Producing porn is different from producing Ford cars.

[Paul Markham]

Some seem to think otherwise, but I doubt if the surfer spending $30 a month does.

There are many different elements that go to making a good porn set what I've done here is list what I think is important and given them a % of importance.

This is a personal view, but I welcome comments as always.

25% Models Beauty
Simple one really a Grace will convert better than a Susane. Nothing wrong with Susane and I love working with her, but Grace is better looking. Expect to pay more for these girls, but expect to earn more from them as well.

20% Pornographers experience
Over the years you learn more than how to get the exposure right. You learn how to control, direct and motivate different models, the most important tool in a pornographers skills. Models come to a shoot to earn money, usually with little intention of doing anything more than the minimum and no intention of fucking anyone, even if they are doing porn boy girl scenes. We have to make them look like they will fuck the world for a pizza. Also add to this his knowledge of the niche he's shooting.

15% Pornographers personality
Some guys with all the skills in the world just can't shoot porn, simply because the girls do not like him. They distrust him and he puts them on the defensive.

10% Models personality
This is essential, some girls are happier posing nude and for porn than others. Some think we are all perverts, or they should be in control or are just plain dull and bored by the whole thing. A few girls are excited by the whole porn posing thing and very willing, some are not and even on guard.

10% Quantity of work
A model and a shooter get bored after a few hours of this, it gets harder to motivate yourself and the models. By the end of a ten set shoot day the work is crap.

10% Shooting on the right day.
Ask your girlfriend what I mean by this if you do not know. There are days in a girls cycle when she is hornier, get her on that day and you get a better shoot.

4% Shooting the right scenario
Girls want to be portrayed as beautiful sex goddesses not as the slut next door. Shooting a girl in her fantasy will produce better work than doing something she does not like.

3% Photography skills
With todays digital cameras anyone with an IQ over 50 should be able to get the exposure and focus right.

3% Equipment
If the model walks in and see you have $10,000 worth of equipment you are going to get her attention and a different reaction than if you're shooting with a $300 camera her boyfriend uses.

I might have the % figures wrong because this is a personal view and I put it in my order of importance. But as I said I'm willing to listen to your thoughts.

So when you're buying porn think about what you delivering to the surfer. Something off a production line will not produce the same reactions as something crafted with skills.

So when you compare prices between an experienced professional and guy who's been shooting 12 months please ask yourself who will convert the best. If you don't think there's a difference between the two ask yourself if the surfer willing to spend $30 does.

[Paul Markham]

Bumping it for some replies.

[DVTimes]

ok.

[bigdog]

you are thinking way too deep, you should be more worried about how am i going to get the most money out of my members

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Bumping it for some replies.

here's one: good post

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by bigdog

you are thinking way too deep, you should be more worried about how am i going to get the most money out of my members

You do that by buying the right content.

Once you have the members it's all about content.

Converting them is about design and content.

Showing them what you have is about traffic, design and content.

Unless you have another method I don't know about.

[jayeff]

How am I selling my site and monetizing it?

I think you tend to forget that most sites present their content as part of the overall graphic design, using text and impulse triggers to close their sales. And although affiliates may talk about filtering traffic, paysite operators are usually happy to get whatever they can: they have consoles etc to take advantage of surfers who do not like what they see. The sales made, most sponsors anticipate that members are unlikely to stay more than a month or two, so they work hard to cross-sell and up-sell.

Specific aspects of the content are almost irrelevant in that context and were it not for the site operators who believe they can improve on this business model by adding elements from what you might call - for want of a better word - the "quality" model, general content prices would likely be depressed even further.

Your message is relevant to sites which rely primarily on large volumes and regular updates of good, but basically run-of-the mill content to attract and retain members. But it ignores the sites which have built their success on having distinctive styles to set them apart from the herd. Were I to run a paysite again, that is where I would aim and the main reason I never did so is because it is so hard to find an uncommitted photographer in our field whose material really makes you sit up and take notice.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by jayeff

How am I selling my site and monetizing it?

I think you tend to forget that most sites present their content as part of the overall graphic design, using text and impulse triggers to close their sales. And although affiliates may talk about filtering traffic, paysite operators are usually happy to get whatever they can: they have consoles etc to take advantage of surfers who do not like what they see. The sales made, most sponsors anticipate that members are unlikely to stay more than a month or two, so they work hard to cross-sell and up-sell.

