lots of great designers here and AlienQ is one of them.

aico · 11-24-2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bashbug

really

my friend works at universal in hollywood. she does all the websites for the movies. as well as maintains their website. its all in house.

That's great, my friend works there too, his name is Chuck Spina. But I didn't design the posters and websites, I designed the Signage for the Imax Theatre including the Kiosk inside, the Huge 100' Radial sign, and the triangular signs that are along the wall as you go up the stairs inside, also the BB King Restaurant Sign, plus others.

CybermedAndy · 11-24-2005, 02:56 AM

VERBAL! www.bedroomgraphics.com

JamesK2 · 11-24-2005, 03:02 AM

As a designer I must say Envisionext and Dickmansdesign does great work.

Serge Litehead · 11-24-2005, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aico

That's great, my friend works there too, his name is Chuck Spina. But I didn't design the posters and websites, I designed the Signage for the Imax Theatre including the Kiosk inside, the Huge 100' Radial sign, and the triangular signs that are along the wall as you go up the stairs inside, also the BB King Restaurant Sign, plus others.

got a mainstream portfolio by any chance online? I would love to have a look at it.

MaDalton · 11-24-2005, 04:42 AM

my vote goes for iAlien

BlueDesignStudios · 11-24-2005, 04:52 AM

I might be biased but I think we do some pretty nice work

bigdog · 11-24-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan-l

btw, fwiw I really think you should try fdsign.com once they've some room, which hopefully won't happen in a long time. We moved from Twistys to one of their ARS porn stars byot sites and they convert way, way, way better than Twistys, which is weird if we keep in mind you've the best content available. I never understood how they can sell overseen content with 700/800% better conversions than Twistys, really think you need these guys or at least somebody who knows what to do with your incredible content, right now it's a shame, even Vivid converts better, which is a lot to say

If you are promoting ars with trials it's hard to compare when twistys has full monthly memberships

Mefo · 11-24-2005, 05:17 AM

dickmans/envisionnext/wylde/webinc

that's the list

aico · 11-24-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

got a mainstream portfolio by any chance online? I would love to have a look at it.

Actually I don't, I was on a 5 year non-compete contract, which ended actually in August, and I haven't really got around to putting it up again. I have a few good long term clients that keep me happy, plus the $$$ I make in adult, so really haven't had a need to find more work.

Were you looking for a designer? Or just curious of my work?

Bruno · 11-25-2005, 11:35 AM

We love everyone that has mentioned us!

Shap, we´d love to work with you! I have received your email and replied to it. Lets stay in touch!

Once again, thanks everyone for the kind words!

Since someone mentioned some mainstream clients... I want to mention we do mainstream design too, through another brand we have. We have already worked with some of the biggest beer brands in Brazil, with the Coca Cola group, with the biggest cell phone company in Brazil (vivo), FOX (launch of jack bauers second season in Brazil), Nat Geo BR, and others. We have also worked with pretty much all of the huge brands in Adult. Penthouse, Playboy, Hustler, Vivid, RedLight and others. Why do I want to mention this? Because these companies are looking for maximum performance for their sites. And this is our CLEAR MISSION. To boost the online performance of our clients. Period. We will ALWAYS bend over backwards to reach this goal.

Take care and kind regards,

Bruno Dickman

PS: Derek... KILLER PIC MAN! :D

elitetec · 11-25-2005, 12:32 PM

Dynamixx

justsexxx · 11-25-2005, 01:07 PM

ANyone has samples of the work of fdsign. I am just curious, since many ppl mention them...

venus · 11-25-2005, 01:15 PM

I have been looking at designers for awhile, 98% of them all have similar designs. I have only had one designer that did really great work but I have not been able to get ahold of him in a long time. He is the one who did my site www.landofvenus.com, its the only design that I have had that really converts well, thats why I have not changed my design in so long.

But I am always looking for someone with not only skill, but an imagination, not the same colors and look that everyone else seems to have.
I also love this design but its so outdated I cant use it
http://204.15.248.161/
I have the photoshop file of the main graphic but I suck at making anything

11-23-2005, 03:46 PM	#1
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	So.... Who's the best damn designer here? Let's hear it. Who do you think is the best designer here?

