Sponsors supporting hacked password sites!

[dcortez]

I recently got a notice from a sponsor that they are offering a program to 'hacked password' site operators.

I blew a gasket. Am I overreacting?

As far as my experience, password sites are major pain in the ass and huge expense to web operators.

What do you think?

Would you guys support a sponsor who was supporting and promoting through 'hacked password' sites?

BTW, aren't fake stolen passwords an outdated marketing ploy?

-Dino

[bringer]

i sell cheap stolen fake passwords

[Spunky]

That's fucked up..I would be pissed off too

[TDF]

some sponsors make special pages for password sites,its not uncommon

[QuaWee]

sorry, but how much does your gallery builder cost?

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by toodamnfli

some sponsors make special pages for password sites,its not uncommon

But how can a sponsor consider themselves 'honest' (and this one claims to be) while promoting:

- credit card fraud
- theft of content (copyright violations)
- criminal hacking

Rather than do everything they can to put hacked password sites out of business, doesn't encouraging and rewarding them by sharing revenues (or resources) with them only help keep them alive?

That's totally messed up.

That same enabling logic would suggest that 'honest' anti-virus solutions developers can introduce viruses which makes the problem worse (but their bottom line better) without tarnishing their integrity.

I think that is total BS.

-Dino

[fris]

Originally Posted by dcortez

But how can a sponsor consider themselves 'honest' (and this one claims to be) while promoting:

- credit card fraud
- theft of content (copyright violations)
- criminal hacking

Rather than do everything they can to put hacked password sites out of business, doesn't encouraging and rewarding them by sharing revenues (or resources) with them only help keep them alive?

That's totally messed up.

That same enabling logic would suggest that 'honest' anti-virus solutions developers can introduce viruses which makes the problem worse (but their bottom line better) without tarnishing their integrity.

I think that is total BS.

-Dino

we have shut down many password forums, but by the time they get shut down they buy new hosting and get setup again.

the majority of password irc channels was on dalnet. our company got them shutdown which caused 35 channels to be moved to a different server.

they all move. you stop them they will get up again.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by fris

we have shut down many password forums, but by the time they get shut down they buy new hosting and get setup again.

the majority of password irc channels was on dalnet. our company got them shutdown which caused 35 channels to be moved to a different server.

they all move. you stop them they will get up again.

There is no questioning the monumental task of dealing with hack sites.

Just as parasites, they seem to persist. When high profile sponsors start supporting these hack sites by engaging in symbiotic relationships with them they nourish the parasites rather than squash them - after all, by feeding them free passwords to 'controlled' areas, they can guarantee their own protection from being hacked by these sites.

The little guys on the other hand, have to endure every hack and exploit against their sites funded by the sponsors, and in many cases by their own traffic if they support those sponsors.

Besides, how can you trust a sponsor with your confidential information if they work with those who deal in stolen intellectual property?

Today, I challenged my sponsor on their intention to work with password hack sites and I closed my account. Then in less than a few hours, something happened. Something very bad. Something which is now under investigation.

As soon as all the evidence is in, I may have more to share about this.

In the meantime, are we in a minority when we don't take a supportive or complacent view of password sites?

-Dino

[TheSaint]

It cost me under $1,000 to develop a custom program to block password sharing, and that was for a high end solution. It doesn't surprise me that sponser programs work with crack sites to seed them with fake usernames, and even if they didn't, one thousand password sharing sites would thrive.

Software solutions to block password sharing are just a cost of doing business on the web, like antivirus or spam filtering.

I agree the password crack sites are thieves, but ask yourself if you have ever in your life used an unlicensed copy of any piece of software, which is the same thing.

[pxxx]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

I agree the password crack sites are thieves, but ask yourself if you have ever in your life used an unlicensed copy of any piece of software, which is the same thing.

very true, i am sure there are some songs or some of your favorite artist album laying on your harddrive somewhere and you did not pay a dime for it. Samething he means here.


I do NOT support them, but it does come out to the samething that the people in the music industry is trying to fight off.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

It doesn't surprise me that sponser programs work with crack sites to seed them with fake usernames, and even if they didn't, one thousand password sharing sites would thrive...

I agree the password crack sites are thieves, but ask yourself if you have ever in your life used an unlicensed copy of any piece of software, which is the same thing.

Interesting point of view.

I think that logic has a very slippery slope and can be self-fulfilling.

I doubt any of us are 'angels' when put under the 'moral microscope' - every closet has skeletons.

