I am glad that gas prices are sky rocketing ... may they continue to rise ...

[jawanda]

It is obviously going to take something monumental like this to force us Americans to reconsider our ways. You can be proud of your "right" to drive a hummer all you want, but when gas hits $6-$8 per gallon, hopefully you will think twice.

I have a lot of friends who are constantly fretting about "peak oil", and although I am genuinely concerned about the situation, I truly believe that greed and capitolism got us into this mess, and it will most likely get us out.

Skyrocketing gas prices are just the beginning, but they are most definitely a step in the (obvious, natural) right direction. Especially since they are going up now for reasons other than true world shortage, it is like a little taster for us and hopefully will spur even more people into action (consumers buying hybrids, companies pushing energy-efficient products to the market more quickly as the demand grows overnight, etc) and make us question our ways a bit.



-Phil

[dready]

I agree 100%... This is just a taste of things to come. We best get used to it while we still have time.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Rinaldo]

Is this effecting gas prices world wide?

[dready]

Originally Posted by Rinaldo

Is this effecting gas prices world wide?

Big time.

[jawanda]

Originally Posted by Rinaldo

Is this effecting gas prices world wide?

I haven't heard many numbers about overseas gas prices, but I would imagine, based on the law of supply and demand, that it would have some effect on global gas prices.



-Phil

[Rinaldo]

Originally Posted by jawanda

I haven't heard many numbers about overseas gas prices, but I would imagine, based on the law of supply and demand, that it would have some effect on global gas prices.



-Phil

well it didn't close the refineries any where else guys, it just closed them here,
If it had cut the oil supply I'd understand but all a refinery does is take oil and make gas... so africa and europe shouldn't be effected.

if it doesn't change prices world wide then the us has a big problem, if it did then it's all relative and we'll make it out of this just fine

[dready]

The price of oil has hit nearly $70 a barrel.. yes that affects the entire world. This is just the beginning of things to come as demand continues to exceed supply.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Neal]

To answer jawanda

In the UK they recon that petrol will hit around $2.00 per litre within the next 4 - 6 weeks..

Might take up walking from now on..

[rebel23]

there is no such thing as peak oil it is refinery capacity in the United States that causes the price to rise, there is plenty of oil.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by dready

The price of oil has hit nearly $70 a barrel.. yes that affects the entire world. This is just the beginning of things to come as demand continues to exceed supply.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

that is very funny. there is plenty of oil, the trouble is the United States cannot refine it. the Saudis even offered to build refineries in the US but the EPA says no. the EPA has said no to new refineries for a long time and this is why the gas price is high.

the world is not going to run out of oil. they have been saying this crap since the 1960's.

[yanglike]

yeh! keep going up so that people react because right now everyone seems hypnotize by all this happenning...

[dready]

Originally Posted by rebel23

that is very funny. there is plenty of oil, the trouble is the United States cannot refine it. the Saudis even offered to build refineries in the US but the EPA says no. the EPA has said no to new refineries for a long time and this is why the gas price is high.

the world is not going to run out of oil. they have been saying this crap since the 1960's.

Then why is sweet crude production falling?

Why are oil companies spending more on exploration than what they actually find?

Why are all major oil companies seeing their days as numbered and talking about a world beyond oil?

[Marcus Aurelius]

anybody wanna partner with me on a chain of scooter dealerships.

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by dready

Then why is sweet crude production falling?

Why are oil companies spending more on exploration than what they actually find?

Why are all major oil companies seeing their days as numbered and talking about a world beyond oil?

light sweet crude is just one form of gas, overall oil production continues to rise and OPEC and NON OPEC countries (i.e Russia) are currently producing more than the world can handle. As I said, the trouble is the refinery capacity. that is causing the high prices.

Oil companies are spending more on exploration due to the fact that they are experiencing massive profits on the back of reduced refinery capacity which pushes up the prices, they are simply expanding their operations and market share whilst they have the cash flow to do so.

I am not sure where you get this "world beyond oil" stuff coming from, alot of it is clever PR from oil companies, but a few of them are spending heavy on R&D to develop new products for market.