11-23-2005, 03:47 PM	#2
brand0n been very busy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: the queen city Posts: 26,983	alienq hands down </sarcasm> __________________ want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.

11-23-2005, 03:49 PM	#5
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	Go with Bruno Dickman and his crew if you are looking for the best possible. He's quite expensive though... __________________ I'm just a newbie.

11-23-2005, 03:50 PM	#6
abyss_al LOOKING FOR TRADES Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 15,605	best converting/design: ialien __________________ EMAIL: allen @ vasmediagroup.com \| ICQ: 311329761 \| SKYPE: abyss.al \| AIM: xABYSSxALx

11-23-2005, 03:50 PM	#7
2HousePlague CURATOR Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the attic Posts: 14,572	2hp __________________ tada!

11-23-2005, 03:48 PM	#3
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	My clients include: Disneyland Disney's California Adventure Univeral Studios Eminem I think I do alright.

11-23-2005, 03:54 PM	#8
2HousePlague CURATOR Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the attic Posts: 14,572	IT BEARS REPEATING: 2hp __________________ tada!

11-23-2005, 03:56 PM	#10
RRRED Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WA Posts: 6,754	I have someone in mind... I'll show him this thread ;)

11-23-2005, 03:57 PM	#11
justsexxx Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 13,723	I would say go with dickmansdesign.... __________________ Questions? ICQ: 125184542

11-23-2005, 04:01 PM	#13
Rinaldo Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 5,086	I've liked ALien's work for a long time. I'm not into design though. His work makes me want to pull out my credit card and get to touching myself.

11-23-2005, 04:05 PM	#15
Alex From San Diego Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,642	If you are referring to adult designers, flip a coin basically. The best designer is now retired from adult. Hands down, no one even can compete with Amp. It wasn't just his designs but his organizational skills and the little things he did that no one ever sees except for the people working with his designs. I have used many designers in the past to include gallery template designers and they just don't get it. Good luck to you though Shap in seeking that designer __________________ We are what we repeatedly do.-Aristotle

11-23-2005, 04:09 PM	#16
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Envision Text is really hot. & www.Dickmandesigns.com You can't go wrong with either one. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

11-23-2005, 04:25 PM	#21
Dwreck Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,362	These Homo's do aight! DICKMANS!! I really do love thier work and thier work ethics! __________________ Derek Dwreck Smout Program Manager Icq 165976549 Skype derekthomassmout

11-23-2005, 04:30 PM	#23
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	shap hit up me or john and we will take care of ya if you don't find what you are looking for here.

11-23-2005, 04:31 PM	#24
alan-l Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: look behind you Posts: 2,477	btw, fwiw I really think you should try fdsign.com once they've some room, which hopefully won't happen in a long time. We moved from Twistys to one of their ARS porn stars byot sites and they convert way, way, way better than Twistys, which is weird if we keep in mind you've the best content available. I never understood how they can sell overseen content with 700/800% better conversions than Twistys, really think you need these guys or at least somebody who knows what to do with your incredible content, right now it's a shame, even Vivid converts better, which is a lot to say

11-23-2005, 04:33 PM	#25
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Since my name was dropped a little and maybe Shap does not know. I detail my sites on my own and am very selective about content that is integrated into a tour. It has resulted in some very fine converting tours. Shap, I may not be the best designer (Yes, the way I post might make ya think I am egotisitical and what I do can do no wrong ) but I can tell ya the designs I do really work. With Dean Capture's content I know I can make something fucken amazing and would love the opportunity. Here are some sites I have done recently: LegAction Just18 Karups Here some MOBILE Stuff as well: PEEK PEEK This year I have done over 80 maybe 100 websites for various folks and always looking to up my client list with companies that achieve and desire the next level with a passion. I would love to have Twisty's as a client. We are also producing content. Good content. Stuff I think you might be interested in. Get ahold of me sometime I am available nearly 24-7 cept the times I am either eating sleeping or with a camara. Alien: [email protected] ICQ: 78943384 CELL: 818-307-0536 __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

11-23-2005, 04:36 PM	#26
jimb Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 2,514	check out www.idsadult.com Jim

11-23-2005, 04:42 PM	#27
fallenmuffin Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,170	I like AdultRMX's work.. his site is, umm, www.adultrmx.com. I also like galleryseek's work.. don't know his site Note: I've never done any work with them but I dig their work.

