Lets have a candid discussion on illegal immigration. Stay civil.

[pr0]

Every day in america we recieve thousands of immigrants in NYC & ports around the united states. These people for the most part have escaped poverty & worked very hard to obtain the neccessary papers to become a u.s. citizen. They've learned our history, our language & they know more about U.S. history than 99% of the born population here in America.

These people are the future of the united states, they are the doctors from inda & pakistan, the clinical diagnostic workers from romania & bulgaria. All a great contribution to our country & just goes to show that we still follow "Give us your weak, your poor, your hungry".

They all sign their names on papers, get issued green cards & eventually (if they don't commit a crime) & follow the rules are allowed to become permanent residents. Its a great thing, & its how must of our ancestors got here (with the exception of me, i'm a native).

Now on the other hand, at our southern border we have an influx of unskilled laborers, non-english speaking people, possible criminals, drug smugglers, escaped convicts, rapist & theives crossing into our border illegally. They don't sign their name on the roster, they don't get their green card. They don't follow the rules.

Now this 2nd type of immigration has some serious effects on the u.s. economy.

#1 - in order to stay in america, one must obtain a fake id, incase their spot checked on a construction site lets say...the information on this id was most likely obtained by a hacker, & it could be your mom or dads SS#.

These id's can be used to obtain car leases, credit cards, bank accounts & destroy credit.

Take a drive into the latino neighborhoods in L.A. & just look for the guy holding up an L with his hand, thumb out & pointer finger up. He can get you a social security card, drivers liscense & birth certificate.

#2 - an illegal female immigrant entering the united states who is pregnant, & gives birth on american soil, automatically becomes a citizen of the united states along with her child, & is then eligible for free health care, WIC cards (food stamps for her & her child) & public housing.

#3 - Manual labor prices decrease, sending american construction workers, sheet rock layers, & roofers off the job. These were good paying jobs at one point, $20-30 an hour, now undercut by illegal immigrants that can easily be picked up at 7-11.


Final point: I got nothing but love for my latino, chinese, & european brothers. If you wan to come into america, do it by the book. Learn some english, make sure you know a trade, being it digging ditches or network admin. Pay your tax's, & don't steal other peoples identities. Also please abide by community housing standards, single family homes are called "single family homes" for a reason. It means 2-6 people. Not you & 13 of your friends.

And for those of you who say "who's going to cut the grass", you are...you lazy fucking chump. Buy a fucking lawnmower.

Who's going to pick the oranges? The same people who used to, but got outbid by their illegal immigrant counterparts.

[davecummings]

I couldn't have said it any better, no drama/subjectively---just down-to-Earth reality! Thanks!

Dave

[bllott]

Originally Posted by pr0

Every day in america we recieve thousands of immigrants in NYC & ports around the united states. These people for the most part have escaped poverty & worked very hard to obtain the neccessary papers to become a u.s. citizen. They've learned our history, our language & they know more about U.S. history than 99% of the born population here in America.

These people are the future of the united states, they are the doctors from inda & pakistan, the clinical diagnostic workers from romania & bulgaria. All a great contribution to our country & just goes to show that we still follow "Give us your weak, your poor, your hungry".

They all sign their names on papers, get issued green cards & eventually (if they don't commit a crime) & follow the rules are allowed to become permanent residents. Its a great thing, & its how must of our ancestors got here (with the exception of me, i'm a native).

Now on the other hand, at our southern border we have an influx of unskilled laborers, non-english speaking people, possible criminals, drug smugglers, escaped convicts, rapist & theives crossing into our border illegally. They don't sign their name on the roster, they don't get their green card. They don't follow the rules.

Now this 2nd type of immigration has some serious effects on the u.s. economy.

#1 - in order to stay in america, one must obtain a fake id, incase their spot checked on a construction site lets say...the information on this id was most likely obtained by a hacker, & it could be your mom or dads SS#.

These id's can be used to obtain car leases, credit cards, bank accounts & destroy credit.

Take a drive into the latino neighborhoods in L.A. & just look for the guy holding up an L with his hand, thumb out & pointer finger up. He can get you a social security card, drivers liscense & birth certificate.

#2 - an illegal female immigrant entering the united states who is pregnant, & gives birth on american soil, automatically becomes a citizen of the united states along with her child, & is then eligible for free health care, WIC cards (food stamps for her & her child) & public housing.

#3 - Manual labor prices decrease, sending american construction workers, sheet rock layers, & roofers off the job. These were good paying jobs at one point, $20-30 an hour, now undercut by illegal immigrants that can easily be picked up at 7-11.


Final point: I got nothing but love for my latino, chinese, & european brothers. If you wan to come into america, do it by the book. Learn some english, make sure you know a trade, being it digging ditches or network admin. Pay your tax's, & don't steal other peoples identities. Also please abide by community housing standards, single family homes are called "single family homes" for a reason. It means 2-6 people. Not you & 13 of your friends.

