What are your thoughts on Universal Health Care?
Do you have Universal Health Care where you live? If so, what do you like/dislike about it?
Do you think it would be a good thing for the U.S. to do?
Do you think it would be a good thing for the U.S. to do?
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US here.
I think it would be very very damn bad.
I highly oppose it and I use a fuckload of medical each month. -
I live in NY (US) and my mom has Hudson Valley Health plus or something like that. I support her 100% financially, so she has no income and qualifies for free health, dental, and prescriptions. (She has osteo-arthritis) Fortunately, the coverage is as good as private insurance, so she can choose almost any doctor she wants, because they accept it like other private insurance, unlike medicaid/medicare.
However, I think a Universal system would lessen the quality of health care in the US. Doctors save lives, they SHOULD be paid a considerable amount for their work. It's the drug companies that make health care costs as outrageous as they are.
Unfortunately when it comes to health care, you *usually* get what you pay for. NY state is fantastic as far as providing and making health care available to everyone, especially kids.
I'm certain if there was a universal system, there would be less and less doctors and the care itself would rapidly decline.
I make too much money to qualify for Hudson Valley health plus (or whatever its called) but I would be more than willing to pay for it, because my mom receives excellent care and loads of costly prescriptions. Maybe instead of making it universal, they should make a "reduced rate" type of federal plan or something.Comment
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BTW if we has Universal healthcare whom would pay for it?
Nothing is really free after all.Comment
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I am not for it...for multiple reasons.Originally posted by Lenny2When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.htmlComment
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The same people who pay for it now. I never presumed it would be free.Originally posted by After Shock Media
Britain has cradle to grave universal health care and pays HALF of what we pay in the states on a per capita basis.sig too bigComment
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Going to a universal care system probably wouldn't take money out of doctor's pockets. They get raked over the coals by the insurance companies as it is.Originally posted by Furious_Female
With universal care the government could negotiate rates with the pharmaceutical companies the way Canada does....it would greatly reduce the cost of prescription medicine.
Doctors and Nurses could form a union and collectively bargain for their wages the way most government employees currently do.
The only people who would lose IMHO would be insurance companies and HMO's, since they would be taken out of the equation.
I am however no fan of these companies or the way they operate so that wouldn't bother me at all.sig too bigComment
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this is a myth you wont get good care with a universal system ,we are the most expensive for health care and not even in the top twenty in life expectancy:
1 Andorra 83.50
2 San Marino 81.53
3 Singapore 81.53
4 Japan 81.04
5 Switzerland 80.31
6 Sweden 80.30
7 Australia 80.26
8 Iceland 80.18
9 Canada 79.96
10 Italy 79.54
11 France 79.44
12 Monaco 79.42
13 Liechtenstein 79.40
14 Spain 79.37
15 Norway 79.25
16 Israel 79.17
17 Greece 78.94
18 Austria 78.87
19 Malta 78.68
20 Netherlands 78.68Comment
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it wouldnt happen in the US
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Originally posted by Lenny2
The patients would lose. Every citizen in America already has free healthcare.
The market has decided that private healthcare is a better option for some. We buy insurance to be able to afford "private healthcare". I am not taking my son to a government hospital. I chose to change my priorities so he can get the best health care available.
One of the most common falacies spouted in the last election was that 45 million people cant affored health insurance.
That is not actually true. A majority of those people can afford health insurance, they just choose to have nice things and cars instead.
Everyone in the country has access to health care wether they have insurance or not.
Getting the government involved in the healtcare business will kill it. The pill that cures cancer will not be invented by a 9-5 employee with no responsiblity to create revenue for his company.
Take away the private healthcare industry and the economy will die a slow and painfull death. Everyone will lose as standards decrease to the point where Americans will have to travel overseas to substandard hospitals to get treatments for diseases.Comment
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I agree with much of what you posted.Originally posted by FunForOneWhen you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.htmlComment
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Originally posted by tony404
Those are unrelated things. You can make that hypothesis without factoring in genetic and cultural differences.Comment
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There are many reasons why health insurance costs so much, but one of the main reasons is that those people that "choose" to not afford health insurance use the emergency room for situations where a doctors appointment would be ok.
They just know that they can get free medicine by going to the ER instead of having to pay for it at the drug store. The cost is passed on to me.
The main reason is an over litigious society, but thats a different story.Comment
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I could go on forever but basically i think its a bad idea.Comment
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If one of my family members was in surgery, I wouldn't mine looking out the window of the waiting room and see that the Dr drove a very expensive car.
