Good Morning GFY. Question for White Christians in the US and an outstanding invoice.

[Cory W]

When I attended the University of Kansas, a still infamous preacher toured from campus to campus in the Midwest preaching hate against gays, jews and women that chose to dress scantily (as it implied impure behavior). During one of his visits to our campus, the usual riot ensued. During the screaming debacle, I approached him and poured a cup of cold Latte on his head. He screamed that I was a ?masturbator.?

Two months prior, I was fired as a writer for the Daily Kansan for writing what they termed ?nonsensical and at times, insulting articles aimed at labeling co-columnist as idiots.? I could argue the ?nonsensical? portion, but they were dead on in the latter.

Interesting.

Immediately following the coffee incident, the paper was on it. Coverage of the preacher was impenetrable. They asked me why I did it. I was quoted as saying, ?he preached in cultish undertones.? Most of the staff writers wanted my head on a stick. I was front page news and circulating the city of Lawrence in groves before I had even sipped the first drop of my Latte.

The jews were delighted, as were the gays. KU possesses the basic dynamics of Berkeley in the way that it is very liberally and politically driven. Most every Political Science class on campus opened their daily courses by holding up the Daily Kansan front page and quoting me. Too my dismay, I was ravaged by my fellow liberal students (with the exception of the jews, gays and a few campus sluts, bless their hearts).

The argument was that you should have your right to Freedom of Speech (which is in my opinion a huge excuse for idiocy) preserved.

The KKK was always allowed to gather and discuss ridding ?America? of the N-iggers. You can assemble people in Central Park and discuss the Fa-gs. You could probably get a city permit for it if you donated enough money to a suit.

This morning, Tony Blair announced the way to beat terrorism is to ?attack the ideology.? And most ?Americans? are backing this attitude and are pushing for movements to disallow Muslims from assembling and discussing the infidels.

My opinion is that Freedom of Speech never should have included people gathering with obvious intentions of gathering support for mindsets that have a proven track record of murder. So I agree with Blair. I agree with the callers.

I just want to know where they were in the 60?s. I want to know why they didn?t speak up during assemblies discussing hate against the gay community? Is Freedom of Speech convenienent?

I am going to write a letter to the University of Kansas this morning and include in the envelope an invoice for $2.50. This should cover the cost of the Latte. After I receive payment in full, I will then assist in the cause to disengage muslims from preaching hate. All's fair that ends fair.

[Gabriel]

WOW 18 views and 0 replies.

Way to bore your audience Cory. Atta boy.

[Gabriel]

Ok now its up to 25 and still no comments. Cory you are losing it. Its sad to see someone you know start their downward spiral.

[Toolz]

He just posted it somewhere where the average person won't read past line two that's his main problem. I on the other hand have been eating lunch and was looking for a long post to read.

Freedom of speech is always a convience based thing, as long as those in power allow minority groups to feel like they're being represented all is fine and dandy. However how are they going to determine who are infidels? Dearbon, MI has the highest population of Muslims in the US, most of them love this country I'm sure there's a few that don't but I can probably find more WASP's around here that would be more likely to blow up a federal building than I could a Muslim.

[TaDoW]

fascinating.

You realize that by posting something mildly intellectual like that you probably won't get a response out of GFYers, right? ... and the likelihood of getting an educated response is further distilled by the length of the question (and the fact that you didn't state the question directly at the beginning or end, but somewhere in between the two.

I hate to say it, but I'm of the opinion that freedom of speech, no matter how much it may rub you the wrong way, must ALWAYS have its place in this country. Without it, you would not be wearing the clothes you wear, driving the car you drive, living in the house (or apt) you live in ... because that's probably all paid for by porn, which is made possible because a handful of brave souls have stood in that square and spoken their mind, and had lattes dumped on their heads.

Freedom of expression is also an evolutionary thing. In the 60's, the gay community was just on the verge of being accepted, and it was very much like those who stood and spoke out in defense of muslims, or against the war, or against the new big-brother laws that were forced into the books immediately following september 11th. If you defended them, you were as good as they were, and essentially were putting yourself in harms way.

