50...........

So you know this by your many months of conversing with them in their homes, mosques, etc?



Sorry man, I'm with TheDoc on this one, and I also spent over a decade in the US military and quite a bit of time in that region...so rule out the coward or 100% bleeding heart liberal hippie argument (I'm only 95% liberal ;) )...



The scene you have to imagine from their viewpoint would be this (from the little bit of reading I've done on the topic):

1) Are we done giving Israel billions of dollars a year and the palestinians very little in comparision?

2) Are we done setting up permanent camp in Saudi?

3) How many decades do we plan on being in Iraq & Afganistan? (Psst, they know that Korea exists and that we've been there for several decades)...past actions speak louder than words

4) Are we done threatening Iran?

5) Fortunately we're done killing Iraqi civilians in large numbers now that the major standard military offensive is over...the extremists seem to be picking up that slack in the guerilla phase, which is not a calming factor no matter how you slice it...


:/


.

PS: I don't blame Bush or Blair for this attack, I blame our lack of shifting our ill advised foreign policies and primarily focusing only on the 'war' side of fixing things...


.that takes a lot more than one or two major world leaders to make happen, it takes congress, parliment and a TON of public opinion...

Im not from the US shit for brains, I dont listen to your government, so explain what you know that we all all dont, or shut the fuck up. You obviously know fuck all or you would explain yourself instead of making retarted posts on how others should learn as much as you

I live in a heavey muslim area in London, so yes unlike you I speak to them daily.

Ill answer your questions one at a time

1) Yes thats fucked up and the UK have been pushing the US on this point for the last 10 years

2) No your not done yet, you have a fucked up foreign policy, which although fucked up wouldnt want them to kill you less.

3) I guess untill either they kill you all, or the Arab nations kill their own terrorists, what ever comes first

4) No I think you want their oil to much, but this time when you invade, you will be alone, the UK wont be tagging along, that doesnt stop the fact that extremists want you dead

nice.. you're a stand up guy.

too bad the other ones won't simply answer this question because they know it will happen eventually. Countries who are not in the coalition will be attacked for various reasons that terrorists will make up. and maybe THEN people will understand better...

that and we are in Afghanastan looking for Osama.. no?

So you want me to write proof that they don't want everyone in the world dead? What exactly do you want me to prove? You want me to post proof that they want me dead or that they want everyone dead, white, black, american, candian, etc?

Could you post proof that they want everyone dead too? Myself and my family? I'm sure some of them want me dead but I'm sure some don't. It's called logic and I'm sorry I can't give any to yourself, the world seems to be all out.

I never said everyone in the world, just all non muslims and westerners, these are not mainstream muslims, these are fanatics, they dont think and believe like we do, they strap nail bombs to them selves and blow them selves up to get to there own fucked up version of paradise, they could not give two flying fucks if we were in Iraq or not

I have heard that there are a ton of muslims in the UK and France, must be fairly interesting to see the reactions of that population during times like this...My main experience with them comes from some encounters in LA growing up, and the few times I was deployed to their countries in both war and peacetime operations... I found most of them to be really just pissed at our middle east policies and the blatent disparity of our treatment of the palestinians vs israelis (not that I'd ever get into THAT chicken or the egg argument) lol...but it surely is lop-sided today, I doubt anyone in their right mind would argue that...


as for your reply to 4...I surely hope we don't 'liberate' Iran, although Kissenger thinks it's pretty much a done deal...and I'm not sure if I can disagree with his line of thinking...this is surely about oil but it also has some merit as a discussion of global security, what i think is HUGELY lacking in any current day standard political discussions is how to fix our fucked up foreign policies so that they do NOT have an argument to bitch about when they attack us...

ok, so we

1) Stop treating one more favorably in the Israeli/Palestinian area and if needed, back out of those negotiations entirely and hire the tibetan buddhists to do it...

2) Get out of Saudi and run our operations from welcoming governments in the region, or from a distance that's purely out of their neck of the woods (we do have a kick ass Air Force and Navy that can ship people over there fast as needed to do any required ass kicking)

3) Speed up the process of turning Iraq & Afganistan back over to their governments, run it from a distance if needed and just outsource the gun toating people to another UN country or one of their neighboring countries...

4) Bottom line, leave them the fuck alone, so the next time they attack us anywhere in the world, and we've 'left them alone and or treated them equally fairly' they have "ZERO" argument for attacking us OR RECRUITING new members to their cause...


take the wind out of their sails so to speak...