And for those of you who say "who's going to cut the grass", you are...you lazy fucking chump. Buy a fucking lawnmower.

Who's going to pick the oranges? The same people who used to, but got outbid by their illegal immigrant counterparts.

yea it all makes perfect sense.. how are you going to monitor the whole southern border?

[TheDoc]

I agree that it can suck under the current system..

But why should man tell another man where he can and can't live. It's a world we all live in, equal for each person to live off of and on. No mater the skin color, the language they speak, education, or where they are born. We build walls to keep "the bad" people out when our country is loaded with citizens that are just as bad, just as stupid, and just as lazy.

[smack]

Originally Posted by bllott

yea it all makes perfect sense.. how are you going to monitor the whole southern border?

there are more then enough red necks that would jump at the chance to do that. it has already been proven.

[Sly]

I would hate to see what would happen to our economy if illegal immigrants disappeared tomorrow.

[smack]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

But why should man tell another man where he can and can't live. It's a world we all live in, equal for each person to live off of and on. No mater the skin color, the language they speak, education, or where they are born. We build walls to keep "the bad" people out when our country is loaded with citizens that are just as bad, just as stupid, and just as lazy.

yeah that is all wonderful and idealistic and all that, but remember, there is a LEGAL and an ILLEGAL way to immigrate to this country. it baffles me how good a care we take of illegal immigrants. basically like a fuck you to the people who work hard to obtain citizenship. i don't think that is fair at all.

[NaughtyRob]

In the current situation the borders should be closed while we are are war. Period.

[seattle]

The san antonio trek. No glory hike. 3 days. 50% survival rate. Its the dream of making it that is worth dying for to them. And here we sit.. I guess we should feel bad right now

I'm over it.

God Bless all sides to this story.

[smack]

Originally Posted by ContentProducer

In the current situation the borders should be closed while we are are war. Period.

come on, that is silly, think about what you are saying. this country is made on the backs of immigrants who come here to make a better life, closing our borders is hurtful to us. not to mention the constant state of war we seem to be in would pretty much negate any further immigration, ever.

[TheDoc]

And we shouldn't close our borders to war; we shouldn't be at war with countries that did nothing directly to us. Iraq did not attack us and entire country called Afghanistan did not attack us.

[TheDoc]

As for our borders.. This country was built on immigration, illegal and legal. We have tons of very hard working very honest illegal immigrates. Mexicans should be as welcome here as Canadians. Help with an open heart rather than a closed mind.

[TheDoc]

As for speaking a different language, lets not forget our own gov won't declare an official language. Blame us before you blame them. It would be a different game if ENGLISH were the official language.


We will invade a country, bomb it, kill 1000?s of innocent people, force a way of life on people that don?t want it, take the oil they own, build them a new gov, train them to protect the citizens.. Spend billions of dollars? But we won?t take the time to help a country that is right next to us.

Why not just open the border up, maybe we will get some people with heart in this country rather than a bunch of black hearted evil fucks.

[seattle]

At least canadians can grow some decent nug though. thats a point for them. give me a counter point for the mexicans, im sure they're good for something too ! Just not sure what. It's definitely not their herbs.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by seattle

At least canadians can grow some decent nug though. thats a point for them. give me a counter point for the mexicans, im sure they're good for something too ! Just not sure what. It's definitely not their herbs.

Mexico is loaded with shit dirt-weed, true.. But it does have some good bud..

Counter.. It's cheaper

[Joe Citizen]

Originally Posted by seattle

At least canadians can grow some decent nug though. thats a point for them. give me a counter point for the mexicans, im sure they're good for something too ! Just not sure what. It's definitely not their herbs.

Tequilla?

[pr0]

I tried to be as unbias as possible in explaining my understanding of the current situation, & thats all i can say.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I agree that it can suck under the current system..

But why should man tell another man where he can and can't live. It's a world we all live in, equal for each person to live off of and on. No mater the skin color, the language they speak, education, or where they are born. We build walls to keep "the bad" people out when our country is loaded with citizens that are just as bad, just as stupid, and just as lazy.

why should we allow illegals to come into this country in droves only to put them on public assistance. people aren't going to pick fruit for $20/day when they can get $40/day on welfare watch tv and drinking budweiser in the front yard. of course we have lazy people here as well, but atleast they have a leg up on these other people. when you cant speak the language your job range isn't the best. you're stuck doing manual labor for little or no money only to be forced to seek housing subsidies and food stamps to support your enormous Catholic family.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

And we shouldn't close our borders to war; we shouldn't be at war with countries that did nothing directly to us. Iraq did not attack us and entire country called Afghanistan did not attack us.

what we should do is a massive public works project and build a fucking 20ft wall along the entire border.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

As for our borders.. This country was built on immigration, illegal and legal. We have tons of very hard working very honest illegal immigrates. Mexicans should be as welcome here as Canadians. Help with an open heart rather than a closed mind.

canadians arent here looking for a hand out. how honest can you be when your first deed in this country was a crime?