Specific aspects of the content are almost irrelevant in that context and were it not for the site operators who believe they can improve on this business model by adding elements from what you might call - for want of a better word - the "quality" model, general content prices would likely be depressed even further.

Your message is relevant to sites which rely primarily on large volumes and regular updates of good, but basically run-of-the mill content to attract and retain members. But it ignores the sites which have built their success on having distinctive styles to set them apart from the herd. Were I to run a paysite again, that is where I would aim and the main reason I never did so is because it is so hard to find an uncommitted photographer in our field whose material really makes you sit up and take notice.

I hear what you're saying and agree that a different design will convert in a different way. But as an industry we all sell porn content ultimately. And you using your design skills will improve conversions if you can improve the porn quality of the content.

But here's the crunch. Spotting and purchasing the right content. How many insist quality is down to the quality of the photography, or the most important thing is the price per image?

What ever you do or sell with the same traffic and design, the better product you show the customer the more you will earn.

As for retention that is down to content, whether you sell porn or baked beans.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

here's one: good post

Thanks. I'm going on holiday soon so will be quiet for a few weeks.

[tranza]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Thanks. I'm going on holiday soon so will be quiet for a few weeks.

so...enjoy your vacations

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

3% Photography skills
With todays digital cameras anyone with an IQ over 50 should be able to get the exposure and focus right.

Bingo. With today's cameras anyone yahoo who can tie their shoes in the dark can take a decent picture.

However I still think it takes a good photographer to take good pictures on a consistant basis.

[EroticySteve]

Great post.

However, beauty is relative. Using the Grace/Susanne example you're asking someone to differntiate which is better, a black Ferrari or a red Ferrari.

However, if you put either Ferrari up against a Ford. Most people will choose the Ferrari, unless they have a special connection to the Ford.

So when it comes to the women I think I disagree that how hot a woman is has very little to do with how she converts. In fact I think sometimes unique works better.

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by EroticySteve

Great post.

However, beauty is relative. Using the Grace/Susanne example you're asking someone to differntiate which is better, a black Ferrari or a red Ferrari.

However, if you put either Ferrari up against a Ford. Most people will choose the Ferrari, unless they have a special connection to the Ford.

So when it comes to the women I think I disagree that how hot a woman is has very little to do with how she converts. In fact I think sometimes unique works better.

exactly, 70% of the girls people on gfy go gaga over for do nothing for me

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by RocHard

Bingo. With today's cameras anyone yahoo who can tie their shoes in the dark can take a decent picture.

However I still think it takes a good photographer to take good pictures on a consistant basis.

true about the equipment - but it definitely takes a talent/skill/feel to get good stuff out of an 18 year old model who isn't really a model at all - first job is to get the girl enjoying herself, then good poses and composing shots that will turn men on. not many have those skills.

but - ya know - i can't think of many models who appear to be having less fun than Tawnee and look at her success - so number one is the model's look - if she's a star she's a star - and that's up to the surfers to decide who's a star.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RocHard

Bingo. With today's cameras anyone yahoo who can tie their shoes in the dark can take a decent picture.

However I still think it takes a good photographer to take good pictures on a consistant basis.

Maybe Photography skills was the wrong words, Camera skills could of been a better description. Good photographers have an eye for a picture that takes years to develope. Be they shooting flowers of porn.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by EroticySteve

Great post.

However, beauty is relative. Using the Grace/Susanne example you're asking someone to differntiate which is better, a black Ferrari or a red Ferrari.

However, if you put either Ferrari up against a Ford. Most people will choose the Ferrari, unless they have a special connection to the Ford.

So when it comes to the women I think I disagree that how hot a woman is has very little to do with how she converts. In fact I think sometimes unique works better.

Maybe comparing Grace and Susane was not the right choice, comparing a 8 with a 8.5. Comparing an 8 with a 2 might of beeb better way to illustrate the point.

exactly, 70% of the girls people on gfy go gaga over for do nothing for me

The only things that count is whether surfers will pay to see more of her.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Mutt

true about the equipment - but it definitely takes a talent/skill/feel to get good stuff out of an 18 year old model who isn't really a model at all - first job is to get the girl enjoying herself, then good poses and composing shots that will turn men on. not many have those skills.

but - ya know - i can't think of many models who appear to be having less fun than Tawnee and look at her success - so number one is the model's look - if she's a star she's a star - and that's up to the surfers to decide who's a star.

