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Snake Doctor

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#101

03-06-2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

*rollseyes*.. we produce better steel far cheaper.. and now you are going all commie and putting a tarriff on it.. face it you can't compete.. you have to babysit YOUR OWN.. thats what a tarriff is.

"foriegn dumping" of steel.. is that what you call "trade" when you don't like it?.. the US parades all over the world preaching free trade until it applies to them... first lamb now steel.. take your own medicine like men instead of crybabies.

Ummm, with all due respect, GO FUCK YOURSELF!

The bottome line is that your countries government subsidises your steel industry with your tax dollars, thereby making the playing field uneven.
Now in order to level the playing field we could
A)subisdize our own steel industry
or
B)impose a tarriff on foreign steel

We chose B, and now the playing field IS EVEN, and you're whining that it isn't fair.

If every country in the world had to open their markets to American goods the way American markets are open to theirs, we would be even richer than we already are and all of you know it.

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mika

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#102

03-06-2002, 03:01 PM

"We agree that subsidies distort trade flows. And it is true that subsidies were a significant distortion to trade flows in the past. Countries all around the world, in Europe, Latin America and Asia were significant owners of and subsidizers of steelmaking companies. However, the process of privatization and elimination of subsidies has been the trend everywhere in the world, except in the US. Only in the US has subsidization been on the increase, both for the weak mills and the minimills, who have been adding capacity with heavy subsidies from state and local governments. "
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bhutocracy

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#103

03-06-2002, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Ummm, with all due respect, GO FUCK YOURSELF!

The bottome line is that your countries government subsidises your steel industry with your tax dollars, thereby making the playing field uneven.
Now in order to level the playing field we could
A)subisdize our own steel industry
or
B)impose a tarriff on foreign steel

We chose B, and now the playing field IS EVEN, and you're whining that it isn't fair.

If every country in the world had to open their markets to American goods the way American markets are open to theirs, we would be even richer than we already are and all of you know it.

thanks for the respectful GFY - then why not option A? but are you seriously maintaining that you don't subsidise your primary industries? look at your farming industry.. how many billions do they get from the government?..

im going to have to find figures on oz steel subsidies now..
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tha_timinator

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#104

03-06-2002, 03:32 PM

why do you guys keep talking about your own asses?!? that's not what this is all about at all! it's about THE WORLD, this tariff is bad for WORLD-economy... economic theory simply proves it...

but hé, if you don't wanna believe it... i don't care... we'll see in about 5 years... good luck guys.

i'm outta here, really getting sick of this conversation without proper arguments...

btw now don't judge me on the fact that i'm dutch... that simply doesn't make a difference... if i were from california i would still be saying this...

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Snake Doctor

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#105

03-06-2002, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

thanks for the respectful GFY - then why not option A? but are you seriously maintaining that you don't subsidise your primary industries? look at your farming industry.. how many billions do they get from the government?..

im going to have to find figures on oz steel subsidies now..

We subsidize farmers because quite frankly, they're too god damned good at growing food.
So we subsidize them in order to keep prices from becoming depressed, and export our surplus food for dirt cheap or literally give it away to third world countries.
We don't subsidize it so that our farmers can sell American wheat cheaper than European wheat, which is what your country does with steel.

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bhutocracy

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#106

03-06-2002, 03:45 PM

"Australia is arguing that Californian steel mills, which process Australian slab steel, would be disadvantaged if tariffs were imposed. The tariffs are proposed to ensure the steel mills use more expensive US slab steel.

Mr Howard yesterday raised the steel-trade row with US Treasury head Paul O'Neill, after earlier writing a strong letter of protest to President George W.Bush.

Speaking after the meeting, Mr Howard said "one of the reasons why I'm raising it so strongly is because I don't want Australian jobs to go in an industry that has already shed jobs and is not protected".

He said the United States steel industry needed to be modernised and made more efficient, like the Australian industry, rather than subsidised."

but thats hardly conclusive..

