IBill Stats Totally FUCKED!!!

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  • TheFLY
    So Fucking Banned
    • Jan 2001
    • 11856
    #1

    IBill Stats Totally FUCKED!!!

    I check my stats in MSIE -- I get the error "ccard/cmisales.exe: Could not start Windows CGI executable."

    When are these people going to get their act together??? This is really starting to scare the shit out of me.

    I check stats in Opera and I when I click the submit button -- I get a prompt to download "cmisales.exe" but there's no file...

    Hello IBill! Anyone home? In the years I've been using them -- I have yet to ever receive any announcement from them... not even a single apology after all of their fuckups...

    I should have talked to them in Vegas...
    Tags: None
    • [Labret]
      Registered User
      • May 2001
      • 10945
      #2
      You fucking dillhole it says right as soon as you log in:


      iBill News
      Last Updated: Monday 28 January 2002 at 3:21 PM U.S. Eastern Time

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Total Revenue Report
      Please use the Detailed Revenue Report instead of the Total Revenue Report. We will update CMI when the Total Revenue Report is fully operational. The Detailed Revenue Report is located under Accounting in the CMI area.

        Comment

        • boneprone
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jan 2001
          • 34415
          #3
          I fucked her.

          Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
          Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
          http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
          Learn about it kids.

            Comment

            • boneprone
              Hall Of Fame
              • Jan 2001
              • 34415
              #4
              whoops wrong thread

              Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
              Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
              http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
              Learn about it kids.

                Comment

                • TheFLY
                  So Fucking Banned
                  • Jan 2001
                  • 11856
                  #5
                  Well I don't see that message at all Labret when I log in... this is all I see,

                  "NOON UPDATE 12/11/01
                  The rebill cycle has already been completed for today, December 11, 2001.
                  Rebill information for December 10th and 9th will be viewable via CMI by the
                  end of the day.
                  While new signups for RevShare are viewable via CMI, RevShare rebill
                  information is currently unavailable in the CMI. We will have further
                  information regarding RevShare rebills in our 5:00 p.m. update.
                  Another update regarding this situation will be posted by 5:00 pm EST on
                  Tuesday December 11, 2001.
                  Sincerely,
                  Premium Accounts Department
                  Internet Billing Company, Ltd."



                  .
                  .
                  .

                  I get different login info with every IBill account that I have -- maybe you are special Labret to get helpful information from IBill... But I have zero notice from them. Obviously they don't give a shit.

                    Comment

                    • TheFLY
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Jan 2001
                      • 11856
                      #6
                      Besides I'm just a reseller so there is no option for a "detailed revenue report"

                        Comment

                        • [Labret]
                          Registered User
                          • May 2001
                          • 10945
                          #7
                          Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

                            Comment

                            • Sleepy
                              Confirmed User
                              • Nov 2001
                              • 679
                              #8
                              Labret, you gotta admit that after two months it is becoming a little more than just annoying.

                                Comment

                                • boneprone
                                  Hall Of Fame
                                  • Jan 2001
                                  • 34415
                                  #9
                                  notice the comment under labrets name.

                                  Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                  Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                  http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                  Learn about it kids.

                                    Comment

                                    • Sleepy
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Nov 2001
                                      • 679
                                      #10
                                      lol :D

                                        Comment

                                        • Dirty F
                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                          • Jul 2001
                                          • 59204
                                          #11
                                          Labret is still the only one out of 1000's of people who never had any problems with Ibill.

                                            Comment

                                            • boneprone
                                              Hall Of Fame
                                              • Jan 2001
                                              • 34415
                                              #12
                                              Thats cause IBill fears him.

                                              Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
                                              Bow to the Power - Still BP4L
                                              http://gfyawards.com/hall-of-fame
                                              Learn about it kids.

                                                Comment

                                                • erotictrance
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                  • 328
                                                  #13
                                                  The problems with Ibill just keep coming every day ...

                                                  They never respond to this stuff either ...
                                                  erotictrance

                                                    Comment

                                                    • [Labret]
                                                      Registered User
                                                      • May 2001
                                                      • 10945
                                                      #14
                                                      Wrong, I just know what to classify as a "problem".

                                                      The ONLY problem I have ever had is the same one you get.

                                                      Reporting.

                                                      Reporting does not mean jack shit to me if it is down for a day or two. If it is down for a month, then start bitching.

                                                      Am I supposed to bad mouth them and abandon them when they have been nothing but great to me for 4 years?

                                                      My transactions go thru and I get paid in a timely manner. Customer service is pretty damn good to me as well. I have no problems with them.

                                                      I use ccBill as secondary, do you ever hear me bad mouthing them? No.

                                                      When I do not get paid on time, or when something major affects me, then you will see me bitching.