When it comes to instilling trust in affiliates, something very important to sponsors (with all the cheating which has been historically associated with quite a few), anything less than a shining example of ethics and practices sets off the old red flags.

Sponsors marketing themselves as an 'honest' programs, to me, suggest that a deliberately added effort to demonstrate ethical practices and 'honest' alliances is in action.

-Dino

[Braincash Fred]

Who is the sponsor?

[IceMaster]

I wouldnt promote sites what offers hacked passwords.

[The Other Steve]

Whether you like it or not, think it's honest or not, accept it or not, do business with the sponsors ever again or not - it happens and it's been happening for years.

You either live with it or find some other industry to work in because you won't change it.

Sponsors are in this business to make money and using the password sites to their advantage is one way of them making money and lots of them do it and they don't care whether you like it or not.

As for the problems it brings on the small paysite owners - been there done that - there's software to deal with it and the cost of the software is just a cost of doing business.

[TheSaint]

Originally Posted by dcortez

Interesting point of view.

I think that logic has a very slippery slope and can be self-fulfilling.

I doubt any of us are 'angels' when put under the 'moral microscope' - every closet has skeletons.

When it comes to instilling trust in affiliates, something very important to sponsors (with all the cheating which has been historically associated with quite a few), anything less than a shining example of ethics and practices sets off the old red flags.

Sponsors marketing themselves as an 'honest' programs, to me, suggest that a deliberately added effort to demonstrate ethical practices and 'honest' alliances is in action.

-Dino

If you have never downloaded an mp3 or a program crack, than you certainly have a right to be morally outraged.

Side note - there is some question how much $ is actually lost. Many of the people visiting passsord crack sites would absolutely never buy a membership anyway - its an alternative to free galleries to them. I'm discounting the bandwidth wasted - with charges of less than 10 cents per gig now it costs me 20 cents for a freeloader to suck 2 gigs out a website.

Not saying its right and I fully expect to burn in hell someday for that Stones mp3 I downloaded in 2001, but its not going to change no matter what we do so I got used to it and put in tools to block the password trading.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

If you have never downloaded an mp3 or a program crack, than you certainly have a right to be morally outraged.

I haven't. Either. Ever.

Besides, mp3 is too poor quality and program cracks can't be trusted

Further, for many of my development projects, I have purchased multiple copies of large ticket software packages - to be used by multiple developers (under the same roof). Maybe being a developer myself 'messes up' my ability to rationalize association with criminal sites as being ok 'cause everybody else does it.

Just because you can wear a condom and practice safe sex, does that mean we should stop worrying about HIV/AIDS and not try to reduce it as a problem?

-Dino

[Fuckin Bill]

Very simple scripts can be used to kill stolen passwords instantly. It's not a very complicated process. You monitor logins, when login is used by more than 1 IP address at a time, you kill it. It's that simple. You don't need crazy high end programs or programming wizards.

Many people would be surprised to see who's actually running some of those sites and channels and forums.

They are a nuisance to some, but if you work them correctly, you can make good money off their traffic, just like any other adult site.

As for security and "hacking" concerns. That should not be something you need to be reminded about. Your servers should be secure, all the way down to the operating system, not just the scripts on it. You're running a business, and just like any other business you have to keep it secure.

If you have a brick & mortar store, you don't leave cash laying on the counter and expect people to be honest and leave it there when they walk by. If you put up a site and don't take the time to learn what you're doing and secure it, it's just like opening a jewelry store with no locks on the front door.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by Fuckin Bill

Very simple scripts can be used to kill stolen passwords instantly. It's not a very complicated process. You monitor logins, when login is used by more than 1 IP address at a time, you kill it. It's that simple. You don't need crazy high end programs or programming wizards.

Many people would be surprised to see who's actually running some of those sites and channels and forums.

They are a nuisance to some, but if you work them correctly, you can make good money off their traffic, just like any other adult site.

As for security and "hacking" concerns. That should not be something you need to be reminded about. Your servers should be secure, all the way down to the operating system, not just the scripts on it. You're running a business, and just like any other business you have to keep it secure.

If you have a brick & mortar store, you don't leave cash laying on the counter and expect people to be honest and leave it there when they walk by. If you put up a site and don't take the time to learn what you're doing and secure it, it's just like opening a jewelry store with no locks on the front door.

A 'simple script' may be helpful in detecting and managing shared passwords, but there is NO script to avoid the system resources used by endless brute force (virtually DOS) attacks (part of the hacked password experience) - not to mention the viruses which are constantly put out there just to steal your information. And yes, anti-virus software will fix that too - USUALLY, but NOT always.

