America won in Vietnam

the movies are american made most likely...

Is all American media censored to show lies?

The propaganda engine, since early civilizations, is one to be feared, yet respected, because of it's highly unrealized, yet very profound effects on human conscious.

I dunno what I just wrote, but it sounded good a couple of seconds earlier, so I'm sticking with it.

Didn't you see A Fish Called Wanda? Should answer your question.

not really, but during times of war propoganda rules.

what movies are you watching? platoon, full metal jacket, apocalypse now, and deer hunter are the vietnam movies that come to mind and none of those suggest america won..

All American programs always show America winning every war. Watch WWII stuff on the military channel, they make it seem like America single handedly beat Nazis. Who? What? Russians? I don't think the Russians were even involved. Of course they're going to change history and say they won in Vietnam, that's what America does.



Censored is not really the right term, although there are plenty of things you can't mention in the US media. It's a very complicated, highly effective propaganda machine, it's engineered towards painting a certain image of America and another one of everyone else. It's not just the media, the biggest problem is that they do it in schools. Read an American high school history textbook one of these days and you'll see what I mean. They paint what I like to call the story of America, a nation above all others, blessed by God, that does nothing but good in the world and wins every war it enters. They're taught that everything their government does is in the best interests of the greater good.

They tell kids that their revolutionary war involved the people rising up and fighting for their own interests, they don't mention that it was orchestrated by slave owning elites for their own benefit, who would become the ruling class and form the two party system, which has essentially kept the super rich unchallenged and in total control of the rest of the population for over two hundred years.

They tell them that their civil war was fought because one day people woke up and decided to end slavery. They don't explain that it was actually a complicated power struggle between north eastern and southern elites, and that slavery was only used as an issue because the bankers in the north didn't need slaves anymore.

They tell them that the Mexican war was started by Mexicans, when in fact it was an offensive invasion. "We take nothing by force, thank God". (Said famously right before they invaded Mexico and took more than half of their land, which they occupy to this day.)

They tell them that Pearl Harbor was a surprise and unprovoked, they don't mention the sanctions the US put against Japan that would have essentially put an end to their empire. They also call WWI a people's war, there's no mention of the fact that people who simply dissented against the draft in speeches or writings were given decade long prison sentences.

They don't teach about America's empire and wars of conquest, or any of the horrible things they've done over the years in places like South America or South East Asia. The vast majority of Americans can't name half of America's colonies, the real stupid ones even think that America isn't an empire at all. Most Americans never end up getting a real education, which is why you get a population ignorant enough to believe every lie their leaders tell them. This is why they're able to invade and occupy countries with the population at home thinking that they're doing "humanitarian work" or "ridding the world of evil" or whatever nonsense they're feeding the sheep this week. This is also why some Americans have a hard time understanding why the rest of the world does not like them.

America has been at war constantly since it's inception. Perpetual war is the health of the state. There's no such thing as times of war or peace times in America.

Yep, don't you know? Russian's just helped the US army with some countenance and food/weapon to put a Red(!??) Flag over Reichstag.

Oh so I guess Russia beat the Japs too in WWII? America didn't do shit? Gee aren't you thankful.

Oh, yes... America did alot to beat the "Japs"... The only country that was stupid enough to drop 2 (TWO) nukes on civilian cities. Such a nice idea! I think that Japan is very grateful for that.

Wait a second, Rich. Are you trying to tell me that people who obtain positions of power in Goverment are often times corrupt? You mean to tell me that these sorts of people take advantage of the situation to the benefit of their friends and families? This must be soley an American phenomenon though, right? Such abuses don't take place anywhere like Canada, France or well anywhere but in The United States, right? Surely if such things happened elsewhere you'd be here to report on it for us!

As far as revisionist history, well it's pretty much SOP everywhere, now isn't it? What do French text books teach about WWII and the valiant effort the mighty French put up staving off the German war machine? Christ, they still celebrate the French liberation of Paris.

Tool.

War was never declared.... It was a police action.. and we weren't allowed to win..
We had soooo many opportunities to end the whole thing, but they weren't options in the eyes of the then administration...

Kennedy was getting ready to send in the really big guns and put an end to it, then poof.. he's dead... Imagine that...