                                                      But unlike some, not being able to check for my 2nd rebill of the week because iBill is working on something, I do not find devastating.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • [Labret]
                                                          Registered User
                                                          • May 2001
                                                          • 10945
                                                          #15
                                                          OxCash runs one of the worst programs I have ever seen.

                                                          If they rebilled more than 10% of trials, I would be highly suprised.

                                                          Great concept, great content, fucking pathetic webmasters.
                                                          Last edited by [Labret]; 01-29-2002, 06:00 PM.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Sleepy
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Nov 2001
                                                              • 679
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by erotictrance
                                                              The problems with Ibill just keep coming every day ...
                                                              They never respond to this stuff either ...
                                                              Now you gone and done it...

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Bake
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                  • 5914
                                                                  #17
                                                                  hmmm Ive been usesing one sponsor that uses them and everday for a month Ive sent them like 600 clicks got a sale or 2 today Ive had 10 clicks ? Traffic is the same ,Time to rotate sponsor
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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • TheFLY
                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                                      • 11856
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Yeah Hello Fucking IBill!

                                                                      You can afford a trip to Vegas to hang out with us but you're
                                                                      too cheap to send one fucking email to webmasters to let us
                                                                      know that your system is down...

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Ludedude
                                                                          Suck it!
                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                          • 4432
                                                                          #19
                                                                          You guys don't get it do you? Labret does, since he's interfacing with them as a sponsor. iBill could give a rats ass about the affiliates stats shit since it affects their revenue NOT ONE IOTA! It doesn't affect the sponsors revenue either, so they don't bitch too much...it's only the affiliates that get fucked. iBill considers this a "minor" problem.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Phil21
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                              • 993
                                                                              #20
                                                                              I can semi live with stats going down "often" (i.e. a few hours a month), but just a couple days ago ibill had a *complete* outage where surfers couldn't even sign up.

                                                                              And, fucking affiliates WILL eventually effect both ibill's and the sponsor's bottom lines. Webmasters are what make programs, at least make them big. Piss off too many affiliates and well, you don't get the traffic you used to.

                                                                              -Phil
                                                                              Quality affordable hosting.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • [Labret]
                                                                                  Registered User
                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                  • 10945
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by Phil21


                                                                                  And, fucking affiliates WILL eventually effect both ibill's and the sponsor's bottom lines. Webmasters are what make programs, at least make them big. Piss off too many affiliates and well, you don't get the traffic you used to.

                                                                                  -Phil
                                                                                  Never make the mistake of thinking you matter. Sure, treating your webmasters isnt the worse thing you can do, but there are always more newbs waiting to sign up right behind you.

                                                                                  I am always amazed what kind of treatment some webmasters will put up with. Case in point. iFriends. One of the biggest crash and burns (and not too mentions shitties operations) I have seen in awhile. You know how many people still support them to this day? You know how many more want to still sign up? I saw a post COMPLAINING that they could not sign up for Click Cash. I thought it was a joke for a minute. Have you lived in a fucking cave? Who in their right minds would still support them?

                                                                                  Newbs.

                                                                                  Newbs are like gold. Lensman their puppet master, his absolute newb domination almost complete.

                                                                                  I dare anyone to name a single person who has as much control over armies of newb webmasters than Lensman.

                                                                                  Dont drink and post.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • TheFLY
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                                                      • 11856
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Ludedude
                                                                                      iBill could give a rats ass about the affiliates stats shit since it affects their revenue NOT ONE IOTA! It doesn't affect the sponsors revenue either, so they don't bitch too much...it's only the affiliates that get fucked. iBill considers this a "minor" problem.
                                                                                      That's pretty funny.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Webmaster101
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Nov 2001
                                                                                          • 113
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          um, ibill is shit. But its the driest pile we can choose from.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • funkmaster
                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                              • Sep 2001
                                                                                              • 7938
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              ... hmmmm, who is ibill ??

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Dualcpu
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Nov 2001
                                                                                                  • 488
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Important Notice

                                                                                                  iBill CMI and transaction services will be unavailable between 5:00 am and 5:30 am Wendesday morning. An emergency change is being implemented so three improvements can be deployed:

                                                                                                  1. Down the production databases to create new partitions for importing the remaining historical data in the CMI related databases. This change will also give better performance to ad hoc queries and reporting from the CMI system.

                                                                                                  2. Update system failover drivers for the SQL cluster servers. These drivers have been tested for the past few weeks and will improve our failover capability on the clustered servers.

                                                                                                  3. Upgrade the firmware on our firewalls. This upgrade has been recommended, tested and reviewed with our vendor in their lab and will improve our firewall failover capabilities.