You can have the best AV software on the planet and incoming trojans can still bog your system down to the point of freezing.

What I find almost more interesting than the issue itself is how the majority of responses on this board (for this issue and others involving best practices and ethics) consistently support and rationalize warez, hackers, and illegal sites as an unstoppable fact of adult webmasterhood and of no consequence to anyone properly suited up - if you get nailed, it's your fault (stupid).

I do know this is not a matter of anti-hack site folks not speaking up, because I'm hearing a totally different story in another discussion of this very same topic (webmasters loudly condemning any sponsor involved in any way with illegal sites and/or activities).

I don't know if this has to do with differences in age, experience and business acumen, but the crowd here certainly has a consistent posture when it comes to issues like this.

-Dino

[Fuckin Bill]

Originally Posted by dcortez

A 'simple script' may be helpful in detecting and managing shared passwords, but there is NO script to avoid the system resources used by endless brute force (virtually DOS) attacks (part of the hacked password experience) - not to mention the viruses which are constantly put out there just to steal your information. And yes, anti-virus software will fix that too - USUALLY, but NOT always.

Yes there are scripts that will stop that sort of thing. Look up APF firewall. It'll run on any linux server and is free. It'll stop just about any kind of abuse on a server from brute force and DDOS attacks. Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are also other scripts that will work for more specific purposes, tailored to adult webmasters and paysites.

Originally Posted by dcortez

You can have the best AV software on the planet and incoming trojans can still bog your system down to the point of freezing.

I don't know if I misunderstood this part or what, but if your system is bogging down to the point of freezing because of emails, you've got something REALLY REALLY wrong with your setup.

Originally Posted by dcortez

What I find almost more interesting than the issue itself is how the majority of responses on this board (for this issue and others involving best practices and ethics) consistently support and rationalize warez, hackers, and illegal sites as an unstoppable fact of adult webmasterhood and of no consequence to anyone properly suited up - if you get nailed, it's your fault (stupid).

The bottom line is that your own security is your own problem. There have been hackers since before there was an internet. If you think you or anyone else is going to stop them, you're out of your mind. If you open a store, build it in a bad location, and don't lock all the doors and turn on the alarm before you leave at night, you deserve to be robbed.

I say the same thing to people that bitch about viruses. I've worked with computers for more than 20 years now. I've NEVER lost a SINGLE file on any system I've owned to any virus. And that's because I protect myself. I learn, I watch, I adapt, and I take common sense precautions.

I'm not trying to lay any kind of personal blame on you. But the arguement that "these people need to be stopped" is insane. Porn sites trying to stop hackers from wanting passwords will never be any more effective than the media industries trying to stop file sharing. It simply can't be done. You can bitch all you want about it, but in the end, the only way to make the problem stop is to secure your own servers and sites. There will still be problems for others, but if you set your stuff up correctly, you won't even notice they exist.

[SomeCreep]

IMO, sponsors should not support hacked password sites. If they do, they're just asking for trouble, because hacked password sites are a breeding ground for minors, people with stolen credit cards, and hackers/crackers.

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by Fuckin Bill

Yes there are scripts that will stop that sort of thing. Look up APF firewall. It'll run on any linux server and is free. It'll stop just about any kind of abuse on a server from brute force and DDOS attacks. Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are also other scripts that will work for more specific purposes, tailored to adult webmasters and paysites.


I don't know if I misunderstood this part or what, but if your system is bogging down to the point of freezing because of emails, you've got something REALLY REALLY wrong with your setup.


The bottom line is that your own security is your own problem. There have been hackers since before there was an internet. If you think you or anyone else is going to stop them, you're out of your mind. If you open a store, build it in a bad location, and don't lock all the doors and turn on the alarm before you leave at night, you deserve to be robbed.

I say the same thing to people that bitch about viruses. I've worked with computers for more than 20 years now. I've NEVER lost a SINGLE file on any system I've owned to any virus. And that's because I protect myself. I learn, I watch, I adapt, and I take common sense precautions.

I'm not trying to lay any kind of personal blame on you. But the arguement that "these people need to be stopped" is insane. Porn sites trying to stop hackers from wanting passwords will never be any more effective than the media industries trying to stop file sharing. It simply can't be done. You can bitch all you want about it, but in the end, the only way to make the problem stop is to secure your own servers and sites. There will still be problems for others, but if you set your stuff up correctly, you won't even notice they exist.

You have made your point of view quite clear.

