Fuck Congress - I think I'm going to go out and burn a flag tonight

[Snake Doctor]

House approves constitutional amendment to ban flag burning.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...o/flag_burning

I love my country 1000%, but if you believe in freedom then the symbol of your freedom can't just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of your citizens burning that flag in protest.

When you understand that you can talk to me about the "land of the free"

I really hope the average American wakes up and smells the coffee in 2006 and sends these right wing fuckers packing.

[Rob]

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

[Tempest]

So much for freedom of speach and expression... Idolatry is IN!!!! Makes sense when you consider which group seems to be running the country these days.

[theking]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

I have the same feeling.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Tempest

So much for freedom of speach and expression... Idolatry is IN!!!! Makes sense when you consider which group seems to be running the country these days.

No offense but aren't you Canadian? If so, what are you doing in this conversation? Your opinion on U.S. policy is like a turd wearing a tuxedo. It might be cute and funny but after all is said and done, it's still just a well dressed piece of shit.

[Spunky]

I think I'll go raise my Canadian flag

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

No offense but aren't you Canadian? If so, what are you doing in this conversation? Your opinion on U.S. policy is like a turd wearing a tuxedo. It might be cute and funny but after all is said and done, it's still just a well dressed piece of shit.

That's funny...

[theking]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

No offense but aren't you Canadian? If so, what are you doing in this conversation? Your opinion on U.S. policy is like a turd wearing a tuxedo. It might be cute and funny but after all is said and done, it's still just a well dressed piece of shit.

Now that is funny...no one can deny that is funny.

[chase]

Not something I would do personally, but I support your right to express yourself.

[Alex]

You aren't thinking straight.


Yes, i value my freedom of speech but there are some things that i would never do to prove that i have it.

One would be to have anything negative to say about the men and women in uniforms that protect my right to say something negative about them, which i will not do.

And the second is disgrace the American Flag which represents the country that gives me the freedom to do so.

You are just as much as an assailant as this guy
http://www.filecabi.net/v/file/MichaelCrook/wmv

[bhutocracy]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.:

what a hero. Obviously very insecure about what it represents.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

Say hi to Hilter. You are a Nazi.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

No offense but aren't you Canadian? If so, what are you doing in this conversation? Your opinion on U.S. policy is like a turd wearing a tuxedo. It might be cute and funny but after all is said and done, it's still just a well dressed piece of shit.

OWNED

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

They didn't die defending a flag, they died defending freedom.....the very freedom that allows me to burn the flag, or call the president an asshole, to vigorously protest my government's actions.

Until you're willing to accept that, you don't really know what freedom is.

[theking]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Say hi to Hilter. You are a Nazi.

I seriously doubt that he is a member of the Nazi party...but he is a definitely a partiot...unlike pseudo patriots.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

They didn't die defending a flag, they died defending freedom.....the very freedom that allows me to burn the flag, or call the president an asshole, to vigorously protest my government's actions.

Until you're willing to accept that, you don't really know what freedom is.

Actually if these anti-flag burning freaks would actually READ the induction oath to the armed sevices they'd might learn something. Show me where the FLAG is mentioned.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by theking

I seriously doubt that he is a member of the Nazi party...but he is a definitely a partiot...unlike pseudo patriots.

Saying you're going to kick the shit out of someone who burns a flag makes you a patriot?

[Webby]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

Appreciate your comments about those who served in wars under whatever flags - I doubt anyone who burns a flag has any intention of showing disrespect to these people. However, the reasons for "flag burning" on occasion would probably make those who died turn in their graves and these same people would be burning that flag as well, in protest.

I can't think of one flag of any nation that is something to be proud about - all nations have done some pretty nasty stuff over time. Flags are something allied to that disease - patriotism. The next step is having everyone raise their right hand as a salute to a "leader" each morning and sing some "approved" songs :-) (Usually with a few mentions of God and some adoration of the "leader" and how wonderful the nation is)

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by theking

I seriously doubt that he is a member of the Nazi party...but he is a definitely a partiot...unlike pseudo patriots.

If by "patriot" you mean "fascist" then yes he is. Nazis were fascists.

Blindly following whatever the government tells you to do is NOT being Patriotic it's being retarded.

[strats]

The gevernement, the media faggots, all the rest of those little faggots can suck a fat cock. If I saw http://www.filecabi.net/v/file/MichaelCrook/wmv that media bitch in real life, he would not have a pleasent day..

[DWB]

Originally Posted by HighOnAcid

I feel that its sacred because of all the brave men and women that lost their lives protecting it. It's a symbol of our country and if you burn it or desecrate it in any way it directly reflects your view of the country that you support 1000% (is that even possible?).