[azguy]

A day without a Mexican...

Who the fuck is going to serve me when I eat???? Some dumb ass college kid who doesn't appreciate his job and wants to go smoke pot instead of being my servant for the night? Did you think about THAT? j/k

[bringer]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

As for speaking a different language, lets not forget our own gov won't declare an official language. Blame us before you blame them. It would be a different game if ENGLISH were the official language.


We will invade a country, bomb it, kill 1000?s of innocent people, force a way of life on people that don?t want it, take the oil they own, build them a new gov, train them to protect the citizens.. Spend billions of dollars? But we won?t take the time to help a country that is right next to us.

Why not just open the border up, maybe we will get some people with heart in this country rather than a bunch of black hearted evil fucks.

i find it amusing people who visit this country or do business with it take the time to learn to communicate but people here illegal dont have the same respect. you'd think they would at least make an effort to learn english when they're getting cheap housing, welfare and food stamps because they only speak spanish and cant afford to support their family without the taxpayers help. sorry if im a bit harsh, but i spent 2 years fixing my credit because an illegal immigrant used my ss# for credit cards, utilities, and income tax. fuck them all

[azguy]

Originally Posted by bringer

but i spent 2 years fixing my credit because an illegal immigrant used my ss# for credit cards, utilities, and income tax. fuck them all

By your logic people who fall victim to identity theft by fellow Americans should just hate the entire nation

[bringer]

Originally Posted by azguy

By your logic people who fall victim to identity theft by fellow Americans should just hate the entire nation

hate whoever you want. my point is everyone who argues for these people think they're hard working people who follow the law which simply isnt the case. when they came to this country they broke the law. they buy a pos van, drive with no license and no insurance and no formal training putting everyone at risk. they use other peoples ids to get work, they live in low income areas which have high crime rates. they send their children to public school without knowing the english language requiring schools to setup alternate teaching programs just to get them caught up. im just sick of it. i was working a min wage job going to college barely getting by and everytime id goto the fucking store id buy tp and top romin and id see people with hundreds of dollars in food stamps buying the most expensive shit the store sold. then they'd get stopped for buying beer with food stamps and pull out a wad of $100's. makes me fucking sick. they know how to abuse the system and do it because people like you think they're all saints here to do work no one else wants todo.

[BradM]

There is no way to stop Illegall immigration into the US. Until you set up walls that go 200ft into the ground, and 200 ft into the sky with snipers every 100 yars, you're fucked. The USA is the light- and holds a bright future for anyone who enters it. That's the dream and that's what happens. Until Illegals are shot on the spot and that is very well known, you're going to get an influx. And even if you did shoot them on the spot some would take the risk.

If you really want to stop immigration just take the next step in your imperial campaign. Start building tanks, bombs and planes instead of foreman grills, dvd players, tvs, fridges etc. Then take them, overthrow the world and call them all "American". Problem solved.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by pr0

#1 - in order to stay in america, one must obtain a fake id, incase their spot checked on a construction site lets say...the information on this id was most likely obtained by a hacker, & it could be your mom or dads SS#.

These id's can be used to obtain car leases, credit cards, bank accounts & destroy credit.

Take a drive into the latino neighborhoods in L.A. & just look for the guy holding up an L with his hand, thumb out & pointer finger up. He can get you a social security card, drivers liscense & birth certificate.

The majority of i.d. theft is not from mexicans..

That "L" hand signal your talking about can mean any number of things ( including your a loser , no offense i'm being serious )

Originally Posted by pr0

#2 - an illegal female immigrant entering the united states who is pregnant, & gives birth on american soil, automatically becomes a citizen of the united states along with her child, & is then eligible for free health care, WIC cards (food stamps for her & her child) & public housing.

Yup.. I dont quite get your point. I think anyone born and raised in the u.s.a has just as good as chance as anyone else born and raised in the u.s.a.

Your mad because the mother gets citizenship or that they get free healthcare ?

Alot of people moan and bitch about welfare and food stamps , but in reality its such a teeny tiny miniscule amount of money compared to other things the governement spends money on..

There are alot worse wastes of money than welfare. Welfare is like paying people off that you can't find a job for.. ( and it helps create a nice cheap eager workforce )

Even in the worst case scenario , we have paid for a mother and child's healthcare and welfare , and in return we get an eager willing cheap worker who then will create twice what you spent on him/her

Originally Posted by pr0

#3 - Manual labor prices decrease, sending american construction workers, sheet rock layers, & roofers off the job. These were good paying jobs at one point, $20-30 an hour, now undercut by illegal immigrants that can easily be picked up at 7-11.