The first person who stands up always get shot down, but they allow more people to follow, until the opposition is eventually overwhelmed.

[Phoenix]

i always thought of myself as a free thinker and very open minded and liberal...but im getting to the point where it is just nuisance and too expensive to have such lofty hopes for the world...Muslims and other radical religions should be confined to their own parts of the world...we have enough issues over here as is

[BradM]

You masturbator.

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Toolz

He just posted it somewhere where the average person won't read past line two that's his main problem. I on the other hand have been eating lunch and was looking for a long post to read.

Freedom of speech is always a convience based thing, as long as those in power allow minority groups to feel like they're being represented all is fine and dandy. However how are they going to determine who are infidels? Dearbon, MI has the highest population of Muslims in the US, most of them love this country I'm sure there's a few that don't but I can probably find more WASP's around here that would be more likely to blow up a federal building than I could a Muslim.

Well said.

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by TaDoW

fascinating.

You realize that by posting something mildly intellectual like that you probably won't get a response out of GFYers, right? ... and the likelihood of getting an educated response is further distilled by the length of the question (and the fact that you didn't state the question directly at the beginning or end, but somewhere in between the two.

I hate to say it, but I'm of the opinion that freedom of speech, no matter how much it may rub you the wrong way, must ALWAYS have its place in this country. Without it, you would not be wearing the clothes you wear, driving the car you drive, living in the house (or apt) you live in ... because that's probably all paid for by porn, which is made possible because a handful of brave souls have stood in that square and spoken their mind, and had lattes dumped on their heads.

Freedom of expression is also an evolutionary thing. In the 60's, the gay community was just on the verge of being accepted, and it was very much like those who stood and spoke out in defense of muslims, or against the war, or against the new big-brother laws that were forced into the books immediately following september 11th. If you defended them, you were as good as they were, and essentially were putting yourself in harms way.

The first person who stands up always get shot down, but they allow more people to follow, until the opposition is eventually overwhelmed.

I do not agree with your take on Freedom of Speech, but I respect it and view you as a logical and unbiast person because it is consistent.

The inconsistency in all of this is much more intimidating than the fear people have of Freedom of Speech being jeopardized. They are one in the same, yet people have missed that.

[hotstuff]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

snip some good stuff

i agree with some of what you said, but please realize that you are on a very very slippery slope. today, we may all agree that organized religion and racist organizations have a track record for murder and move to ban them (good luck getting the christians banned, by the way). tomorrow, the majority of the populace may believe that pronography has a track record of kitten murder causation and there goes your shiny house and pimp ride.

in short, there is a good reason why we have amendments to the constitution which guarantee freedom of assembly and freedom of speech - to protect the minority against the tyranny of the majority.

what the UK *should* do, and what most of europe already does, is to pass laws making hate speech illegal. if you get up on a soapbox and urge people to assault pakistanis, you go to jail. if you urge them to demolish the west by killing civilians, you go to jail. there is no possible circumstance, under kantian ethics, where preaching hate is morally correct. this has served those countries in europe with neonazi problems really well.

[Gabriel]

You're welcome.

[RuthB]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Ok now its up to 25 and still no comments. Cory you are losing it. Its sad to see someone you know start their downward spiral.

it's quite a story to get through.. but you're definitely an interesting guy Cory

sending an invoice for $2.50.. with the cost of inflation, that Latte is probly $9 or so now, you should change that invoice!!

The problem with making changes to "Freedom of Speech", is that once you've made ONE change any others are so much easier to add on, and then the whole 1st amendment wouldn't really be valid anymore (can you IMAGINE what would come into play once that first 'strike' is made?? especially given what it seems the US Govt is focusing on right now), which I think would upset a LOT of Americans, since it seems to be something they really like to refer to.. 'it's my freedom of speech'.. 'I have a right to Freedom of Speech'.. etc..