I just think it would really suck if the Dr. closed up the surgery half way through it because of his mandatory 15 minute break.Comment
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bring it on baby - healthcare for care not for profitComment
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Ummm sorry genius but your health insurance doesn't cost more because poor people use the ER for medical attention. The insurance companies don't have to foot the bill for that, the government does. You pay for it with higher taxes.Originally posted by FunForOne
Also, there are indeed over 40 million people in this country without healthcare, either because their employer doesn't offer it or they can't afford it. You can live in your fairy tale Ronald Reagan world where people on welfare drive caddilac's or you can live in the real world where there are lots of people who can't afford healthcare.
Universal care would be MUCH cheaper because those people wouldn't have to go to the emergency room when they had a stroke, they'd be able to see a doctor and get blood pressure medication and never have a stoke.
We're paying for their healthcare already, it would be much cheaper to pay for it via a universal system than the way things currently are.
Hell, just taking the HMO profits out of the healthcare system would save us tens of billions per year.sig too bigComment
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Actually nobody is talking about privatizing the pharmaceutical industry. That would remain a private enterprise.Originally posted by FunForOne
The difference is that Americans would pay the same LOWER prices for drugs that Canadians and several other countries pay.
Also, government funding to those pharmaceutical companies is what made many of the medical breakthroughs of this century possible. They take our taxpayer dollars in the form of research grants and tax credits for research, and then charge the American people 3 times as much for a pill as they charge the Canadians.
That's fucking insane.
With a universal system we would have the same bargaining power, actually greater bargaining power, than all of the countries who currently have a single payer system.sig too bigComment
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Originally posted by Lenny2
Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. I retired from the Health Insurance Industry a couple of years ago. I owned an agency that sold and consulted companies on their group insurance. I know what I'm talking about on this one.
This is a good example of an ideologe calling someone with real world experience a dumbass for explaining something to them. I could tell you the magic potion to make gold and you would disagree because you are weak minded.
Here is your statment:
""""""""Ummm sorry genius but your health insurance doesn't cost more because poor people use the ER for medical attention. The insurance companies don't have to foot the bill for that, the government does. You pay for it with higher taxes.""""""""""""""""""""
You dont understand how the world works.
Here is a quick lesson, this one is free.
People go into the emergency room to get treated.
They never had any intention of paying the bills
The hospital/doctors lose money on that person.
The hosptial/doctors respond by raising the price of the care
The insurance companies have to pay more fo their clients to recieve care
The insruance companies have to raise the premium on all clients to pay.
Here are two real world examples:
1)
One guy looked in my face and told me that he didn't need insurance because he went to the emergency room with a back problem and they sent him a $5,000 bill, he called them and told them he couldn't pay and he ignored collections. I looked him in the face and told him, dont worry, I'm paying it for you.
2)
A young couple around 25-years old with two small kids. The wife explained to me that she couldn't afford the $120 a month for her portion of the company health insurance plan. She explained that her budget was already tight with two $350 / month car payments and a $800 / month house payment.Comment
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That's the most ridiculous fucking thing I've ever read.Originally posted by FunForOne
Do you actually believe any of this gobbledygook you post or do you just cut and paste from Ann Coulter's ebooks?
Nobody has a problem with doctor's making handsome salaries. In fact they could probably make more with a single payer system than they do under the current system.
In fact, most doctors are in favor of universal health care.
The insurance companies rake doctors over the coals every year with reductions in fees for services but then turn around and offer them bonuses to provide less care to their patients.
The problem with the health care industry is the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. One of which would be eliminated and other would be brought into check by a universal system.sig too bigComment
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Their is a problem with people with pre-existing conditions. I wish there was a better way for them.
However, some things have been put in place to allieviate some of the problems.
They are conservative values, but asking the policy holder to be more accountable really goes a long way.
The new HSA plans can cut the premium of most healthy family insurance plans in half. If administered correctly, it allows people to adjust their deductible as time goes by to assist in the inevitable rising costs of health insurance.
A very good side affect of higher deductables is less underwritting necessary.
Your local agent wont tell you about those because he makes less money, but you should ask them about it.Comment
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I'm not opposed to it but I can see where it will have a serious effect on the quality of healthcare we receive. I'd be happy for anyone making under $50K to receive free healthcare. The rest of us should pay.
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Originally posted by Lenny2
Yep, liberalism at its best. Big goverment!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry but you cant lecture me on the healthcare system.
