Snake Doctor

I'm not trying to sound like chicken little here.....but even companies that have a TOS that clearly states they accept ZERO mail traffic, and terminate affiliate accounts who do send mail traffic, are getting fucked by the FTC now.

Apparently it just takes one spammer to mail for your program and even if you term their account the FTC can still sue and fine you?
That's pretty fucked up.

How many 6 figure fines and/or court battles will it take for all of these companies to decide affiliates just aren't worth it anymore?

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XPays

the we did not know defense has fooled you?


spammers only mail companies that pay. solution: terminate and cancel w/o pay and then voila - no more "rogues"

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Snake Doctor

So what you're saying is that the companies named by the FTC are guilty, were in on it, or were sending the mail themselves?

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ricks

I get like 10 spams a day from Nextdoorcash, Megapornbucks and Silvercash, wonder why they werent listed? Never got any spams from the other companies, wonder how they picked who to target?

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[QUOTE=DavieVegas]Now i apologize for people who I have scammed in the past or future.QUOTE]

tony286

I can see it changing ,either it goes all in house or buying traffic or actually interviewing affiliates.

Snake Doctor

From the way it looks all a company would have to do to cripple their competition is send out a shitload of spam through anonymous proxies to their competitors site(s).

Since they're not trying to track down the people who actually sent the mail but rather the recipients of the traffic, it would be pretty easy to fuck someone.

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E Guru

That is why you approve accounts before people signup. Or make your program invite only. Fuck the noobs

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Guru

Kevsh

See my similar response in other thread:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=494390

I'd like to see how this plays out, I don't think it's over by a longshot. And by the way, have they targeted any "mainstream" affiliate programs yet - or is this just another adult industry witch hunt?

Snake Doctor

It still wouldn't stop people from trying to fuck you.
They could get approved, and spam from anonymous proxies....hell they don't even HAVE to be affiliates, they can just spam right to your direct url and then you're fucked if the FTC finds out about it.

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tony286

Your right I get more mortgage spam then anything else lol

RogerV

I'm sure Microsoft planted seeds to see if they got paid out etc. or did whatever research was necessary. At least I hope since they helped in the investigation.

It does suck all around

Tempest

A. We don't know what sort of agreements some companies have made.. For all we know they've agreed to turn over to the FCC the names and details of anyone that's caught spamming their sites.

B. Go ahead and signup to some sites.. use a VERY unique email address.. wait a few weeks.. You will soon be getting spam on that email addess that is non compliant, advertises other sites/sponsors.. and... is the same design etc. as a lot of the other spam you're getting.

ronaldo

Yeah. I keep seeing these news programs paying money to people with news video.

Maybe I'll make it a hobby and make a few extra dollars.

I hope if I bring in some video I take of my naked neighbor, (who's pics I got from looking through her bedroom window around midnight btw) the newsstation doesn't get charged with invasion of privacy.

Exactly. Some of us predicted this back in January.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...light=sabotage

tranza

Come on!

Are those the only programs that send spam to you?

What a bunch of bullshit!

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I'm just a newbie.

tony286

yep I would have go with that lol

Pipecrew

As others said, this was the first wave, they already said who the next on the list are (second wave) and it will continue.. Even the FTC guy said in the Ynot interview, they are starting at the top and working there way down.

You'd be stupid allowing spam and thinking you wont get caught because you are some small operation.. They are going to get everyone..

luv$

Didn't it mention in the article that what makes the FTC's case stronger is that the programs were effectively paying people to spam out on their behalf?

Don't pay spammers who are'nt compliant, simple as that.

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OldSchoolJim

think the targets have something to do with the high profile spammers that have been going down lately?

maybe a little deal making perhaps?

Works with drug dealers.....you can believe they have some pretty sizeable evidence...

jayeff

There have been lots of messages of sympathy and support here today, but if you had the patience to scan back over the past few years on all the boards, you could collect hundreds of threads in which people complained about (often well-known) sponsors ignoring complaints about spam. The conclusion in every one of those threads: they won't do anything about it so long as they earn money.

