If someone hits you in the face with a bat...

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  • dij
    Confirmed User
    • May 2003
    • 2163
    #1

    If someone hits you in the face with a bat...

    and then you stab him, can it be considered as a self defense?

    We recently got into a fight with about 5-6 people at the house party, beat the shit out of them.. after some time they came back with more people with bats and bb guns. Some of my friends got hit with the bat in the face and shot a few times with bbgun, nothing serious tho. So I am just wondering, in a fight like that if you pull out a knife and stab one of the attackers can it be considered a self defense?
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    • killerkay
      Confirmed User
      • Mar 2005
      • 1482
      #2
      id think so


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        • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
          best designer on GFY
          • Mar 2003
          • 30307
          #3
          Nice nieghborhood.

          Maybe you should just upgrade from Knives to a nice Smith and Wesson 9MM.

            Comment

            • dij
              Confirmed User
              • May 2003
              • 2163
              #4
              It's actually a really peaceful nieghborhood, and I have little knowledge about law so I need to know more before I get anything.

              btw, this is in Canada, so Canadian laws apply

                Comment

                • AbulletAway
                  Confirmed User
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 760
                  #5
                  Wow. If someone comes at you with a bat and you pull out a gun and shoot them dead you're gonna go to jail. At least in California you will. However, you will more than likely be released with in 48 hours after the DA reviews the case and sees that it was self defense. And, yes. You can use a knife to defend yourself. It doesn't matter if someone has a bat or not. If you are attacked you can defend yourself and if you happen to have a knife and they have a bat oh well. though, personally I would rather have a bat than a knife. But whaterver works for you.

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                    • tristan_D
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 7865
                      #6
                      self defense will only be valid if it would be established that you did not provoke the other person to attack you. well I'm not a lawyer.
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                        • Nylz
                          Confirmed User
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 8285
                          #7
                          Originally posted by AlienQ
                          Nice nieghborhood.

                          Maybe you should just upgrade from Knives to a nice Smith and Wesson 9MM.
                          yeah! that's the solution!



                          No sig.

                            Comment

                            • dij
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2003
                              • 2163
                              #8
                              Originally posted by tristan_D
                              self defense will only be valid if it would be established that you did not provoke the other person to attack you. well I'm not a lawyer.
                              I am also interested what is exactly meant by "provoked".
                              A few word exchanges, but they threw the first punch, i think would mean they provoked it.

                                Comment

                                • WarChild
                                  Let slip the dogs of war.
                                  • Jan 2003
                                  • 17263
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by Nylz
                                  yeah! that's the solution!



                                  I prefer SIG .40 cal myself.

                                  .

                                    Comment

                                    • Jarmusch
                                       
                                      • May 2003
                                      • 12479
                                      #10
                                      Yes it can be considered self-defense. And when the police arrives you can say "I'm glad I killed the bastard".

                                        Comment

                                        • baddog
                                          So Fucking Banned
                                          • Apr 2001
                                          • 107089
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by AbulletAwayGoneBad
                                          though, personally I would rather have a bat than a knife. But whaterver works for you.
                                          no doubt . . . . and yeah, self-defense . . . unless . . . you have some weird laws about certain types of knives, and you used one of them.

                                          But the HA did get off for knifing a guy with a gun. It just took time and money.

                                            Comment

                                            • Jakke PNG
                                              ex-TeenGodFather
                                              • Nov 2001
                                              • 20306
                                              #12
                                              I think in finland there's a rule for excessive force. Not 100% sure how it goes, but it's something like.. if someone attacks you with bare knuckles, you cannot use any objects to hit him or it could be excessive force.. if someone attacks you with a baseball bat, you can't shoot them etc.. not quite sure how to compare knife and bat lol. I guess every place has it's own set of rules and shit.. up to the judges I'd imagine.
                                              ..and I'm off.

                                                Comment

                                                • Nylz
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Apr 2004
                                                  • 8285
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by WarChild
                                                  I prefer SIG .40 cal myself.

                                                  No sig.

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                                                    • reynold
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                      • 51271
                                                      #14
                                                      it's called a homicide but i am not sure.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • PixeLs
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Jul 2005
                                                          • 11922
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by dij
                                                          and then you stab him, can it be considered as a self defense?

                                                          We recently got into a fight with about 5-6 people at the house party, beat the shit out of them.. after some time they came back with more people with bats and bb guns. Some of my friends got hit with the bat in the face and shot a few times with bbgun, nothing serious tho. So I am just wondering, in a fight like that if you pull out a knife and stab one of the attackers can it be considered a self defense?
                                                          yes, and you can counter charge them with trespassing, serious physical injury, and attempted murder.

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                                                            • Mr-No
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Oct 2001
                                                              • 698
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by dij
                                                              and then you stab him, can it be considered as a self defense?

