50 :anon . .

Hey Choker. By the way that domain is our hosted gallery. I'm going to look into this right away and I'll tell you what the situation is.

HI everyone. Yesterday was a travel day.

I'm back now.

I've terminated his affiliate id. We owed him $64.97. He never hit his minimum. I'd be more than happy to send this to you Choker. Just let me know how :winkwink:

I just left Windermere....

Why arnt we Orlando folk having a get together dinner?

There ya go.... Conversion weren't what he expected!!!

I like the concept of "Money Back Guarantee" on buying traffic.

Wonder how many webmasters buy traffic for FHGs? Prolly many???? I have never tried it. Am I missing something here?

He actually sent very little traffic to us. He converted at 1:256. I don't think all the choker traffic he bought was sent to us.

That is EXACTLY how a situation should be handled like this. Kudos to Shap! :)

DH

Class act baby :thumbsup

Guess I need to reread choker's post. Thought it went to you?? Anyway 1:256 is good. Conversions on tour I assume?

Thats the way!

When we had that stolen credit card ring buying passes (all with MVC), we contacted all the prorgrams and hosts..we were basically told to fuck off. Affilate accounts are still open, sites are still loading and proxy IP's are still active. Fucking losers.

Anyway, Choker. The traffic was prolly bought with a stollen card and the charge back was prolly made when the owner of the card saw the purchases.


All fraud purchases were coming from the proxies below.

80.77.80.0 to 80.77.89.255

block those IP by adding this to your htaccess

<Limit GET HEAD POST>
order allow,deny
deny from 80.77.80.0-80.77.89.255
allow from all
</LIMIT>

thx,
Ray

You are a class act sir. Give the money to the red cross or something. kudos

Choker, I was just reading your board before and remembered seeing this post:

http://chickenboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=2846

Maybe it's the same guy? Looks like wasn't 100% sure if those charges were from you, perhaps if you didn't respond he just decided to be done with it and contest it...

LOL, don't get me started about MVC. Using them was the biggest mistake I have made for years. I am out thousands and thousands and it all could have been prevented very easily.

Nope not the same guy.

Thanks :thumbsup

He replied to my email with a long reply that they didn't recognize the charge and disputed it. But they are trying to make it right. I have no idea if he is BSing or not. He didn't know how to contact you so I told him to hit you up on your board. I let him know that his twistyscash account and money earned is on hold until this is settled. If you guys settle this I'll re-activate him. If not too bad for him.

When I replied the first time my email went thru, then the second one it bounced (he's on a yahoo email). Hopefully this will be all settled for you. :thumbsup

I am getting nothing but excuses from him. Granted My Virtual Card is total shit, they do not even bother disputing when someone charges back, hell they even refund on thier end without checking with the merchent, and until recently would not even advise the merchent when a refund occured.

Anyway, he is refusing to pay the $45 chargeback fee, saying it is my fault his credit card statement said ecopay instead of chokertraffic. He claims he resent the $100 to my account but that has not happened, and as far as I can tell MVC does not re apply a charge that was charged back anyway.

Yup post in craigs list lol

When someone use MVC it tells him that the charge will say it's from ecopay. If he didn't read that it's his fucking problem not yours. Yes, MVC sucks in a way that when you have several rebilling accounts with them you can't really tell what is what but you sure don't just charge them back without knowing what or who you are charging back. Once an amount is charged back it's not reversed upon your request either, you'll have to charge your card over again but the prob is MVC won't accept that card anymore so maybe thru another processor.

Also now, when you call your CC issuing bank to chargeback an amount they will gladly provide you with the number of the merchant charged your card first and advice you to call them and all you gotta do is call that number and find out why they charged your card. if you don't, you actually know very well what you are doing specially when you also have to go thru the trouble of signing and notarizing an affidavit sent by your bank and send it back to your bank. Oh well, you'd done all that but now when you are exposed on a wm board you try to find an excuse to cover your ass. hey choker, can I do the same and get away? j/k.

Shap, that 65 bucks is from intial sales prolly? if so, it may grow to $145 thru rebills? Please give the money to choker or a charity when it does unless ofcourse he agrees to pay choker $145 back :2 cents:

Exactly. The guy is quite funny actually, it's one excuse after another. Should I post our conversation logs?

