power182

He is right, the Mustangs are over rated. The EVO's are hot but they will get smoked off the line, no torque. Thats the problem with all small engines they need high RPMs to go fast but thats why they have six gears so you can keep them close to the red.

KMR Stitch

You call that fucking proof? Lmao.. Time slips vs timeslips = proof

Mustang didn't even want to waste his gas on that POS

PenisFace

Haha!!! Typical reply from a "my 13 second V8 is king" enthusiast.

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EroticySteve

V-Tech as in Virginia Tech. It's the car that parents get their kids when they send them off to a good State school like Virginia Tech.

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EroticySteve

That said, you can't go wrong with a Honda. Good practical, cheap and efficient transportaiton that is crazy reliable.

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Veterans Day

What are you showing me, a 4 wheel drive car? Thats reallly exciting. ALL imports are absolute shitbox dogs without a power adder. No turbo = pathetic

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zentz

damn. thats one hell of a car!

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PenisFace

Welcome to the modern car world, where it takes ingenuity to make hp, not throwing in a 350ci v8 that makes 250 hp. Anyway, now that it's been confirmed that a "shitbox" 2 liter inline 4 easily did away with a blown mustang cobra, you're grabbing desperatly for any argument to backup your big inneficient V8's. It's okay, you can come out of the corner you backed into, no one will laugh.

Edit: Sure, forced induction is pathetic... That must be why the worlds fastest drag cars use it!

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KMR Stitch

Fine, I will bolt on a Vortech super charger change my rear end 4:10 and change the upper intake manafold. as well as the throttle to to 90mm. I can always do some head work also

Total cost 10,000.00 For a grand total of 27,000.00 for my Car


I will be running in the mid to high 10's

KMR Stitch

Don't worry guys I am not offended by imports I am an import also!! Born in Canada

PenisFace

The same could be said for any other car. Buy an early 90's honda, 2.2 liter prelude engine stroked to 2.5 liters, build it to run 10's for 20 grand...

Hell you could build a geo metro to run 10's if you were so inclined.

Edit: And now that I've mentioned it, a 10 second geo metro would be an excellent way to piss people off

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KMR Stitch

You wouldn't be able to run 10's.

FWD is a mother fucker

Veterans Day

Look kid I been building motors for 15 years now and have seen it all. We love tearing you kids a new asshole on the southside of chicago on saturday night. Bring those bad blown chinese shitboxes out for some school lessons on big inch natural american iron.


Oh this ones gonna be a blast when finished, all motor little boy, the worse part about it, is that it will be in a 72 Pinto
Nothing ingenous here

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KMR Stitch

ohhh thats sexy =) I know a lot about my engine but not others...that isn't double carbs on top is it?

PenisFace

There's quite a few street driven Honda's running 10's, and even one or two into the 9's.

10 seconds

10 seconds

low 11 seconds

Not exactly street driven.. but.. 8 seconds

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Tylo

9's enough said! There are people that like foreign cars and there are people that like American cars. Its a battle that will go on forever trying to change peoples minds on what they like.

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KMR Stitch

THE Point I am trying to make... In order to get a 10 sec honda or 9 second honda.. You need to invest 60,000.00 into a 10,000.00 CAR

Pound for Pound Dollar for Dollar The SS Camaro has the best bang for the buck

quoted from Car and Driver.

KMR Stitch

Do you see the goofy ass tires in the front. FWD cars will never be able to compete with RWD. Getting a Honda civic to the 10's and paying 60K cash.. If I put that into my SS I would be running in the 7's with dual parachute packs. Tubbed out tires and a blower

PenisFace

Woah watch it there, you almost tripped over your own ignorance... again. And congrats, its naturally aspirated. Uh... does that actually have any relevance to anything that was said in this thread? I don't see how because you can make more power NA, it somehow makes me a "little boy". Congrats, you just spent a ton more on the buildup than you would have if you had simply supercharged it. Ingenious is not stuff a v8 into a pinto, ingenious is stuffing a Toyota straight six into a 63 Nova.

The guy doing it is motivated by essentially one thing. He feels that if V8 guys get so worked up over something that is no concern to them, and that since they make it their sole goal in life to troll on japanese car message boards, he's going to give an American classic the reliability it always deserved by dropping in a Japanese engine, all the while saving tons of gas.

Finally, a reliable American car!

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PenisFace

60k to get into the 10's? More like 20-30 depending on how new your car is and whether or not you're a pay to play ricer.

Edit: Sport Compact Car (which has gone downhill recently, unfortinutly) build a "budget boost" honda crx. They paid something like $1,000 for the car, $1,000 for the turbo parts, went to the track and did low 11's.

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pornguy

I drive a Ford F150 because I WANT TO. I go sick of having a nice car, and some asshole fucking it up. Lots of people have cars because they like them.


And trust me, I can afford almost any car I want.