Johnson, friends, and family... and wife's family had way too much bidness goin on and makin lots & lots of money.. no way it was gonna end..

It became a way of life with scores being kept on the news.. This many Americans died today... that many North Vietnamese died today...

Then after Nixon gets in, he sends Kissinger over and voila'.. We just quit fighting and come home.. 10 years worth of lives lost for nothing...

Kinda like what's happenin' now...

What are you talking about?
They just had elections (in Iraq).The US has just installed a democracy in Iraq. Don't you watch the news?

This is completely different than Vietnam, just like my good friend 12clicks predicted. God bless his soul.

Now the US coffins have replaced the Russian ones in Afghanistan. I keep silence even about Iraq... Do you have ANY clue why the US army came to Iraq??? Why it raised there such a big wave of terrorism (FYI: there was no Al Quaeda or other shit in Iraq before the US invasion, because Saddam was hating Osama and keept the country clean of terrorism)? Whey the US soldiers die there?

Well the Japs haven't caused any problems since then have they? I suspect the rest of Asia was probably rather grateful for the US doing that.

It's easy to sit back and criticize now, but keep in mind those idiots were the ones that coined the phrase 'kamikaze'. They couldn't be defeated by any rational means of attrition since they were not only willing to die but found some kind of twisted honor in doing so.

BTW, there were far more civilian casulties from single bombing runs in the European theatre in WWII than Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The only reason you don't hear people bitching about it is because it was from conventional weapons.

AmateurFlix, be sure. I heard alot about "brave" US and UK pilots what burned and ruined Dresden and lots of other cities (mostly civilian ones) in Germany... But those people were killed just once. However the Japan ones are dieing even today due to radiation sickness and genetic mutations.

Please think twice before you say something.

You don't honestly believe that, do you?

its something the US wants you to believe

No shit. What movies are you watching Relish XXX?

I think he's talking about documentary style military films like you'd see on the history channel, not Hollywood movies.

As is SOP for you there is so much misinformation in your post that it equals pig shit...eh Richy boy.

More pig shit from Richy boy.

Don't you watch Foxnews? It says right on thier website: "Fair and Balanced news"

Do you really think the US gov. would let them (Foxnews) lie to the general public like that on TV?

12clicks is always right.

I stand by my assertion. That country started a war completely unprovoked and they will pay the consequences of it for a very long time. I'd shake the hand of the man who dropped the bomb and I'd have no problem doing it myself in that situation.

Please keep in mind these people were of such a mentality that they did not stop after having this done to them ONCE, it needed to be REPEATED AGAIN at a second city to get the message through. They didn't care much about their own people except as a fighting resource and their culture, at least at that time, didn't place much value on human life, at least not on par with most other civilizations in the world. Nothing wrong at all with that decision.

As for the ones who are having problems today; they really ought to consider moving to an area that wasn't bombed IMHO.

...duplicate post removed

US military forces did win every battle fought in Vietnam...but micro management by politicians prolonged the war (by not allowing a military defeat of the NVA via an invasion of the North)...and virtual anarchy by the US populous demanding a withdrawal of US forces...brought a unsatisfactory end to the conflict.

That's true, what was I thinking.

I see you got an A in high school history. The US did nothing to hurt Japan before Pearl Harbor, it was a complete unprovoked attacked. Those bastards.

you win some, you loose some

vietnam was a loose

Care to elaborate?

Just FYI: Genetic sicknesses are transfered from parents to children. This doesn't matter how long away from Hiroshima these kids are living today if their parents (grand parents) were in the zone of radiation. The guy whos hand you'd like to shake has sentenced them to a terrible and painful death

"""They tell kids that their revolutionary war involved the people rising up and fighting for their own interests, they don't mention that it was orchestrated by slave owning elites for their own benefit,"""

Luckily, Americans DID have a genuine, true blue, world class hero who forced the government to give real rights and equality to the common people.

Sadly, since he makes the founding fathers look like a bunch of scoundrels, he will never be given the hero status in America that he deserves.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/enc..._Rebellion.htm

Well I don't want to sound unsympathetic to a generation not even involved in the conflict, it is of course unfortunate for them that they might end up paying for the mistakes of their ancestors. Or the 'mistakes of the US' as you see it.

