That certainly explains your low self esteem.

you foreigners can bite me.

30% baby, pay up or go back to the 3rd world. The U.S. OWNS you and your mother. Shit we own your mother's mother too. Better fall in line or its "B52 Baby, way up in the sky, come drop your lovin' on me child"

Idiot Euros, stay out of our bidness. France is the biggest backstabbing POS country around, and you want to criticize us?
I think we should impose a 30% tariff on Euros who don't know how to shower.


Nz :321GFY

Did I exclude anyone in person?

Obviously you have never been to France - or you would impose a larger tariff :Graucho


Hehehehehe ( Now in french ) huhuhuhuhuh

grew up in the shadow of Bethlehem Steel and have a heck of a lot of family in Pittsburgh. So, I know the hits the industry has taken but I am still for free trade and not stabbing out friends in the economic back.

We scream at other countries to let us in to trade freely with them but then we turn and do the opposite for them.

Mika btw, has always sounded well thought out too me. He has often stated he likes in Americans (unless I read wrong) but isn't afraid to state how he and most of the outside world feels.

Wonder how many people on here that can't aruge anything but 'we own your asses' could actually pick out countries on an unlabled map. Please note that doesn't include those of you who in this post have used intellegent reasoning, even if i disagree with it.

hmm..not sure I disagree about France tho ;)

all you euro economists listen up.

*WE* the U.S. are the largest consumer nation. That means *WE* control the wallet. you want our money, you play by our rules. Bush knows this and soon you will too. It's easy for you euro-pansies to dercy the use of tariffs because instead of tariffs, your governments subsidize your businesses so they casn compete (knowing, of course, that they couldn't compete fairly).

There REALLY is nothing we need that we can't make ourselves. If there is, we'll just pay for it as we please.

That's economics baby! :1orglaugh

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

Sjayne, thanks I appreciate your comment.

I'm sure some may have got the impression I dont like America, and that is my fault. But some people just like to point a finger at other countries, when they're having problem(s) in their own.

I have taken comments about my country beng allied with nazis and I discussed it and didn't take it to the personal level.

Steel tariffs are a seriously different issue than being allied with nazis

this whole thing is just sooo funny ...
i have nothing against america in general but hé, read mika's explanation and face it! i still haven't read one single reason against his theory...
all i've read is crap like: "blahblah america is the greatest blahblah the rest of the world should shit its pants blahblah no matter what bush says he's always right" etc. etc..
those aren't arguments guys!

I went to the races the other day and saw less blinkers there than in this thread :)

HAHAHAHAHAH

Great post Pr0view

what kind of argument is this!??! you're just making yourself ridiculous man...

Yeah ?
I wonder on who's suggestion Mr. CrackHead relied when he told the world that he 'choked on a cookie' :1orglaugh

the WTO has a few economist on their side too. However, the one thing I have learned in the past 4 years of university is that economists never agree on anything...then they expect us homely politics and sociology majors to try to make sense out of it for an essay :)

once again Crab you show your True LACK of information

It was a Pretzel

:1orglaugh

I dont know if anyone is actually interested in the subject in an objective sense,

But EU exports as share of total world exports is 20%, while USA has 18%.
Numbers for imports are 18% and 22% respectively.

This means that at the moment USA is more dependant in import than EU. Bush's move maybe a try to fix this, who knows?

One thing is for sure, free trade is reality between high tech consumer products but not raw materials, textiles etc. This puts 3rd world countries in a very bad position. USA can export computers without tariffs, but Vietnamese cannot export catfish without tariff, because that fisherman in Louisiana must have his job.

As far as economic wars: "We can be friends in the battlefield, but not in the boardroom"

For an Economist sitting in Finland its about World Economics

For the guy sitting here or in Pitt or Chicago its about his Families JOBS and income

I have 4 freinds whos KIDS didnt get a christmas cause LTV shut down

Mika How many people do you know PERSONALLY that have lost their jobs or income due to this

Mika did I tell you I have a GIRL model with your name

Is that like a Multi-sex name like Bobbie? or Roni

she will be on tonight LIVE at 5pm est and she has HUGE titties

My father has been unemployed for 10+ years because of reasons that I can explain, but not fix.... Economics shit..