[dready]

Originally Posted by rebel23

there is no such thing as peak oil it is refinery capacity in the United States that causes the price to rise, there is plenty of oil.

French PM: "We have entered the post-oil era"

Lundin Petroleum CEO "very much believes in the theory of peak oil"

Bush Gives New Reason for Iraq War
Says US must prevent oil fields from falling into hands of terrorists

China And India: A Rage For Oil
Beijing has the upper hand now. But Moscow is old friends with Delhi

Oil's Peak: The End May Be Nearer, It Seems
Editorial, Minneapolis Star Tribune

UK gas and electricity crisis looming

Crude Awakening: the end of cheap oil
Staff, Cleveland Plain Dealer

Has oil production peaked?
Staff, BBC

'Peak oil' is coming, but country is ill-prepared United States needs energy security insurance policy
Steve A. Yetiv, Houston Chronicle

Is Oil Nearing Its Peak?
Robert Aronen, Motley Fool

`Peak oil' spells cataclysm for U.S., oil theorist warns
Alexander Lane, Newhouse News Service via Portland Oregonian

Matt Simmons Answer Some Tough Questions About Peak Oil
David J. DesLauriers, Resource Investor

Extent of global oil reserves a matter of some dispute
Saudis optimistic, U.S. conservative in their estimates
David R. Baker, SF Chronicle

After the oil runs out
Tim Holt, Portland Oregonian

OPEC Reveal Global Light Sweet Crude Peaked
Chris Vernon, Vital Trivia

Wall Street giants see oil rising
BBC

World running out of time for oil alternatives
Anna Mudeva, Reuters

New Zealand Government-sponsored consultant report prepares NZ for oil shortage emergencies

The Cost of Oil And Hubbert's Peak
William Tucker, Bergen Country (NJ) Record

Government unprepared for peak oil
Kevin Moore, NZ Herald




These are headlines from the past month. Do you want more evidence? There is plenty more.

[jawanda]

Originally Posted by rebel23

light sweet crude is just one form of gas, overall oil production continues to rise and OPEC and NON OPEC countries (i.e Russia) are currently producing more than the world can handle. As I said, the trouble is the refinery capacity. that is causing the high prices.

Oil companies are spending more on exploration due to the fact that they are experiencing massive profits on the back of reduced refinery capacity which pushes up the prices, they are simply expanding their operations and market share whilst they have the cash flow to do so.

I am not sure where you get this "world beyond oil" stuff coming from, alot of it is clever PR from oil companies, but a few of them are spending heavy on R&D to develop new products for market.

I am not saying (as I clearly stated in my first post) that the current rise in oil prices has ANYTHING to do with peak oil. What I am saying is that regardless what "cause" stirs you up, it is obvious that we desperately need to develop some viable alternatives to oil / gasoline. So called "Peak oil" is just one of the many reasons that we need to develop efficient alternative energy sources.

"Big Oil" is the #1 supporter / owner of alternative energy sources in the U.S. They know these facts a thousand times better than you or I do, and they are acting on the data, just not fast enough.

There are also reasons beyond the EPA why more refineries have not been built in the U.S...



-Phil

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by dready

French PM: "We have entered the post-oil era"

Lundin Petroleum CEO "very much believes in the theory of peak oil"

Bush Gives New Reason for Iraq War
Says US must prevent oil fields from falling into hands of terrorists

China And India: A Rage For Oil
Beijing has the upper hand now. But Moscow is old friends with Delhi

Oil's Peak: The End May Be Nearer, It Seems
Editorial, Minneapolis Star Tribune

you are just reeling off a bunch of editorials and inaccurate news stories based on falsehoods. that is not 'evidence', on the contrary it is propaganda. I have already told you the reason why gas prices are rising, due to refinery capacity.

This is from Associated Press
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8302921/

I can give you many other articles and reports and im sure for every one you will produce a counter article or editorial which blithely screams about oil running out tomorrow (they have been saying this since the 1960's REMEMBER?)

[jawanda]

Originally Posted by rebel23

you are just reeling off a bunch of editorials and inaccurate news stories based on falsehoods. that is not 'evidence', on the contrary it is propaganda. I have already told you the reason why gas prices are rising, due to refinery capacity.