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

i always thought of myself as a free thinker and very open minded and liberal...but im getting to the point where it is just nuisance and too expensive to have such lofty hopes for the world...Muslims and other radical religions should be confined to their own parts of the world...we have enough issues over here as is

All muslims?

Why? Who?

I am dating a filipino girl. Filipinos terrorize resort communitites in the Philipines; should I send her to her homeland?

What about Wiredguy? Last thing I need is Charles on a different time zone than me. I prefer his cybersex in the AM, it gets me going like an Ironman on Gatorade.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I think "freedom Of Speech" is becomming convenient.

[KRosh]

Some people will not reply because they are here to waste time.

Others, such as myself, will not respond because your question is in search of a racial debate!

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

OH also Cory...

That dude may have been excercising his freedom of speech, you showed your freedom to expression.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

All muslims?

Why? Who?

I am dating a filipino girl. Filipinos terrorize resort communitites in the Philipines; should I send her to her homeland?

What about Wiredguy? Last thing I need is Charles on a different time zone than me. I prefer his cybersex in the AM, it gets me going like an Ironman on Gatorade.

hey dude im all for fairness in the world..but when it comes time for me to worry about my sister travelling around the wold safely or even in her own country./..the game is over...time to fuck off..and get lost.
i used to date a muslim girl...she has not ben allowed out ofherhouse excpet to go to school for years and she is 22....lots of freedom for her living here in canada....she is clinically depressed....her religion is really helping her out while livingin canada.


Dont get me wrong...id like to be nice to everyone and let everyone come and enjoy the benefits of our wondrful country....however the world has changed...whether by us or by them..it has moved on from where we were heading.....if you think CDNS are so open and understanding..watch what happens if the terror ever comes home here, the only muslims that willbe safe are the ones staying inside their homes...god help any that live outside the major city centers....or if it happens in sunny California...100's dead because some people want to have lofty morals and let radical religious groups have a voice within our country

[KRosh]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

hey dude im all for fairness in the world..but when it comes time for me to worry about my sister travelling around the wold safely or even in her own country./..the game is over...time to fuck off..and get lost.
i used to date a muslim girl...she has not ben allowed out ofherhouse excpet to go to school for years and she is 22....lots of freedom for her living here in canada....she is clinically depressed....her religion is really helping her out while livingin canada.


Dont get me wrong...id like to be nice to everyone and let everyone come and enjoy the benefits of our wondrful country....however the world has changed...whether by us or by them..it has moved on from where we were heading.....if you think CDNS are so open and understanding..watch what happens if the terror ever comes home here, the only muslims that willbe safe are the ones staying inside their homes...god help any that live outside the major city centers....or if it happens in sunny California...100's dead because some people want to have lofty morals and let radical religious groups have a voice within our country

I would like for you to study about the Christian Crusades before you make another comment and generalize "muslims"!

[KRosh]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

hey dude im all for fairness in the world..

Let's also talk about timothy mcveigh .

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by KRosh

I would like for you to study about the Christian Crusades before you make another comment and generalize "muslims"!

why not make your point here instead..in case i miss the subtle point you want me to find in it....the crusades you want me to look up are long over.

i dont care about history or past offences. Im talking about making my country safe from attack in todays climate...i can openly admit that 95% of muslims are peace loving and friendly people, they might treat their women differently but they probably mean well. that being said...the 5% have ruined it for the rest....i dont need a bomb going off in toronto downtown one day for me to make that call...i like to be proactive not reactive

[TaDoW]

Originally Posted by KRosh

I would like for you to study about the Christian Crusades before you make another comment and generalize "muslims"!

Always my favorite story!

I don't think any religious group has done as much damage as the christians did during the crusades. A real "Model" religion.. uh huh.

[Linkster]

I think the best descriptions throughout history of this conflicting idea of "freedom of speech" and its' limitations from Jefferson "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it"
and Voltaire's "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" are key to my beliefs in the freedoms ratified in 1791.

