WTF Paid Listings???????? - GoFuckYourself.com

nikad · 08-29-2005, 04:58 PM

So a good friend bought a submit pass for a well known TGP. He submits and submits and doesn't get listed, and gets no explanation on why, finally after many unanswered emails, he emails once again to a diff address, and they say they won't list his galleries because of the registrar he used for his domain names??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!???????????
I have heard crazy shit, but this? Any ideas?
nik

Harmon · 08-29-2005, 04:58 PM

Who is the registrar? What is the TGP? Post info, this is important to many here

NoCarrier · 08-29-2005, 05:00 PM

Amazing how those stories always involve another person.

nikad · 08-29-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

Amazing how those stories always involve another person.

Wot you mean?

fris · 08-29-2005, 05:02 PM

some check if its domainsbyproxy, like thehun does.

DraX · 08-29-2005, 05:04 PM

tell us more.....

BastarD · 08-29-2005, 05:05 PM

once a hosting company (LayeredTech) wanted to bill me for 1200$ for their 'administrators work' while they couldn't install one Cisco PIX (hardware firewall) for me for 8 DAYS and couldn't make my servers working behind firewall.. so I told them to fuck off with their 'services' and firewall and they created 1200$ invoice for their undone work.............

anyway I paid them NOTHING, it's even better, they paid me 5k bucks for my damages costs (4 days of unexpected downtime bcoz of their fault) but this happened after many months of investigating...

hate fuckin companies like this.....

your situation is weird as well

nikad · 08-29-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraX

tell us more.....

My friend is a hard working honest webmaster, since his english is not good, he asked me to translate the mail he got, and I couldn't fuckin believe it. I don't really want to give out the name of the tgp, cos I don't know if this is common practice... it is not a US tgp and it went paid last month though

nikad · 08-29-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

some check if its domainsbyproxy, like thehun does.

i have checked their domains and they are all registered with their real info

Sosa · 08-29-2005, 05:19 PM

ya that is fucked up. the site should have mentioned they wouldn't take submits from certain registrar or hosts.

throwdown · 08-29-2005, 05:20 PM

interesting

seems like the tgp is just trying to fuck your friends out of some money

Ray@TastyDollars · 08-29-2005, 05:37 PM

We have two sites like that. They will not list anyone from a certain registrars, unfortunatly the only way to know is to submit. For this reason we have always refunded our clients. If your "friend" bought from us we will refund him. Email me at rayATnichespots.com

thx,
Ray

nikad · 08-29-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

We have two sites like that. They will not list anyone from a certain registrars, unfortunatly the only way to know is to submit. For this reason we have always refunded our clients. If your "friend" bought from us we will refund him. Email me at rayATnichespots.com

thx,
Ray

Ray, I think he bought it from you, actually I think he bought two. I will tell him to contact you. Maybe it would be nice if you put something about it on these 2 sites. Also, I don't quite get the reasons for this
nik

BVF · 08-29-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

We have two sites like that. They will not list anyone from a certain registrars, unfortunatly the only way to know is to submit. For this reason we have always refunded our clients. If your "friend" bought from us we will refund him. Email me at rayATnichespots.com

thx,
Ray

Normally I would say that this is fucking ridiculous but after seeing how people actually buy submit passes just to turn around and redirect the galleries, I can understand...

People go through all kinds of bullshit just to cheat.

nikad · 08-29-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

Ray, I think he bought it from you, actually I think he bought two. I will tell him to contact you. Maybe it would be nice if you put something about it on these 2 sites. Also, I don't quite get the reasons for this
nik

My mistake, he bought it directly from them.

nikad · 08-29-2005, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

Normally I would say that this is fucking ridiculous but after seeing how people actually buy submit passes just to turn around and redirect the galleries, I can understand...

People go through all kinds of bullshit just to cheat.

I guess I am too naive then, but anybody could do it with their domains and with any registar, why are certain registars blocked? Also shouldn't they at least put it in their terms? drop the guys some email?

Ray@TastyDollars · 08-29-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

My mistake, he bought it directly from them.

Ah cool. If you need help contacting them, let me know.

Ray

facialfreak · 08-29-2005, 06:37 PM

I'm betting it's Richards' Realm ...

This sounds all just a little too familiar

Submit passes (generally speaking, and not neccesarily the company by the same name...), are highly over-rated IMHO

Ray@TastyDollars · 08-29-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

Normally I would say that this is fucking ridiculous but after seeing how people actually buy submit passes just to turn around and redirect the galleries, I can understand...