Ya you told about that girl, Is she Asian, I think Mika is a Japanese girl's name.

Gimme a pass, please

Which stinks but for some of the other countries that are going to be effected by this it is more like their kids going without food.

Oh and I think i have a number of sets of the female Mika. My personal fave being her in goth style and folling around with a skull.

Maybe a few of you remember the last time the government put tariffs on imported raw materiel...it was intended to help the ailing US steel industry to update their facilities and increase their capacity.More importantly it was intended to allow the US steel industry to compete on a more level playing field...that was 15 years ago..
If the industry would have made the proper capital investment,rather than simply appease shareholders..they would not be in the identical predicament they are in today and we would not be seeing the large and constantly expanding market for offshore raw materiels.
My real job is in the metal stamping industry. And my experience tells me that this move will create a new round of inflation as the US steel producers will struggle to supply the current demand..and will use this simply as a tool to push through a new round of price increases.Which of course the consumer will absorb..Keep your eye on auto prices later this year..And if you are thinking about building a bridge...goodluck on that..

Yep. Tariffs never work.

Quote from http://www.citac-trade.org/latest/re...05_03_2002.htm
Citac iis not, off course, an objective party, but those who think "Bush saves OUR JOBS", might wanna consider it again.

Three separate studies released since December, looking at the potential impact of steel restrictions from a variety of perspectives, have all found that tariffs and quotas on imports will cost thousands of American jobs. The CITAC study, "Estimated Economic Effects of Proposed Relief Remedies for Steel," shows that in the highest tariff scenario evaluated (20%), 74,500 jobs would be lost nationwide, including 30,600 in steel-consuming sectors. That is eight jobs lost for every one steel job preserved.

"We're especially concerned now about downstream users who must import because their steel inputs are in short supply in this country or not available at all. The President's proclamation, while short on details, apparently will examine annually requests for product exclusions and will deal with exclusions for 120 days. American steel-using manufacturers cannot afford to wait for long for exclusions they need to remain competitive," said CITAC Counsel Lewis Leibowitz.

I agree. We should just copy are euro friends and subsidize our steel industry so our guys can sell cheaper steel. We don't need tariffs, we just need to copy the euros.
They couldn't bitch if we cheated in the exact way they do now could they?:1orglaugh

That certainly is an option to consider..there is much history(recent) to support the fact that for whatever reasons..the US steel and nonferous industries cannot keepup with current demand.Current lead times for nonferous run 12-16 weeks for domestic materiel or 4-6 weeks for import.

Which SUCKS

But I have too worry about my own first

I normally like to avoid pissing matches like this as well but this is just so fucking hypocritical to let go - so its time for some Australian perspective.

Yes we are pissed, our biggest steel plant sends 30% of its output to the US - that will probably cost jobs because not only do we have to find somewhere to send the excess, so does everyone else.

America is the first one to bitch and winge and run like a little kid to the WTO whenever someone else so much as mentions tarrifs or production subsidies but is quite happy to do it when there are some votes to be had.

If you think this has to do with anything other than congressional elections this year then you are just silly. That's right, this is not economics its politics. Thats why Bush's economists that are smarter than Mika are probably as pissed as Mika is - cause it just plain doesnt make sense.

Unless the US steel industry uses this 3 years to really fix its act then what has it acheived, nothing. Because in 3 years you will probably be even less competitive than you are today and you can lose even more jobs.

With any luck, all the countries affected by this will get their shit together and use the steel to cheaply produce the end products which as has been suggested will actually cost more jobs in the US than it saves. So once the tarrifs come off you cant sell steel and you cant sell the by products.

Finally, this isnt the time for America to be pissing on allies like Brittain and Australia because although we arent making a big manpower comitment to the War on Terror, the fact that we are there along side you helps with the political atmosphere.

Jayson

Fuck I really hate people talking like this. Here in Holland we call it talking like a chick without any brains. You need some help :helpme

You are another idiot! WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE :321GFY

If you would know more about the The Wealth of Nations theory then you would never have said this crap.

I don't think so and it's really frustrating to read this thread :waaaaahh For some reason I keep getting back to read it, although I know it's pretty useless to respond....