Its easy to stand behind someones right to speek freely if you agree with their stand - it is quite hard to defend that same right when you oppose that persons position - but if you truly believe in the concept - you would stand with that person against any attack on their right to speech.

I was around the moratoriums/strikes/demonstrations of the 60s and very active in the movement. There were constant conflicts with people that opposed our ideology, and these often led to violent acts. Some (ex. Kent State) led to deaths of the people involved in the expression of their free speech.

I also believe that trying to force your opinion of allowance of free speech on another form of government is totally wrong and against everything we stand for, but that is a different discussion

[Cory W]

Phoenix,

Terror is not new. My passport has more stamps on it than XXXJay has piercings, I can assure you, traveling is safe when you consider all in the world that is dangerous.

Was bombing black churches not dangerous because the killings involved predominately black attendees? Travel was safe then.

The inconsitencies are dangerous.

BTW, I am not arguing out of a friendly manner, anyone who can debate this subject has my respect.

[Toolz]

Originally Posted by KRosh

Let's also talk about timothy mcveigh .

Exactly, luckily the US terrorists have been overshadowed by the Muslims of late but there's plenty of white wack jobs running around here.

[TaDoW]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

why not make your point here instead..in case i miss the subtle point you want me to find in it....the crusades you want me to look up are long over.

i dont care about history or past offences. Im talking about making my country safe from attack in todays climate...i can openly admit that 95% of muslims are peace loving and friendly people, they might treat their women differently but they probably mean well. that being said...the 5% have ruined it for the rest....i dont need a bomb going off in toronto downtown one day for me to make that call...i like to be proactive not reactive

what the fuck do you think Bush is doing RIGHT NOW over in iraq? It's just the newest form of the crusades except he traded rape in the name of god for carpet bombing in the name of god.

[J$tyle$]

Originally Posted by KRosh

Some people will not reply because they are here to waste time.

Others, such as myself, will not respond because your question is in search of a racial debate!

Checking out the bait

Originally Posted by KRosh

I would like for you to study about the Christian Crusades before you make another comment and generalize "muslims"!

Hooked

Originally Posted by KRosh

Let's also talk about timothy mcveigh .

Won't let go

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by KRosh

Let's also talk about timothy mcveigh .

no one said there wont be nutbars....letting militia grops form arm and entrench themselves is something that should be dealth with promptly as well...the writing was on the wall...it is often on the wall and not read

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TaDoW

what the fuck do you think Bush is doing RIGHT NOW over in iraq? It's just the newest form of the crusades except he traded rape in the name of god for carpet bombing in the name of god.

Bush claims to be religious as hell..but he oly preys to the god of cash....he is over there building a pipeline....look it up

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Toolz

Exactly, luckily the US terrorists have been overshadowed by the Muslims of late but there's plenty of white wack jobs running around here.

They are just demonstrating, gathering under the Freedom of Speech idealogy.

It would be tragic if we told them they couldn't.

Next big bomb comes from a white male in his early 20s. He will be from the midwest. Any takers?

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

I am not white, nor Christian (white-Christians ... holy fuckin KKKlowns), so I hope I can add my buck and a bit:

If you have ever researched the history of the Islam & Muslim faith, as well that of Christianity, you'd understand exactly where TB was coming from (I did not say agree).

I am all for freedom of speech, but if something is a known problem (based on historical FACTS) you would almost agree with Tony B. At no point have they been level headed! Sure, some Islam followers are cool, but there is more than one 'type' (I believe it was split into 72 parts, and even they argue, not debate, amongst one another).

No, I do not believe in deleting the ideology ... HOWEVER, they have not shown they are capable of evolving their teachings, and have made clear their intentions.
In a nutshell, the Koran does state that none believers/none practitioners of the Muslim faith must be removed ... killed ... eliminated.

Now, I ask you this: how else does a person deal with a beyond extreme faction when it is threatening them?
In my eyes, with extreme measures.