Those construction workers/sheet rock layers/roofers can now become contractors , and hire out cheap labour. Everyone just moves up the ladder one notch.. sure a few people fall off , but most people move up, ( including the immigrants eventually ) If you fall off the ladder its because there was someone better and cheaper, thats capitalism.

Originally Posted by pr0

Final point: I got nothing but love for my latino, chinese, & european brothers. If you wan to come into america, do it by the book. Learn some english, make sure you know a trade, being it digging ditches or network admin. Pay your tax's, & don't steal other peoples identities. Also please abide by community housing standards, single family homes are called "single family homes" for a reason. It means 2-6 people. Not you & 13 of your friends.

lol first you decree your love for latino's then you generalize them by saying they overcrowd their houses ?

No offense but thats a bit silly, theres tons of nationalities including americans who overcrowd houses.. your trying to tie to many things into one.. What you dont like is POVERTY, like it or not , soon america will be mostly latino's.

Its like the black argument , they are either lazy criminals , or oppresed poverty stricken and stuck in a rut.

Most likely the latino's you see overcrowding houses are legal immigrants supporting 10 families back in mexico..

Been to mexico city ? It's a shithole, they probably laugh at you thinking its overcrowded in american slums,to them its undercrowded

I understand your frustrations , but i think the majority of your arguments have plenty of other causes. There is plenty of validity in your statements , but you come off as a closet racist..

[SmokeyTheBear]

I guess what it boils down to is this..

If you built a brick wall 50 miles high and no mexicans ever came across the border anymore..

Would there still be people on foodstamps and welfare ? Most likely

Would there be less i.d. theft ? Not likely.

Would cheap labour cease ? I doubt it poor people breed like rabbits, especially when they are paid to sit around having sex all day .

[bringer]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

I guess what it boils down to is this..

If you built a brick wall 50 miles high and no mexicans ever came across the border anymore..

Would there still be people on foodstamps and welfare ? Most likely

Would there be less i.d. theft ? Not likely.

Would cheap labour cease ? I doubt it poor people breed like rabbits, especially when they are paid to sit around having sex all day .

solution? fix welfare

[eroswebmaster]

We have enough problems...and instead of trying to sort them out when they get here...let's do something to help them fix their own.

Go back 20 years, go back 30 years some of you weren't alive to see the difference but this country was a lot different back then and it is now a shit hole and becoming a bigger one..and sorry but the simple fact is there is a direct correlation to immigration both legal and illegal.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by bringer

solution? fix welfare

exactly.. our problem isn't cheap mexican labour its cheap chinese labour..

We need the mexicans or china will take us over

And the welfare system is a sham , so is the prison system..

I'm not saying prisoners have it easy , but they could have it not any harder and do us and them alot more good.

We have a pretty large portion of good hard workers in prison for stupid shit that they wouldn't have evn been doing if they didnt have a job anyways..

get those people working.

[BradM]

Also do you people know what welfare pays out a month? Not enough to live that's for sure. Not enough for a mom and a baby. I don't know how they do it.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

exactly.. our problem isn't cheap mexican labour its cheap chinese labour..

We need the mexicans or china will take us over

And the welfare system is a sham , so is the prison system..

I'm not saying prisoners have it easy , but they could have it not any harder and do us and them alot more good.

We have a pretty large portion of good hard workers in prison for stupid shit that they wouldn't have evn been doing if they didnt have a job anyways..

get those people working.

theres enough people outside of prison who should be working aswell. they need to setup bullshit jobs for these people so they'll look for an easier job solution. i think someone who's forced to pickup trash along the highway or dig a hole and fill it in to receive their assistance might consider working in an air conditioned mcdonalds or going to school full time to get a better job. i have no problem with helping people out, and if they want to goto school and contribute to society rather then drain from it im all for that. instead the current system lets them report every two weeks basicly saying "i tried" and lets them off the hook. you'd think with all these single mothers who claim they cant work because they need to take care of their children, some could baby sit for others while they work and get paid for helping out. im sick of the gov accepting excuses for votes.

[VeriSexy]

You guys forget that North America is built on immigration and the natives were almost wiped out........ Let them come...........

[bringer]

Originally Posted by VeriSexy

You guys forget that North America is built on immigration and the natives were almost wiped out........ Let them come...........

things are a little different now though. then if you didnt work 14hour days your family didnt eat where now you can watch tv all day and get paid with tax dollars.

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by bringer

things are a little different now though. then if you didnt work 14hour days your family didnt eat where now you can watch tv all day and get paid with tax dollars.

That's a welfare problem, not an immigration problem.