Cross-sales on join pages: To Pre-Check or not Pre-Check... - GoFuckYourself.com

Mako · 07-07-2005, 12:48 AM

Just did an informal survey of various join pages and found the following results:

ARS: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$39.95 rebill).

Top Bucks: Currently pre-checks two different cross-sells (Both $1.00 trials, but two different rebill rates: $29.95 and $39.84l).

Nasty Dollars: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill).

Reality Cash: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$19.80 rebill).

Perfect Gonzo: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$29.95 rebill).

Bang Bros: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill).

I was surprised a bit as I expected there to be fewer pre-checked cross-sells based on typical GFY banter each day about charge backs etc. Looks like it's become pretty standard at the majors. All of the above use Paycom btw.

If it's so widespread at the top, why are the smaller mom & pop webmasters afraid to adopt it?

bigdog · 07-07-2005, 02:51 AM

well if you notice a pattern that everyone who is rich is using cross sells. Smaller programs rather kiss the surfers ass then make money plus you are not going to have happy affilates if you are a revshare program with cross sells

bigdog · 07-31-2005, 03:57 PM

bump de bump

Dalai lama · 07-31-2005, 04:01 PM

I ussualy sell the lower $ trials. And they work out just fine.

Dalai lama · 07-31-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

well if you notice a pattern that everyone who is rich is using cross sells. Smaller programs rather kiss the surfers ass then make money plus you are not going to have happy affilates if you are a revshare program with cross sells

Higher % for cross sales

Dalai lama · 07-31-2005, 04:06 PM

BTW. What does these sponsors payout per cross sale?

3piece chicken Dinner · 07-31-2005, 04:08 PM

Eh. alot have the cross sale. The one that makes me scratch my head is the prechecked cross sale a site that is on the " join now and get all insert number sites for free list" I don't understand why/how paycom can allow this.

I've seen an " All access" site with a prechecked cross sale to itself as recently as 10 minutes ago

Guess thats the way to get the ol bank roll phat and quick.

SteveLightspeed · 07-31-2005, 04:08 PM

Check the newbie dictionary for "prechecked cross sell"

3piece chicken Dinner · 07-31-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3piece chicken Dinner

Eh. alot have the cross sale. The one that makes me scratch my head is the prechecked cross sale a site that is on the " join now and get all insert number sites for free list" I don't understand why/how paycom can allow this.

I've seen an " All access" site with a prechecked cross sale to itself as recently as 10 minutes ago

Guess thats the way to get the ol bank roll phat and quick.

Just realized I didn't answer the question. Pre-check for a while and try it without. nothing has to be final.

Paparazzi · 07-31-2005, 04:27 PM

check sic cash

venus · 07-31-2005, 04:44 PM

lots of things used to be wide spread at the "top", a few years ago there were some bigger sites then you listed, I think the FTC judgement against them kinda cut into some of their profits. If it does not seem legit its probably not. I think prechecking additional memberships may have been on the judgement against those other sites a few years ago, not positive, but I think it was.

You can try anything you want, just make sure your not wrong or can handle the consequences that will eventually come down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

If it's so widespread at the top, why are the smaller mom & pop webmasters afraid to adopt it?

RogerV · 07-31-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

Just did an informal survey of various join pages and found the following results:

ARS: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$39.95 rebill).

Top Bucks: Currently pre-checks two different cross-sells (Both $1.00 trials, but two different rebill rates: $29.95 and $39.84l).

Nasty Dollars: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill).

Reality Cash: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$19.80 rebill).

Perfect Gonzo: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$29.95 rebill).

Bang Bros: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill).

I was surprised a bit as I expected there to be fewer pre-checked cross-sells based on typical GFY banter each day about charge backs etc. Looks like it's become pretty standard at the majors. All of the above use Paycom btw.

If it's so widespread at the top, why are the smaller mom & pop webmasters afraid to adopt it?

