Kick Out The Illegals...Homeland Security Chief Says

[Greg B]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/1....u9fj2ynj.html

Okay, this is a BOLD statement from Chertoff. He says they can get efficient at it in a year but how? If he starts to enforce this shit watch the sparks fly.

[crockett]

They saw that video on the interweb of the curly headed guy picking up illegals and dropping them off at the INS office.

They are now planing on hiring 50 guys with curly hair to go out looking for illegals.

[wdsguy]

Originally Posted by crockett

They saw that video on the interweb of the curly headed guy picking up illegals and dropping them off at the INS office.

They are now planing on hiring 50 guys with curly hair to go out looking for illegals.

sweeeeet

[psili]

The price of produce would sky rocket.
Labor costs to dry wall a room would suck.
Good burritos would be hard to find.
etc.
etc.
etc.

[Rinaldo]

Wow... bold statement indeed !

[SetTheWorldonFire]

Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

Taking away mexicans is like shutting down the power company.

To depended on the mexcian resource. It's too late, mexicans are here to stay. Expecially in California. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fransico etc. People have a hard time facing it.

[pornguy]

That guy is an idiot. And the article only mentions the Cubans that cna not be touched. It did not mention the people from other countries that have TPS. temporary protection status. That means that they can NOT be deported.

And I can not wait until that IDIOT is paying 15$ for a pint of strawberries.

Deporting all of them is not the answer.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by SetTheWorldonFire

Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

Taking away mexicans is like shutting down the power company.

To depended on the mexcian resource. It's too late, mexicans are here to stay. Expecially in California. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fransico etc. People have a hard time facing it.

He ain't just talkin' bout Mexicans bro'. He's talkin' everybody. This will cause a nightmare as smugglers, forgers, slave traders will get desperate. Shortage of cheap hookers will send prices sky high. Travel overseas will increase. Body movers will charge their victims 10x as much to smuggle them into the country.

I don't think produce prices will go up. The money we spend processing illegals and educating them and paying for their health and police etc. will flood back into the mainstream lowering costs.

It's a tricky situation which we should be humane about. That's the bottom line, being humane.

Now, if those illegals and other countries dependent on the U.S. really wanted citizenship they would watch a movie called "The Mouse That Roared".

Any old timers and Peter Sellers fans know what I'm talking about.

[TheGoldenChild]

They need to get people jobs in New Orleans-
However ,I was watching a special about how many apts are available in NO but can't be leased because the government has protected all the renters property - even though thousands of people have left NO and not called or come back to survey their damage, these poor landlords can't rent out their properties to people who want to work.

It's a real mess down there -
Not too mention our border security is a joke.
These Minutemen have definitely raised America's consciousness to the problem with the border.

The government is allowing white men to hunt illegals for all intents and purposes- while they say they condemn it, I bet they love the fact that they have vigilantes helping to guard us from unwanted terrorists who can cross the border.

[EroticySteve]

Curly haired guy?

Illegals?

[pornguy]

" I bet they love the fact that they have vigilantes helping to guard us from unwanted terrorists who can cross the border. "

Sorry to say, but the unwanted terrorists came into the US with a Visa. They wont come in illegal. Too risky!

[SetTheWorldonFire]

It won't happen

Take a visit to the San Joaquin Valley

Go to the borders of Mexico. Ask for stories about border crossers. They've had worse than minutemen and they still cross. You would'nt believe the stories. It's unstoppable.

As for all other illegal immigrants, that just adds to the immpossible.

[SetTheWorldonFire]

Not to mention I'd be one pissed chicano if they sent my parents back to Mexico, Cuba, etc.

[pornmonger]

Actually prices would not go up for anything. If all the illegal Mexicans were forced out of the country, it would leave all the low paying jobs for the unemployed black people in America.

Recently, Vincent Fox, president of Mexico, stated that Mexicans do what Black Americans won't for jobs. Funny thing was Al Sharpton agreed. Black American's egos are too big for them to work low paying wages. Do you ever see a black person standing in front of Home Depot looking for daily work? No, they rather rob and steal than work for a day.