This is from Associated Press
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8302921/

I can give you many other articles and reports and im sure for every one you will produce a counter article or editorial which blithely screams about oil running out tomorrow (they have been saying this since the 1960's REMEMBER?)

You are correct in that the CURRENT rise in gas prices doesn't appear to be caused by anything resembling peak oil.

But is peak oil a reality that we will have to deal with in our lifetimes? Of course. I know it's scary, but it will be even worse if we all keep sticking our heads in the sand and pretending like it's never going to happen.



-P

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by jawanda

I am not saying (as I clearly stated in my first post) that the current rise in oil prices has ANYTHING to do with peak oil. What I am saying is that regardless what "cause" stirs you up, it is obvious that we desperately need to develop some viable alternatives to oil / gasoline. So called "Peak oil" is just one of the many reasons that we need to develop efficient alternative energy sources.

"Big Oil" is the #1 supporter / owner of alternative energy sources in the U.S. They know these facts a thousand times better than you or I do, and they are acting on the data, just not fast enough.

There are also reasons beyond the EPA why more refineries have not been built in the U.S...



-Phil

they would be stupid not to invest the huge dividend they are reaping right now, any business has to invest in new products etc. there is clearly a demand for what people perceive as 'cleaner' fuel, ergo, companies will supply that demand.

Here's a CNN article, this is mainstream news folks. not editorials the other guy was throwing around !!

"The fact that refiners are struggling to keep up with demand for finished products has pushed gasoline prices to record highs and helped boost crude prices."

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/12/markets/oil/

As for the alarmist statement 'we desperately need to develop some viable alternatives to oil / gasoline'; why??? I dont understand this. We desperatly need to build more refineries, that is what will have an impact, not your fantasies for alternative fuels which are many, many years away and will take a lot of research and development .

BTW, LPG is an alternative fuel developed after many years of R&D, when will you convert your car???

[xuron]

rebel23 I have to say, I really don't understand what you are really talking about... do you really think we will have all the oil we could ever need in our lifetimes? and I am talking about world demand here... if we built more refinaries then people will just use it more... you think oil is not a finite resource?

[JD]

Originally Posted by dready

I agree 100%... This is just a taste of things to come. We best get used to it while we still have time.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

THAT is some SCARY SHIT

[rebel23]

Originally Posted by xuron

rebel23 I have to say, I really don't understand what you are really talking about... do you really think we will have all the oil we could ever need in our lifetimes? and I am talking about world demand here... if we built more refinaries then people will just use it more... you think oil is not a finite resource?

As I said, there is plenty of oil, just not enough refineries to refine high grade stuff. US refineries are not upgrading and can only cope mainly with light sweet crude. Hopefully they will upgrade or build new refeneries if the EPA allows them to and the price will come down. Your also forgetting that demand is elastic, it too will go up and down.

The extent of oils finity is not truely known, I will not proffer an opinion on such a meaningless subject, I will leave that to those who have been brandishing charts and such like for over 40 years to come to their alarmist opinions. Meanwhile, oil exploration continues to rise in, Africa, Russia, Asia and parts of the middle east.

[Manowar]

for every hybrid car people buy, i will drive my viper more to make up for the fuel

[dready]

Originally Posted by rebel23

As I said, there is plenty of oil, just not enough refineries to refine high grade stuff. US refineries are not upgrading and can only cope mainly with light sweet crude. Hopefully they will upgrade or build new refeneries if the EPA allows them to and the price will come down. Your also forgetting that demand is elastic, it too will go up and down.

The extent of oils finity is not truely known, I will not proffer an opinion on such a meaningless subject, I will leave that to those who have been brandishing charts and such like for over 40 years to come to their alarmist opinions. Meanwhile, oil exploration continues to rise in, Africa, Russia, Asia and parts of the middle east.

There is not plenty of oil. Major oil fields around the world are depleting and very little is being found to replace them. Oil exploration is becoming less fruitful every year. We currently consume 6 barrels of oil for every barrel we find.