Last edited by bhutocracy; 03-06-2002, 03:47 PM.
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bhutocracy

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#107

03-06-2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

We subsidize farmers because quite frankly, they're too god damned good at growing food.
So we subsidize them in order to keep prices from becoming depressed, and export our surplus food for dirt cheap or literally give it away to third world countries.
We don't subsidize it so that our farmers can sell American wheat cheaper than European wheat, which is what your country does with steel.

your farmers get 70 billion to keep the prices artificially high?

sweet.. wheres my pitchfork?
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mika

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#108

03-06-2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

So we subsidize them in order to keep prices from becoming depressed, and export our surplus food for dirt cheap or literally give it away to third world countries.
We don't subsidize it so that our farmers can sell American wheat cheaper than European wheat, which is what your country does with steel.

In 2 sentences you say both a) you export wheat dirt cheap and b) but you don't sell it cheaper than European

LOL this made my day.

Btw, If I show you ten Americans who disagree with Bush's move, can you show me one foreigner (per 10 Americans) who didn't disagree?

Bush can simply do anything he wants now that he's so popular and eveyone kissing his ass and backing up his actions..

BLIND BLIND OPEN YOUR EYES
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tha_timinator

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#109

03-06-2002, 04:00 PM

mika's right again

(damn, i posted again...)

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TheFLY

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#110

03-06-2002, 04:28 PM

Hmm... so this means Bush can afford to lower taxes now, right? Hehe...

Won't there be loopholes around this tarriff anyway? Seems to me if I needed to buy quality steel now I'd walk over the border to Canada and order it cheap...
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#111

03-06-2002, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by tha_timinator
why do you guys keep talking about your own asses?!? that's not what this is all about at all! it's about THE WORLD, this tariff is bad for WORLD-economy... economic theory simply proves it...

but hé, if you don't wanna believe it... i don't care... we'll see in about 5 years... good luck guys.

i'm outta here, really getting sick of this conversation without proper arguments...

btw now don't judge me on the fact that i'm dutch... that simply doesn't make a difference... if i were from california i would still be saying this...

I agree for 100%

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#112

03-06-2002, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by theWatsonian
Can any of you imagine what would happen if the United States pushed for equal trade with the rest of the world?

Well can you ??? I can tell you that that would be the most wishfull situation for the world economy. Trade surplus and deficits for longer periods aren't good for any country in this world.

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Nedder

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#113

03-06-2002, 04:34 PM

>>Nedder,

I want to hire you as personal entertainer.

200K USD per year, only condition is that you become a citizen of the European Union.

;-)

<<

Nice of you to hire your Daddy dual, keep it in the family baby.

Nz
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#114

03-06-2002, 04:39 PM

I always knew you were my daddy.
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Nedder

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#115

03-06-2002, 04:40 PM

Mika said...>>Bush can simply do anything he wants now that he's so popular and eveyone kissing his ass and backing up his actions.. <<

Dude, first RATIONAL thing you've said all day.

You can question our economic and political strategy all day, but your own incessant whining is what ultimately defeats your own argument.

Namely, the US sneezes, you catch the cold. The fact of the matter is, as you so eloquently stated, Bush can simply do anything he wants (sort of), but more to the point, the US can do anything it wants because ultimately, our decisions good or bad, can destroy your industries in a heartbeat.

Try not to bitch so much about the country that keeps you living well, it'll make you a better fuck in the future.

Nz
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Sleepy

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#116

03-06-2002, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2

Ummm, with all due respect, GO FUCK YOURSELF!
If every country in the world had to open their markets to American goods the way American markets are open to theirs, we would be even richer than we already are and all of you know it.

bhutocracy, did you get your hands on some American beer ? Wheres the voice of reason ?

America is in a recession. When we are doing good our allies do good and when we are doing bad our allies get a taste of that too. Predicting the ripples from this are all speculation and cant even be slightly calculated with any accuracy.

Bethlehem steel
http://oboylephoto.com/steel/steel4.htm
Look at the size of that building and imagine how many people worked in it. The town never recovered from it's loss. If that plant was running again and doing well it would mean alot to our economy.

And all you foreign webmasters bitching about signups.. you think they are going to get better before our economy does ?
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FreeOnes

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#117

03-06-2002, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Nedder
Mika said...>>Bush can simply do anything he wants now that he's so popular and eveyone kissing his ass and backing up his actions.. <<

Dude, first RATIONAL thing you've said all day.

You can question our economic and political strategy all day, but your own incessant whining is what ultimately defeats your own argument.