Hell yea baby they know what they are doing thats why

RogerV · 07-31-2005, 04:47 PM

I'm paying $18 per cross sale for 12pornosites 50% will leave it checked hit me up for more info

BVF · 07-31-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

well if you notice a pattern that everyone who is rich is using cross sells. Smaller programs rather kiss the surfers ass then make money plus you are not going to have happy affilates if you are a revshare program with cross sells

And this statement hereby ends this thread....Nothing more can be said.

Mako · 07-31-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

lots of things used to be wide spread at the "top", a few years ago there were some bigger sites then you listed, I think the FTC judgement against them kinda cut into some of their profits. If it does not seem legit its probably not. I think prechecking additional memberships may have been on the judgement against those other sites a few years ago, not positive, but I think it was.

You can try anything you want, just make sure your not wrong or can handle the consequences that will eventually come down.

It's all about transaction counts. If you're doing enough valid non-chargeback type transactions each day (i.e. cheap paid trials) then you can absorb just about anything and still not hit the magic 1% level. Which is why the biggies listed here can do it without a problem. Hell Top Bucks even has two pre-checked at the moment, some poor sons a bitches get dinged with a nice $100 rebill after the 3-Day trials recur I'd imagine...yeah that's good for the industry.

Since I started this thread I've been playing with cross-sells being pre-checked and the only surfers who are leaving them in place are non-English speaking. I'm going to assume it's because they probably don't know to un-check them, which brings up an entirely different ethical discussion...

Mako · 07-31-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Hell yea baby they know what they are doing thats why

I didn't check you guys Rog, what is PP doing at the moment on them?

SteveLightspeed · 07-31-2005, 05:02 PM

Making a full sale = getting laid
Upsell = You get to use the poop chute too
Getting a cross sell = she lets your friend fuck her too, now he owes you a 3some with his chick
One-click crosssell = introducing her to your friend, while she's naked in your bed, before she cums
Prechecked cross sell = all your friends fuck her after she passes out
Double prechecked cross sell = then they pee on her too

venus · 07-31-2005, 05:04 PM

Actually its all about deceptive practices. If you deceive people or your intent is to deceive which an argument can be made that prechecking a box is deceptive, because it could be left unchecked and if you wanted it then it checked.
here is some good reading into what the FTC saw as deceptive practices because of complaints.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/10/rjbtelcomcomplaint.htm
and some more indepth
http://www.lukeford.com/subjects/content/RJBTelcom.htm

I know most of you were all noobs in 1999-2000 or were not even on the scene yet, but if it looks deceptive it probably is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

It's all about transaction counts. If you're doing enough valid non-chargeback type transactions each day (i.e. cheap paid trials) then you can absorb just about anything and still not hit the magic 1% level..

RogerV · 07-31-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

I didn't check you guys Rog, what is PP doing at the moment on them?

Click here to signup for a 1 day trial Membership to 12 Porno Sites - One Day Trial Membership for $1.00. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $22.00 every 1 month.

look at how ours reads

Sounds much better than a name of a site LOL

If anyone copies me

I'm sure they will LOL

Adulter · 07-31-2005, 05:10 PM

I think it all depends on your chargeback ratio... bigger companies have less chargebacks % therefore they can go pre-checked... just imho

Mako · 07-31-2005, 05:11 PM

LOL Steve, wth...

Roger: Best text I've seen by far.

Venus: No question.

venus · 07-31-2005, 05:15 PM

here is the settlement
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/09/rjb1.htm

note the part which could easily be applied to prechecked sales:

" The settlement permanently bars the defendants from billing consumers without their express, verifiable authorization; "

SteveLightspeed · 07-31-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Click here to signup for a 1 day trial Membership to 12 Porno Sites - One Day Trial Membership for $1.00. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $22.00 every 1 month.

look at how ours reads

someone that doesn't read english sees this:

Rewwd fdds ds sdfaff ssd b 1 wes turko Slemebpsji og 12 swert niuty - Rop Wes Turko Slemebpsji ssd $1.00. mdere 1 wes, Slemebpsji piunts furpnwttpsd sp $22.00 lingo 1 wests.