Still no payment from this guy Shap, he went from the denial stage to the blaming it on My virtual card to it's illegal for me to report him for credit card fraud stages. I do believe he carelessly charged this back not knowing what it was, even though it was explained to him three times during the payment process that Ecopay is what would be on the charge. That's all fine and dandy. Instead of just saying "I'm sorry, here is the $100 and the $45 you got fined", he argues and argues and argues about it. I'm about ready to call the Sherrifs office and report this as fraud. Most likely they will arrest him since he is in the same county. The others I have reported before were out of state and the depties had to coordinate with other police. In this case the guy lives in the same county as me so I think they will arrest him. This is a shame.

Fraud sucks but unfortunately programs can't get involved in a matter between an affiliate and his traffic sources, because it is usually a case of "he said she said". If Walmart bought from a supplier and then the manufacturer complained to Walmart that the supplier never paid, what would Walmart do about it? Nothing.

Your best course of action is to report fraudsters on the boards and of course don't sell to them again. I also suggest requiring your clients to sign a CC form and fax/email it back to you.


B

Exactly which part of your TOS did he break ?

Its shady to take someone's $$$ like this.

Makes me think twice about sending traffic to your program a program owner should never get into he said she said crap.

Choker can call the cop's sue him or whatever he need to do to get his $$$ this is not something shap should be involved in.

Following this logic what you are saying is that a program owner should not care if the traffic sent by the affiliate was fraudulently obtained? So it is not the program owners concern how the affiliate got the traffic? If so then a program owner can't can a affiliate for spamming either. As far as your wallmart example, well you are comparing apples to oranges. If the supplier charged back on the manufacturerer then yeah Walmart would be a accesory to a felony if they did nothing. Once you charge back on a purchase that you recieved you are committing credit card fraud and theft. Walmart is not about to sell stolen property. Go buy a car on a credit card, charge it back and see how fast you get arrested for theft.

god, I never knew that SmokeyTheBear is posting such intelligent comments :thumbsup, always though he's just hacking the forum! ;)

(hopefully I didn't mix it up with another bear...) :thumbsup

if an affiliate has bought traffic by fraudulant means he's simply a fraud and sooner or later he will defraud the sponsor he's pushing too.. just a matter of time so canning the affiliate will be cutting an unecessary risk. if people in this industry don't stand up for eachother they will only be encouraging the bad apples to stink up the entire basket :2 cents:

Thanks :winkwink: i try :)

Seems like my intuition was right also :) ( well at least partly right anyways )

I have bought from you several times, and never has an probelms with the traffic, and it is pretty good traffic. So I guess that he just wanted to be a cheap ass.

This may be true , but its important to know all the details first..

Like i said, if this guy had his card hacked and didn't recognize the charge and charged back, is it fair that several other sponsors simply "take" his money ?

Its important for the industry to share information on cheaters/fraudsters , but its equally important to make sure you have all the information first.

this sounds like the prevailing theory so far i think :)

He admits to making the payment. He claims he did not recognize the name on the charge so he charged back. He admits to all this, but refuses to pay me the $100 he charged back plus the $45 fine My Virtual Card put on me for this. He says because his credit card statement said Ecopay (MVC) instead of Chokertraffic that it is all my fault and I am shit out of luck.

As far as other sponsors taking someones money that stole from someone else? If you bought traffic from IE Ravo sent it to me to get paid for it, then charge back on Ravo then HELL yes I will take your earnings on my end and give them to Ravo. I have done this more than once. I will not allow anyone to use me to wash stolen money. Fuck that.

Thanks, and I always refund unspent money with no questions asked. If you don't like my product I will refund what is left. Just don't wait until every hit is delivered then want a refund, it does not work that way. LOL

i hope you nail this guy to the wall but what shap did was wrong.

does not matter to me i dont send him or you traffic i only buy from you once in awile so it does not concern me too much.

hahahahha that would be great

Now we know all that . but when this thread started we didnt know that yet , i'm just saying we should be carefull we have all the info first before blackballing people :)

Don't get me wrong i would feel the same way ( although there would be more sharp objects involved :) )

Shap says he didnt send the traffic to him though ( i think ? ) , i have no problem if someone charged back for an advertising campaign and wanting the money back from the company he was promoting , and i dont even have a problem with them directly paying you his money . I just have a problem with everyone else taking/seizing this guys money without first knowing the details.. In all fairness it looks like the guy was just an amateur who didnt spend his money wisely , and got pissed off , stupid thing to do , but doesnt look like he is a career fraudster either, he just doesnt understand that what he did was fraud. As mentioned i think first and foremost you should have him charged criminally , because its fraud. Then work out restitution after :) Part of his sentance may be to pay you back the money he charged back , then you will have his money and shap's money :)

Anyways , good to hear there is some resolution anyways :)

Hi Sandman. Here's the situation.