[Rinaldo]

Why do you think we'll build oil refineries when the Oil companies make money off not having enough of them. who profits? the big oil companies, and texas, we will have to wait till this administration is gone I beleive, because where is it based out of? TEXAS, an oil state.

I don't beleive they will willingly half their profits to appease the masses.

[Manowar]

Originally Posted by dready

There is not plenty of oil. Major oil fields around the world are depleting and very little is being found to replace them. Oil exploration is becoming less fruitful every year. We currently consume 6 barrels of oil for every barrel we find.

Thanks for reposting the contents of lifeaftertheoilcrash.

It's not the only source of information in the world.


Long live V8s.

[dready]

Originally Posted by Rinaldo

Why do you think we'll build oil refineries when the Oil companies make money off not having enough of them. who profits? the big oil companies, and texas, we will have to wait till this administration is gone I beleive, because where is it based out of? TEXAS, an oil state.

I don't beleive they will willingly half their profits to appease the masses.

Not to mention, why would you spends many millions building something you won't even need soon? It's not economically feasible.

The only thing that will get refineries built is if the government pays for them.

[rebel23]

Dready, my dear interlocutor, ask yourself this question: have these people ever been right about their past doomsday forecasts?? Nope...

[jawanda]

Originally Posted by rebel23

Dready, my dear interlocutor, ask yourself this question: have these people ever been right about their past doomsday forecasts?? Nope...

They've only been making these "forecasts" for about 40 years. There hasn't been enough time for them to be proven either right or wrong. And who knows? Maybe it won't happen in our lifetimes.

But even the nay-sayers of peak oil admit that it's happening, they're just saying that we still have quite a bit of time left to prepare, which I hope is true.

This article that you posted is quite interesting, and does give hope, but it is not saying that we are free and clear with nothing to worry about it. It just says that we have time and don't neeed to panic. I tend to agree:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8302921/

-P

[Fred Quimby]

which of you morons said the Iraq war was for oil?

now go suck my cock and play with my balls

[breaker]

Great post jawanda!

[BlackCrayon]

yet oil companies will continue to report record profits despite everything.

[dready]

Originally Posted by Manowar

Thanks for reposting the contents of lifeaftertheoilcrash.

It's not the only source of information in the world.


Long live V8s.

I'll post any number of articles from major new sources.. how many do you want? 100? 200? 1000? Just name it, I'll post however many you want if you promise to read that many.

[dready]

Originally Posted by rebel23

Dready, my dear interlocutor, ask yourself this question: have these people ever been right about their past doomsday forecasts?? Nope...

Which people? Every major oil executive? Every major government? OPEC? Most financial analysts? Most respected news organizations?

Did you see the cover of National Geographic this month "After Oil"? This is mainstream thinking.

[Fresh]

Before you try and persuade Americans to change their ways and stop driving Hummers and high gas consuming V's, you should question why Hummer is allowed to build a car like that.

You cant blame people for driving something thats offered to them and made to look so glorious. People are people, and people will consume whats available.

Now, do you really think people would be driving these cars if they the cars were not developed or regulated to a point where its not available in the US? Fuck no they wouldnt be. So before pointing fingurs at people, point them at those that allow car companies to make these cars. And oddly enough, American companies are the ones that make the most gas consuming cars.

Think about it.

[jollyperv]

Thermal Depolymerization!!!

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by Rinaldo

Is this effecting gas prices world wide?

Yup. Ours is...

[slapass]

Originally Posted by Dave Guru

Before you try and persuade Americans to change their ways and stop driving Hummers and high gas consuming V's, you should question why Hummer is allowed to build a car like that.

You cant blame people for driving something thats offered to them and made to look so glorious. People are people, and people will consume whats available.

Now, do you really think people would be driving these cars if they the cars were not developed or regulated to a point where its not available in the US? Fuck no they wouldnt be. So before pointing fingurs at people, point them at those that allow car companies to make these cars. And oddly enough, American companies are the ones that make the most gas consuming cars.

Think about it.

So you think the govt should regulate car production? Russia did that and it did not work to well.

[dready]

Originally Posted by jollyperv

Thermal Depolymerization!!!

This has a lot of potential to help meet a little of our future energy needs.