11-23-2005, 04:45 PM	#28
romeoboi Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 343	the wylde sites guy is pretty nice - I emailed him, just asking a few questions and he was really helpful & friendly I also have had some work done by xxeneizexx who runs sexxxydesign.com - hes very good and a real up and commer. __________________ Cash in on Exclusive ZERO TOLERANCE DVD Downloads!

11-23-2005, 10:05 PM	#31
Poppy Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: O H I O Posts: 6,254	Dickman's __________________ VP Sales, Peak5Payments [email protected] Skype: consultpoppy In adult since 98'

11-23-2005, 10:07 PM	#32
Linkster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: DeltaHell Posts: 3,216	I would have to go with AJ at http://templateempire.com/ - probably closest to your niche - as well as one of the best designers Ive ever had the pleasure of working with __________________ Porn Links Crak for your bank account - Get Addicted FREE LIVE CAM SHOWS

11-23-2005, 11:37 PM	#36
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	dickmansdesign too, but im biased hehe anyhow regardless what's said that adult industry has many great designers it's far from true, there are only a couple of great ones, the rest are from average to bad

11-24-2005, 01:06 AM	#37
reed_4 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 9,640	There are lots of great designers here and AlienQ is one of them. __________________

11-24-2005, 02:56 AM	#39
CybermedAndy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 4,170	VERBAL! www.bedroomgraphics.com __________________ Add some upsell items to your pages here!

11-24-2005, 03:02 AM	#40
JamesK2 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 6,589	As a designer I must say Envisionext and Dickmansdesign does great work. __________________

11-24-2005, 04:42 AM	#42
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,829	my vote goes for iAlien __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

11-24-2005, 04:52 AM	#43
BlueDesignStudios Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 9,492	I might be biased but I think we do some pretty nice work __________________ Blue Design Studios - Adult Design Specialists! Email me for a free quote: [email protected]

11-24-2005, 05:17 AM	#45
Mefo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 6,169	dickmans/envisionnext/wylde/webinc that's the list __________________

11-25-2005, 11:35 AM	#47
Bruno Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: São Paulo - SP - Brazil Posts: 1,241	We love everyone that has mentioned us! Shap, we´d love to work with you! I have received your email and replied to it. Lets stay in touch! Once again, thanks everyone for the kind words! Since someone mentioned some mainstream clients... I want to mention we do mainstream design too, through another brand we have. We have already worked with some of the biggest beer brands in Brazil, with the Coca Cola group, with the biggest cell phone company in Brazil (vivo), FOX (launch of jack bauers second season in Brazil), Nat Geo BR, and others. We have also worked with pretty much all of the huge brands in Adult. Penthouse, Playboy, Hustler, Vivid, RedLight and others. Why do I want to mention this? Because these companies are looking for maximum performance for their sites. And this is our CLEAR MISSION. To boost the online performance of our clients. Period. We will ALWAYS bend over backwards to reach this goal. Take care and kind regards, Bruno Dickman PS: Derek... KILLER PIC MAN! :D __________________ work hard. play hard. http://www.dickmansdesign.com MSN brunodickman at hotmail.com iCQ # 107450119 See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!

11-25-2005, 12:32 PM	#48
elitetec Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York Posts: 4,944	Dynamixx __________________ Add Your Site To My PR4 Blog Selling Sig ICQ-200636146

11-25-2005, 01:07 PM	#49
justsexxx Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 13,723	ANyone has samples of the work of fdsign. I am just curious, since many ppl mention them... __________________ Questions? ICQ: 125184542

11-25-2005, 01:15 PM	#50
venus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix, Az Posts: 3,112	I have been looking at designers for awhile, 98% of them all have similar designs. I have only had one designer that did really great work but I have not been able to get ahold of him in a long time. He is the one who did my site www.landofvenus.com, its the only design that I have had that really converts well, thats why I have not changed my design in so long. But I am always looking for someone with not only skill, but an imagination, not the same colors and look that everyone else seems to have. I also love this design but its so outdated I cant use it http://204.15.248.161/ I have the photoshop file of the main graphic but I suck at making anything __________________ Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program Since 1997 www.venuscash.com