what's legal in court? - GoFuckYourself.com

Rantan · 08-27-2005, 01:21 AM

some poor college student coder is hassling me and my friend about paying him for some half-ass job he did on a project we needed done, needless to say he fucked it up and we didnt use what he gave us.

now he's threating to take us to small claims court, i was wondering what's legal as evidance in a court like that? becuase the only record we have as far as communication is MSN logs and a few sorted e-mails. no we're no trying to fuck over some high school kid just so we dont have to pay him the 400 he wants. he didnt do the work we aggred to and arnt paying him a cent. i was wondering if he had any case givin the evidance?

sicone · 08-27-2005, 01:26 AM

yeah.. asking the keyboard lawyers here will get you the best advice ever

I understand its small calims court and no lawyers are needed, however it may very well be worth the price of a consultation with one for advice.

or just pay the kid the 400, if you loose will cost you much more in the long run and with this, learn the lesson of contracts

Rantan · 08-27-2005, 01:30 AM

i was just wondering if anyone had been in this situation..or knew if digital documents were legal in court? he doesnt have a case to begin with

sweetginger · 08-27-2005, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantan

i was just wondering if anyone had been in this situation..or knew if digital documents were legal in court? he doesnt have a case to begin with

digital documents such as emails are admissible as evidenciary material (regardless of whether it is small claims, civil, family or criminal court)...if you lose, you may have to pay not only the $400, but also his court costs as well as your's...and if you consult an attorney, you will also have to pay that attorney for it and all attorneys bill at a 1 hr minimum for 1st hr...regardless of even if it only takes 5 minms to consult him/her (the FREE 1st consultaion is a myth)...oregon is a state where attorneys get in the $150/hr range...so even w/o court costs...if you lose, you are already looking at a minimum of $400-$550....plus there's always the "opening a can of worms" situation, where the question is put forth in open court..."what exactly was this enterprise about??? PORN???" in the possible presence of a representative of the ADA, a cop or 2 (even if not involved in the case, there is always a rep of the ADA present and usually a cop or 2 too, as in the bailiffs) and definitely the judge...wouldn't it be cheaper, wiser and in your best interest to eat the $400 and chalk it up as a learning experience to look at work samples, draw up an expectation of results contract and avoid a mess like this in the future??? I think so.........

3M TA3 · 08-27-2005, 03:07 AM

even though small claims courts do not require a lawyer, most will allow it. if you bring a lawyer to court with you the other side has the right to do the same. sometimes threatening the use of a lawer in small claims court is enough to scare them off, however, if it does go to trial, don't take a lawer.

More importantly, if the kid is in high school, what age does he have to be to sue you without his parents?

iBanker · 08-27-2005, 03:09 AM

Been there...small claims that is...once.....won......the only other time the shithead did not show up (neither did we) and we won.......lol

iBanker · 08-27-2005, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMoon

even though small claims courts do not require a lawyer, most will allow it. if you bring a lawyer to court with you the other side has the right to do the same. sometimes threatening the use of a lawer in small claims court is enough to scare them off, however, if it does go to trial, don't take a lawer.

More importantly, if the kid is in high school, what age does he have to be to sue you without his parents?

Not true in Cali....

no lawyers allowed

3M TA3 · 08-27-2005, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBanker

Not true in Cali....

no lawyers allowed

corporations must be exempt in this situation

and if the corporation takes a lawyer, the private party is allowed to bring a lawyer.

the bigger issue is the high school kid's age

Alky · 08-27-2005, 03:14 AM

pay the kid his money and write it off as a loss.

iBanker · 08-27-2005, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMoon

corporations must be exempt in this situation

and if the corporation takes a lawyer, the private party is allowed to bring a lawyer.

the bigger issue is the high school kid's age

not true either

Antonio · 08-27-2005, 04:12 AM

this is what you do

get out on the street, walk untill you see a guy wearing truck suit, has at least 3 gold chains, and speaks with heavy Eastern European accent, give him $200.00, you'll never hear from the kid again

u-Bob · 08-27-2005, 04:54 AM

as I understand it, logs from chat programs are only legal if the chat programs logs the conversation by default. If you have to enable a special logging feature or use a thirdparty program to log the conversation, that would be illegal.....

u-Bob · 08-27-2005, 04:54 AM

oh, btw: I'm not a lawyer.

drama · 08-27-2005, 04:59 AM

Take it to court.