When the brown-smelly stuff first hit the fan a few months ago, a lot of sponsors either added a no-spam/no-mail rule to their TOS or reminded their affiliates that they already had one. But what are the odds that a lot of affiliates didn't take them seriously: especially the sponsors who already banned spam in theory, but reliably paid out on it? And what are the odds that once they had reminded their affiliates not to spam, that is all most sponsors did? Come to that, what are the odds that at least a few sponsors weren't really too concerned if affiliates went on spamming, providing it didn't backfire on them?

But simply posting a rule, even if it is in large type and not buried in the small print of your TOS, isn't near enough to be considered "due diligence". And it's kind of hard to feel sorry for people who, if they had consulted competent lawyers, would surely have been told that. Basically, if you can be held responsible for what an affiliate does, then you have to put systems in place to demonstrate that you actually check his activities.

As the rules proliferate, the ability of some sponsors to get organized will be tested and their expenses will be increased. So some probably will bring their traffic generation in-house and others will quit. A lot of affiliates will fall by the wayside too over the next 5-10 years.

It is a pity all this is being forced on us from outside, but in the long run, anything which sidelines the cowboys has to be good for the industry.

BlackCrayon

these recent charges by the ftc seems like nothing more than an attack on the adult industry. in any other industry you would not see a company take the heat for the illegal doings of an affiliate.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

tony286

not really my kid gets a mortgage spam in his email so what , he gets some girl sucking on two dicks not good. Or if I dont want to see porn its different

Nasty

Whats to stop a spammer from fucking a program over by spamming it even if it doesnt have an affiliate program?

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“Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)

blackfeet

so that's how they made the big bucks!!! LOL

i spammed twice in 1998 and lost my isp account both times.
never spammed after that and was still able to make 6 figures 7 years in a row.

the law is the law. no excuses...get used to it if you want to stay in the adult business!!!

3piece chicken Dinner

I know I bust balls with people sometimes. BUT

please review THIS thread.

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/490899-sponsor.html


That's how spammers are treated. NOT ONE sponsor asked where the traffic is coming from. And to be honest it's not hard to spot when someone is mailing your site, rapid influx of traffic. and joins. I call bullshit on anyone who claims they didn't know they were being mailed. Ask anyone who " used to accept" mail. If they are honest they will tell you the same damn thing.


So Lenny to answer your question NO it's not the end. It is just another responsibility of a program to watch their traffic and crush a problem when the find it OR pay the price.

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Snake Doctor

Right but companies like Topbucks and Pimproll both say they don't accept mail traffic and say they terminate accounts immediately if they're caught spamming...,...and the FTC still went after them

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jayeff

I already answered this. The likely issue is whether or not they did anything to actually check that affiliates were not spamming...

When you have a responsibility under law, if you do not want to be held liable when something goes wrong, you have to be able to prove that you took reasonable steps to prevent the failure. You not only need checks in place, but documentation to demonstrate that the checks were carried out.

Tempest

Yes, the FTC still went after them... so?

There's a difference between cancelling accounts if they're "caught" and actually policing your affiliates. The top 10-30 affiliates at any program should be audited. But even then, you can check the referer logs and they'll probably be some web page.. So then how can you as a program tell if the traffic to that webpage is from some legitimate traffic source like search engines, groups, other sites etc., or from email??

llporter

So can your mailing

3piece chicken Dinner

Thank you jayeff.

Thats my point. Has anyone mailed your site Lenny?? Your a bright guy, if they did you would know instantly. As far as mailing pages?? Most would use a landing page I agree. but if you get 12,000 hits to your website in 24hours from
http://gamubaba.com/queenforayearand...ryear/redo.htm

are you not going to know?? Wouldn't you at least question it? c'mon playing dumb isn't going to cut it any longer guys.

It's not the end, it's just time to clean up our acts, and if we don't we will pay for it.


* interesting note, that url came from a spam to my 7year old sons KidsAol account.

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"We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

3piece chicken Dinner

Says the person begging for the 100 spam joins in the thread posted above 10 days ago.

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"We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

The short answer is no.

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VeriSexy

I am still getting shitloads of porn spam........ Don't think the FTC will really do that much.........

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Snake Doctor

Ok but YOU are still not getting MY point.
Sure, if someone was mailing my site I would know it, and then I would termintate their account and not pay them.
And then the FTC could STILL come after me....because the mail has already been sent, it's already ended up in some kids inbox and their parents have complained to whatever government agency.