[xclusive]

start with all the illegal gang members

[tony286]

Who is going to pick the lettuce? work in the restaurants? the poultry plants? They never think this shit thru.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Greg B

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/1....u9fj2ynj.html

Okay, this is a BOLD statement from Chertoff. He says they can get efficient at it in a year but how? If he starts to enforce this shit watch the sparks fly.

This would have a dramatic effect on certain key sectors of the economy. I wonder how it will play out.

[Sosa]

Not too many mexicans here. Only at the beef packing plants in the state is there a bigger hispanic population.

[iBanker]

Originally Posted by psili

The price of produce would sky rocket.
Labor costs to dry wall a room would suck.
Good burritos would be hard to find.
etc.
etc.
etc.

Agreed, but I still want them all out.... L.A. would be a ghost town....

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by tony404

Who is going to pick the lettuce? work in the restaurants? the poultry plants? They never think this shit thru.

Exactly. The 2 tier US labor system for skilled / unskilled labor and the latter's dependence on incoming foreign labor will definitely complicate any attempts to address any immigration issues. GW Bush has proposed a guest worker program since it dissects the issue on a legal basis. Unfortunately, the immigration issue is discussed on a 'take it or leave it' basis as evidenced by Chertoff's premise.

[Radik]

I agree start with the mexican criminals, not guys who stand by walmart looking for honest work, seems backwards; although wtf are they doing in the your country in the first place.. It's a strange issue for me.

[Antonio]

send them chicas to me, I'll take care of them

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Radik

I agree start with the mexican criminals, not guys who stand by walmart looking for honest work, seems backwards; although wtf are they doing in the your country in the first place.. It's a strange issue for me.

We have to stop targeting just Central and S. America immigrants. It's not like they're the only immigrants committing crimes. Believe you me, I've met far more vicious criminals from the UK who snuck in via Canada.

It's just the sheer numbers are greater from the Central and S. American regions.

Bottom line is the Homeland Security stuff is horseshit as long as the borders are wide open. You and I can't open a bank account or withdraw certain amounts of cash from our own accounts without every cop and Batman on our asses but tens of thousands of people just stroll in. It's a major outpoint of incompetence and negligence to say the least.

Yet this is a humane issue. What might end up happening is by keeping the central and southern Americans holed up in Mexico they might just learn self sufficience enough to build up that region into quite the tourist attraction. Asia is doing this FAST. People are flocking to Asia for medical treatment they wouldn't be able to afford here. Now with this Bird Flu shit spreading into Europe it's only a matter of time before flights are stopped as well as sea faring shipping getting shut down til the danger is handled.

This winter may end up being the straw that broke the camel's back. If this new hurricane Wilma gets going or another one hits hard we're fucked. Not to mention the winter storms. We have to hope the weather is kind tween now and next spring. We're running out of money for rescuing people fast.

We need to keep that into account and form a program that teaches the illegals how to be reliant on their own not dependent on us or their governments.

If we don't get hit with another major disaster in a major region within 6 months we may make it with ease.

Other than that, we need, as a species, to rethink our place and priorities. Our thowback bickering and tribal mentality is counter to our survival.

I've said it before, nature don't give a fuck what color, size, religion, sex, political affiliation you are, mother nature is only concerned with how good a shit machine you are.

Shit ain't no saint, but where it falls, miracles occur.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by tony404

Who is going to pick the lettuce? work in the restaurants? the poultry plants? They never think this shit thru.

I think you are the one who isn't thinking it through. Illegal immigrants in the US cost the US a fucking fortune in various health care, etc, not to mention the huge numbers of them that turn to crime to pay their way. Hell, there is some Hispanic Gang in the United States now with over 30k members. Each illegal they send to jail (for example - and they send a shitload of them to jail) costs on average around $50k per year to keep in there (yeah that's like a good fucking wage for someone who is out of work, not to mention all the other associated costs which are enormous - i.e. the strain on the police system, the cost of dragging them through courts, etc etc). The amount the US would save is also huge, and even if they had to subsidise some forms of work to make it more attractive to people they would have much more money to do so.