The kid never completed the project. The judge willbe like
"You never finished the project and you expect to be paid?" and most likely throw his claim out right there.

Mr. Mike · 08-27-2005, 07:11 AM

Kid is bluffing. Have a legal council write you up a mean letter and mail it to him certified. That will scare him enough. Or just pay him and write it off as a loss.

Either way, no one wants to get beat up for money, but it is only 400 bucks. Good luck.

Rantan · 08-27-2005, 11:44 AM

thanks everyone..i learned alot..i guess you arnt all full of shit! ;)

i was reading about how to even get something like this started..he's going to have to pay 50 to 100 bucks to even get this started..even if it doesnt go to court

Doc911 · 08-27-2005, 11:56 AM

so what did you decide to do?

might be cheaper and easier to just pay him

sweetginger · 08-27-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mike

Kid is bluffing. Have a legal council write you up a mean letter and mail it to him certified. That will scare him enough. Or just pay him and write it off as a loss.

Either way, no one wants to get beat up for money, but it is only 400 bucks. Good luck.

Aye....that's the ticket...let's break it down...

Initial Consult (1 hr min)...$150
Researching precedence and case citations (2 to 2 1/2 hrs...
assume it will be 2.5 hrs to allow for bathroom and coffee breaks...
yes...they bill you for those too...better hope it's only peeing,
otherwise you'll be billed for the "paperwork")...$375
Composition (attorneys think and write slow...2 hrs)... $300
Paralegal review to verify accuracy (4 hrs @ $50/hr)...$200
Typing by Exec Admin Asst (1 hr min @ $30/hr)...$30
Review of typed document and signing by attorney
(they read slow too...1 hr)...$150
Certified Overnight Delivery, 1 oz letter...$30
Total for letter, that may, since the kid isn't "very bright" by your assessment, NOT scare him anyway...$1,235 (and that's a low ball estimate)

Pay the kid and move on hun.......

Babagirls · 08-27-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicone

yeah.. asking the keyboard lawyers here will get you the best advice ever

didnt you know that all GFY'ers are ex-lawyers?

kenny · 08-27-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetginger

digital documents such as emails are admissible as evidenciary material (regardless of whether it is small claims, civil, family or criminal court)...if you lose, you may have to pay not only the $400, but also his court costs as well as your's...and if you consult an attorney, you will also have to pay that attorney for it and all attorneys bill at a 1 hr minimum for 1st hr...regardless of even if it only takes 5 minms to consult him/her (the FREE 1st consultaion is a myth)...oregon is a state where attorneys get in the $150/hr range...so even w/o court costs...if you lose, you are already looking at a minimum of $400-$550....plus there's always the "opening a can of worms" situation, where the question is put forth in open court..."what exactly was this enterprise about??? PORN???" in the possible presence of a representative of the ADA, a cop or 2 (even if not involved in the case, there is always a rep of the ADA present and usually a cop or 2 too, as in the bailiffs) and definitely the judge...wouldn't it be cheaper, wiser and in your best interest to eat the $400 and chalk it up as a learning experience to look at work samples, draw up an expectation of results contract and avoid a mess like this in the future??? I think so.........

Nice font color!

sweetginger · 08-27-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mike

Kid is bluffing. Have a legal council write you up a mean letter and mail it to him certified. That will scare him enough. Or just pay him and write it off as a loss.

Either way, no one wants to get beat up for money, but it is only 400 bucks. Good luck.

Additional Note: A "Mean Letter" is considered extortionary...No attorney will write one...

For last time...pay the kid and move on...

sweetginger · 08-27-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

Nice font color!

lol...I like it too...

Rantan · 08-29-2005, 07:57 PM

I've decided to ignore him, he was totally uncommunicative for about 2 months until he popped back up asking for money. he doesn?t have my home address or my full name, just my home phone, which is unlisted. so i bet he'll have a hard time tracking me down and getting me served. plus, if this does go to court, the only thing he's pointing to is the ad i posted in the first place looking for a coder, the ad no longer exists, and it wasn?t a contract anyway. so I think he's SOL. LOL

tony286 · 08-29-2005, 08:09 PM

You go cheap and then you are surprised of the poor quality work you get and then want to not pay the kid for his work he did do on your behalf.