People go through all kinds of bullshit just to cheat.

Its getting out of hand. That is the biggest reason why we offer 3m packages and we are even concidering killing MVC monthly recurring. Yes, cheaters will think twice before buying 3 months. So far 100% of our cheaters have bougth 1 month passes.

Ray

Dirty Dane · 08-29-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Its getting out of hand. That is the biggest reason why we offer 3m packages and we are even concidering killing MVC monthly recurring. Yes, cheaters will think twice before buying 3 months. So far 100% of our cheaters have bougth 1 month passes.

Ray

Yes, thats the way to do it.
However sad, that they screw up for others. First free open submissions, then free partner accounts, and now paid accounts.

tony286 · 08-29-2005, 07:34 PM

the only person that benefits from a paid submit pass is the person who sold it lol

demented · 08-29-2005, 07:41 PM

It's strange but it doesn't surprise me.. I've heard some fucked up excuses plenty of times.

jollyperv · 08-29-2005, 07:49 PM

Paying for partner accounts is retarded.

Those who say the model is shifting, think again, it will correct itself. Pay partner accounts are the worst thing to happen to this industry since the introduction of the FHG.

Big Fish 47 · 08-29-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

the only person that benefits from a paid submit pass is the person who sold it lol

I approve a lot of good reviews from people that make money.

Azlord · 08-29-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Its getting out of hand. That is the biggest reason why we offer 3m packages and we are even concidering killing MVC monthly recurring. Yes, cheaters will think twice before buying 3 months. So far 100% of our cheaters have bougth 1 month passes.

Ray

Ray I just wanted to say I am very happy with my passes. ElephantList and PinkWorld are both submitting me a lot. And you guys have been great to work with.

the Shemp · 08-29-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

So a good friend bought a submit pass for a well known TGP. He submits and submits and doesn't get listed, and gets no explanation on why, finally after many unanswered emails, he emails once again to a diff address, and they say they won't list his galleries because of the registrar he used for his domain names??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!???????????
I have heard crazy shit, but this? Any ideas?
nik

Registration Service Provided By: ESTHOST

i'm guessing, am i close?

Iron Mike · 08-30-2005, 02:52 AM

bump5978

Oracle Porn · 08-30-2005, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

the only person that benefits from a paid submit pass is the person who sold it lol

actually i benefit from them and im the one buying.

nikad · 08-30-2005, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

Registration Service Provided By: ESTHOST

i'm guessing, am i close?

sir, his doamins are highwaytgp.com , galleriestriplex.com I don't know, but the registrars look ... normal to me :P
nik

the Shemp · 08-30-2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

sir, his doamins are highwaytgp.com , galleriestriplex.com I don't know, but the registrars look ... normal to me :P
nik

ya, i didnt notice anything unusual...

nikad · 08-30-2005, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

ya, i didnt notice anything unusual...

Well, these people have always been very pro an nice, I remember when I started submitting galleries, and for some reason I had some kind of error on my gallys, they would even told me wot was wrong, and then they would list them, I think that if you are going to charge for listing galleries, you have to give some kind of service to your submitters and take care of them - basic crm. My friend had to chase them til they finally said this, which doesn't make sense to me. I guess it is not just about the money reimbursement, but about being treated as a scammer when you are not. Hopefully they will explain further wot is going on. I will post updates here, the tgp name has been mentioned in the thread.
nik

DarkJedi · 08-30-2005, 03:22 AM

what registrar ?

justsexxx · 08-30-2005, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Its getting out of hand. That is the biggest reason why we offer 3m packages and we are even concidering killing MVC monthly recurring. Yes, cheaters will think twice before buying 3 months. So far 100% of our cheaters have bougth 1 month passes.

Ray

When you do, let me know, and I have to cancel all my accounts. I'm not gonna pay 3 months in advance for some passes that do not work(they do work, but I mean money wise) The 1 month gives me the possibility to check some new accounts, change old passes etc.

Of course you can kill the 1 months recurring to detect some cheaters, but also keep in mind, the majority doesn't like that. Maybe keep offering 1 month passes for webmasters you KNOW?

A.Skywalker · 08-30-2005, 08:52 AM

Hi there:

I am the mysterious nikad's friend. I had not written before, basically because I was busy trying to solve and to "understand" all this thing. In addition my English is not very good, and it's much hard to me to express everything what I mean.