                                                              We recently got into a fight with about 5-6 people at the house party, beat the shit out of them.. after some time they came back with more people with bats and bb guns. Some of my friends got hit with the bat in the face and shot a few times with bbgun, nothing serious tho. So I am just wondering, in a fight like that if you pull out a knife and stab one of the attackers can it be considered a self defense?
                                                              Well, depends...
                                                              If that happened in your house, or house of some of your friends, then, yes.
                                                              Otherwise, if Canadian laws are at least a little similar to continental EU laws, then it isn't so easy to give answer.
                                                              Did you verbally provoke attack or not that doesn't matter at all, because if you verbally provoke somebody he can simply go away... There is no self defense in case of verbal attack (maybe some other things as "affect").
                                                              If you attacked first, then everything about self defense can be used on your opponent.
                                                              In accident which you describe, your opponents don't have self defense case, because they already had possibility to evade (I mean after first fight they get away form that house, maybe affect). When they return to the house with bats they are becoming attackers. So:
                                                              First, did you have possibility to run? I mean, you were been in corner with no way to escape? Threat was been so serious that you was been afraid for your life (e.g. 5 years old kid with bat isn't serious threat to adult), or life your close relatives?
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                                                                • dij
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                  • 2163
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by Mr-No
                                                                  Well, depends...
                                                                  If that happened in your house, or house of some of your friends, then, yes.
                                                                  Otherwise, if Canadian laws are at least a little similar to continental EU laws, then it isn't so easy to give answer.
                                                                  Did you verbally provoke attack or not that doesn't matter at all, because if you verbally provoke somebody he can simply go away... There is no self defense in case of verbal attack (maybe some other things as "affect").
                                                                  If you attacked first, then everything about self defense can be used on your opponent.
                                                                  In accident which you describe, your opponents don't have self defense case, because they already had possibility to evade (I mean after first fight they get away form that house, maybe affect). When they return to the house with bats they are becoming attackers. So:
                                                                  First, did you have possibility to run? I mean, you were been in corner with no way to escape? Threat was been so serious that you was been afraid for your life (e.g. 5 years old kid with bat isn't serious threat to adult), or life your close relatives?

                                                                  I see what you mean.
                                                                  Well, it was difficult evade the attack as it came from the backyard and there was a possibility to run into the house but I don't think it would help. Threat was serious, and I was afraid for the lives of my friends.

                                                                  I understand that there isn't a straight yes or no answer, but this gave me a better understanding of what self defense is.
                                                                  Thanks

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • WarChild
                                                                      Let slip the dogs of war.
                                                                      • Jan 2003
                                                                      • 17263
                                                                      #18
                                                                      If people come to a party looking for a fight and get one, I'd say that's more of a mutual combat situation than self defense. You can't lose a fight and claim assault if you were a willing participant.

                                                                      Funny story, many, many years ago I got in to it with somebody in traffic. They got out of their car, called me out of mine, got hit a few times and tried to press assault charges. Luckily there were a ton of witnesses and the cops called it Mutual Combat and just moved on.
                                                                      .

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                                                                        • LittleSassy
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • May 2005
                                                                          • 7402
                                                                          #19
                                                                          think so....


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                                                                            • EroticySteve
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Mar 2005
                                                                              • 4365
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Ron Burgundy: Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast!
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                                                                                • StuartD
                                                                                  Sofa King Band
                                                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                                                  • 29903
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Sounds like:

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                                                                                    • Scott McD
                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                      • Nov 2002
                                                                                      • 67798
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      When's the next house party ??


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                                                                                        • SetTheWorldonFire
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Feb 2002
                                                                                          • 7444
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Where I grew up, we went to jail. Self defense, haha

                                                                                          It's called a gang related crimes
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                                                                                            • xNetworx
                                                                                              So Fucking What
                                                                                              • Jan 2004
                                                                                              • 14445
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              If somebody even swings a bat at your head, you can blow their fucking head off. In Arizona at least

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                                                                                                • Deej
                                                                                                  I make pixels work
                                                                                                  • Jun 2005
                                                                                                  • 24386
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Gettem pony boy, gettem for soda pop!

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                                                                                                    • DarkJedi
                                                                                                      No Refunds Issued.
                                                                                                      • Feb 2001
                                                                                                      • 28301
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      If i hit you in the face with a baseball bat, the best case scenario is that you'd be on your way to an emergency room, much less be able to pull a knife.

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                                                                                                        • cool1
                                                                                                          sex is good
                                                                                                          • Sep 2001
                                                                                                          • 24939
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          You would get arrested and it would be up to the Crown to decide if it was self defense or not.
                                                                                                          So you would sit in remand for awhile, either way.