That was why I rated a pornographers skills and personality as important as the models looks and personality.

When someone expects to buy my skills for the same price they can buy the skills of some guy who picked up a camera 6 months ago I tell them to

Because if they don't know my content converts better than the other guys they are in the wrong business. If they do know it and just want me cheap they're in the wrong shop.

Incidently I was having dinner with another pornographer last night, we both had a good laugh over your statement that working for $500 a day was a good wage.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by tranza

so...enjoy your vacations

We intend to.

Turkey, 5 star hotel and hopefully lots of sun and good food.

I'm being filmed today for UK satelite TV, shooting a lesbian set, and then it's off to pack and start the holiday.

[com]

I'd say it's 25% photography skills, 15% photoshop skills, 10% location, and at MOST 50% beauty of the model... what else really matters?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by com

I'd say it's 25% photography skills, 15% photoshop skills, 10% location, and at MOST 50% beauty of the model... what else really matters?

You obviously have never done a lot of shooting. Every professional photographer of people will tell you they are part photographer, part nannie and part physcologist. Shooting porn it just becomes more so.

[TreasureBucks]

How about producing porn WITH ford cars?


I finaly got my new wheels on the stang....pics coming today

[CHMOD]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Some seem to think otherwise, but I doubt if the surfer spending $30 a month does.

There are many different elements that go to making a good porn set what I've done here is list what I think is important and given them a % of importance.

This is a personal view, but I welcome comments as always.

25% Models Beauty
Simple one really a Grace will convert better than a Susane. Nothing wrong with Susane and I love working with her, but Grace is better looking. Expect to pay more for these girls, but expect to earn more from them as well.

20% Pornographers experience
Over the years you learn more than how to get the exposure right. You learn how to control, direct and motivate different models, the most important tool in a pornographers skills. Models come to a shoot to earn money, usually with little intention of doing anything more than the minimum and no intention of fucking anyone, even if they are doing porn boy girl scenes. We have to make them look like they will fuck the world for a pizza. Also add to this his knowledge of the niche he's shooting.

15% Pornographers personality
Some guys with all the skills in the world just can't shoot porn, simply because the girls do not like him. They distrust him and he puts them on the defensive.

10% Models personality
This is essential, some girls are happier posing nude and for porn than others. Some think we are all perverts, or they should be in control or are just plain dull and bored by the whole thing. A few girls are excited by the whole porn posing thing and very willing, some are not and even on guard.

10% Quantity of work
A model and a shooter get bored after a few hours of this, it gets harder to motivate yourself and the models. By the end of a ten set shoot day the work is crap.

10% Shooting on the right day.
Ask your girlfriend what I mean by this if you do not know. There are days in a girls cycle when she is hornier, get her on that day and you get a better shoot.

4% Shooting the right scenario
Girls want to be portrayed as beautiful sex goddesses not as the slut next door. Shooting a girl in her fantasy will produce better work than doing something she does not like.

3% Photography skills
With todays digital cameras anyone with an IQ over 50 should be able to get the exposure and focus right.

3% Equipment
If the model walks in and see you have $10,000 worth of equipment you are going to get her attention and a different reaction than if you're shooting with a $300 camera her boyfriend uses.

I might have the % figures wrong because this is a personal view and I put it in my order of importance. But as I said I'm willing to listen to your thoughts.

So when you're buying porn think about what you delivering to the surfer. Something off a production line will not produce the same reactions as something crafted with skills.

So when you compare prices between an experienced professional and guy who's been shooting 12 months please ask yourself who will convert the best. If you don't think there's a difference between the two ask yourself if the surfer willing to spend $30 does.

Good spam.


After reading this, it tells me that you still don't know much of this industry even after all this time.

[Nydahl]

hey Charly you still drive that ford you had right?
so I gree with all above

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CHMOD

Good spam.

After reading this, it tells me that you still don't know much of this industry even after all this time.

Typical post GFY type first think, ...........

Why bother to think?

For someone who does not have a clue we seem to be making a lot of money. Would you like to tell me which content provider is making more?

[CHMOD]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Typical post GFY type first think, ...........

