BAD BAD BAD - Outsourcing is geared toward high end jobs like programming and tax prep/CPA.

Those outsource bastards want us all to work low end paying jobs - if they can get away with it, those fuckers will do it.

Like I said, the average person in India is too poor right now to purchase our goods. Thats changing now, and in the last 2 years India's non-oil imports have raised by more then 30% per year.

And as far as things being cheaper to make here in the USA, Japan and Europe send alot of things over to the USA because we are more efficient at pumping them out. For example, in India the average worker may be able to make 5 widgets a day, but here in America, the same worker on a more efficient machine can pump out 50 widgets a day.

I can afford to pay 10x as much for the American worker, because I'm getting 10x the product daily.

So this "potential" is reality... it is what has happened and what is happening.

And for you to insinuate that these people affected by outsourcing end up working at Wal-Mart is ridiculous. Like you said, Wal-Mart is as low as you go, but its also a long way down with many stops along the way if you are eager to work. And Wal-Mart was growing and people were working there on shitty wages long before outsourcing was an issue, but thats a whole other bag of worms.

that's not enough. By the time the average indian person will be in position to afford the good of west we will not be around

unless you have plans to live for 200years

I don't give 1 flying fuck about what's good for my country......since my
country doesn't give a fuck about what's good for me either....If it's good
for me and my loved ones...then that's what I'll do. History has proven time
after time that that's what politics do aswell....so why can't I? :thumbsup

good post dynaspain

Thanks Soul_Rebel :winkwink:

I agree that the education system should be improved greatly, and funded better, but unrealized potential due to unfavorable circumstances has affected the entire world since the beginning of time, and that has nothing to do with outsourcing.

And the only regulation I would put on the companies who choose to outsource is that they provide the same benefits (medical, retirement, etc) to their outsourced workers that they would to their American workers (this should include any outsourcing companies that choose to do business in America).

There are McDonalds in India... isn't that one of our unaffordable "goods of the west". You think that an increase in money to Indian civilians doesn't increase the profits of McDonalds there?

The surge in imports to India will just make it a more attractive place for USA exporters to sell in, which means Indian money will be flowing into the USA.

And in the end, America has a lot more to offer India then India has to offer us...

There's no doubt that some of India's inhabitants are getting richer. That wasn't the point... the point is that the average indian salary (and indeed, the cost of living) are so much lower as to make the equalization path take on epic proportions, and that India is only one country among many that could be outsourced to. In fact, there are rumblings from people IN INDIA about people worrying that those new jobs will be further outsourced to even poorer countries (although I suspect such rumors to be injected into the work force to keep people dutifully grateful to be employed, etc).

I'd love to see a citation of this. Not saying that I don't believe you, but I've never come across anything that says a worker in the US is 10x more efficient than a worker in Europe due to some magical machine (that could be duplicated) or some special training (that could be exported). I'll assume that 10x is hyperbole for demonstration purposes... but I'd still like to see a citation where widgets are being produced in the US over, say, china... and why. I suspect in many of those cases, it's simply because it minimizes shipping costs. If so, then that's in line with what I predicted in an earlier posting: That oppressive shipping costs bourne of increased price in fuel will help equalize that pressure.

Quite a number of them will. Quite a number of them ARE. Have you looked at how many people wal*mart employs, lately? It's probably unknowable how many of those people have once had more useful, gainful employment... but I know at least 3 people offhand who've been forced to go down that road in recent times.

Yet I'm not saying that there's an absolute guarantee that an outsourced job equates to 2 new wal*mart employees ('cuz the wife, who had the luxury of tending to the homestead has been forced into the workplace to fight for her $172/wk net). I said that this inevitably leads to the <b>Wal*martization of the economy</B>, because the very nature of the movement of capital and labor in outsourcing syphons cash from the middle class (in jobs) and lower class (that buy the cheap product) to give to the outsourcees (in jobs, albiet low paying by our standards) and the corporation (and thence to the directors and boardmembers, in enormous bonuses and salaries).

Taken to its logical extreme, given a perfectly mobile workforce and a perfectly accessable market, the world would eventually 'settle out' into 2 strata... for which I borrowed from H.G.Wells' concept of the Morlocks and Eloi (and incorrectly attributed to Johnathon Swift. Bad me!) of a huge underclass toiling away purely to service the upper echelons. Of course in The Time Machine, the Eloi end up literally being lunch for the morlocks, not an unheard of consequence when one risks alienating a much larger (and angrier!) population for your own mean benefits.

My assertion is that this "Gods and Clods" scenario is bad for the planet as a whole, yet that's the direction we're moving in for lack of sufficient counterbalance so long as men with power consider Mammon and the gospel of Milton more important to please than the people they hold sway over.

For the record, if it HAS to end up this way, I sure as fuck don't want to be a Morlock, and I don't intend to be. :winkwink:

Let me see if I got this right.

You spend four years learning "high tech" skills in a college somewhere, you're now in debt up to your ears with student loans and you've just found out that your degree is essentially worthless in today's economy.

Call it arrogance if you want, but I think I just might be a little pissed off too.

Agriculture is the first thing that pops into my mind.

And regardless of globalization, almost all of the jobs out there require some measure of proximity to the company location (office), so this run to the bottom Wal-Mart stuff probably won't ever happen, and if it does, it won't be for many many years after we are dead.

Outsourcing adds to the problem by

a) increasing the need for retraining (to dramatic proportions, in some cases)

b) effectively reducing incomes due to actual removal of jobs (decreasing supply and driving down wages) or due to a 'atmosphere of fear' where employees are afraid to ask for raises, thus losing money in 'real' dollars while inflation keeps marching on... or sprinting on, in the case of fuel costs, medical bills, et al.