                                                                                                  Thank you for your patience and consideration as we make these improvements.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Sleepy
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Nov 2001
                                                                                                      • 679
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      LOL ! Remember the first notice said everything would be fixed Tuesday...

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • funkmaster
                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                          • Sep 2001
                                                                                                          • 7938
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          ... wasn´t that back in oct 2001 ??

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Sleepy
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Nov 2001
                                                                                                              • 679
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              November 27th actually.
                                                                                                              We lost all our rebills from the 27th to the end of the month on 5 different accounts so the date is fresh in my head.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • funkmaster
                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                  • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                  • 7938
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  ... I can hear you.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • freeones
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                      • 3406
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by TheFLY
                                                                                                                      I check my stats in MSIE -- I get the error "ccard/cmisales.exe:

                                                                                                                      ......

                                                                                                                      I should have talked to them in Vegas...
                                                                                                                      I was not interested in talking with them in Vegas. All people who were there didn't have enough authorities. It's wasting your time. Just like I just did after making a 25 minutes long phone call to Ibill. From now on I'm not going to talk with them anymore. Only my lawyer will talk to them from now on!

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                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • [Labret]
                                                                                                                          Registered User
                                                                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                                                                          • 10945
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Sleepy
                                                                                                                          November 27th actually.
                                                                                                                          We lost all our rebills from the 27th to the end of the month on 5 different accounts so the date is fresh in my head.
                                                                                                                          Did you ever end up getting them?

                                                                                                                          I know the days they are ever behind on rebills I will get shit for rebills, then a couple days later when they catch up, days with 3 times the normal amount of rebills. Slight irritating but so long as I get them I dont care if it is Mon or Thursday, so long as they show up.

                                                                                                                          But 5 days of rebills gone? I remember that episode in Nov... but I also remember beginning of December them catching them all up.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • Sleepy
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                              • 679
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              I never got any of them back, bro.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • TheFLY
                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 11856
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Well this is not just a case of a few "affiliates" whining about a bug in IBill's stats software -- I don't think I need to make a list of all the problems we have had -- and the fact that they could give a shit...

                                                                                                                                  Two large programs are dropping IBill -- oxcash.com and Oliver-Klozov.com -- let the mass exodus begin...

                                                                                                                                  A solid reputation can only take so much abuse.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Ludedude
                                                                                                                                      Suck it!
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                      • 4432
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh fucking search and replace

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Theo
                                                                                                                                          HAL 9000
                                                                                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 34515
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          same with nastydollars,i ended up sending 2.5k clicks/day and no signups. now processor changed, signups back.

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • playa
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 6432
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              i am not the smartest man in the world,,
                                                                                                                                              but my guess is that ibill is a sinking ship,,,

                                                                                                                                              just doesn't make since to me with all these problems in the last 8 months that a company is still doing well...

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • freeones
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                  • 3406
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by TheFLY


                                                                                                                                                  Two large programs are dropping IBill -- oxcash.com and Oliver-Klozov.com -- let the mass exodus begin...

                                                                                                                                                  A solid reputation can only take so much abuse.
                                                                                                                                                  Mac & Bumble already left Ibill a couple of months ago. Score Cash and Totem Cash are leaving them soon too. These are all large programs. I'm sure the rest is following soon....... bye bye Ibill

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                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Sleepy
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                                                      • 679
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Ibill is a large company. If they could throw money at the problem and fix it, it would be fixed already. I gaurantee they will pull through, but the 'upgrades' story doesnt hold water anymore.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • funkmaster
                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                          • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                                                          • 7938
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          "Score Cash and Totem Cash are leaving them soon too. These are all large programs."

                                                                                                                                                          ... sorry, never heared of them!

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • [Labret]
                                                                                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                              • 10945
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Sleepy
                                                                                                                                                              I never got any of them back, bro.
                                                                                                                                                              Now that is a legitimate bitch.

                                                                                                                                                              Seriously, I have never heard of, or experienced, disappearing sales. You contacted and heard nothing back?

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • Theo
                                                                                                                                                                  HAL 9000
                                                                                                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                  • 34515
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  some of the best galleries out there carry these babes

                                                                                                                                                                  http://scoreland.com
                                                                                                                                                                  http://score-cash.com

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • Ludedude
                                                                                                                                                                      Suck it!
                                                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                      • 4432
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                                                                                                                                      "Score Cash and Totem Cash are leaving them soon too. These are all large programs."

                                                                                                                                                                      ... sorry, never heared of them!
                                                                                                                                                                      Do they run any adult websites?

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • Theo
                                                                                                                                                                          HAL 9000
                                                                                                                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                          • 34515
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          new smile face?