One interesting point hasn't been brought up yet.
Under WTO rules Europe and other nations affected by this are now allowed to get a compensation. Which means that they are allowed to impose traffs on any product they want to.
And this is where the real fun starts.
Specific companies can be targeted and only tariffs can only be imposed on their products. Once this company lost a considerable market share in europe the EU can move on the the next company.
I think it will be fun to watch

Holland? We own you too.

Facts first ladies. Bush imposed the tariff to keep his ass afloat in the battleground steel states that he lost or close to lost last election. That is what we in the real world call Politics. And if you think that is dumb, well you must be from Europe (or Holland) where the smell of your armpit hair obviously clouds your fiscal and political sensibilities (ie. for those of you who think this is talking like a chick, it means you smell...like really BAD).

Politics is all about keeping your ass in power, end of story...and just as Bush is in power, the US is in power and you all know it. Our ripple is your tidal wave. You reap all of our benefits but never hesitate to bash our greedy selfish asses for being just what we are, the United States of America (ie. your daddy).

I don't blame you, you are in good company. In the middle east where those in power are unable to control their populations, they simply use the news media and popular communications to blame the U.S. and Israel for all of their problems, deflecting is good politics, but poor strategy in the long run.

Taa Taa Girls.

Nz :ak47:

Nedder,

You are a very amusing character.
Continue please.

Nedder you are even more amusing than 12clicks

Q: Who's your daddy Dualcpu?


A: You know the answer.

Nz, putting another Euro Peon in his place.


:thumbsup

Man don't even get me started about Germany. I'm of German descent and I've been undergoing gene therapy to try and get those bad genes removed.

12 Clicks is the only one here with any sense. You guys can sit and quote your favorite economic theorists but just remember, the world can't exist in an economic vacuum when Dubya's got the switch.

Who's your daddy?

Nz:Graucho

Nedder I agree you have chosen a great leader:

"My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific."

All I see is more US bashing. If you don't like what the US is doing then go hold a rally outside our embassy in your country.

You simply cannot take politics out of economics, no matter how hard you try.

Holland is pretty pissed !

I can't believe it, I totally fucking agree with 12clicks :thumbsup , first time for everything I suppose.

All of the countries that are "furious" about this are countries that run a trade surplus with the US. So fucking what if you're furious, what are you going to do? Stop doing business with us all together? That would hurt you a fuck of a lot more than a steel tarriff, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to us.
So you can piss and moan and whine all you want, but it doesn't change a damn thing.

This is like saying Compaq or Gateway are "furious" with Microsoft, so fucking what? What are they going to do, boycott Windows on their PC's??? and sign their own death warrant? I think not.


And you can shove your economic studies where the sun don't shine, for every study that says one thing, we can find another group of PHD's to say the exact opposite. It all depends on which political party funds the think tank that did the study.

Good paying steel industry jobs in Cleveland and Pennsylvania, that's good economics and smart politics :thumbsup

Yep your right. But the economics have been taken out of the politics here.

The only economic benefits from this decision are for Bush and his politician mates who get to keep their jobs.

Jayson

Well said.

Can any of you imagine what would happen if the United States pushed for equal trade with the rest of the world?

That is the ultimate option. Internatiol trade equals competition but also co-operation, which means playing by simple rules.

If USA wouldnt care, then why was O'Neill BEGGING for a 3 year "pass". If USA wouldnt trade with other countries, you guys would be out of everything except hamburgers in no time ;))

*rollseyes*.. we produce better steel far cheaper.. and now you are going all commie and putting a tarriff on it.. face it you can't compete.. you have to babysit YOUR OWN.. thats what a tarriff is.

"foriegn dumping" of steel.. is that what you call "trade" when you don't like it?.. the US parades all over the world preaching free trade until it applies to them... first lamb now steel.. take your own medicine like men instead of crybabies.

I think it is safe to assume that you are delusional.

look.. sorry for being that straight, but it just shits me that it's a bit hypocritical.. although i thouroughly understand local issues like loss of jobs and whatnot, don't forget we are facing the same thing.. and to say that foreign steel imports are "babysitting" other countries is just laughable..

I concur.

=summary of the thread

bah it's not trade.. just politics.. i can't believe i get caught up in this crap..

Nedder,

I want to hire you as personal entertainer.

200K USD per year, only condition is that you become a citizen of the European Union.

;-)