I truly wish they would deal with their own problems, however that will never happen. I hear them condemning their own faith followers, but any society or ideology that teaches the young to strap a bomb to their chest (funny how the elders never do such) is FUCKING BROKEN & BEYOND EVIL!

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Paco, of Large Cash.

I am not white, nor Christian (white-Christians ... holy fuckin KKKlowns), so I hope I can add my buck and a bit:

If you have ever researched the history of the Islam & Muslim faith, as well that of Christianity, you'd understand exactly where TB was coming from (I did not say agree).

I am all for freedom of speech, but if something is a known problem (based on historical FACTS) you would almost agree with Tony B. At no point have they been level headed! Sure, some Islam followers are cool, but there is more than one 'type' (I believe it was split into 72 parts, and even they argue, not debate, amongst one another).

No, I do not believe in deleting the ideology ... HOWEVER, they have not shown they are capable of evolving their teachings, and have made clear their intentions.
In a nutshell, the Koran does state that none believers/none practitioners of the Muslim faith must be removed ... killed ... eliminated.

Now, I ask you this: how else does a person deal with a beyond extreme faction when it is threatening them?
In my eyes, with extreme measures.

I truly wish they would deal with their own problems, however that will never happen. I hear them condemning their own faith followers, but any society or ideology that teaches the young to strap a bomb to their chest (funny how the elders never do such) is FUCKING BROKEN & BEYOND EVIL!

Are the whackjobs living north of Toolz not dangerous?

I do not disagree with you, just curious how the consistency is applied (or not applied).

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Phoenix,

Terror is not new. My passport has more stamps on it than XXXJay has piercings, I can assure you, traveling is safe when you consider all in the world that is dangerous.

Was bombing black churches not dangerous because the killings involved predominately black attendees? Travel was safe then.

The inconsitencies are dangerous.

BTW, I am not arguing out of a friendly manner, anyone who can debate this subject has my respect.

Terrororism itself is not new and will never go away... but you should be allowed to try and make your own home country as safe as possible..
that is my point

worrying about being too nice is only going to get us in more hot water...it is time for decisive action..the politicians need tobe put to rest for awhile

[seeric]

good read bro. too bad smart posts with substance normally crash and burn into page 10. more posts like this and less "would you hit it posts" would be fine with me.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

no one said there wont be nutbars....letting militia grops form arm and entrench themselves is something that should be dealth with promptly as well...the writing was on the wall...it is often on the wall and not read

Again this is something that has always been allowed by our Constitution - and again although I don't agree with some methods used, I will defend anyone's right to form militia, assemble, speek freely, arm or any other right guaranteed as an American.

I dont agree that any limitation on speech should be made (the comment about hate speech) as again it is anyones right to speek freely. The only limitation I could ever agree with which has already been implemented by the supreme court in the "yelling fire in a crowded movie house" decision. If it leads as an immediate effect of harm to someone - then yes - it is wrong. Anything else is protected in my opinion.

[TaDoW]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Next big bomb comes from a white male in his early 20s. He will be from the midwest. Any takers?

I'd probably run with those odds ...

That takes it several steps beyond freedom of speech tho. That is an assault on whatever country he uses the device against. And I think it will most likely be a result of him not making his voice heard before he carries out the attack. The other thing that I think is being left out here is that bombers are selfish ignorant cowards. If they were really so righteous, they would be out making waves in public forums.

Mahatma Ghandi will be remembered vastly longer than those who flew the planes into the WTC ... I can't even remember their names now.

[RuthB]

Unfortunately human beings have faults and egos. As such, there will NEVER be a solution that will appease ALL (you can't please all of the people all of the time). Humans hate, they fear, they have anger, most importantly they have differences, and some of them will actively try to make other people believe the same way they do.

TRYING to learn from our history and NOT repeat the same mistakes is the best thing we can do for ourselves and future generations. Sometimes we'll screw up though, sometimes politicians will screw up too (fine, maybe they screw up more than the rest of us ).