[Luc]

what a bunch of bullshit.

first, bush approves illegals to work at Katrina cleanup operations (he lifted the requirement for contractors to check whether employees have a US work permit) which resulted in even bigger truckloads of mexican getting moved to the katrina affected areas, now they all the sudden shift focus and complain that too many mexicans are coming in.

fucking IDIOTS. i wouldn't believe a word of that bullshit.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Maybe deporting the illegals will drive unemployment down.

Yay, for Club Bush as he finds Americans Jobs! No longer Walmart bottom of the barrel employer's! Americans can work in the fields! As long as Americans are employed it might get his approval record higher...

SOme how?

I dunno.

The administration is fucking totally incompetant.

[Screaming]

about fucking time

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by Chief

I think you are the one who isn't thinking it through. Illegal immigrants in the US cost the US a fucking fortune in various health care, etc, not to mention the huge numbers of them that turn to crime to pay their way. Hell, there is some Hispanic Gang in the United States now with over 30k members. Each illegal they send to jail (for example - and they send a shitload of them to jail) costs on average around $50k per year to keep in there (yeah that's like a good fucking wage for someone who is out of work, not to mention all the other associated costs which are enormous - i.e. the strain on the police system, the cost of dragging them through courts, etc etc). The amount the US would save is also huge, and even if they had to subsidise some forms of work to make it more attractive to people they would have much more money to do so.

This might be a viable point if it wasn't for the fact that a large plurality of the inmates are incarcerated for drug related offenses, the vast bulk of those being simple possession or sale/distribution. In many states, there's as many people serving terms for drug-related offenses as violent crimes.

The reason so many people are in jail is simple:

- Jails make money
- Conservatives like money
- ...and their answer to any crime is "lock em up" (or deport, or kill, or torture, or whatever)

This doesn't say anything about the illegal immigrant situation, of course... but it does show that illegal-immigrant related costs are dwarfed by the cost of half the prison budget going to housing people who get high and their dealers.

[pornmonger]

Unemployed blacks will have to. That's why they are doing it so 38% of blacks that are on welfare can get off of welfare. The number of blacks that are unemployed are higher than reported because to be unemployed you have to "willing and able to find work." Most blacks are UNWILLING and UNABLE to find work because they choose not to. That's why they are not included in the unemployment numbers.

Originally Posted by tony404

Who is going to pick the lettuce? work in the restaurants? the poultry plants? They never think this shit thru.

[pornmonger]

After 9/11 most illegals that commit felons are deported.

Originally Posted by Chief

I think you are the one who isn't thinking it through. Illegal immigrants in the US cost the US a fucking fortune in various health care, etc, not to mention the huge numbers of them that turn to crime to pay their way. Hell, there is some Hispanic Gang in the United States now with over 30k members. Each illegal they send to jail (for example - and they send a shitload of them to jail) costs on average around $50k per year to keep in there (yeah that's like a good fucking wage for someone who is out of work, not to mention all the other associated costs which are enormous - i.e. the strain on the police system, the cost of dragging them through courts, etc etc). The amount the US would save is also huge, and even if they had to subsidise some forms of work to make it more attractive to people they would have much more money to do so.

[pornmonger]

What's worst than an incompetent administration is a webmaster that doesn't know his head from his ass.

It doesn't matter what Bush's approval rating is. It's irrelevant because it's his last term. Furthermore, unemployment is at its historical low. US unemployment is one of the lowest in the developed world.

Are American's too good to work in the fields? If you have no food get off your lazy ass and ego and work in the fields.

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Maybe deporting the illegals will drive unemployment down.

Yay, for Club Bush as he finds Americans Jobs! No longer Walmart bottom of the barrel employer's! Americans can work in the fields! As long as Americans are employed it might get his approval record higher...

SOme how?

I dunno.