#1 this guy signed up and left out important parts of his Twistyscash application. IE HIS FIRST NAME.

#2 it appears this guy may have tried to commit fraud against another company. I'm not sure if you have seen the recent FTC reports if not here is the situation. The FTC has established that Affiliate program owners are as GUILTY as the affiliate for the crimes an affiliate commits regarding the traffic sent to their program. That being said any person that commits fraud is a liability to TwistysCash and all of our affiliates.

If he did commit fraud against choker what is there to say he won't fraud us. Running a $100/signup promo I have to be careful of this. That is one of the downsides of running HUGE payout promos, you attract the hit and run fraud webmasters. Controlling fraud is the key to being able to paying our hard working honest affiliates the money they deserve.

On my end I've been involved in this resolution from the beginning. As the owner of TwistysCash I feel it is my responsibility to TwistysCash affiliates to find out if this guy is a fraud or not. If he is a fraud I have to get rid of him and his traffic from my program. If he isn't then everybody goes home happy.

His account has been put on hold. Payments are being witheld. Once we feel confident that this person has not sent fraudulent traffic to TwistysCash everything will be set back to normal. I've emailed him at least a dozen times in the past few days. He is aware of this and understands the importance of it.

Now if I'm out of line for doing that? I guess that's too bad on me. That's the way we are running things. I do not support scammers.

Btw i realise from my original post it may seem like i cancelled him and was throwing his money around. That is the furtherest thing from the truth. As soon as I saw this post the first thing I did was email him. I've been in contact with him and Choker for the past 36 hours working to get this resolved. His account is on hold as our his funds. I would never ever cancel an affiliate's account based on what someone else said. I would however terminate an account for life of a known scammer.

all you needed to say was the #1 if he fucked up with personal info can him everything else in irrlevant to me at least. :)

Bingo. He is a newbie. Got in over his head. Thought the adult industry was easy money and found out the expensive way that it isn't.

My post may have been big tough and irrational the truth is it isn't how things went down. I give people the benefit of the doubt and I research a situation. This guy has made me less than $75 and I've spent waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on this. It would have been easier to pay him and turn a blind eye. I just care too much to let little things like this slide.

My wife will be the first to tell you I'm TERRIBLE at communicating LOL. My initial post should have read "Hey Choker, I'm going to email this guy and see what's up. Hopefully we'll get this all worked out. In the meantime I've put his account on hold."

Bump for an interesting thread, any more news?

It might be morally right, but I don't see how it's legally right. Party A claims Party B owes them money, so Party C just pays party A on behalf of Party B without permission or even proof. That can't be legal.

well, charging back after recieving merchandize is not "legal" either and neither is trying to scam a sponsor :( You don't know if party A showed proof to party C.. even after party C told you that he's been communicating with party A closely you are still assuming no proof was shown to Party C by party A. So kindly take the ABC and shove it man! :winkwink:

If you read my later replies you'll see what actually happened.

Photo Greg said what a lowlife this guy is.


and he said to say hi to you choker, he's sipping pina colada's on the beach

Many of my prior correspondances in reference to Shap has proven hime to be a "pecker head moron bitch boy" ... I have repeately tried to ICQ him with no reply and no email responses either. So if anyone deals with him look out you will be the next dissapointed soul. This guy needs to be publically humiliated in the worst way.

You know you've never emailed or icqed me. Shap at twistys.com email me right now and let me know what caused your hard on for me.

Chris what's your beef with me? You are fris' brother right? Why are you so pissed at me?

The funny thing is back in January I offered you $10,000 and you turned it down and ignored the request because you had been posting lies. Everybody knows I'm a good guy and I keep my word. Email me and let's make this right. You know for a fact that I emailed and icqed you yesterday without a reply from you. Besides closing down the BBL board what else did i do that has upset you like this?