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KMR Stitch

Still even 30,000.00 to get into the 10's

You know what I could do with 30,000 in my car? I also have the Cubic Inches to work with. I can even stroke it out. I would walk any honda any day.

Veterans Day

Like I said, all motor imports = pathetic. They make no power what so ever unless blown. Face it you guys cant make the power with out a power adder, thats downside to the rice. Let me know what the bill is for a years worth of cv joints

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CE_BigB

uh... HOT ROD Magazize stated FOX BODY MUSTANG
Best bang for buck

BIG B
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KMR Stitch

It went into the track as a POS and it leaves the track as a POS.


The fast n furious movie gets me everytime when they raced the Mucle cars... No fucking way they won lol

IceMaster

Im happy with my 150hp civic vti. Its old but i like it.

iwantchixx

they used to have a flash interface on the site up until last night that featured that black SI. I think it's by special order. It was 25k. It was 193 hp or 197 hp, I can't remeber. Only reason I was able to get this pic was because I saved it from a few days ago.

PenisFace

Again, you're displaying your ignorance by claiming cars that need forced induction are pathetic. Top fuel dragsters are totally pathetic, I agree! Funny you should mention it, while several companies do make aftermarket cv joints and such, not many guys use them. In the forced induction forum on Honda-tech.com, most of the guys running high hp would agree that the stock honda pieces are fine so long as you launch properly, and dont drop the clutch from 9000 everytime you move off from a light. That being said, if you're so inclined to drop the clutch more than is needed, some aftermarket pieces will last forever.

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iwantchixx

i said LOOKS.

dont u read?

iwantchixx

u know wut i meant heh

iwantchixx

but it will outlast everything else on the road

Veterans Day

Ya the comparison of a 7000 hp top fuel motor is similar to a 2 litre honda No blower honda = worthless

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PenisFace

Piece of shit or not, it weighs nothing, was dirt cheap (kind of like those piece of shit 80's mustangs that are so popular, right?), was fast, reliable, and made tons of torque, as they were still using the D series engine, which is far more torquey than most of the motors guys are currently using in high hp honda's.

And don't even mention "the movie". Not only does the fast and the furious horribly represent guys who actually like going fast, it's also a really shitty movie.

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CE_BigB

[QUOTE=smack]MUSTANG = DICK EATER


get a proper car.


Ahh.. talk your smack and stroke your penisface all you want...
you ricer lovers crack me up...
you better go play another round of Need for Speed or watch your
Fast and Furious DVDs...

Meanwhile.. Im gonna go drive a real ground pounding, road racing FIVE POINT OOOOH....
and bet your ass that no Dick Eatin Mitsu will beat me home...

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KMR Stitch

Comparison Tests
Muscle Car Comparison Test
Plenty of Bang, But the Buck Stops There

No muscle car test could ever be complete without mention of the two perennial favorite combatants, the Chevy Camaro and Ford Mustang. This pair has been pitted against each other since the beginning of the pony-car era itself, so continuing the tradition to include the current offerings only makes sense. Except that most automotive testers usually compare cars of similar performance levels, and in this case, that wasn't possible.

Let us explain. A few years back, to get an SS version of the Z28 Camaro you had to have your Chevy dealer check the "SS RPO" box on your new vehicle order form. Chevrolet would then build your Z28 to order at the St. Therese factory in Canada, and drop-ship the brand-new Z28 out to a shop down the road called SLP (for Street Legal Performance), owned by noted GM tuner Ed Hamburger.

SLP would add all the extra performance goodies in its SS package (licensed to and sold by Chevrolet as a regular production option), and then send the car back to Chevy for delivery to the selling dealer. SLP also did most of the marketing on the SS, so Chevy didn't normally order SLP's cars for its journalist test fleet. SLP's own press fleet was limited to a single car or two, so auto writers had to wait in line before getting an SS. Because the SS model was factory-shipped, few people knew -- or even cared -- about this little performance detour to SLP.

On the other hand, the hottest Mustang -- save for some exotics sold by tuners Kenny Brown and Steve Saleen -- was (and still is) the factory-built SVT Cobra developed by the guys at Ford's Special Vehicle Team. While they're available only through SVT-certified Ford dealers (about 700 of the better than 4,200 Ford stores in North America are SVT dealers), Cobras come down the same assembly line as more mundane Mustangs. And despite being a limited-edition model (about 10,000 per year), Cobras were made available to journalists across the country.

iwantchixx

It's a reliable car that drives well. I'd never get a neon, That's just junk that spends more time in the shop thatn anything else. A civic lasts. Period. I'd rather buy a civic than an american vehicle any day.