...and if they continue to fuckup after that, we proceed with Operation GLASS FACTORY


:)

Spot on. They want an Islamic world - or at least their version of it. Its a war of faith and belief. There is nothing more deadly than a man armed with these two things. Its also a war between two mutually exclusive cultures - Iraq, Afganistan, Israel/Palastine, Bush, Blair are just convenient banners which people shout at each other and mean jack shit...

..and I seem to recall 9/11 happened before the US invaded anyone...so to blame the west is arse about face..

The U.S need to stop blaming themselves for a hand full of fantic murderers, I have posted many times, that the US policy towards Israel and palastine is fucked up. But that doesnt change the fact, that these extremists believe in there own version of the Muslim faith and want all US, UK and western countries dead. these are not Muslims, but extremist murdering filth. The only way to deal with them is to hunt them down and kill them, just like Sadam did before we decided to invade.

The Iraq issue and the terorist issue are two different issues, the sooner the US population understands that the better for evetyone

Exactly, they won't be happy until there own fuckled up version of there faith is ruling the world. you cannot negotiate with people who dont think you have the right to live. If there is any U.S people or U.K people out there who dont yet understand this, you are in for a big shock. They want you dead. Like it or not, they wont be happy until you are dead.

This is a photo archive of what happened on 9/11.. This is proof that our gov will do anything to get its own agenda passed while working with so called terrorists to assist with that agenda.

Clear enough proof of this is that Bin Ladan was in the United States, at the Bush ranch, a short time before the 9/11 crap went down. Even though at that point he was still on the CIA watch list, he still came into America. Why? Because Bush and Bin are Buds. Bush owns stock in the Bin business, and bin owns stocks in the Bush business.. Extremists my ass.. It's all about oil, money, power, and control. They tell our guys to go kill these people, just like Bin tells his guys to go blow these people up.. Sheep being lead by the Shepards.

Are you saying that Afghanistan is the first country that the US invaded ???? :eek2

Amazing... a muslim friend said the same word for word ....

Bin Laden had everything, he was a millionaire, he gave it all up, to live in a mud hut and Kill Americans. Financialyy what had the multi millionaire gained now he lives in a mud hut?

I live with Muslims, I was with 6 tonight, trust me they hate these hahahahas as much, if not more than we do. They know that they wont be happy until the world is an Islamic state. Tonight my 6 muslim friends will I expect be in fear of non muslims who think, that they all think the same way.

Im telling you, make no mistake about this, especially if you are from the U.S or U.K these extremists want you dead. They wont rest until they are dead, or you are dead, thats a fact and the sooner you come to terms with is the better.

The U.S policy towards Palastine is fucked up, but that doesnt change the fact, that either way they would still want you dead tonight

I don't think he is chillin a mud hut. Most mud huts don't have electricity or recording/video editing equipment. I?m sure him and his millions and his minions are chillin in a nice place provided by his good?ol pal Bush. A nice safe place to lead the flock while our boys hunt around for a guy they will never find.

You think living in a mud hut with millions of dollars of prize money on your head and the chance that when the first US soldier finds you, you are dead is better than being a millionaire playboy in Saudi?

I know where I would rather be

There has ALREADY been attacks on other places. Like Bali and in Marocco. These are TERRORISTS and not military. They attack SOFT TARGETS and SYMBOLIC places like a tourist area.

Only if you shut your mouth and admit you were wrong about supprting Bush and his WMD in Iraq.......oh wait......... you won't shut your mouth regardless of how wrong you were.

BTW Criminals(terrorists) will continue to kill innocent people for whatever insane (religous) reason regardless of how many innocent people we kill in retaliation(ie: IRAQ).


Blah Blah Blah AlexG is GAy Blah Blah Blah(not that I have anything against gay people)

Oh they will get around 2 all of them, Canada, Germany, France and many more..

They just plain don't like the way we or they live.. They are fanatic's, with no hope in life.

When France gets it, they MIGHT use the head scarf issue or may not. France will get hit, I really thought it would be them this time..

Anyone that lives in the west better wake the fuck up, those mother fuckers want your ass DEAD. And if you don't believe it you are a fucking moron.

Fucking exactly.

These hahahahas wont be happy untill they or you are dead. Please remember these hahahahas blow themselves up to hurt the passers by, they couldnt give a fuck what happens as long as they die trying

You are mistaken if you think this is about oil.. They don't just want to be left alone... They want 2 convert you, or kill you and you can bank on that.

I guess you could blame Bush for shit 25 years ago:1orglaugh , because that's how long this last rash of terrorism has been going on.

Technically I think the last country the US invaded was Greneda (could be wrong though)...actually as a rule the US is not really that high in the invading stakes!