The administration is fucking totally incompetant.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by rickholio

This might be a viable point if it wasn't for the fact that a large plurality of the inmates are incarcerated for drug related offenses, the vast bulk of those being simple possession or sale/distribution. In many states, there's as many people serving terms for drug-related offenses as violent crimes.

The reason so many people are in jail is simple:

- Jails make money
- Conservatives like money
- ...and their answer to any crime is "lock em up" (or deport, or kill, or torture, or whatever)

This doesn't say anything about the illegal immigrant situation, of course... but it does show that illegal-immigrant related costs are dwarfed by the cost of half the prison budget going to housing people who get high and their dealers.

Well for one I fail to see how jails make money. I know there is the economic arguement that it is pumping money into the US economy by hiring American's, etc to work there, but it isn't really a valid arguement (considering the money could be spent on much better things). The Justice system as a whole is a very very expensive process, and ultimately the money could be pumped back into the US economy in much more positive ways. But in any event (and this is just one example), and correct me if I am wrong, illegal immigrants wouldn't be paying tax on the money they earn, so for one the US Government could offer tax breaks to those people that work low-end jobs. I am not saying there aren't some economic benefits to illegal immigration, but some people talk about it as if stopping it would bring down the US economy, which is ridiculous. The US could certainly go along ok without it. Some adjustments would have to made no doubt, but the US has certainly faced harded situations before and come out on top.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by pornmonger

What's worst than an incompetent administration is a webmaster that doesn't know his head from his ass.

It doesn't matter what Bush's approval rating is. It's irrelevant because it's his last term. Furthermore, unemployment is at its historical low. US unemployment is one of the lowest in the developed world.

Are American's too good to work in the fields? If you have no food get off your lazy ass and ego and work in the fields.

Also it is important to note that in any economy it is imperative to have a certain % unemployed (I forget the exact numbers however that are generally suggested). If too low a % of people are employed it gives workers much more leverage over employer's as the job market would not competitive enough. I think it was in Ireland where the European Union stepped in because unemployment levels were getting to low?

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Chief

I think you are the one who isn't thinking it through. Illegal immigrants in the US cost the US a fucking fortune in various health care, etc, not to mention the huge numbers of them that turn to crime to pay their way. Hell, there is some Hispanic Gang in the United States now with over 30k members. Each illegal they send to jail (for example - and they send a shitload of them to jail) costs on average around $50k per year to keep in there (yeah that's like a good fucking wage for someone who is out of work, not to mention all the other associated costs which are enormous - i.e. the strain on the police system, the cost of dragging them through courts, etc etc). The amount the US would save is also huge, and even if they had to subsidise some forms of work to make it more attractive to people they would have much more money to do so.

Very good point but there's also political costs involved in any crackdown. Anyone remember Gov. Pete Wilson from California and his support on a crackdown on benefits to illegal aliens? His party lost BIG after he left office.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Chief

Also it is important to note that in any economy it is imperative to have a certain % unemployed (I forget the exact numbers however that are generally suggested). If too low a % of people are employed it gives workers much more leverage over employer's as the job market would not competitive enough.

The workers having more leverage against getting ass fucker from employers is bad why? Im confused my father has to work a min of 12 hr days to keep up for all the laid off people while the ceo gave himself a 50 million dollar bonus.This good why?

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Chief

correct me if I am wrong, illegal immigrants wouldn't be paying tax on the money they earn, so for one the US Government could offer tax breaks to those people that work low-end jobs.

This would be true if all illegal immigrant work is the day laborer all cash transaction variety. However, the truth of the matter is there are tons of illegal aliens in the USA who come in with passports and overstay --either as students who overstay or tourists who overstay. In this situation, many get fake documents to get jobs and yes... they get taxed via the witholding tax system.

[dynastoned]

Originally Posted by SetTheWorldonFire

Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

Taking away mexicans is like shutting down the power company.

To depended on the mexcian resource. It's too late, mexicans are here to stay. Expecially in California. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Fransico etc. People have a hard time facing it.

he said it! ^^

[Matt 26z]

I don't see why people support illegal immigration on the basis of the idea that they are taking jobs American's don't want. Set up a guest worker program to fill these jobs if they do exist, and deport everyone else. No exceptions. Simple as that. If they try to come back again and again, lock their ass up.