My point was that given the circumstances at the time I really see nothing wrong with what was done. People didn't know about the long term effects of radiation. They did know that alot of Americans were dying at the hands of the Japanese at the time. Many were being tortured. The US was involved in a battle that could probably never be totally won through conventional means by either side because of the mentality of the Japanese. The A-bomb saved a lot of American lives; if the option to simply retreat had existed that would have been preferable but the Japanese would have simply regrouped and attacked again. Hell the enemy was even doing shit as stupid as attaching bombs to large balloons and hoping they'd drop "somewhere" over the western US - so you can't really say the Japanese were all that concerned about avoiding civilian targets in the US either. They had already demonstrated that they didn't care about civilian casualties by doing that.

Given the choices of having them come to the US and bomb indiscrimenantly or end it on their turf quickly, I'm glad the latter was the result.

Japan was taking control of the resources of SE Asia, America didn't like that, so they put massive sanctions on Japan that would have essentially put an end to their empire. They had no option but to strike back, and the US knew that would be the result of the sanctions. The nonsense about Pearl Harbour being an unexpected, unprovoked attack is oversimplified high school textbook garbage.

Oh Hell NO! Viet Power Niggas!!

That I was aware of but my understanding of this was that Japan was already at war with these other countries throughout Asia that they were trying to build into this 'empire'. Surely you don't blame the US for not wanting to help Japan to do this? The US may have expected some type of hostile response but to say it was actively provoked or justified is another thing entirely.

That is entirely UNTRUE. Japan was going to surrender after the first A-bomb bomb. We dropped the second A-bomb to prove to Russia that we had more than one A-bomb.

Absolutely correct! It was really just a "show" for Russians. Just to show who is the biggest boy there.

The US told Japan to cease and desist in their invasion of China and threatened a Naval blockade if Japan did not comply. Japan is an island that cannot even feed its people and has virtually no natural resources thus it had a major decision to make...comply or fight. Unfortunately they made the wrong decision. BTW they did not ever expect to win a war with the US...but did expect to buy themselves enough time to consolidate their expansion into Asia and then sue for a peace with the US.

I doubt this very much. If all they wanted to do was demonstrate that they had a second bomb or put on a "show" it would have made more sense to set it off in a remote isolated area that would have still gathered some attention rather than antagonizing an enemy who had, according to orcastudios, already shown a willingness to surrender to a war that the US was eager to end.

BINGO!

...an Ia Drang survivor

I like that part

and Rambo....(classic vietnam filmed based on the true story of John Jay Rambo)

That one is Hilarious

As you read your daily newspapers, watch your evening newscast, and listen to your radio program....BE CRITICAL IN YOUR THINKING.

Know that all broadcasters, newsgroups, and governments have hidden motives. I have seen the spinmeisters give up to three versions of the same story on the same day.

An example:

A student riot at the University of Bangkok, police bust some heads, rioters go home.

US Spin:
There was an uprising of communist lead students at the University of Bangkok today urging the overthrow of the King. The King, the leader of Thailand, reluctantly requested that the military assist the police in quelling the riot in an effort to maintain law and order. During the riot, police and soldiers, loyal to the King had to used minimal force to dispurse the unruly crowd. Soon, order was restored and the city is calm.

Communist spin:
Today, the people and students of the University of Bangkok tried to speak out against the abuses of human rights that they suffer under the corrupt administration of the King. During their peaceful march, the students and people were brutally attacked by the fascist police. Many were injured and hospitalized as a result of the savage attack. The students vowed to again march for their rights in the near future.

Rather than believe the spin, think about what really happened.

I think the best thing is for all you "non-Americans" to keep your tight asses on the other side of "the wall."
Occasionally, we will throw things over "The wall."
(Food, gifts, bombs....)
It's up to you to know which is which.
If you bring gifts to the gate, we will throw less bombs.

Either way, we really don't care.
If you piss us off, guess what? That's right, more bombs.
But under no circumstances do you get to come to my side of "the Wall."
You are welcome to try anytime you like, but......(That's right...Bombs)

How about that for a foreign policy?