Isn't a prechecked crosssell like finding out that, because you bought a hamburger, McDonalds also put McNuggets at the bottom of your bag and then charged you for it when you didn't request them to remove it before you left the counter?

Mako · 07-31-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Isn't a prechecked crosssell like finding out that, because you bought a hamburger, McDonalds also put McNuggets at the bottom of your bag and then charged you for it when you didn't request them to remove it before you left the counter?

That's a good analogy, and the same point Venus is making, using the FTC's language to illustrate it.

As to it being something that is actively pursued, as mailers are per se, with fines and punishment, versus just not being allowed any longer at some point, is the real question (barring ethical repercussions).

It might be a case where sponsors are figuring "Well it won't last forever. So I'm making hay while the sun shines" assuming that eventually CC processors simply won't allow it. It's pretty clear they don't fear any sort of active reprisal by the FTC over it as they do mailers.

venus · 07-31-2005, 05:38 PM

People dont fear something untill it happens.
You ever watch cops ... see the bad guy getting busted, crying their ass off and saying they are sorry, dont take me to jail ... crying like little bitches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mako

It's pretty clear they don't fear any sort of active reprisal by the FTC over it as they do mailers.

Theo · 07-31-2005, 05:43 PM

venus, if cross sales were considered deceiving by the FTC they wouldn't be available since long time ago. The rjb case was different:

"In October 2000, the FTC filed suit in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, Arizona alleging that RJB Telecom and its principals, Robert and Richard Botto, operated adult web sites that provided viewers a free "teaser" visit and allowed the option of paying by credit cards or telephone bills for membership. According to the FTC, large numbers of consumers complained that they were billed for access to the web sites without their authorization, and in many instances, had never accessed the web sites at all. "

Quickdraw · 07-31-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Click here to signup for a 1 day trial Membership to 12 Porno Sites - One Day Trial Membership for $1.00. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $22.00 every 1 month.

look at how ours reads

Sounds much better than a name of a site LOL

If anyone copies me

I'm sure they will LOL

Are these the same 12 sites you promise for free on the tour(s)?

Quote:

Join now and receive 12 sites at no additional charge!

Just checking.

venus · 07-31-2005, 06:14 PM

you can read it anyway you want it, prechecked sales are deceiving, people using themn know they are. I personally will not use them but your more then welcome.
you know back in 2000 people said the same thing about dialers - untill this case came down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

venus, if cross sales were considered deceiving by the FTC they wouldn't be available since long time ago. The rjb case was different:
"

Matt_WildCash · 07-31-2005, 06:58 PM

We have 2 prechecked crosses and it doesn't effect sales 1 bit from our experience 80-85% just uncheck it anyways. Plus its doesn't increase chargebacks we are at 0.20% chargeback ratio right now with 2 prechecked crosses. :-)

3piece chicken Dinner · 07-31-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Click here to signup for a 1 day trial Membership to 12 Porno Sites - One Day Trial Membership for $1.00. After 1 day, Membership renews automatically at $22.00 every 1 month.

look at how ours reads

Sounds much better than a name of a site LOL

If anyone copies me

I'm sure they will LOL

Is there a difference between 12pornosites and the Dirty dozen that the member gets for free when they join one of your sites?? The titles look the same. ...... I could be wrong thats why I am asking.

bigdog · 08-01-2005, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_WC

We have 2 prechecked crosses and it doesn't effect sales 1 bit from our experience 80-85% just uncheck it anyways. Plus its doesn't increase chargebacks we are at 0.20% chargeback ratio right now with 2 prechecked crosses. :-)

the 15% that leave it checked adds up

Quickdraw · 08-01-2005, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3piece chicken Dinner

Is there a difference between 12pornosites and the Dirty dozen that the member gets for free when they join one of your sites?? The titles look the same. ...... I could be wrong thats why I am asking.

I would like to know this too.