Why? Cos it's part of the human condition. The diversity of humans, while seemingly a weakness, when harnessed correctly could actually be a strength (and no, I don't have the answers). But for that to happen, more people must be WILLING to listen, digest new information, TRY to accept it and be more flexible and tolerant of others.

There will always be hate, and terrible events that we can't control. But how we handle the hate directed at us (and our families, friends, etc) is something we CAN control, we have to make the effort NOT to turn to the same answers as those things/people hating us.

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Are the whackjobs living north of Toolz not dangerous?

I do not disagree with you, just curious how the consistency is applied (or not applied).

Hmm, I heard how some lack the skill to comprehend.

DO U KNOW WORLD HIS_TO_RY ?

If yah, you'd see exactly what I was saying.

I did expect a few burrito style lash-outs, but had hoped it would have been after a few moments of contemplation (and maybe some research).

Oh well, yah most likely skimmed because of the amount of words.

Oh, let me guess ... you're red.

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Paco, of Large Cash.

Hmm, I heard how some lack the skill to comprehend.

DO U KNOW WORLD HIS_TO_RY ?

If yah, you'd see exactly what I was saying.

I did expect a few burrito style lash-outs, but had hoped it would have been after a few moments of contemplation (and maybe some research).

Oh well, yah most likely skimmed because of the amount of words.

I don't understand what you just said. Did I lash out with burrito comments? Or didyou not mean to quote me?

[Cory W]

For the record, I enjoy burritos. I would also engage in any formal assemblies that protected burritology.

[TaDoW]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

I don't understand what you just said. Did I lash out with burrito comments? Or didyou not mean to quote me?

lol

I'm not sure I understood it either...

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

For the record, I enjoy burritos. I would also engage in any formal assemblies that protected burritology.

Burritology LOL, again you're welcome.

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

burrito

Etymology: American Spanish, from Spanish, little donkey, diminutive of burro

[TaDoW]

burrito

The act of stealing the covers from one's spouse by rolling up in them.

My wife burritoed the covers last night and I froze my ass off!

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

okay ... okay, I'll chill.

I am more or less a hippy at heart and in mind, however a person (similar to I) has to drop the wishful thinking and realize.

I apologize to all, for my verbal vomit.

[TaDoW]

I'm just impressed at how quickly the word "burrito" killed a perfectly good thread..

does that make the burrito mightier than the pen?

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Paco, of Large Cash.

okay ... okay, I'll chill.

I am more or less a hippy at heart and in mind, however a person (similar to I) has to drop the wishful thinking and realize.

I apologize to all, for my verbal vomit.

I am with you Paco...i dont like being in a speeding bus with no real driver..something has to be done to turn the tide

[Paco, of Large Cash.]

Originally Posted by TaDoW

burrito
The act of stealing the covers from one's spouse by rolling up in them.
My wife burritoed the covers last night and I froze my ass off!

Learn something new each day ... thanks y0

[Peaches]

Fokkers! Now I want a burrito

[Linkster]

having thought about this a little more along the inconsistency lines and doing a little research I find that we often speak of the freedoms "universally" for the US, but there still exist criminal penalties as well as insult laws in seventeen states in the US. The amusing part is that they are rarely used unless for an authoritarian gain. The other part of this is that the United States is a signatory to at least six International treaties that outlaw any repression of speech no matter how inflammatory or defamatory.

Inconsistencies - you bet

An old article reminded me of the absolute horror our parents had of the people that performed the music we grew up with (to the extent that records we listened to were burned in huge bonfires in this country) - and now that same Hendrix and the Who music is used to sell Cadillacs and as theme music for mainstream TV shows

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by TaDoW

I'm just impressed at how quickly the word "burrito" killed a perfectly good thread..

does that make the burrito mightier than the pen?

A good lunchtime read:

http://www.sexuality.org/l/sex/burrito.html