KMR Stitch

Then things changed. A couple of years ago, Chevy bought the rights to SLP's package and took the SS "in-house," meaning it's built solely at the F-body factory and marketed by Chevrolet itself. Consequently, there are plenty of SS Camaros around to test. And this year, Ford's redesigned-for-'99 Cobra was found to have some engine parts that were not up to spec, causing the motors not to make the advertised 320 horsepower. Since May, all '99 SVT Mustang Cobras have been pulled from Ford press fleets across the country until a fix is completed. Meaning, no vehicle loans to journalists for road tests of any kind this summer.

So we decided to go ahead and pit Chevy's fire-breathing, 320-horse V8 Camaro Z28 SS against Ford's mainstream Mustang GT, which makes a mere 260 horses from its much smaller V8. Not fair, you say? Maybe not, but in reality it's your only purchase choice as of this writing. Ford's current hold on SVT Cobras includes the sale or delivery of all 1999 cars in stock, so the Mustang GT and Camaro SS are, indeed, the hottest versions of their respective nameplates that you can actually buy right now. Besides, the standard Z28 -- which IS the Mustang GT's direct competitor -- already owns a whopping 45-horse advantage over its Ford counterpart, so what's another 15 ponies among enemies?

Let's face it, ever since GM replaced the old L98 350 V8 with first the LT1, and more recently the LS1 5.7-liter, the F-body Camaro/Firebird twins have owned the pony-car performance crown. And ever since Mustang moved away from the venerable 5.0-liter V8 in 1996 for the 4.6-liter modular overhead-cam engine family, Ford fans have been taking it on the chin at the stoplights. But for those of you thinking you can stop reading right now because you've got the outcome of this test pretty much figured out already -- well, you've been reading far too many buff books.

The buff-book writers will tell you the Camaro SS simply spanks the bejabbers out of any Mustang in every performance category. Duh! So who honestly thinks the 60-horse advantage an SS has on a GT wouldn't show up in the acceleration numbers? But our SS (admittedly a fairly tired press car) proved only a few ticks quicker than the Mustang in our zero-to-60 mph tests and less than a half-second faster in the quarter-mile. And while the Camaro exhibited marginally better grip on the skidpad, the Ford outperformed the Chevy in our 60-to-zero braking tests and its handling proved more predictable out on the racetrack. Oh, did we mention our GT stickered for nearly $4,000 less than the SS?

That's not to say the Camaro didn't perform well, for its numbers were in pure muscle-car territory. For that it can thank the LS1 engine, which -- as it is for Corvette -- is the heart and soul of the SS. As our testers put it, "the LS1 is the paradigm of a muscle-car engine. ... Grunt can be found from 1,000 rpm up to redline." Another wrote, "Gobs of torque that you can feel in every gear." Still another, "True muscle-car power." Indeed, we found this award-winning motor amazingly flexible, turning out a notoriously fat band of torque that would be the envy of many of the famed muscle cars of yesteryear. These days, few production V8s can outmuscle an LS1.

Our SS also came equipped with the Borg-Warner T-56 six-speed manual, the same heavy-duty tranny found in Corvettes and Vipers. Some staffers felt its second-to-fourth gear "skip-shift" feature was annoying, but others noted that spirited driving deactivates the emissions function, so it wasn't a problem. Nearly all our testers noticed vast amounts of driveline shake and shudder emanating right up through the baseball-sized shift knob. And most weren't fond of the car's clutch action, best described as feeling "heavy going in, and loose coming out." But we discounted some of that because not all F-bodies we've driven have exhibited that problem.

Outside, the SS gained high marks from most of us for its swoopy styling, clean, rakish stance and purposeful lines. Muscle cars are supposed to look mean, and this one screams its sex appeal, right down to its functional hood scoop. But the inside was not winning many friends. The Camaro is more difficult to get into and out of than the taller, more upright Mustang. With the SS sitting so low to the ground, you kind of plop down into the rather flat seats and drive in somewhat of a reclining position. Back seats and a trunk aren't big selling points for muscle cars -- and the Camaro is no exception. The back seats are tiny, and the cargo hold is deep but quite small for a hatchback car.

Interior design came in for less discussion than its execution, thanks to some intelligent ergonomics. But when it came to the look and feel inside, driver comments ranged from "cheesy materials abound," to "there's a total lack of refinement in here." Assorted squeaks and rattles and large amounts of tire and road noise booming off the rear hatch backlight sure didn't add to any illusions of build quality. But that's of little consequence to speed freaks.

Yet perhaps the biggest disappointment about the Camaro SS was its ride. Its chassis features upper and lower control arms in front, which keep the tires in better contact with the road than the more popular MacPherson struts. And its live rear axle is not only located by traditional trailing links, but by a special long torque arm and a Panhard rod added in for good measure. With stiff coils and front-and-rear antiroll bars, the SS is known for some amazingly flat cornering ability on a smooth racetrack.