RogerV · 08-01-2005, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

someone that doesn't read english sees this:

Rewwd fdds ds sdfaff ssd b 1 wes turko Slemebpsji og 12 swert niuty - Rop Wes Turko Slemebpsji ssd $1.00. mdere 1 wes, Slemebpsji piunts furpnwttpsd sp $22.00 lingo 1 wests.

Isn't a prechecked crosssell like finding out that, because you bought a hamburger, McDonalds also put McNuggets at the bottom of your bag and then charged you for it when you didn't request them to remove it before you left the counter?

what's worse is when i bought my hamburger and drove off to find out they forgot to give me my ketchup, straw and napkins to save a few bucks even after they got me to super size.

RogerV · 08-01-2005, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3piece chicken Dinner

Is there a difference between 12pornosites and the Dirty dozen that the member gets for free when they join one of your sites?? The titles look the same. ...... I could be wrong thats why I am asking.

It's not the same. 12pornosites has its own members section

the dirty dozen has access into each members section of all the sites

hope this makes sense

RogerV · 08-01-2005, 07:36 AM

Wether I agree or dissagree with cross sales I have to do whatever it takes to keep up with the market and webmaster demands. its just business

OldSchoolJim · 08-01-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

If it's so widespread at the top, why are the smaller mom & pop webmasters afraid to adopt it?

You have to get "permission" from paycom to even HAVE a pre-checked cross....

If you do not do enough biz...they won't even let you do it....

Easton · 08-01-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Making a full sale = getting laid
Upsell = You get to use the poop chute too
Getting a cross sell = she lets your friend fuck her too, now he owes you a 3some with his chick
One-click crosssell = introducing her to your friend, while she's naked in your bed, before she cums
Prechecked cross sell = all your friends fuck her after she passes out
Double prechecked cross sell = then they pee on her too

ROTFLMFAO, great analogy Steve

3piece chicken Dinner · 08-01-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

It's not the same. 12pornosites has its own members section

the dirty dozen has access into each members section of all the sites

hope this makes sense

Perfect sense, that's why I asked.

Thanks RogerV

Bugbee · 08-01-2005, 09:29 AM

I BUY X SALES, I WILL PRE PAY AT $18 PER HIT ME UP ASAP!!

bigdog · 08-01-2005, 10:00 AM

perfectgonzo cross sells to themselves i assume the join is worth more to them like that

07-07-2005, 12:48 AM	#1
Mako Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The OC baby! Posts: 1,986	Cross-sales on join pages: To Pre-Check or not Pre-Check... Just did an informal survey of various join pages and found the following results: ARS: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$39.95 rebill). Top Bucks: Currently pre-checks two different cross-sells (Both $1.00 trials, but two different rebill rates: $29.95 and $39.84l). Nasty Dollars: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill). Reality Cash: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$19.80 rebill). Perfect Gonzo: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.00 trial/$29.95 rebill). Bang Bros: Currently pre-checks a single cross-sell ($1.95 trial/$26.91 rebill). I was surprised a bit as I expected there to be fewer pre-checked cross-sells based on typical GFY banter each day about charge backs etc. Looks like it's become pretty standard at the majors. All of the above use Paycom btw. If it's so widespread at the top, why are the smaller mom & pop webmasters afraid to adopt it? __________________

07-07-2005, 02:51 AM	#2
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	well if you notice a pattern that everyone who is rich is using cross sells. Smaller programs rather kiss the surfers ass then make money plus you are not going to have happy affilates if you are a revshare program with cross sells Last edited by bigdog; 07-07-2005 at 02:53 AM..