The heavy for-profit education system in north america is not geared to accept, nor effectively retrain, displaced workers as a result of these upheavals.

Yes, good people in bad situations will get the shaft. Outsourcing adds more weight to that.

Good luck with that. :thumbsup :winkwink:

Hell, there's growing numbers of domestic corporations that can't even provide the benefits they've pledged. Anyone here on a United Air pension? Not for long!

Yes, I'd be pissed off too, but I wouldn't go crying to my government trying to get them to make outsourcing illegal. I'd suck it up, deal with reality, and try to find out where the opportunities are for me now.

once quality of life improves and the good people of india get some money and suddenly think they deserve more per hour, the US companies will be out of there and moved on to the next country. they aren't going to want to pay employees more if they don't have to. not to mention safety regs that aren't in place in most third world countries and enviromental regs. once they come into play, its another reason for outsourced companies to jump ship. thats the whole reason they outsourced in the first place. in the end the only cares these companies have is whats good for them right now. i highly doubt they are looking 20 years down the road right now when it comes to such decisions. but hey, if profits increase this quarter, it looks good for investors.

We all gotta do what we all gotta do.

The CEO outsources to India because that's what is in his stockholders best interests. He's doing what he's gotta do.

The displaced worker accepts a shit job because that's what he's gotta do to feed his family.

The national government meanwhile is obliged to do what's in the best interest of the nation as a whole and if it can be conclusively demonstrated that outsourcing is bad for the nation, the government needs to deal with it.

We all gotta do what we all gotta do.

A dope trailer is no place for a kitty!

http://216.239.54.9/img/215/1162/640/bubbles.jpg

BlackCrayon so far I agree with you!

I don't care much for outsourcing, here is why!

My parents have a manufacturing company, not large 30 full time employees. My mom pays good wages, offers babysitting in the company, paid vacation, christmas bonuses, medical , and a good clean work enviroment (its factory work, trust me its nasty work if you don't take care of it). Her employees average stay is 10 years, she even has one lady who has worked for her since 1964 when she opened.

In 1976 the company "sourced" to my mom shipped 25% of the work to Japan, my mom had to lay off 2 girls

In 1980 50% of work which supposed to go to my mom went to Thailand

In 1989 75% of Work went to China and has stayed there ever since

Today 2005 my Mom has no longer any fulltime employees, she doesn't offer healthcare anymore, she has 9 part-time employees now. We keep telling her to just close but this company is her baby, she started it in out kitchen and was one of the biggest employeer in our town of than 2500 people.

So, wanna know what ever happend to all those workers?. I didn't keep track, but I know some went on welfare, not many jobs in a small town. I know one lady asked my parents for a loan for a doctor bill and if she could work it off..

Unless you are a small business owner you really don't see what outsourcing does to you. You can't see it. If you own Heinz Ketchup or Walmart, of course its cheaper to outsource. But you are selling in the USA, and the people here need the money to buy the stuff.

I don't care for outsourcing I saw what it did to my parents company and I can do without it. I try to buy stuff in the USA or at least manufactured here, to keep American's in business.

You forget that it's not only low level jobs that are being outsourced. The highest paying tech jobs are also being outsourced.

You're right, it puts more money into the company's pocket and makes the company stronger, and they may pay more taxes. This doesn't lead to hiring of more Americans. It leads to hiring of more outsourced higher level work at a fraction it would cost to hire high level american workers.

The economy will suffer because nobody except companies will be paying taxes because the average joe won't have a job because it is now overseas.

Is there anything we can do about it? No, not really. Maybe unions can try to stop it. But only Government regulation and intervention could stop it and that's unlikely to happen for a long time.

What may happen is that their will eventually come a levelling between the US and the countries (particularly China, and India) that it outsources to. Both economies will be basically on par because they need each other. When the economy and overall standard of living increases in China and India, outsourcing may no longer be saving the company money because workers over there will demand higher pay.

Who knows what the future holds.

Mike, Bush has already come out and said that he believes that some outsourcing is "good for the economy". So it seems to me that there will be no help as far as the current goverment is concerned. I'm curious as to how the democrats feel about the issue.

without outsourcing and cheap laber no industrial country would be what it is right now

I would like to say 2 things:

1- I currently live in Atlanta

2- See sig! We offer a better service then the Philippine guys and our price rocks!

Its bad for america yes...but its just natural progression. People are acting like this is something new? Its not....We now have the technology to be able to have actual employees in different parts of the world....But its no different then us switching where we trade with. If we stopped buying oranges from florida cuz they were cheaper in malaysia would people be as up in arms?

The problem with people hating on outsourcing is they have developed a "you owe me" mentality. By virtue of them living in the US, they are "owed" certain advantages/benefits. This is the same type of welfare mentality that is dooming the country.

Well put... people who don't go with the flow will be left behind.

maybe more local job will be often because of global trade....

example of this most product in southeast east are came from china which pissed off the 3rd world economy like vietnam , malaysia , philippines etc.....

i think people behind on the system will be study if global trades must have a limit like agricultural products...

:2 cents:

Outsourcing isn't all that bad. When clothing companies like The Gap get their shirts from China for $3 (as opposed to say $10 from within they US) and resell for $70 they can afford to make expensive commercials on TV and hire more high paid US marketers. If the marketing is successful the brand might do well in other wealthy countries. Meanwhile China is slowly building a middle-class that might want to by back some of those $3 shirts for $70.

Outsourcing creates better jobs at home by sending over the cheap ones. It has been going on for years only now some of the jobs being lost had 401(k)s. :2 cents:

Bingo, I think you hit it on the head. The question is though, now that America is a industrialized country, will it still help or just hurt?

What are your opinions on this?