And if you think they are taking nothing but jobs nobody else wants, think again.

Plus consider that these "undocumented workers" strip money out of local economies. They don't buy a damn thing when they are living in the US. They make as much as they can and take it back to Mexico instead of spending it at local stores like a real American would do.

Illegal immigrants are nothing but trouble for the US.

[$5 submissions]

Frankly, what I dislike about Chertoff's position is that it assumes that ALL THE ILLEGAL ALIEN problem in the US stems from border crossings. That is wrong. Many if not most of the 911 hijackers had passports. Maybe his schtick would be more believable if he cracked down on visa overstayers.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Frankly, what I dislike about Chertoff's position is that it assumes that ALL THE ILLEGAL ALIEN problem in the US stems from border crossings. That is wrong. Many if not most of the 911 hijackers had passports. Maybe his schtick would be more believable if he cracked down on visa overstayers.

very good point

[dynastoned]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I don't see why people support illegal immigration on the basis of the idea that they are taking jobs American's don't want. Set up a guest worker program to fill these jobs if they do exist, and deport everyone else. No exceptions. Simple as that. If they try to come back again and again, lock their ass up.

And if you think they are taking nothing but jobs nobody else wants, think again.

Plus consider that these "undocumented workers" strip money out of local economies. They don't buy a damn thing when they are living in the US. They make as much as they can and take it back to Mexico instead of spending it at local stores like a real American would do.

Illegal immigrants are nothing but trouble for the US.

in other words put farmers out of business? are you going to find an american to pick grapes for $6.75 an hour? good fucking luck..

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by dynastoned

in other words put farmers out of business? are you going to find an american to pick grapes for $6.75 an hour? good fucking luck..

Yep, I agree. However, it's not even $6.75 an hour. Nowadays, farmworkers get paid on a per bucket or per piece basis. VERY VERY hard work. You're under a hot sun, bent down for several hours.

[jayeff]

Illegals = good or bad is one argument, but trying to play on peoples' fears about security when the real agenda is to move out illegals for whatever reason is bullsh*t. Unless Osama was Mexican and they just forgot to tell us... oops... but then what would we be doing in Iraq...

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Many if not most of the 911 hijackers had passports.

Homeland Security was formed after 9/11, but it's role is more than that of protecting the US from terrorism.

When you've got criminals crossing the US/Mexican border, that falls under Homeland Security. Take note that every single area with a high population of illegal Mexicans has uncontrollable crime.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Take note that every single area with a high population of illegal Mexicans has uncontrollable crime.

Don't you just love it when people repeat urban myths to support whatever agenda they happen to have going...

[Matt 26z]

I don't care what anyone says. Any time a business hires illegals, it's actually to get around paying decent American wages.

Take my area for instance. Plenty of illegals to hire. The commercial cleaning industry 15 years ago employed white and black Americans. Then a couple of the services got the bright idea of hiring nothing but illegals so they could submit ultra low contract bids. It worked. They got all the contracts and the services that hired real American's were hit hard. Now they all hire illegals and Americans are out of work.

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by jayeff

Don't you just love it when people repeat urban myths to support whatever agenda they happen to have going...

I'll take it you've never lived near such areas. I have, and I've seen what destruction illegal immigrant population growth does.

Let me use this example...

The high school down the road from me 10 years ago was almost all white Americans and maybe 2 or 3% black. No problems whatsoever at this school. Just a 2% dropout rate. They had a police officer sitting in her own office there for safety, but she was never needed.

Fast forward to 2005. In that 10 years a large neighborhood containing very affordable housing changed and there's a lot of illegals living in there now. They moved from the town over, which is actually on a list in Mexico of places illegals should consider going.

This high school, which was once a desirable place to go, is now crime ridden. They've got medal detectors, guard stations and the whole 9 yards. The only difference? A huge Mexican student population surge, and many of these kids come from illegal families.