If someone were to burn a flag in front of me I would personally whip the living fuck out of them and then use their tattered body to smother the flames. Once the flames were extinguished I would take a shit on their face as I piss on their chest.

That's just my feelings on this subject.

Sadly, the only symbol of the United States that means anything anymore is money.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Actually if these anti-flag burning freaks would actually READ the induction oath to the armed sevices they'd might learn something. Show me where the FLAG is mentioned.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That's the oath people take when joining the military....not really an issue here since we're talking about the rights of the average American citizen.

Here's the oath one takes to become a citizen.
The Oath of Citizenship

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.

Again nowhere is a flag mentioned. As good citizens our responsibility is to support and defend the CONSTITUTION against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC (read Congress and this President)

It's not only my right as a citizen, it's my duty as a citizen to excercise and defend my constitutional freedoms from those who would try to take them away. Whether it be flag burning laws, the PATRIOT ACT, or any other attempt to legislate away my rights.

[TheJimmy]

I proudly served my country for 12 years...and I have mixed feelings on this topic...

:/

.

[GoodGuy]

i don't understand, what is the purpose of making this contitutional?

what is the sense? what is behind this? do they think someone or people will burn many US Flags in the next few years?

Strange...

[Webby]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Blindly following whatever the government tells you to do is NOT being Patriotic it's being retarded.

Agree Gator!

Govt's are elected to build damned roads, do trade deals, manage the economy, construct some hospitals and come up with a sensible healthcare system blah - nothing else.

They are useless when they step beyond their function, and screw everything up in the process :-)

We ain't exactly talking about the cream of industry or original thought when ya look at the members of a government - they are just good at talking and bullshitting - at least, usually :-)

[theking]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Actually if these anti-flag burning freaks would actually READ the induction oath to the armed sevices they'd might learn something. Show me where the FLAG is mentioned.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

It is immaterial that the flag is not mentioned in the oath...that flag represents the constitution which in turns represents this nation.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

i don't understand, what is the purpose of making this contitutional?

what is the sense? what is behind this? do they think someone or people will burn many US Flags in the next few years?

Strange...

It's one of those things that serves no real practical purpose but gives the politicians something to brag about when it comes time for re-election.
Like "family values" and all of that other shit that lawmakers really have no control over.

It gets them votes from knee-jerk reactionaries who think they're being patriotic

[devilspost]

[strats]

Originally Posted by Alex

http://www.filecabi.net/v/file/MichaelCrook/wmv

'
I have to wonder what kind of c unts set this guy up for the news station. Actually, no I don't have to wonder because it's clear as day.
'
'
'
'

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by theking

It is immaterial that the flag is not mentioned in the oath...that flag represents the constitution which in turns represents this nation.

That's a pretty weak argument. Style over substance.

[AmateurFlix]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me..."

So what are they supposed to do when someone who outranks them is an enemy of the constitution? This statement is contradictory.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

That's a pretty weak argument. Style over substance.

Originally Posted by theking

I was born under the flag...I have spent a lifetime enjoying the privileges that the flag represents...I served under that flag for 12 years of my life. I engaged in combat operations under the flag multiple times...and have payed a heavy price for doing so. I was willing to kill or die under the flag and I still am...so if I had to go to prison for defending the flag...it would be far less than I have already done and sacrificed for the flag.

Posted in another thread about this same subject.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by theking

Posted in another thread about this same subject.

Well thanks for fighting for my right to burn a flag

[chadglni]

I can't believe the hypocrites that are coming out of the closet on GFY today. Very sad, very sad.

[sextoyking]

[QUOTE=Lenny2]They didn't die defending a flag, they died defending freedom.....the very freedom that allows me to burn the flag, or call the president an asshole, to vigorously protest my government's actions.

QUOTE]


Well said.

I love my country very much most of time, I served my country for 3 yrs in the army - I belive any person in this country has the right to civil protest including burning of the flag.

While we might not agree that burning the flag is a good thing, It shouldn't be illegal.

"I find it un democratic and not patriotic to NOT protest against your own goverment in one form or another" Whether it be via the ballot box or in a picket / protest line."

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally Posted by theking

that flag represents the constitution which in turns represents this nation.

Why aren't they making it illegal to burn the Constitution instead of the flag?

Because right wingers are the first ones to "burn" the Constitution.

[TheJimmy]

free speach is free speach... how is burning a flag in protest not falling into that definition...

. ?


PS: Isn't dissent one of the highest forms of patriotism?


.

[sextoyking]

In this highly patriotic time, neither party has the courage or political will to vote this down.

Under Clinton, np but these are different times..