08-27-2005, 01:21 AM	#1
Rantan Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland ,OR Posts: 714	what's legal in court? some poor college student coder is hassling me and my friend about paying him for some half-ass job he did on a project we needed done, needless to say he fucked it up and we didnt use what he gave us. now he's threating to take us to small claims court, i was wondering what's legal as evidance in a court like that? becuase the only record we have as far as communication is MSN logs and a few sorted e-mails. no we're no trying to fuck over some high school kid just so we dont have to pay him the 400 he wants. he didnt do the work we aggred to and arnt paying him a cent. i was wondering if he had any case givin the evidance? __________________ www.jesusjohnson.com

08-27-2005, 01:26 AM	#2
sicone Retired Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sac Posts: 18,453	yeah.. asking the keyboard lawyers here will get you the best advice ever I understand its small calims court and no lawyers are needed, however it may very well be worth the price of a consultation with one for advice. or just pay the kid the 400, if you loose will cost you much more in the long run and with this, learn the lesson of contracts __________________

08-27-2005, 03:07 AM	#5
3M TA3 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 2,972	even though small claims courts do not require a lawyer, most will allow it. if you bring a lawyer to court with you the other side has the right to do the same. sometimes threatening the use of a lawer in small claims court is enough to scare them off, however, if it does go to trial, don't take a lawer. More importantly, if the kid is in high school, what age does he have to be to sue you without his parents? __________________ Dedicated and colo hosting: ICQ 291313057 "A problem cannot be solved from the same consciousness that created it. We must learn to see the world anew." - Albert Einstein

08-27-2005, 03:09 AM	#6
iBanker Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego, moving to Portland. Posts: 2,758	Been there...small claims that is...once.....won......the only other time the shithead did not show up (neither did we) and we won.......lol __________________ www.JasonandAlex.com Christopher's ICQ: 268-843-170

08-27-2005, 11:56 AM	#17
Doc911 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: If i was up your ass you'd know Posts: 3,695	so what did you decide to do? might be cheaper and easier to just pay him __________________ For PHP/MySQL scripts ICQ 161480555 or email [email protected]

08-27-2005, 01:30 AM	#3
Rantan Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland ,OR Posts: 714	i was just wondering if anyone had been in this situation..or knew if digital documents were legal in court? he doesnt have a case to begin with

08-27-2005, 03:14 AM	#9
Alky Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 5,651	pay the kid his money and write it off as a loss.

08-27-2005, 04:12 AM	#11
Antonio Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spartaaaaaaaaa Posts: 14,136	this is what you do get out on the street, walk untill you see a guy wearing truck suit, has at least 3 gold chains, and speaks with heavy Eastern European accent, give him $200.00, you'll never hear from the kid again

08-27-2005, 04:54 AM	#12
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	as I understand it, logs from chat programs are only legal if the chat programs logs the conversation by default. If you have to enable a special logging feature or use a thirdparty program to log the conversation, that would be illegal.....

08-27-2005, 04:59 AM	#14
drama Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 847	Take it to court. The kid never completed the project. The judge willbe like "You never finished the project and you expect to be paid?" and most likely throw his claim out right there.

08-27-2005, 07:11 AM	#15
Mr. Mike Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 913	Kid is bluffing. Have a legal council write you up a mean letter and mail it to him certified. That will scare him enough. Or just pay him and write it off as a loss. Either way, no one wants to get beat up for money, but it is only 400 bucks. Good luck.

08-27-2005, 11:44 AM	#16
Rantan Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland ,OR Posts: 714	thanks everyone..i learned alot..i guess you arnt all full of shit! ;) i was reading about how to even get something like this started..he's going to have to pay 50 to 100 bucks to even get this started..even if it doesnt go to court

08-29-2005, 07:57 PM	#23
Rantan Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portland ,OR Posts: 714	I've decided to ignore him, he was totally uncommunicative for about 2 months until he popped back up asking for money. he doesn?t have my home address or my full name, just my home phone, which is unlisted. so i bet he'll have a hard time tracking me down and getting me served. plus, if this does go to court, the only thing he's pointing to is the ad i posted in the first place looking for a coder, the ad no longer exists, and it wasn?t a contract anyway. so I think he's SOL. LOL Last edited by Rantan; 08-29-2005 at 07:58 PM.. Reason: mis-spelled some stuff

08-29-2005, 08:09 PM	#24
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	You go cheap and then you are surprised of the poor quality work you get and then want to not pay the kid for his work he did do on your behalf.