[Rui]

Things will get pretty ugly before some new proper research funds is put into alternative energy sources...in the meantime the oil-lords and company will keep ranking up big time..

Got to love lobby's...

[dready]

Originally Posted by Dave Guru

Before you try and persuade Americans to change their ways and stop driving Hummers and high gas consuming V's, you should question why Hummer is allowed to build a car like that.

You cant blame people for driving something thats offered to them and made to look so glorious. People are people, and people will consume whats available.

Now, do you really think people would be driving these cars if they the cars were not developed or regulated to a point where its not available in the US? Fuck no they wouldnt be. So before pointing fingurs at people, point them at those that allow car companies to make these cars. And oddly enough, American companies are the ones that make the most gas consuming cars.

Think about it.

Cars have little to do with gas prices, however if you want people to stop buying gas guzzlers, a gas tax is considered the most efficient method.

[dready]

Originally Posted by Rui

Things will get pretty ugly before some new proper research funds is put into alternative energy sources...in the meantime the oil-lords and company will keep ranking up big time..

Got to love lobby's...

It's the oil companies that are funding this research. They know they can no longer view themselves as oil companies... they are now 'energy companies'. Oil companies have no future. That is why British Petroleum has renamed itself 'Beyond Petroleum' and is expanding it's solar and other alternative energy business big time. They are not stupid, they know the oil age is over and they are looking ahead to keep their position in the future energy market.

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by slapass

So you think the govt should regulate car production? Russia did that and it did not work to well.

All Im saying is you cant fuckin blame people for driving what they are allowed to drive. You expect to offer consumers rides like the Hummer and have them say "o, no thanks. Id rather buy a civic and have $40k left over to use for gas."

Its not gonna happen. If its available, its gonna be driven.

[dready]

Originally Posted by Dave Guru

All Im saying is you cant fuckin blame people for driving what they are allowed to drive. You expect to offer consumers rides like the Hummer and have them say "o, no thanks. Id rather buy a civic and have $40k left over to use for gas."

Its not gonna happen. If its available, its gonna be driven.

Why should they stop? If they can afford it, let them do it. It may be a stupid thing, but it's a free country. Just tax the shit out of the gas.

[vvq]

ass, cash, or grass. nobody rides for free.

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by dready

Why should they stop? If they can afford it, let them do it. It may be a stupid thing, but it's a free country. Just tax the shit out of the gas.

thats what im saying. If its available and they can afford it, theres no reason not to drive it. If its available then its okay. Right?

[$5 submissions]

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE: if the elevated oil prices persist for a LONG time, this may give cleaner, safer, and more renewable energy sources to become cheaper and hit IRREVERSIBLE economies of scale. Once those economies of scale are reached, alternative fuels become so cheap that fossil fuel become just that... A FOSSIL, a relic of the past.

It's happened before... WHALE OIL gave way to kerosene and other oils. Same will happen with FOSSIL FUEL if prices remain high for long enough. It would have sown the seeds of its own destruction.

[Brujah]

How about we pause a moment and stop blaming the US Govt, US refineries, etc.. for being addicted to Oil and being blamed for not finding alternative energies.

What about the rest of the world ? What are all these other countries doing about refineries ? What are all these other countries in the world doing about alternative energy sources if they're so readily available but "big Oil" is keeping us from switching to them ?

Are all the other countries in on the big US Oil conspiracy too ?

[dready]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE: if the elevated oil prices persist for a LONG time, this may give cleaner, safer, and more renewable energy sources to become cheaper and hit IRREVERSIBLE economies of scale. Once those economies of scale are reached, alternative fuels become so cheap that fossil fuel become just that... A FOSSIL, a relic of the past.

It's happened before... WHALE OIL gave way to kerosene and other oils. Same will happen with FOSSIL FUEL if prices remain high for long enough. It would have sown the seeds of its own destruction.

Gene, it's very true. The rising cost of oil and new technology will make alternatives more viable. The problem is, no other energy source comes even close to oil. It's going to be a very painful transition.

[Luis Mesa]

fuck GAS we need an alternative I heard a man that made a car function with peanut oil...google it if you doubt me