...but for he purposes of the discussion I sort of discounted Grenada..unless some conspiracy nut wants to draw a link between Greneda and 9/11...me I am going with the 'no-link' theory! Hence the current round of troubles was pretty much initiated by 9/11...and no I don't want endless arguments of 'but 9/11 was triggered by blah, blah'

Oh Kuwait in the last Gulf war was not legally classed as an invasion, neither was Vietnam or Korea and in WWII everyone was invading everyone else so everyone is off the hook except the Germans and the Japanese!!

I was wrong when I thought Iraq had WMD. There were no WMD found.

But I supported the war (and still do) for other reasons as well which I stated today in another thread I think.

I never said we should kill innocent people, so please stfu and don't put words in my mouth.

nice to know some people are down with reality...

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh oky dokey

That is just as bad as when Hitler said ALL the Jews were bad and wanted to control everybody else.
Why can't you see the correlation between Hitler's thinking and yours, AlexG?

You think ALL Muslims are bad and want kill/assimilate everybody else.

really don't think he said ALL Muslims. and I didn't mean ALL Muslims

who said anything about ALL muslims you fucking retard???

you can't make me think the way you want to by repeating your bullshit you dumbass...

You support bombing innocent people in IRAQ in retaliation for what a bunch of Saudi Criminals did---the only connection being that they are all muslims.

Your previous posts in other threads illustrate full well your hatred for ALL muslims (obviously biast from your experience in Israel).

What the fuck are you taking in that University anyways? You seem real dumb.

Whahaha... very few muslim men are still virgin as they marry, yet almost every muslim woman is. You do the math :winkwink:

So who should we attack? All muslims or just the ones with oil?

I agree that Criminals(terrorists) should be punished/killed. But killing innocent families in retaliation only breeds more hate(criminals).

You really don't get it, it's not about oil...innocent people have gotten killed in just about every war that has been. That's part of war has been and always will be.. and you better believe this is a war.

A war with who??? ALL MUSLIMS???

never mind you are stupid... bye

If you can't back up your point then just say so....dumb-ass.

Then who do you consider this war to be against? The "terrorists" that were in Iraq before you started bombing it? You fucking guys should seriously turn off the TV and pick up a history textbook every once and a while. Contrary to what they tell you on Fox, being informed is not a bad thing.

You're wrong. Educate yourself about Air India flight 182, sometimes referred to as "Canada's 9-11", although it happened quite a number of years earlier. We've also experienced various other, home-grown terrorist activities (sabotage of oil production in alberta, FLQ blowing up buildings, etc). Quite a number of canucks died in the WTC too, although try beating THAT point through the 4-inch thick concrete skulls of the armchair commandos.

The difference is that Canada (and apparently the Brits) don't live in abject terror from future attacks, nor gladly hand over our various freedoms in exchange for bragging rights over brown people body counts and an imaginary sense of protection or safety. We appear to lack the reprehensible administration which has tried to wring every last bit of political gain out of the situation as possible, or the increasingly substandard 'journalism' being churned out by the Newsertainment networks that would keep us properly fearful and easy to control.

The real villain behind the bombing

http://www.gregboone.com/gfy/bombvoyage2.jpg
http://www.gregboone.com/gfy/bombvoyage.jpg

Some data people might find interesting, courtesy BTC news: the number of terrorist attacks yearly for the last 10 years.

http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/image...nalattacks.png

Yeah, the numbers are small, but legible if you squint. :winkwink:

An ironic sidenote: This graph does NOT include terrorist attacks within Iraq, although Bush claims iraq is the 'front line in the war on terror'. If those numbers were factored in, the average of roughly 4 car bombs a day would put those attack numbers up by around 2000 additional attacks, or about 7 times higher than the current high water mark on that graph. To my knowledge, it doesn't include Afghanistan either, so crank it up some more.

When this man speaks, shut up and listen.

:thumbsup

Maybe thru time reality will hit! Meanwhile the billions spent on "protecting the homeland" (bin Laden would smile!) and "taking the front to the enemy" (nice to fight on familiar ground - saves travelling!) in Iraq is a nice diversion from real issues where there is nada aptitude.... anyone remember the economy, healthcare or much else?

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees with you.

"With the possible exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist organizations active in Canada than anywhere in the world. This situation can be attributed to Canada?s proximity to the United States which currently is the principal target of terrorist groups operating internationally; and to the fact that Canada, a country built upon immigration, represents a microcosm of the world. It is therefore not surprising that the world?s extremist elements are represented here, along with peace-loving citizens. Terrorist groups are present here whose origins lie in regional, ethnic and nationalist conflicts, including the Israeli-Palestinian one, as well as those in Egypt, Algeria, Sudan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, the Punjab, Sri Lanka, Turkey and the former Yugoslavia.