In this scenario I'm held liable, even though I never authorized the mailing, never paid for the mailing, had nothing whatsoever to do with the mailing.

The FTC seems to want to go after the recipients of the traffic rather than the people who actually sent out the mail. There will definitely be some innocent companies caught up in all of this.

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Snake Doctor

Another thing I'd like to point out. The little guys would definitely notice something like this....but what about a company like topbucks?
If you're doing 1000's of joins a day and have over 10K affiliates does an affiliate who does 100 joins in a period from a mailer really stand out that much?
What if you don't catch it before the checks get cut? Then you paid for the mailing so you're liable?

My point is that it might not be long before alot of these companies decide affiliates are just too much of a liability.....in regards to this, 2257, and a number of other issues, and just cut affiliates out of the picture altogether.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Thats what they all say.

Sorry kid.
And people call me stupid?

Damn.

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Snake Doctor

Oh I see, so you know for a FACT that these companies violate their own spam policies? Is that what you're saying?

And regardless of whether or not the companies involved in this first round of fines were actually guilty, my point is still valid that if they're going to go after people who receive the traffic rather than going after the people who actually send the spam then anyone with an affiliate program can get into deep shit regardless of their spam policy.


Oh...and people call you stupid for very good reasons

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3piece chicken Dinner

The simple answer to this is what did YOU DO as the program owner to stop this behavior. What did you DO that you can PROVE. again What did you DO that you can PROVE. Did you document? Did you report can spam violations to the proper authorities?? What did you do? Term and account?? LOL Kept the joins though LOL

This isn't being treated as a game.

And I will say it again. I dont' care who you are. YOU WILL NOTICE MAIL TRAFFIC immediatly. I don't care if you TopBucks 2005 Or CE circa 1997. 5 joins or 5000 joins a day. If you are not noticing, you NOT DOING YOUR JOB. end story. The Big Mystical Company that is so busy that they didn't even notice the new affiliate with the 100 joins doesn't exist. Hell if I sent Bang/OX 35 joins ( only using them as example due to size) they would notice and don't think they wouldn't. if you do your fooling yourself.

If you detect non compliant mail traffic. Document urls, term the affilaite, and report to authorites. Was that difficult??? nope. and keep this with your other important records it serves as an excellent paper trail which PROVES your stance on this type of promotion and traffic. It might not make you the "cool" kid on the block, but the point will get across to the proper people. Protect your business. Follow the law.

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"We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Thats exactly what I am saying.

WTF you dont get it?
I got a bridge I can sell you.

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Nismo

Why would it end Affiliate Programs?

If a spammer wants to hurt you - he'll just mail your site. He doesn't need to be an affiliate, he'll just mail the url. Simple as that.

Spammers know not to mail programs that they dont make deals with. Simple as that.

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i buy massive xxx dating traffic.

davethetruth

We've had this policy since the very beginning circa 1997:

Step 3) Agree Not To Spam



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand that both e-mail and newsgroup spamming are COMPLETELY PROHIBITED and will result in my IMMEDIATE TERMINATION from the program and FORFEITURE OF ALL MY EARNINGS.
I AGREE NOT TO SPAM: NO YES




And luckily we haven't had anyone break the rules in years and years and years.

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jayeff

I am getting your point: believe me. But you still insist on missing the point a couple of us are trying to get across...

This is not by a long way the only scenario in which it is not good enough to wait until after the event to take action (and btw will you keep the sale, thereby effectively condoning the action while penalizing the person who committed it?). One example would be the same responsibility banks face in respect of money launderers and they avoid prosecution by taking precautions to avoid their accounts being used in this way.

Sponsors who want to avoid being prosecuted for affiliates spam will have to prove they took reasonable steps to prevent such abuse. "I told them not to do it" won't hack it.

3piece chicken Dinner

Thank you Jayeff for letting me know I am not crazy, and what I typed was able to be understood.


At this point if you don't understand, you don't WANT to understand. And that is fine. Protect your business how you see fit. but playing dumb and helpless isn't going to save you.


Proactive with documentation will.

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"We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."