The problem is, we were testing it on the challenging, undulating surfaces of The Streets of Willow race circuit. And our on-road evaluation had wound us through some tricky canyon two-lanes north of Los Angeles. In both instances, the Camaro's suspension was hard-pressed to afford a compromise between ride and handling. Most drivers found it downright twitchy at the limits, and some noted the car would bump-steer in cobbled fast turns.

Reading the copious notes of our testers would have you believe they were willing to overlook the Camaro's shortcomings in favor of its intoxicating power and give the nod to the SS over the Mustang. But tallying up their evaluation score sheets showed the Ford racked up more overall points than its more powerful Chevy rival. And that's EXACTLY how you, the consumers, have been voting with your wallets for the past several years.

The fact is -- power and performance be damned -- the Mustang has not only been outdistancing the Camaro on the sales charts by tens of thousands of units each year, but for 1999 it will have outsold both the F-body cars combined by a 2-to-1 margin! So even though the SS is wickedly fast, today's consumers seem to prefer a muscle car that can balance its racetrack abilities with some real-world functionality on the street. Somehow, the buff-book boys overlook that every time.

Funny thing, too, is that while Mustang has been winning the sales war, the enthusiast press has been trumpeting the Camaro (and sister Firebird) as the best performance value on the face of the planet, the most bang for the buck, the most go for the dough -- all thanks to its low base MSRP. But this year, the GT's base price is actually cheaper than the Z28 when you factor in the delivery charge. And we suggest you check those "as tested" prices the next time you read a buff-book Camaro vs. Mustang comparo. You'll find that more often than not, even the high-end SVT Cobra comes out a few thousand dollars less than a comparably equipped SS. A low base price doesn't mean much if the things most people want and buy are extra-cost options. Maybe it's time you look elsewhere for the real value story.

The way we figure it, the nearly $4,000 difference in price between our Mustang GT and Camaro SS works out costing you about $1,000 for each tenth of a second advantage on the dragstrip. If that sounds like a powerful bargain to you, then the Chevy is your clear choice. But if some of your car's muscle needs to be spent as a daily driver, then the Mustang makes living with its performance compromises a little easier to deal with.

PenisFace

When viewing a 7000hp top fuel dragster to a 1000hp 2 liter civic, yeah, its pretty similar in that both engines are pushed 5 miles past the point they should have blown up at...

And what about the Honda NSX? No blower, 280 hp, high 12's completely stock. Not only that, it outhandles lambo's and ferrari's.

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PenisFace

The problem with this, is that the camaro and firebird were only ever sold in the United States and canada, which leads me to believe it was the american and canadian press that gave the camaro the best performance value on the face of the planet... And two countries don't exactly represent the entire planet

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KMR Stitch

The NSX is a V-6 and RWD 2 seater

With a Retail price tag about $60,000.00

CE_BigB

The NSX is a V6 yes
but its AWD AWS

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PenisFace

It's worth the money, in my opinion. It proves you dont need big hp to go fast in a straight line, and that you don't need to spend 250k on a ferrari to go around corners fast.

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KMR Stitch

Really I didn't know that.. I know the 3000GT VR-4 was AWD AWS but the other models wern't.

I thought the 91-94 nsx models didn't have it but the 96+ had them

PenisFace

The NSX started with a 3 liter v6, which was eventually bumped up to 3.2 liters in 95 I believe it was. It's a mid-engine RWD v6.

The Skyline has AWD with rear wheel steering, however...

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KMR Stitch

Dude, 60,000.00 and I am buying a Dodge Viper.

Think about the pussy to $ ratio

NSX = little pussy not many chicks know what that is

Dodge viper = Massive pussy even though might not be the best car.

lol

KMR Stitch

Sooo sexy

Veterans Day

Quite unfortunate they stopped making that car Wow a 13 second car on the street, thats an accomplishment

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EroticySteve

Speed alone is only part of it.

However, there is no replacement for displacement.

The Asian racers don't like to hear this because they are often at a displacement loss.

However, efficiency is the key too. A small i-4 with a power adder is using it's displacement much more effectively than a 350ci small block. However, if efficiency were the constant, displacement would always win if the power/weight ratios were also equal.

Whether you like imports or not they do have power/weight ratio much better than many stock domestic cars.

What does a stock 2000 Civic Si run in weight? 2200 lbs? With a 170hp VTEC engine you're looking at a pretty zesty power weight ratio for a car that was $18k when new.


That said, I only like me European imports that do the power, safety and handling thing all very well with little need for aftermarket upgrade.

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If I payed 60,000 for a car, I'd buy a car that was the best there is for the money. When buying a car, I dont think about the babe magnet ratio, I think about which car will give me the best performance for the money. A viper will go quick in a straight line, but its an absolute dog around the curves. It may get the ladies looking, but I'm a car enthusiast because I love cars, not because I love cars that women will give me head just to get a ride in.

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KMR Stitch

Then You would get a C6 Vette. Thats everything you just said