By way of example, the following terrorist or front groups acting on their behalf have or had supporters in Canada: Hizballah and other Shiite Islamic terrorist organizations; Hamas; the Egyptian Al Jihad and various other Sunni Islamic extremist groups from across the Middle East and Maghreb; the Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA), the Tamil Tigers (LTTE), the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), and all the world?s major Sikh terrorist groups. Some supporters of the international Islamic Jihad cause are also present in Canada, with a few of them possibly linked to Al Qaida."

"Terrorism in Canada can be divided into roughly four categories: religious extremism, with various Sunni Islamic groups being the most serious threat at present; state-sponsored terrorism; secessionist violence, which encompasses Sikh extremism, and separatist movements in Sri Lanka, Turkey, Ireland and the Middle East; and domestic extremism, including some anti-abortion, animal rights, anti-globalization and environmental groups, a small but receptive audience for militia messages emanating from the United States, and white supremacists.

The bombings, kidnappings and subsequent murder of Quebec Cabinet Minister Pierre Laporte by the Front de libération du Québec (FLQ) in the late 1960s and early 1970s represent the most violent period of domestic terrorism in Canada. However, during the 1980s, Canada was subject to a spillover of violence from conflicts abroad when Armenian and Sikh extremist groups carried out several terrorist operations on Canadian territory. A domestic left-wing extremist group (Direct Action) was implicated in a number of bombings in the early 1980s, but the perpetrators were arrested and sentenced to lengthy jail sentences, effectively ending the group?s existence. As well, the bombing of an Air India flight from Toronto in 1985, an act blamed on Sikh terrorists fighting for an independent homeland in India, resulted in 329 deaths. Most victims were Canadian."

Here is a link to their site so you can educate yourself.

People that think their country is immune to terrorism are really annoying. The ignorance associated with thinking terrorism only exists now, or because of the United States, really need to educate themselves. Every country on this planet has has terrorist acts commited on their soil. EVERY ONE.

I don't agree with the way our current administration is handling things. I don't support their actions. I'm also not ignorant to the truth that terrorism has always existed, and will continue to exist, becuase there are people full of hate that want to be noticed for the evil things they do in the name of their cause. It's always been like that, it will always be like this.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

YOU ARE WRONG :pimp

Britain has dealt with terrorism for over 30 years now.

? March 8, 1973: Two IRA car bombs explode outside London's Old Bailey courthouse and government's agriculture department headquarters, killing one and wounding more than 150.

? Oct. 5, 1974: Two IRA bombs explode in pubs in London suburb of Guildford; five dead, more than 50 injured.

? Nov. 21, 1974: Two IRA bombs in Birmingham kill 19 and wound more than 180.

? July 20, 1982: Two IRA bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park in London kill 11 British soldiers and wound more than 40, mostly civilians.

? Dec. 17, 1983: IRA car bomb explodes outside Harrod's department store, killing six and wounding about 100.

? Oct. 12, 1984: IRA targets conference of ruling Conservative Party, killing five and wounding 24, but narrowly missing Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

? Sept. 22, 1989: The IRA bombs the Royal Marines School of Music in Deal, killing 10 soldiers and wounding more than 30.

? Feb. 7, 1991: IRA fires three homemade mortar shells at No. 10 Downing Street, British prime minister's official residence in London. No injuries.

? April 10, 1992: Massive IRA truck bomb in London's financial district kills three and causes hundreds of millions of dollars of damage.

? March, 20, 1993: IRA bomb hidden in garbage can in shopping district of Warrington, northwest England, kills two boys aged 3 and 12.

? Feb. 9, 1996: IRA ends a 17-month cease-fire with a massive truck bomb in London's financial district, killing two.

? Feb. 18, 1996: An IRA bomber accidentally kills himself aboard a London double-decker bus, five injured.

? June 15, 1996: For first time, IRA targets a different English city ? Manchester in the northwest ? with a massive truck bomb, wrecking the central shopping area and wounding about 200.

? Sept. 20, 2000: IRA dissidents fire rocket-propelled grenaded at headquarters of MI5 security agency. No injuries.

? July 7, 2005: Four blasts rock the London subway system and a bus during the morning rush hour, killing at least 40 people, U.S. officials say. More than 360 people are wounded.

....uhm... france has been attacked by Islamic extremists. i believe the first terrorist attack on a subway was in france.

:2 cents:

in addition to terrorist attacks in french subways... wasn't there also many casese in the last year or so of explosives being planted on railroads??