Why bother to think?

For someone who does not have a clue we seem to be making a lot of money. Would you like to tell me which content provider is making more?

I don't know.

But here are a couple of things wich I am sure of :

1- You don't know shit about paysites. Your post prooves it.
2- You are an average photographer (whatever you think) So is your work.
3- I.e. : These people : amazing content shoots much better content than you.
4- You should stop bragging.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Some seem to think otherwise, but I doubt if the surfer spending $30 a month does.

There are many different elements that go to making a good porn set what I've done here is list what I think is important and given them a % of importance.

This is a personal view, but I welcome comments as always.

25% Models Beauty
Simple one really a Grace will convert better than a Susane. Nothing wrong with Susane and I love working with her, but Grace is better looking. Expect to pay more for these girls, but expect to earn more from them as well.

20% Pornographers experience
Over the years you learn more than how to get the exposure right. You learn how to control, direct and motivate different models, the most important tool in a pornographers skills. Models come to a shoot to earn money, usually with little intention of doing anything more than the minimum and no intention of fucking anyone, even if they are doing porn boy girl scenes. We have to make them look like they will fuck the world for a pizza. Also add to this his knowledge of the niche he's shooting.

15% Pornographers personality
Some guys with all the skills in the world just can't shoot porn, simply because the girls do not like him. They distrust him and he puts them on the defensive.

10% Models personality
This is essential, some girls are happier posing nude and for porn than others. Some think we are all perverts, or they should be in control or are just plain dull and bored by the whole thing. A few girls are excited by the whole porn posing thing and very willing, some are not and even on guard.

10% Quantity of work
A model and a shooter get bored after a few hours of this, it gets harder to motivate yourself and the models. By the end of a ten set shoot day the work is crap.

10% Shooting on the right day.
Ask your girlfriend what I mean by this if you do not know. There are days in a girls cycle when she is hornier, get her on that day and you get a better shoot.

4% Shooting the right scenario
Girls want to be portrayed as beautiful sex goddesses not as the slut next door. Shooting a girl in her fantasy will produce better work than doing something she does not like.

3% Photography skills
With todays digital cameras anyone with an IQ over 50 should be able to get the exposure and focus right.

3% Equipment
If the model walks in and see you have $10,000 worth of equipment you are going to get her attention and a different reaction than if you're shooting with a $300 camera her boyfriend uses.

I might have the % figures wrong because this is a personal view and I put it in my order of importance. But as I said I'm willing to listen to your thoughts.

So when you're buying porn think about what you delivering to the surfer. Something off a production line will not produce the same reactions as something crafted with skills.

So when you compare prices between an experienced professional and guy who's been shooting 12 months please ask yourself who will convert the best. If you don't think there's a difference between the two ask yourself if the surfer willing to spend $30 does.

100% of all of that rambling was made up.

[Pete-KT]

thanks for the info paul

[ServerGenius]

It all depends on the niche you're trying to push....Most important in my opinion
is that you understand the niche you're trying to sell. I know guys that shoot
below average quality pictures with below average equipment....or better below
average anything......and still sell like crazy.......just because they understand
what they are selling.....and are able to catch the imagination of the surfers
that are into this niche....

[Bas]

Remember the famous Henry Ford slogan?:

"You can choose any color you want, as long as it is black."

Try to match this with content, and you are King Paul ;)

[eldominik]

Lol yeah right. Your content is good but no shit, it`s not the greatest in the world. But I don`t know your budget, and whats up with your paysite?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CHMOD

I don't know.

But here are a couple of things wich I am sure of :

1- You don't know shit about paysites. Your post prooves it.
2- You are an average photographer (whatever you think) So is your work.
3- I.e. : These people : amazing content shoots much better content than you.
4- You should stop bragging.

You don't know shit about pornography and if these other guys are so good, why are they not shooting for magazines on the consistant basis we are?

Too busy shooting set for $500 to shoot sets worth $3,000.

I'm not bragging just stating the truth.

Tell me where my post is wrong in regards to paysites, because at the moment you're saying nothing.

Or are you a "Throw as much hits at it in the hope some will stick guy"? After the traffic arrives your incoome depends mainly on two things, the design and the content. Get either wrong and all the traffixc in the world will just burn BW and get you some exit business.