...and yes all of this is about RR...

Never before there was I heard nothing like this.
I'm not a cheater, I don't change my galleries ever, all of them are permanent and hosted in a paid server, don´t use pop ups, consoles, java or some shit like that, all my domains are on my own, registered with my real info, name, address, etc...

Really... I cannot understand, in what way can affect to RR, or to any other, what registrar I did used to register my domains. And in any case this does not have solution by now, my domains expire in 2006.
Now I am waiting for an answer from RR, for that reason I am not going to say nothing else, by now.

Just one more thing, so that you they can see if, in your opinion, there is something wrong with my galleries, domains, host, etc.

My domains:

galleriestriplex.com
onewaytgp.com
nubiles4all.com

My partner's domains:

highwaytgp.com
tgpmundial.com

All of them was registered under the same registrar.

Galleries samples (submited to RR, and waiting...):

TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/ftvg.../richards.html
TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/feli.../richards.html
TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/ftvg.../richards.html
TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/tawn.../richards.html
TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/kirs.../richards.html
MGP http://www.nubiles4all.com/movies/ma.../richards.html
MGP http://www.nubiles4all.com/movies/sh.../richards.html

I would like too much to know the opinion of all of you guys. Cya.

Fuckin Bill · 08-30-2005, 09:30 AM

I don't see anything wrong with the galleries, the registry info or anything.

Shemp, if you're still reading along, what's the deal with the "Registration Service Provided By: ESTHOST" ? Just curious as to what the problem is with them.

sandman! · 08-30-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

So a good friend bought a submit pass for a well known TGP. He submits and submits and doesn't get listed, and gets no explanation on why, finally after many unanswered emails, he emails once again to a diff address, and they say they won't list his galleries because of the registrar he used for his domain names??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!???????????
I have heard crazy shit, but this? Any ideas?
nik

its called a refund or a chargeback anyone selling submit passes that has a problem with where a domain is registered needes to provide a refund or just chargeback on thier asses.

Ray@TastyDollars · 08-30-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justsexxx

When you do, let me know, and I have to cancel all my accounts. I'm not gonna pay 3 months in advance for some passes that do not work(they do work, but I mean money wise) The 1 month gives me the possibility to check some new accounts, change old passes etc.

Of course you can kill the 1 months recurring to detect some cheaters, but also keep in mind, the majority doesn't like that. Maybe keep offering 1 month passes for webmasters you KNOW?

One month to test? One month is not nearly enough time to test anything. Lets say you buy a pass for September 1st, you submit your first gallery and it takes 3-4 days to be reviewd and another 1-2 to be listed. That leaves you with 3 weeks to "test"..not enough time.

As we stand right now, we are 3 owners making the decision. I for one am all for 3 month min....oh and only about 30% of sales are monthly. Im willing to bet my left nut that when we do this switch we will only lose about 5% of sales, for a month or 2 and then they will come to their senses abd sign up again.

Ray

Ray@TastyDollars · 08-30-2005, 11:25 AM

Oh and another thing. We are thinking about adding a new rule to all MVC sales. If the Card Holder name does not match the whoIS info, the sale will not be allowed.

thx,
Ray

Lee · 08-30-2005, 02:41 PM

Shemp, its a Directi registrar who Est are also a reseller for I believe. Nikad, they are riddled with cheats and unfortunately your friend got caught up in the mire.

nikad · 08-30-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Shemp, its a Directi registrar who Est are also a reseller for I believe. Nikad, they are riddled with cheats and unfortunately your friend got caught up in the mire.

Do you think a cheater will contact RR becausae he is not getting listed? Also who is this Directi? Please explain what is the deal with the registrars, I guess if you wanna cheat you can do it with any...

Donny · 08-30-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Oh and another thing. We are thinking about adding a new rule to all MVC sales. If the Card Holder name does not match the whoIS info, the sale will not be allowed.

thx,
Ray

That's a bad idea. Do you think people use their real names in this business? Really, now.

A.Skywalker · 08-30-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Do you think a cheater will contact RR becausae he is not getting listed? Also who is this Directi? Please explain what is the deal with the registrars, I guess if you wanna cheat you can do it with any...

yep... I think the same way... but nobody explain...

justsexxx · 08-30-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

One month to test? One month is not nearly enough time to test anything. Lets say you buy a pass for September 1st, you submit your first gallery and it takes 3-4 days to be reviewd and another 1-2 to be listed. That leaves you with 3 weeks to "test"..not enough time.

