Shared blacklist

I think that's a good idea!

Now what kind of verification process will you use to prove if a sponsor or webmaster cheated?

That's a damn good idea!

I'm not sure about that yet.
I was thinking something about how long time they have been in the biz. but that won't work out either...
because someone can always say that gay fucked me for $?K or whatever and then who should be trusted.
So actually not sure.
But mayby something like all "members" should follow a certain set of rules regarding different kind of legal issues etc. so there could be no doubt about that. And also something about gaining trust points based on how many years you have been in the business.
Any takers? basicly this is the reason I did not start it 5 months ago

Thanks... Actually I have been playing around with that idea for the past 5 months when I registered sharedblacklist.com
But I don't wanna start such a site without knowing how people should be pleaded guilty or not since this could destroy someones business if they are wrongly accused

hey due, that's a good argument. perhaps some could tell anyone wrong things about any other guy...

Greenguy and RichardsRealm have a blacklisted script that does just that.. THey sell the script too.... they live iwth the concept

If they screw ya once, they will screw you again


and you get added onto their blacklist

Yes but that is only for Gallery submitters. Not all the others

Are you going to personally accept FULL financial responsibility for the millions of dollars you will be sued for, when sponsors go after you for a multitude of different suits??.......

I would think about doing something like this VERY VERY carefully......This idea has really nothing to gain but everything to lose??

Just my 2 cents worth.

Sponsors is not really a convern.
That is easy to get straightend out.
Give them them 3 days to explain their actions in a reccomended letter.
Then you following the laws.
If any sponsor fails to responce within that timelit then I would be happy to accept such a lawsuit
My question was not if I was affraid for a lawsuiot or not though (because I'm not :p )
But instead the best way to protect every party involved wich means both webmasters and sponsors

That's not a good plan.. there's plenty of honest sponsors that will take forever to reply to you..

Have you ever tried contacting makingbank.com..
they are reliable & honest, but they'll take a month to reply to your email.. lol

Same goes for alot of great sponsors..

Also if I wanted I could also write "Based on one or more webmasters we have been informorded this sponsor does not pay" there is a lot of loopholes.
For only $340 / hour you can get them all
But this was not really the plan (IE. read first post)

Might be a challenge to do

Usually the bad sponsors and cheating webmasters scam and bitch the longest and loudest until they are caught

wasn't there a webmaster board for this a year or so ago, and what happened to it?

I don't think there was ever a dedicated board.
On AWI there was a board where confirmed cheaters got listed. It is no longer there though
But that bopard saved me for sevel 100K visitors when the CJ2 movement first started there was a lot of other people that lost bigtime bag then also (some guy that ran fuckready.com )

A shared blacklist would have to have a lot built into it such as levels of blacklist

On Email
warning (someone said they cheated)
caution (3 webmasters said they cheated)
hazard (6 or more webmaster said they cheated)

On Site host
warning 1 (host cheating 1 report)
Caution1 (host cheating 3 reports)
hazard 1 (host cheating 9 reports)

warning2 (freehost popup 1 report )
Caution2 (freehost popup 3 reports
hazard 2 (freehost popups 9 reports)

warning3 (freehost doing 404 1 report )
Caution3 (freehost doing 404 3reports
hazard 3 (freehost doing 404 9 reports)

Then you might want a webmaster rating
like trusted
not kown

this way if someone know a webmaster who blacklist a site they it is auto blacklisted for them also
would need to set it up so the webmaster can chose to auto blacklist on a warning, caution or a hazard

Next you would have to have a way to share the infomation which could be One central server sending out the information to each webmasters server which mean that who ever runs will have to have LWP:simple or LWP:UserAgent installed on their system (assuming this was done in perl) or the webmaster could request the information on a post submission which would mean they would neew LWP:Simple or LWP:UserAgent installed on their computer. Now to incorperate this into a tgp, toplist or a cj script you would almost have to write a completly new script or get permission from the writers of dozens of script out there already to modify their code. (would be eaiser to just write new ones).

Oh yeah dont for get IP address and make sure you do it by addr not host else you could end up banning a million or more ips at one time but I am sure you have though about that.

Now you have to consider who is going to foot the bill to run the server end and how are you going to recover the charge.

Now for the bad news There is already a site set up for doing this and it used black list from sites like Richards Realm and Green Guys

Brian

Just a password site list would be easy enough to do.
Maybe running something a little simpler like that would
shed some light on how to run a more difficult list.

I don't like the idea, per se.

1. Who is to say such-and-such a sponsor should be blacklisted? For example, AP is a good solid program in my book which I have never had any problems with in 3 years. Along comes Joe Eastern-bloc webmaster who breaks their rules on their click-thru program, either knowingly or unknowingly and says that AP isn't paying him, they cheat, blah, blah, blah. You basically put the burden of proof on AP to prove that he cheated or AP's program will be blacklisted.