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by sextoyking

In this highly patriotic time, neither party has the courage or political will to vote this down.

Under Clinton, np but these are different times..

It's not like it will all happen tomorrow.

They need to get 2/3 of the senate to vote for it, which it seems they don't have.
Then it will have to be ratified by 3/4 of all state legislatures. (That's 38 states for those of you keeping score)

It's a process that will take quite some time and the political climate will probably change more than once during that time period.

[Snake Doctor]

My congressman voted for this. I need to check out my city ordinances and see what kind of trouble I can get into for burning a flag in front of his district office here.

Burning the flag in and of itself won't cause me problems, but I'll probably be breaking some other law by starting the fire.

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by TheJimmy

free speach is free speach... how is burning a flag in protest not falling into that definition...

. ?


PS: Isn't dissent one of the highest forms of patriotism?


.

Hey dude, hop on ICQ if you can before my internet pisses out again.

[Rich]

It's amazing that people will say that they live in a free country in the same breath that they'll say that burning the flag should be illegal. Public education is what they should consider outlawing.

[High Plains Drifter]

Flag burning is a legitimate way of protesting a government, any government, and the action has no victims. It is in no way, shape, or form, protesting that government's military soldiers.

[sextoyking]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

It's not like it will all happen tomorrow.

They need to get 2/3 of the senate to vote for it, which it seems they don't have.
Then it will have to be ratified by 3/4 of all state legislatures. (That's 38 states for those of you keeping score)

It's a process that will take quite some time and the political climate will probably change more than once during that time period.

Yep Lenny, I don't know if 3/4 of the states will ratify it. It will be close though, that is forsure. 2/3 of the Senate. Well I know some in my party will vote for it. The repubs will need a few dems..

[sextoyking]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's amazing that people will say that they live in a free country in the same breath that they'll say that burning the flag should be illegal. Public education is what they should consider outlawing.

Wow, I agree with you that's a first!!

[BrutalMaster]

This flag burning debate is truly astonishing. I mean, right at this moment it is illegal to burn a flag that does not belong to you. It is illegal to go onto someone's property and burn a flag. It is probably illegal to burn one on public property. So, the entire debate is about whether it should be illegal to burn a piece of cloth that you own. It's remarkable that congress would take even a moment to worry about that, especially since we are at war.

Is the American flag a symbol of freedom? Sure it is. It's also probably the most exploited icon anywhere. So, assuming this ridiculous idea becomes part of the highest law in the land, are we to assume that the flag can no longer be used on the wrappers of, let's say, fire crackers? I mean, they burn, albeit very fast. Of course, you could not use a flag in a newspaper ad and the use that newspaper to start your coals on the fourth of July. Supermarkets use the flag on their grocery bags, meaning it would be illegal to throw out the bag because most of that kind of trash is incinerated.

Flags are pieces of cloth that are turned into symbols by sheer happenstance. Those threads could have become a pair of jeans or a bed sheet. Are they symbolic? Of course they are. Does that mean they should not be used to symbolically protest? I would suggest if you truly believe in freedom, as anyone on this board clearly should, then you should also believe in someone's freedom to express themselves even in ways you would find unpleasant.

As the man said, I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight to the death for your right to express it.

And incidentally, I am a veteran of the US Armed Forces.

Brutal

[Mako]

I could never do it myself, it would be like burning my own arm, but I support the right for others who don't comprehend the magnitude of the act (i.e., never served this country in wartime, hi Lenny) to do so.

It's wrong, no doubt about it, not because of the false idoltry, or anything else having to do with the flag itself, but simply because entire families have lost loved ones in the armed forces over the years who DID value it specifically, and cherish it.

If they value it, and made that sacrifice with their lives, then it's good enough for me, AND you Lenny.

Respect the flag people, it's not a cloth symbol to those who died for it...or their sons/daughters whom they left behind.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's amazing that people will say that they live in a free country in the same breath that they'll say that burning the flag should be illegal. Public education is what they should consider outlawing.

Words of wisdom *cough* from...that famous owner of three of the largest *cough* casinos on the net...you know the one that has three degrees *cough*...is a multi millionaire *cough*...and theatens to break peoples arms into a million pieces by using his great martial arts skill *cough cough*.

Ahh...the entertainment would not be quiet the same on GFY...without the likes of the...Richy boys...on this board.

[sextoyking]

Colin Powell, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has strongly opposed the proposed amendment. "The First Amendment exists to insure that freedom of speech and expression applies not just to that with which we agree or disagree, but also that which we find outrageous," he said. "I would not amend that great shield of democracy to hammer a few miscreants. The flag will be flying proudly long after they have slunk away."

[woj]

50........