As we stand right now, we are 3 owners making the decision. I for one am all for 3 month min....oh and only about 30% of sales are monthly. Im willing to bet my left nut that when we do this switch we will only lose about 5% of sales, for a month or 2 and then they will come to their senses abd sign up again.

Ray

Okay, so ppl who are taking 1 months, should use their sense, when then don't like to switch to 3 months. Okay, it's obvious how you think about the people that make you money.

dynastoned · 08-30-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanPhillips

That's a bad idea. Do you think people use their real names in this business? Really, now.

yes indeed donny has a point there..

wedouglas · 08-30-2005, 04:53 PM

Off topic, but do you, people at submitpasses, allow TGP owners to sell as many passes as they want or do you limit them to a reasonable number according to how many galleries they list daily?

TommysBookmarks · 08-30-2005, 04:57 PM

I wouldnt be so quick to condem RR

in fact I feel sorry for them a bit

I remember a lot of times desperatly trying to get rid of the cheaters and grabing on to any little peice of info that they had in common

of course when killing submits that had that info in common maybe 50 or so other innocent submitters would get killed off as well

its a bad situation for everybody

wdsguy · 08-30-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommysBookmarks

I wouldnt be so quick to condem RR

in fact I feel sorry for them a bit

I remember a lot of times desperatly trying to get rid of the cheaters and grabing on to any little peice of info that they had in common

of course when killing submits that had that info in common maybe 50 or so other innocent submitters would get killed off as well

its a bad situation for everybody

Tommys postcount and traffic rocks

Theo · 08-30-2005, 05:00 PM

wow,TB posting here,i think i saw a ghost

Theo · 08-30-2005, 05:01 PM

his traffic yes, his post count sucks big time

GonZo · 08-30-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

his traffic yes, his post count sucks big time

Thats cuz post count matters right?

08-29-2005, 04:58 PM	#1
nikad Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BA Posts: 2,579	WTF Paid Listings???????? So a good friend bought a submit pass for a well known TGP. He submits and submits and doesn't get listed, and gets no explanation on why, finally after many unanswered emails, he emails once again to a diff address, and they say they won't list his galleries because of the registrar he used for his domain names??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!??????????? I have heard crazy shit, but this? Any ideas? nik __________________ The Filthy Few [email protected] Last edited by nikad; 08-29-2005 at 05:00 PM..

08-29-2005, 04:58 PM	#2
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,010	Who is the registrar? What is the TGP? Post info, this is important to many here __________________ [email protected]

08-29-2005, 05:00 PM	#3
NoCarrier We need more free porn Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 16,356	Amazing how those stories always involve another person. __________________

08-29-2005, 05:02 PM	#5
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	some check if its domainsbyproxy, like thehun does. __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

08-29-2005, 05:04 PM	#6
DraX Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In wonderland.. Posts: 7,147	tell us more..... __________________ Deposit Today With BTC - Play With Bitcoins

08-29-2005, 05:05 PM	#7
BastarD Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Very close to that Jack Daniels bottle.. Posts: 6,341	once a hosting company (LayeredTech) wanted to bill me for 1200$ for their 'administrators work' while they couldn't install one Cisco PIX (hardware firewall) for me for 8 DAYS and couldn't make my servers working behind firewall.. so I told them to fuck off with their 'services' and firewall and they created 1200$ invoice for their undone work............. anyway I paid them NOTHING, it's even better, they paid me 5k bucks for my damages costs (4 days of unexpected downtime bcoz of their fault) but this happened after many months of investigating... hate fuckin companies like this..... your situation is weird as well

08-29-2005, 05:19 PM	#10
Sosa In Tushy Land Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 40,149	ya that is fucked up. the site should have mentioned they wouldn't take submits from certain registrar or hosts.

08-29-2005, 05:20 PM	#11
throwdown So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: dirty south Posts: 997	interesting seems like the tgp is just trying to fuck your friends out of some money

08-29-2005, 05:37 PM	#12
Ray@TastyDollars www.TastyDollars.com Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 6,797	We have two sites like that. They will not list anyone from a certain registrars, unfortunatly the only way to know is to submit. For this reason we have always refunded our clients. If your "friend" bought from us we will refund him. Email me at rayATnichespots.com thx, Ray __________________ The nets best interracial and cuckold site The nets hottest teen site ICQ me: 161 375 873

08-29-2005, 06:37 PM	#18
facialfreak Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 3,018	I'm betting it's Richards' Realm ... This sounds all just a little too familiar Submit passes (generally speaking, and not neccesarily the company by the same name...), are highly over-rated IMHO __________________ Managed Shared Hosting starting at $4.99/mo Managed VPS starting at $29.99/mo Last edited by facialfreak; 08-29-2005 at 06:39 PM..