                                                                                                                                                                          hahahaha

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • funkmaster
                                                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                                                                              • 7938
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              ... thanks soul! what about ars? how long will they stand the presure ??

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • ElvisManson
                                                                                                                                                                                  Looking California
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 5476
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                                                                                                                                                  "Score Cash and Totem Cash are leaving them soon too. These are all large programs."

                                                                                                                                                                                  ... sorry, never heared of them!
                                                                                                                                                                                  Totem cash runs Virtua Girl.... Maybe you've heard of that?

                                                                                                                                                                                  Scores cash is based on the NYC strip club and is owned by the same guy....

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • Theo
                                                                                                                                                                                      HAL 9000
                                                                                                                                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 34515
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not an expert on CC processing neither very familiar, but I assume ibill has certain levels based on X data. ARS is the largest adult sponsor in my opinion, which means priority, special treatment or whatever you want call it. Perhaps even in the worst day of ibill the last 365 days according to Labret stantards, ARS didn't face any problem. I recognise the intelligent of the people running ARS and they were facing that serious problems they would have dropped ibill even if they had free CC processing.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Last edited by Theo; 01-30-2002, 12:58 PM.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • Sleepy
                                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 679
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by [Labret]

                                                                                                                                                                                          Now that is a legitimate bitch.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Seriously, I have never heard of, or experienced, disappearing sales. You contacted and heard nothing back?
                                                                                                                                                                                          Im a "premium customer". I e-mailed the rep and got an e-mail saying he would check into it. After two weeks I replied and said thanks ( thats my nice way of asking if they had an answer yet ) and that e-mail was never replied to either. After 4 weeks of the sales rep hiding and CMI problems we dropped everything that had to do with Ibill. We changed all our sites over to ccbill and dropped all Ibill revshare programs. What else can you do ? My whole experience with them was really poor. We had RevShare security problems too, but Im not using them so I wont even go into that. People have been calling me for weeks asking me to sell their Ibill sites again - no way. I went through all that crap with Epoch long ago. After Epoch.. the first time I cant see my money or the check doesnt show I bail out. I guess Im a little more paranoid than others so you have to take my actions with a grain of salt. The Epoch thing ruined my faith in any processor.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • [Labret]
                                                                                                                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 10945
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              I will admit I had no idea how shitty revsharers are / were being treated. I have never used a sponsor who used iBill for processing.

                                                                                                                                                                                              And in all fairness, if you make over a certain amount you are placed in the "premium" accounts category. I fall into that category and is probably why when I email my account rep or premium customer service I get quicker responses or am dealt with differently. I dont know... maybe its why they so good to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Even still, to sit around and predict the demise of the largest and oldest 3 part processor out there due to reporting problems is just ignorant.

                                                                                                                                                                                              These people get a huge amount of respect from me just for making it this far. Most of you have no idea what you are talking about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • [Labret]
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Registered User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 10945
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Sleepy


                                                                                                                                                                                                  Im a "premium customer". I e-mailed the rep and got an e-mail saying he would check into it. After two weeks I replied and said thanks ( thats my nice way of asking if they had an answer yet ) and that e-mail was never replied to either. After 4 weeks of the sales rep hiding and CMI problems we dropped everything that had to do with Ibill. We changed all our sites over to ccbill and dropped all Ibill revshare programs. What else can you do ? My whole experience with them was really poor. We had RevShare security problems too, but Im not using them so I wont even go into that. People have been calling me for weeks asking me to sell their Ibill sites again - no way. I went through all that crap with Epoch long ago. After Epoch.. the first time I cant see my money or the check doesnt show I bail out. I guess Im a little more paranoid than others so you have to take my actions with a grain of salt. The Epoch thing ruined my faith in any processor.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Made that last post before I read this. Damn, I would be paranoid and bitter as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jimmyf
                                                                                                                                                                                                      OU812
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 12651
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      ibill and every person that owns a pay site better dam sure worry about affiliates. But form what I've read here and
                                                                                                                                                                                                      on other boards they really think there shit DON'T STINK's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      One of the 1st thing's I learned about selling,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      word of mouth is the best advertising you can have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Word of mouth will do you in so fast it will make your head spin..

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just one small humble webmaster here, 2 you people
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that use ibill.... This guy will not sign up for any program that is using ibill nor will be in the future..

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And am getting rid of sponsor's I have RAT now that use them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And I've told all other small webmasters that I know, don't touch them with a 10 ft pole.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now just were would most of you pay site's owner's be if you didn't have affiliates?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some of the shit I read on this board really does make me think, most of you didn't make it as far as me in school...Am a 5th grade drop out by the way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last edited by jimmyf; 01-30-2002, 01:14 PM.
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