Its funny to suggest that Doctors want a universal healthcare system. You would be laughed at saying that in public.Comment
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Your kidding right we supposedly have the best health care in the world and dont make the the top 20, I dont think the french or swiss or italians are much different from us except they smoke more,drink more and eat more high fat foods and they have universal care. lolOriginally posted by FunForOneComment
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Lenny, you are an idiot and just dont understand a thing about this matter. I'm sorry I rained on your political parade, but you shouldn't start threads to change peoples minds when you dont understand the issue.Comment
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Universal health care is awesome. I wouldn't exect it to ever be put in place in the US though. Too many brainwashed people who believe the horror stories they are told about it. It doesn't really matter anyway. The US can keep their private health care system. Those of us who have universal health care know how good we have it. Americans can continue to believe the bullshit that is fed to them. Their loss.Comment
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Originally posted by tony404
Who knows? I havn't seen that scientific study.
I just know it is a leap to say that life expectancy is directly related to type of healthcare available.
You have to factor in a whole bunch of things before you make that conclusion.
by the way, we do have the best healthcare available. Rich people from all over the world fly into to Houston Texas to get cancer treatment. (Just and example)Comment
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Originally posted by Manga1
Thats good. I hope you get great healthcare.
I can make an appointment tomorrow and see some of the best brain surgeons in the world for $1,500.Comment
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If you need to see a brain surgeon you have bigger problems than the $1,500.Originally posted by FunForOneComment
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We have it in Australia and the system - although it has it's flaws - enjoys wide popular support. Basically, any government or wannabe government who wants to fuck with it can kiss their electoral chances goodbye.Originally posted by Lenny2
Without universal healthcare and quality public education true equal opportunity cannot exist.
As for whether it's a good thing for the US... well your system sucks as it is, so any change would probably be for the better.
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Let me put it this way. I've never spent a dime on health care. Ever. Neither has anybody I know. In fact, today my wife had an accident and we needed to find out if she broke her ankle. She had a doctor look at her, got x-rays taken, and had them analyzed all in less than an hour. She got top quality care and it didn't cost anything.Originally posted by FunForOne
Another example, two weeks ago a friend's kid was climbing and fell and bounced his head of the corner of a table. They took him to the Sick Kids Hosptial, which happens to be the best in the world. He waited half an hour to be looked at, during which time a clown kept him calm. They patched him up and sent him on his way. No cost. No health insurance needed. Top quality care. That's what universal health care is all about.Comment
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Originally posted by Manga1
You are correct, which is why I sleep better at knowing that my child in the next room has access to the best brain surgeons in the world. Same goes for heart surgeons all the way down to foot doctors.Comment
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Against it, I took the chance that I would not get sick while starting my business because I could use the insurance monthly premiums to invest in my business. I was lucky. As soon as I could afford insurance, I brought it. I believe I was paying 310.00 a month and I didn?t use it but there was a comfort zone.
After getting married, my husband?s company pays for Blue Cross Personal Choice (same coverage I had). I still hate going to doctors but a few weeks ago I needed to go to a doctor and, I am glad for the insurance that I have that doesn?t question doctor?s moves for treatment.
In the US medical help is available for free but one is treated like a 2nd class citizen in the billing department but you get healthcare. What really appalls (sp) me is the person who has a car and pays car insurance and neglects health insurance.
JMO
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I'm still single and I started paying for my Health care 6 months ago. I still beleive on Universal Health care.Comment
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Originally posted by FunForOne
you are exactly right.. i used to work in the ERLooking to speak w/ high volume nutra CPA affiliates or networks... msg me
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That's not how the world works. Thats how your shitty healthcare system works.Originally posted by FunForOne
Here's a clue: USA does not equal the world.
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I have not heard of it here yet...Too many private medical insurance...
i think it is good if we're gonna have something like that here...
alot of people are suffering from health care services. not giving enough priority to those who are in true need
~Accepting design works~ Comment
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You hit the proverbial nail on the head.Originally posted by FunForOneWhen you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.htmlComment
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I don't think you understand the concept.Originally posted by BusterPorn
With a universal system the government levies a dedicated tax on something like payroll, and that money goes to pay for the healthcare system.
We all pay the tax so we all pay for healthcare, but there would be no out of pocket expense when you had to see the doctor or get medicine etc.sig too bigComment
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Originally posted by FunForOne
Both of the problems you just illustrated would be fixed with a single payer universal system.
Everyone would have to pay the tax so nobody would get a free ride....those of us already paying for our own health care would get a discount.
Here's what most people don't understand. Insurance companies and HMO's WANT the price of health care to continue to skyrocket. If you work for say a 5% margin, would you want your clients to have to pay $1000 a year or $2000 a year?
The more the prices go up the more the HMO's make, it's as simple as that.sig too bigComment
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