08-29-2005, 07:34 PM	#21
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	the only person that benefits from a paid submit pass is the person who sold it lol

08-29-2005, 07:41 PM	#22
demented Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,388	It's strange but it doesn't surprise me.. I've heard some fucked up excuses plenty of times.

08-29-2005, 07:49 PM	#23
jollyperv Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 3,927	Paying for partner accounts is retarded. Those who say the model is shifting, think again, it will correct itself. Pay partner accounts are the worst thing to happen to this industry since the introduction of the FHG. Last edited by jollyperv; 08-29-2005 at 07:50 PM..

08-30-2005, 02:52 AM	#27
Iron Mike Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 460	bump5978

08-30-2005, 03:22 AM	#32
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	what registrar ?

08-30-2005, 08:52 AM	#34
A.Skywalker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 19	Hi there: I am the mysterious nikad's friend. I had not written before, basically because I was busy trying to solve and to "understand" all this thing. In addition my English is not very good, and it's much hard to me to express everything what I mean. ...and yes all of this is about RR... Never before there was I heard nothing like this. I'm not a cheater, I don't change my galleries ever, all of them are permanent and hosted in a paid server, don´t use pop ups, consoles, java or some shit like that, all my domains are on my own, registered with my real info, name, address, etc... Really... I cannot understand, in what way can affect to RR, or to any other, what registrar I did used to register my domains. And in any case this does not have solution by now, my domains expire in 2006. Now I am waiting for an answer from RR, for that reason I am not going to say nothing else, by now. Just one more thing, so that you they can see if, in your opinion, there is something wrong with my galleries, domains, host, etc. My domains: galleriestriplex.com onewaytgp.com nubiles4all.com My partner's domains: highwaytgp.com tgpmundial.com All of them was registered under the same registrar. Galleries samples (submited to RR, and waiting...): TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/ftvg.../richards.html TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/feli.../richards.html TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/ftvg.../richards.html TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/tawn.../richards.html TGP http://www.galleriestriplex.com/kirs.../richards.html MGP http://www.nubiles4all.com/movies/ma.../richards.html MGP http://www.nubiles4all.com/movies/sh.../richards.html I would like too much to know the opinion of all of you guys. Cya.

08-30-2005, 09:30 AM	#35
Fuckin Bill Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,020	I don't see anything wrong with the galleries, the registry info or anything. Shemp, if you're still reading along, what's the deal with the "Registration Service Provided By: ESTHOST" ? Just curious as to what the problem is with them.

08-30-2005, 11:25 AM	#38
Ray@TastyDollars www.TastyDollars.com Join Date: May 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 6,797	Oh and another thing. We are thinking about adding a new rule to all MVC sales. If the Card Holder name does not match the whoIS info, the sale will not be allowed. thx, Ray __________________ The nets best interracial and cuckold site The nets hottest teen site ICQ me: 161 375 873

08-30-2005, 02:41 PM	#39
Lee Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kernow Posts: 2,977	Shemp, its a Directi registrar who Est are also a reseller for I believe. Nikad, they are riddled with cheats and unfortunately your friend got caught up in the mire.

08-30-2005, 04:53 PM	#45
wedouglas So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Dearborn, MI Posts: 5,921	Off topic, but do you, people at submitpasses, allow TGP owners to sell as many passes as they want or do you limit them to a reasonable number according to how many galleries they list daily?

08-30-2005, 04:57 PM	#46
TommysBookmarks Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9	I wouldnt be so quick to condem RR in fact I feel sorry for them a bit I remember a lot of times desperatly trying to get rid of the cheaters and grabing on to any little peice of info that they had in common of course when killing submits that had that info in common maybe 50 or so other innocent submitters would get killed off as well its a bad situation for everybody

08-30-2005, 05:00 PM	#48
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	wow,TB posting here,i think i saw a ghost

08-30-2005, 05:01 PM	#49
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	his traffic yes, his post count sucks big time