It all depends on the niche you're trying to push....Most important in my opinion is that you understand the niche you're trying to sell. I know guys that shoot below average quality pictures with below average equipment....or better below average anything......and still sell like crazy.......just because they understand what they are selling.....and are able to catch the imagination of the surfers that are into this niche....

Very true and as I said my list is a personal guide. It'a all about catching the imagination of the viewer.

Lol yeah right. Your content is good but no shit, it`s not the greatest in the world. But I don`t know your budget, and whats up with your paysite?

Never said I was the best, just bloody good at what we do. The paysite is converting very nicely and earning money. Just not enough traffic, but when do you have enough?

[High Quality]

but its pretty similar to producing chevy.... heh

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You don't know shit about pornography and if these other guys are so good, why are they not shooting for magazines on the consistant basis we are?

Too busy shooting set for $500 to shoot sets worth $3,000.

cause we're in the biz since exactly 2 years - and started from zero. and we don't have the contacts that others built over 30 years of biz. simple as that.

remember eurowebtainment 2003 in berlin? you told us how bad the stuff was we had at that time (and you were right). guess we learned a bit.

i would never go and tell we're making the best of our situation - but we're improving. step by step. and we have patience, this is no quick adventure, we're here for the long run.

and honestly - i like having good relations with any other producer in this biz - and we don't envy anyone for his success. it's all in our own hands. maybe someday a magazine calls, maybe someday i find the telephone number myself. maybe they will buy from us - maybe not. who knows. we can live from what we do - and I didn't have to sell my car (although I had times when I thought that would be necessary). All is good.

Peace

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bas

Remember the famous Henry Ford slogan?:

"You can choose any color you want, as long as it is black."

Try to match this with content, and you are King Paul ;)

Yes but will it convert as well with the surfer?

IMO
The three main elements to this business are traffic, design and content.

Without traffic you have no one to show anything to.

Good new bought content with a good design has a better chance of getting accepted with people like Worldsex.

Once the surfer is looking at the gallery or what ever you use to send him to you it's down to content and design, words are content.

Then it's down to getting him to your site, now it's only about design and content. The better the content and design the better the conversions.

Last part is the sign up process.

Retention is all about content, he's in the site and you have to keep him happy while he's jerking off.

Now some people have problems telling porn from photgraphy and they opt for the method of throwing it up and constantly feeding it with traffic. They spend a lot on fmoney on banners for affiliates, time on boards, time spent keeping affiliates, all to keep the traffic flowing to a bucket that leaks.

Others can tell the diference and they are able to put up a single site or two with great content, design and the traffic follws, becasue these sites convert, retain and keep affiliates working. They spend less time and money on affilaites.

And some are able to do both. These are the real big guys. Hi Lensman.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

cause we're in the biz since exactly 2 years - and started from zero. and we don't have the contacts that others built over 30 years of biz. simple as that.

remember eurowebtainment 2003 in berlin? you told us how bad the stuff was we had at that time (and you were right). guess we learned a bit.

i would never go and tell we're making the best of our situation - but we're improving. step by step. and we have patience, this is no quick adventure, we're here for the long run.

and honestly - i like having good relations with any other producer in this biz - and we don't envy anyone for his success. it's all in our own hands. maybe someday a magazine calls, maybe someday i find the telephone number myself. maybe they will buy from us - maybe not. who knows. we can live from what we do - and I didn't have to sell my car (although I had times when I thought that would be necessary). All is good.

Peace

I have a lot of respect for you for coming up and you now know the diffenrece between pointing a camera at a nkaed girl and producing porn. RESPECT to you. If I had wanted to harm your business I would of told you your content was great and keep doing it exactly as you were.

You have to phone the magazines, they don't phone you. They have 10 times the work they need submitted, but will always look at someone knocking on their door.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I have a lot of respect for you for coming up and you now know the diffenrece between pointing a camera at a nkaed girl and producing porn. RESPECT to you. If I had wanted to harm your business I would of told you your content was great and keep doing it exactly as you were.

You have to phone the magazines, they don't phone you. They have 10 times the work they need submitted, but will always look at someone knocking on their door.

thank you - as well as I respect a lot what you have achieved over the years. and as i said: without your advise we wouldn't be here.

[MaxCandy]

yes, it is different from producing ford cars, the fact you ask scares me!