I think the current US government has studied this book very closely.

Europe's opposition to the US in this matter will drive the US to further diplomatic isolation.

I fear what I see as an inevitable showdown of the world against the US.

With the roasting that Blair os getting, you can be sure that future leaders of Great Britain keep the US at a safe distance.

They avoid it all the time. But some don't:

So the one with the shorter straw or that looks more brownish will win a " all torture inclusive stay " in a secret US foreign prison.

I just love this DEMOCRACY !

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out?
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?
and there was no one left to speak out.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

Torture is always wrong.
Plus it sets the wrong set of standards for everyone else.
Had a grandfather who was tortured in WWII. Personally I would never want to give a justifiable reason for our future enemies to torture our soldiers. So it is key that America take the moral high ground, even if it could possibly mean lack of intellegence or security.

someone should torture the old bastard, see how he likes it :2 cents:

well of course terrorists would love to kill bush... for obvious reasons...
ok, i won't go into arguing about the accurate definition of a terrorist... yeah, i missed a few cases in the approximate definition that i gave.
but i think my idea that i wanted to pass in this thread was clear

One of those quotes that everyone should reread regularly.

Thank you!

:thumbsup

A powerful argument well expressed!

Thank you.

A country which thinks it can stuff people (irrespective who they are!) into some backwater with the object of enabling torture - namely watching others do the actual "torture by proxy" - are little better than the torturers.

This is not a new ploy by the US, - the same thing happened in Latin America, Kosovo blah.

The US remains the only western country unable to comply with Human Rights Treaties - even for it's own citizens.

Other nations are well-aware of the US double standards on many things - it's not too palatable.

There is a serious problem someplace, - even forgetting the ramblings of a perverse old ass in the Pentgon.

50...........

Bush is Hitler reborn.

As ex-military, I think torture is wrong and people who commit and enable such actions should be tried as war criminals. Historically, among the military, there was always honor among brothers-in-arms. When the fighting stopped, the prisoners are to be treated with respect, dignity, and have their basic needs cared for. I would vote to bring charges against any torturer or those who give the orders for the torture to occur. I'm with Senator McCain on this one.

Torture is the antithesis of everything the USA supposedly stands for.

Thanks for your barbaric opinion Saddam, but this is the United States.

Dunno if Bush even qualifies for that status! :1orglaugh


Just a thought... It was Hitler that forecast the US would be the country to adopt the mantle of the "Fourth Reich" in a new rebirth. :winkwink:

Iif a democratic country believed YOU had information of a terrorist attack, would you understand and accept being tortured for the good of democracy?

Perfect example of Why this is wrong ( today ):


Nice going, DICK .....

After all, " they " hate your freedoms, what you stand for ....

Think about what Bin Ladan set out to achieve by 9/11.

Now decide if he has got it.

I think he wanted to make America even more hated by Muslims. Wanted to get noticed. Wanted to increase terrorism. Do you think he got those things?

I don't think any means of saving innocent lives should be *completely* ruled out.

Exactly the US is torturing suspects and people they believe have information. In the end they will say whatever to stop the torture.

hahaha good ol america going backwards rather than forward...

watch out! there are evil doers eveywhere!

There's no terrorism without reason
Once Bush/Cheney understand that there'll be no terrorism left

Don't hold your breath.

Cheney is the devil incarnate, who believes that he is justified in exploiting his position.

Bush hears voices in his head, and thinks it is a deity.

Three more years. Plenty of time for everyone on the planet to hate the americans. Including the Brits.

Where's that surfer ronbotx? :1orglaugh

no, this is a stupid example and doesn't qualify for the specific sircumstances i meant.

For the fact this is even a debate tells me how fucked up the world is.
There isn't a damn thing worth saving the human race for.

What about pussies and bums?????

:banana :banana :banana

Seems I missed something ...

Last thing was that Iraqis were getting liberated ...

Now, it seems that they are getting abused...

Hard to understand, since the " bad guy" is already in jail ..

Seems abuse is to stay with those guys ...

Iraq Launches Probe into Alleged Prisoner Abuse