07-31-2005, 04:01 PM	#4
Dalai lama Strength and Honor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 16,540	I ussualy sell the lower $ trials. And they work out just fine. __________________ A program you can trust. Gallerybooster Run multiply TGPs of 1 script

07-31-2005, 04:06 PM	#6
Dalai lama Strength and Honor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 16,540	BTW. What does these sponsors payout per cross sale? __________________ A program you can trust. Gallerybooster Run multiply TGPs of 1 script

07-31-2005, 04:08 PM	#7
3piece chicken Dinner Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: On your plate Posts: 1,065	Eh. alot have the cross sale. The one that makes me scratch my head is the prechecked cross sale a site that is on the " join now and get all insert number sites for free list" I don't understand why/how paycom can allow this. I've seen an " All access" site with a prechecked cross sale to itself as recently as 10 minutes ago Guess thats the way to get the ol bank roll phat and quick. __________________ "We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

07-31-2005, 03:57 PM	#3
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	bump de bump

07-31-2005, 04:08 PM	#8
SteveLightspeed Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lightspeedworld Posts: 7,940	Check the newbie dictionary for "prechecked cross sell" __________________ Abra-cadabra! Last edited by SteveLightspeed; 07-31-2005 at 04:10 PM..

07-31-2005, 04:27 PM	#10
Paparazzi Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,488	check sic cash __________________ Pure Level(3) Premium Bandwidth When Quality Counts

07-31-2005, 04:47 PM	#13
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	I'm paying $18 per cross sale for 12pornosites 50% will leave it checked hit me up for more info

07-31-2005, 05:02 PM	#17
SteveLightspeed Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lightspeedworld Posts: 7,940	Making a full sale = getting laid Upsell = You get to use the poop chute too Getting a cross sell = she lets your friend fuck her too, now he owes you a 3some with his chick One-click crosssell = introducing her to your friend, while she's naked in your bed, before she cums Prechecked cross sell = all your friends fuck her after she passes out Double prechecked cross sell = then they pee on her too __________________ Abra-cadabra!

07-31-2005, 05:10 PM	#20
Adulter Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: EU Posts: 1,252	I think it all depends on your chargeback ratio... bigger companies have less chargebacks % therefore they can go pre-checked... just imho __________________ Last edited by Adulter; 07-31-2005 at 05:11 PM..

07-31-2005, 05:11 PM	#21
Mako Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The OC baby! Posts: 1,986	LOL Steve, wth... Roger: Best text I've seen by far. Venus: No question. __________________

07-31-2005, 05:15 PM	#22
venus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix, Az Posts: 3,112	here is the settlement http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/09/rjb1.htm note the part which could easily be applied to prechecked sales: " The settlement permanently bars the defendants from billing consumers without their express, verifiable authorization; " __________________ Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

07-31-2005, 05:43 PM	#26
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	venus, if cross sales were considered deceiving by the FTC they wouldn't be available since long time ago. The rjb case was different: "In October 2000, the FTC filed suit in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, Arizona alleging that RJB Telecom and its principals, Robert and Richard Botto, operated adult web sites that provided viewers a free "teaser" visit and allowed the option of paying by credit cards or telephone bills for membership. According to the FTC, large numbers of consumers complained that they were billed for access to the web sites without their authorization, and in many instances, had never accessed the web sites at all. "

07-31-2005, 06:58 PM	#29
Matt_WildCash Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,699	We have 2 prechecked crosses and it doesn't effect sales 1 bit from our experience 80-85% just uncheck it anyways. Plus its doesn't increase chargebacks we are at 0.20% chargeback ratio right now with 2 prechecked crosses. :-)

08-01-2005, 07:36 AM	#35
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	Wether I agree or dissagree with cross sales I have to do whatever it takes to keep up with the market and webmaster demands. its just business

08-01-2005, 09:29 AM	#39
Bugbee Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Your moms house Posts: 4,609	I BUY X SALES, I WILL PRE PAY AT $18 PER HIT ME UP ASAP!! __________________ Stephen Bugbee www.x2k.com ICQ# FUCK ICQ bugbee AT x2k dot com X2K consulting and media services - specializing in business development, technology and profitability of your new or existing products and services X2K MEDIA SUITE Need a high risk merchant account? Contact me.. Are you a donor? Have a heart and help someone in need. Go to the DMV and be sure you are a donor, it saves lives!!!!

08-01-2005, 10:00 AM	#40
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	perfectgonzo cross sells to themselves i assume the join is worth more to them like that