It is like the Bobby Knight syndrome. One man's reputation built over years destroyed by some dillweed.

2. As for tgp submitters being blacklisted. The problem with that is there are no set of rules that are adhered to by all tgps. If the sites sharing the blacklist share the EXACT same rules and submission criteria. It is bullshit to be blacklisted at one tgp because you didn't follow that particular tgp's rules to the "t". I mean shit man, take a look at the description field on the submission form. Some say one word description only or you will be blacklisted, some say capitalize the first letter of each word or you will be blacklisted, etc. Granted those are their rules and they weren't followed but I don't think it is necessary to blacklist someone for that. Especially by Mr.-Iwant-Tostart-Atgp-but-don't-know-how-to-run-one-and-get-800-hits-a-day-but-I-am-more-concerned-about-blacklisting-than-getting-traffic.

There has to be some standard that has to be followed for any blacklist.

It is one thing if Greenguy or The Hun say this guy is a cheat or this sponsor cheats and it is another thing if I say this sponsor doesn't pay or this guy is a cheat. No one knows my standards, everyone knows Greenguy's or The Hun.

im drunk you guys are makin me dizzy

This is a necessary and serious project Due...
Expect for alot of work and real battles

hmm...well, there better be a way to appeal. Take for example the Richard script. When he first introduced that I nearly had a heartattack because one of my domains showed up on the list. Now, I don't cheat. That is something everyone who has ever delt with me knows. So, I went to richard and begged him to look into why I was on the list. He did and found there was no reason for me being on the list, it must have been a mistake and he took me off the list.

Now, what if this was your list? What would happen? In thise scenario I am an honest webmaster and something happened to get me on the wrong list.

Also, what legal backing do you have incase someone decides to take legal action if you list them. Not sure what grounding there is but heck people go to court over spilling coffee. So, they might do it for having their buisness publicly bad mouthed.


Not against it, just think these are things that need to be considered.

I dont like the idea.
Sponsors cheat, havent you heard that?
The question is, how MUCH do they cheat ;))

The only thing this would be good IMO is if some sponsors dont pay at all..

No I changed my mind, I like the idea. Just a lot more pissing matches and lawsuits to watch.

that's generally a good idea but i don't think it'll ever work... lots of good folks might get blacklisted because a moron with 5 buddies (to back him up with posts) can declare them "bad"...

after all, who'll have the final decision? how much proof would he need? what will be accepted as proof?

good luck tho

ah, one more thing - please don't use the time spent in the industry as any indication. i've been here for 2,5 years but no one knows me 'cause i work all alone... does this make me more or less credible?

i agree

I went thru some of my old bookmarks, there are a few TGP cheaters lists that have been around for awhile,

http://www.tgpblacklist.com/

Also two other TGP Blacklists;

http://www.tgpcheaters.com/

Demonwolfe's;

http://www.tgpowners.com/


As far as trades AWI was good, but I saw too many times where someones domain name was listed and they were later found innocent, but the thread still screamed; blah blah blah is a cheater!

I think things like these can be a good thing, but can be extremely damaging to ones business if someone just happens to have a grudge, or wants to eliminate there competition.

Also lots of legal issues come into concern...

my

I totally agree that there should be some standards for the list.
Just trying to figure out how it should be.
And offcourse some kind of proof would be needed also for when people should be listet it should not be a place where people could just register and submit right away.
Looking for some input so it can be trustworthy.

that's the keypoint... in internet, nothing is really a valid proof... icq logs? mails? server logs? anyone with a simple udnerstanding of notepad can create wonderful logs just as he needs them for any purpose

the only way to create a really un-biased blacklist is to have a special "ban committee" review each and every suggestion... also, the challenged webmaster should be given an "appeal" chance...

Due, this is not a good idea at all. The concept behind it may be ok, but this is really a bad thing.

Why dont you spend the time your wasting on this (which will lead to nothing but Serious Legal problems), and go do something productive, that won't start all kinds of shit??

Just My 2 cents

Honestly, I must say this idea is a bit naive. What would it lead to if individual persons start establishing their own "court houses"? Where does the authority come from?

Secondly, off course competitors would like to have each other in the cheaters list -> There would be several blacklists sooner or later and they all lose their meaning and we're back to zero.

I'm not looking for authority. It should be a place people could look through when deciding what sponsors to use and wich traffic trades to setup.
That is again why there should be some kind of evidence involved so that Mr John Doe can't just say he did not get paid by amateur-pages or whatever and then they will be listet.

Ok Due.

Another problem
If we assume there was a succesful and respected blacklist.. what would happen?

More cheaters would simply start cheating anonymously. Many already doing so.. a blacklist would be just an incentive for the cheaters now using their own name to become anonymous

No problem being anonymous in the Net