Namely, the US sneezes, you catch the cold. The fact of the matter is, as you so eloquently stated, Bush can simply do anything he wants (sort of), but more to the point, the US can do anything it wants because ultimately, our decisions good or bad, can destroy your industries in a heartbeat.

Try not to bitch so much about the country that keeps you living well, it'll make you a better fuck in the future.

Nz

This is so funny about you Americans, well at least the ones here posting in this thread. All the time you are talking about we none-Americans bitching at the USA. In fact it's the opposite, in every reply you are disparaging other countries. Almost all none-Amercians are giving replies which are neutral and objective.

And now go ahead with yelling again
as I'm going to

Last edited by FreeOnes; 03-06-2002, 05:11 PM.

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Phil21

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#118

03-06-2002, 06:12 PM

When all the foriegn little whining fucks actually open their markets up 100% to US exports, then you have cause to bitch about this shit.

Until then, STFU and GFY. Idiots.

Isolationist and proud of it! ;)

-Phil

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bhutocracy

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#119

03-06-2002, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Sleepy

bhutocracy, did you get your hands on some American beer ? Wheres the voice of reason ?

America is in a recession. When we are doing good our allies do good and when we are doing bad our allies get a taste of that too. Predicting the ripples from this are all speculation and cant even be slightly calculated with any accuracy.

i wouldn't characterise myself as the voice of reason..

YOU still have to come out drinking with me! - seriously give me a good US beer to try.. bud's no good.. and the closest i've got otherwise is corona

to be honest, i was stupidly replying in kind to the nationalist sentiments here because not only were they inflammatory, but severely lacking in any empathy with anyone but themselves.. It's just a bit sad to be getting on here and saying "well suck it" when people are going to be out of jobs everywhere because of this, including the US.. and it's the exact opposite of what your government gets everyone else to do..

we don't actually do that much trade with the US.. only in a few key industries.. we rely a lot more on servicing the asian region..the US economy is actually picking up a little and the australian economy is the fastest growing at the moment.. we seem particularly shielded from everything thats been happening..

it's more the spirit of the tarriff being so hypocritical.... and im also ashamed of my own country.. we are always the first to jump up and volunteer ourselves to help out the US and give you guys moral support and troops.. yapping around like a little dog jumping around it's master.. and we take it like a bitch whenever it comes to things economic.. i mean you'd think in return for basically being a US outpost we'd be thrown a frickin' bone.. but no... just have to watch our subservient dress wearing leaders suck dick at every available opportunity for free...

if we weren't taking over hollywood right now i'd be damn pissed

Last edited by bhutocracy; 03-06-2002, 06:16 PM.
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Phil21

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#120

03-06-2002, 06:20 PM

Let me rephrase.

If you're country has 100% open trade with the US, then you should be exempt from the tariff, IMO. Otherwise if your country thinks it's a good idea to tariff auto's, wheat, beef, or whatever the fuck then you can just go to fucking hell.

I'm more pissed at Japan and China than anyone else, as I don't have an inkling as to what is going on with the rest of the world. But the trade imbalance is pretty fucked up, and due at least in part by artificial means imposed by other countries that we're just supposed to be cool with. Yeah fucking right. Clinton is gone, enough of taking it up the ass from the rest of the world, time to actually stand up for ourselves now.

Also propping your industries up in order to destroy US companies (i.e. wal-mart practices), is bullshit. Go fuckyourselves.

Just one more "ignorant" American posting, pay no mind. But this is the sentiment in I would daresay MOST rural/blue collar type communities. Why do you think that is?

-Phil

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#121

03-06-2002, 06:34 PM

Thanks for making me home sick with the pics of Beth Steel. The only thing missing was a pic at night when it is glowing.

It is sad..listen to the song Allentown but still doesn't mean this is right. I guess I care about people all over the world not just in my backyard.

It is all good and fine to only look after 'our own' but what happens when 'our own' needs the world's help? Incase your memory doesn't stretch back six months you might remember that those occasions do happen.

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bhutocracy

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#122

03-06-2002, 06:34 PM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/30/n...ational17.html

"Mr Howard, on his arrival in New York yesterday, said: "We don't subsidise our steel industry and there's been a lot of pain, as Australians will know, in the steel industry to cities like Newcastle and Wollongong and in South Australia.