Another example...

There was a fairly large strip mall next to this now Mexican neighborhood which once did well when legit Americans lived there. There was a grocery store, two nice resturants, high end antique store, etc... Now ALL of the old stores are out of business and what's there now? Thrift store. Liquor store. Mexican music store. Low end dollar store. Mexican general store (which I've heard sells prescription meds smuggled in from Mexico) etc... It's just nuts.

What's even more of a slap in the face is you see Mexican flags flying EVERYWHERE and not one American flag.

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by Chief

Well for one I fail to see how jails make money. I know there is the economic arguement that it is pumping money into the US economy by hiring American's, etc to work there, but it isn't really a valid arguement (considering the money could be spent on much better things). The Justice system as a whole is a very very expensive process, and ultimately the money could be pumped back into the US economy in much more positive ways. But in any event (and this is just one example), and correct me if I am wrong, illegal immigrants wouldn't be paying tax on the money they earn, so for one the US Government could offer tax breaks to those people that work low-end jobs. I am not saying there aren't some economic benefits to illegal immigration, but some people talk about it as if stopping it would bring down the US economy, which is ridiculous. The US could certainly go along ok without it. Some adjustments would have to made no doubt, but the US has certainly faced harded situations before and come out on top.

You're missing the point. Jails are money makers, because the facilities to build and the costs to operate a correctional facility are much lower than money being paid to the private owners to maintain them (by federal, state and local governments handing them YOUR tax money).

Like many things in the US, a large portion of the criminal justice system is privatized. Yes, there are people who actually make a great deal of money for every petty thief, every pothead, every street whore who gets tossed in the clink. Originally, the push to privatize was based on studies showing that the publically administrated system was overcrowded and difficult to administer. Some marginal cost savings have indeed been realized by privatizing, but now there exists a powerful and growing lobby body which has a vested interest in keeping people incarcerated for longer periods and for lighter offenses. The US prison population has tripled since the Carter administration, and (coincidentally?) it was the Reagan administration what started the push for privatization, and set the groundwork for mandatory minimum sentences. To say that privately run prisons have been a serious cash cow is a major understatement.

So it's not that the prison industry actually 'makes money' overall for the country (although the cost of running same, over $30bil annually, is added to the GDP), but it is certainly a money maker for those few who are capitalizing on crime, and which horses they back at elections time with their political contributions.

For those of you looking at making money off this, be advised: The public system is once again reaching dangerous levels of overcrowding, which means that more private institutions will most likely be going up... according to the latest numbers I could find, there was a 3.4% increase in a half year between January and June 2004. The outlook seems bullish to me! See the report here.

As I said though, all that is orthogonal to the illegal immigrant situation. Really, prisons and immigration barely affect each other.

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I don't care what anyone says. Any time a business hires illegals, it's actually to get around paying decent American wages.

Take my area for instance. Plenty of illegals to hire. The commercial cleaning industry 15 years ago employed white and black Americans. Then a couple of the services got the bright idea of hiring nothing but illegals so they could submit ultra low contract bids. It worked. They got all the contracts and the services that hired real American's were hit hard. Now they all hire illegals and Americans are out of work.

... and then Wal*Mart turns around and hires them.

Capitalism in action, ne?

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by rickholio

... and then Wal*Mart turns around and hires them.

They were not hired directly by Wal-Mart, they were employed by cleaning services Wal-Mart hired.

Who knows if Wal-Mart knew they were getting a service provider that hired illegals, but someone there probably put one and one together.

There's actually a fairly well known political figure in my state who campaigns against illegal immigration, yet signs cleaning services for his business that hire illegals so he can save a buck.

I know the owner of a service who did work for him for over 5 years, and then got a call one day saying another service (known to hire illegals) was willing to do it for just $20 per visit and asked if he could match that offer. You factor in the cost of legal labor, supplies, etc... He KNEW he was getting a cleaning service with illegals. The bottom line here is that a couple of Americans lost their jobs in just that one incident.