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                                                                                                            • Downtime
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • May 2004
                                                                                                              • 7320
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              sounds like a fun party, and yes that would be self-defense
                                                                                                              #27024067

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                                                                                                                • je_rome
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                  • 6846
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by WarChild
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                                                                                                                    • kektex
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                                                                      • 1813
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Dunno but I think you would have to take a bat to the face first and THEN stab him...how are you gonna prove he was going to hit you?
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                                                                                                                        • StatsJunky
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                          • 639
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Im pretty sure they judge it by the threat.

                                                                                                                          So if a 220 pound guy is attacking someone thats 150 pounds then they smaller guy would probably get off stabbing or hitting the guy with a bat. Since there is a limited chance that he could he defend himself with only his hands.
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                                                                                                                            • seeric
                                                                                                                              ..........
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                              • 41917
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              what kind of adult carries around a BB gun? damn, thats a little juvenile. real guns must be a little much for them, little do they know that the law still considers a BB gun a firearm.

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                                                                                                                                • sfera
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                  • 8597
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  it is assualt with a deadly weapon. An expample: my friend who has a black belt in TeaKwonDo fucked up 6 people with bats who wanted to beat him up for no reason. His martial arts skills were considered deadly weapons. He got 6 weeks in jail. Now that is fucked up.

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                                                                                                                                    • HorseShit
                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                      • 17513
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      i love guns

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                                                                                                                                        • sicone
                                                                                                                                          Retired
                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                          • 18453
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          BB Guns?

                                                                                                                                          Forgive me for just a moment....

                                                                                                                                          and now on to the question, yes it is self defense, however the friend may still be charged with carrying the knife?

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                                                                                                                                            • reed_4
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                              • 9640
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              i really hate violent neighbours 'coz they really cause alot of trouble.

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                                                                                                                                                • throwdown
                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                                  • 997
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  pull out the 9

                                                                                                                                                  load up the clip

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                                                                                                                                                  into those crazy fools

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                                                                                                                                                    • tony299
                                                                                                                                                      lurker
                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                      • 57021
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      the best thing to do is not let it get to that point .

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • PixeLs
                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                                          • 11922
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by sfera
                                                                                                                                                          it is assualt with a deadly weapon. An expample: my friend who has a black belt in TeaKwonDo fucked up 6 people with bats who wanted to beat him up for no reason. His martial arts skills were considered deadly weapons. He got 6 weeks in jail. Now that is fucked up.
                                                                                                                                                          I din't know being able to protect yourself can be charged against you.

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                                                                                                                                                            • PrintAdult
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                                              • 845
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Fuck that, I would just get in their face and see what they are made of. As JAY Z said, " Don't Flash The Steel, Blast For Real!"

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                                                                                                                                                                • PrintAdult-Sales
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                                                  • 326
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  First I have to know what started the fight in the first place?

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                                                                                                                                                                    • CherryLipsRosa
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                                      • 3603
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      I think it is considered as self-defense. Then again if you guys started the entire fight then you might not be fully exempted.
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                                                                                                                                                                        • MetaMan
                                                                                                                                                                          I AM WEB 2.0
                                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                                                          • 28682
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          i dont care about the law, someone comes at me unprovoked i am going to do whatever i can to demobalize them, whatever i have on hand gun/knife/bat, they come at me i will try to take them down the fastest way possible.

                                                                                                                                                                          i value my life more on what people "might or might not do with a bat" than jailtime.

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                                                                                                                                                                            • Babagirls
                                                                                                                                                                              Text Writer
                                                                                                                                                                              • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                              • 18812
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              technically, ya. but since its a bunch of people scrappin with each other, it'll most likely be called a homicide or murder.

                                                                                                                                                                              if you were in a grocery store & some dude put a gun to your head & your shot him first, then THATS self defense (and probably have witnesses to that). but you can never be sure who hit who, who shot/stabbed who, in a big all-out brawl. be careful.




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                                                                                                                                                                                • Jimbo
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 3989
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by kektex
                                                                                                                                                                                  Dunno but I think you would have to take a bat to the face first and THEN stab him...how are you gonna prove he was going to hit you?

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                                                                                                                                                                                    • beemk
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                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jan 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 20829
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
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                                                                                                                                                                                        • knought
                                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 316
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          What's the reason why you got into that fight?
                                                                                                                                                                                          But I think that would be a plain self defense...

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                                                                                                                                                                                            • Hardlinks
                                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 1333
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Your friend would go to jail in Canada according to the details and scenario you described above. You stated yourself you kicked the shit out of them, you would have to prove they were a continued threat to someones life to get away with stabbing since you clearly overpowered them and instigated the initial conflict.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Sounds like you guys all need time anyways, fuckin punks tossin up people homes and fighting en masse.
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