"There've been a lot of ... job losses. Therefore we react rather strongly to protective measures and quotas and subsidies by other countries that affect the highly efficient Australian steel industry."

we don't subsidise our industry.. GFY

Last edited by bhutocracy; 03-06-2002, 06:36 PM.
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Jayson

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#123

03-06-2002, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Phil21
Let me rephrase.

If you're country has 100% open trade with the US, then you should be exempt from the tariff, IMO. Otherwise if your country thinks it's a good idea to tariff auto's, wheat, beef, or whatever the fuck then you can just go to fucking hell.
fuckyourselves.

Something us little Aussies have been trying to get off the US for years. We actualy thought Bush was going to push it through but that looks dead now.

Dont think that the US actually wants free trade with every country despite the rhetoric.

Jayson

Last edited by Jayson; 03-06-2002, 06:52 PM.

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bhutocracy

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#124

03-06-2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Phil21

Just one more "ignorant" American posting, pay no mind. But this is the sentiment in I would daresay MOST rural/blue collar type communities. Why do you think that is?

-Phil

it's not confined to america thats for sure....
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Sleepy

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#125

03-06-2002, 06:51 PM

bhutocracy, catch me on ICQ. If you give me your address I will send you a full case of good American beer from our oldest brewery.

On the other matters - I think all Americans can understand how you might feel. We had a secret war with Russia for generations. When their government fell our government sent them hundreds of millions of dollars. It really blew us away that we were sending our hard earned tax dollars to Russians. That money was sent to make sure a stable government was holding the key to the Russian military and their nukes. We understood but we still didnt like it. We also felt like the worlds babysitter again.
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bhutocracy

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#126

03-06-2002, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Sleepy
bhutocracy, catch me on ICQ. If you give me your address I will send you a full case of good American beer from our oldest brewery.

On the other matters - I think all Americans can understand how you might feel. We had a secret war with Russia for generations. When their government fell our government sent them hundreds of millions of dollars. It really blew us away that we were sending our hard earned tax dollars to Russians. That money was sent to make sure a stable government was holding the key to the Russian military and their nukes. We understood but we still didnt like it. We also felt like the worlds babysitter again.

dude - i didn't mean give me a beer.. i meant give me the name of one - if we can get past quarantine i'll send over a case of some good aussie stuff too.. um.. we'll do our bit for cultural relations
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#127

03-06-2002, 07:35 PM

Bhut, if things as are you say they are, then the Aussies rock.

I don't agree with a lot of the bullshit this government does, but I sure as fuck feel a lot better with bush at the helm than clinton. Not saying he's the best guy for the job or anything, just the lesser of the two evils. Hopefully someday a true president can get elected without the party line bullshit (Ventura! haha! whoo!)

But, I do find it hard to believe your government has their borders open 100% to free trade, I just don't buy it.

I say either all countries open their damn borders up 100%, or fucking don't trade with eachother. Should fix things right quick.

-Phil

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Sleepy

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#128

03-06-2002, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

dude - i didn't mean give me a beer.. i meant give me the name of one - if we can get past quarantine i'll send over a case of some good aussie stuff too.. um.. we'll do our bit for cultural relations

All you can get is our Commercial beer in Australia. Just like we can only gets Fosters. I'd love to exchange a case of beer with you ! Sounds great to me !
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bhutocracy

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#129

03-06-2002, 07:58 PM

yeah.. i understand the US position of propping up a lot of countries.. but at the same time there is a benefit to the US of doing so... i still feel a twinge when i know how much our government gives out in foreign aid when we don't have our own shit sorted out.. but foreign aid is often a euphamism for investment..
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bhutocracy

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#130

03-06-2002, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Sleepy

All you can get is our Commercial beer in Australia. Just like we can only gets Fosters. I'd love to exchange a case of beer with you ! Sounds great to me !

done deal!! where can i find out what aussie beer you get over there so i can get you something better? FOSTERS?? who the hell drinks fosters? you can't even find it here in OZ.. seriously.. if i went to a pub they wouldn't have it on tap... or in the fridge.. i might be able to find it in a bottle shop.. or in an outback "themed" pub for tourists
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#131

03-06-2002, 08:19 PM

From what you said Im thinking we probably do not get any of your "real" beer here in the states. Im thrilled about the beer exchange idea ! I dont think customs will worry much about
sealed bottles of beer.
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