Setting aside your comments that my technical incompetence is to blame for any 'unpleasantness' I may experience courtesy of hack password sites, I disagree with your reasoning and I doubt we (you/me) will get any further than that.

Thanks,
-Dino

[Mefo]

most of those are fake anyway, lots of big sponsor progs give out fake passes and make some mad cash out of it.....

[dcortez]

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

IMO, sponsors should not support hacked password sites. If they do, they're just asking for trouble, because hacked password sites are a breeding ground for minors, people with stolen credit cards, and hackers/crackers.

I agree

This whole notion of 'fake' or 'real' hacked password site is bogus and moot.

Even if the password site is dispensing 'fake stolen passwords', they are doing so in an environment of PROMOTING password theft/sharing, hacking, copyright violation, credit card fraud, virus attacks and other criminal acts.

Giving away 'fake stolen passwords' under the roof of an illegal site is not a step in the right direction - especially for a larger enterprise.

Look at other (matured) industries and how they deal with serious issues.

For example, regardless of how many bootlegged and pirated copies of (mainstream) movie DVDs and videos there are out there, the big players are not using that as an excuse to support the bootleggers - instead they launch costly awareness and promotional campaigns aimed at the industry and consumers to deal with the problem. Further, they lobby for laws to help (not hinder) their industry.

Why is there such a difference in approach?

Is adult industry really the sleazy free-for-all you all seem to be suggesting?

I sure hope not.

-Dino

[Project-Shadow]

I'm for sponsors that allow password traffic personally.
They are the ones who will ultimately suffer, when they are constantly brute forced, but fustrated surfers will give up looking for a password and signup. [At least that's the idea behind it]

It's all a case of personal preference though.

[High_Times]

Originally Posted by Project-Shadow

I'm for sponsors that allow password traffic personally.
They are the ones who will ultimately suffer, when they are constantly brute forced, but fustrated surfers will give up looking for a password and signup. [At least that's the idea behind it]

It's all a case of personal preference though.

That all depends, read further,

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=459989

[ry0t]

babylon x was the worst

[Rui]

Originally Posted by TDF

some sponsors make special pages for password sites,its not uncommon

I would say its normal

I pity the fools that someway or another endup buying that traffic (belive me most is resold...)

[AP-Zep]

Originally Posted by ry0t

babylon x was the worst

Babylon-X never supported hacked password sites! "The password terrorist" was simply a dialer page, and nothing stolen was given away. You may accuse BX of making a pop-up hell, but they never supported illegal activities!

[Matt_WildCash]

Password sites are not like they used to be, they are harmless and are just listing bullshit fake sites that are usually built like TGP galleries specially so the pass sites will list them.

Then of course there are the Password forums and those are bad very bad, don't mistake the 2 of them.

[Fletch XXX]

you can really tell who is not webmasters.

let me clue you in.

PAY SITES HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH PASSWORD SITE OWNERS FOR YEARS.

[Matt_WildCash]

Originally Posted by dcortez

I agree

This whole notion of 'fake' or 'real' hacked password site is bogus and moot.

Even if the password site is dispensing 'fake stolen passwords', they are doing so in an environment of PROMOTING password theft/sharing, hacking, copyright violation, credit card fraud, virus attacks and other criminal acts.

Giving away 'fake stolen passwords' under the roof of an illegal site is not a step in the right direction - especially for a larger enterprise.

Look at other (matured) industries and how they deal with serious issues.

For example, regardless of how many bootlegged and pirated copies of (mainstream) movie DVDs and videos there are out there, the big players are not using that as an excuse to support the bootleggers - instead they launch costly awareness and promotional campaigns aimed at the industry and consumers to deal with the problem. Further, they lobby for laws to help (not hinder) their industry.

Why is there such a difference in approach?

Is adult industry really the sleazy free-for-all you all seem to be suggesting?

I sure hope not.

-Dino

LOL, so are you saying that people promoting via TGP's are bad as well as they are promoting free porn and thats bad for kids who can watch it and bad for the industry cause its giving away so much free porn people don't need it?

Or are you saying that all smart webmasters promoting and making money off P2P programs are bad too? where people are downloading huge amounts of copyright movies and since they are trying to make money off it then they are just as bad?

Please lets all just go back to making money in whatever way we can, as long as what your doing isn't hurting anybody then its all good business. Password sites are so lame, I don't even care if our passes are even listed on forums most of the time our software kills them so fast and then its just free promotions for our sites. They make us more money they can cost us.

[sumphatpimp]

just got to love the Noobs!

LMFAO!