Possibly disturbing discussion for designers and their clients:opinions on drafts - GoFuckYourself.com

angel_x3ws · 06-21-2005, 12:52 PM

What do you think of clients asking for drafts? Do you think it's a waste of effort or you think it's valid? I mean that's the purpose of portfolios right.. if they like our work then hire us.. just as simple as that.. what do you u guys think?

eroswebmaster · 06-21-2005, 12:53 PM

very disturbing.

But seriously. If a client asks for a draft and you're getting paid for it *make sure to include that in your rate* no problemo.

StuBradley · 06-21-2005, 12:54 PM

They might be looking for something to 'shop around' with. Can't imagine anyone doing one unless it was a huge job with a big client.

LittleSassy · 06-21-2005, 01:02 PM

yeah...

what if you dont get paid for it?

After Shock Media · 06-21-2005, 01:06 PM

hmm kind of interesting. I do know it is done often in the advertising world and people do risk having their proposal being shot down and another company chosen.
Not sure how that would work in adult. Since so few people follow any sort of mainstream stuff.

angel_x3ws · 06-21-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuBradley

They might be looking for something to 'shop around' with. Can't imagine anyone doing one unless it was a huge job with a big client.

I know.. and I understand their POV but its a bummer once you've done a draft..and a pretty nice draft i assure you and then the client bails out on you... they should stop asking for dratfs... they should look at the portfolio.. assess the designer based on their portfolio and if the work is good then hire them... not request for drafts first and we'll see from there..even if they have seen your portfolio and liked it..WTF is that?

LittleSassy · 06-21-2005, 01:09 PM

i know....it sucks...

angel_x3ws · 06-21-2005, 01:24 PM

other designers out there and clients tell us what you think about it?

angel_x3ws · 06-21-2005, 02:36 PM

one last bump for this thread!!

S P A N N O W · 06-21-2005, 02:42 PM

Back in the day a client might ask me for a draft. That's fine with me. I'd give them a flat graphic representation of the web site as it would appear. No html, no javascript, nothing functional at all but a picture which I retain control of. If they paid me that's fine too - they just bought themselves a .JPG....

chronic avenger · 06-21-2005, 02:43 PM

If your a new designer and dont have work to show you can handle that kind of request. then maybe do a "draft"

But I feel Ive been doing this long enough, that my work speaks for it's self.
SO... no drafts.

Doc911 · 06-21-2005, 02:51 PM

If your getting paid by the hour then give them a draft. otherwise get paid up front and let them see how its going if your taking to long.

angel_x3ws · 06-21-2005, 03:44 PM

thanks to all those who replied..please continue giving and sharing your opinions..i'm gonna be back in a couple of hours...please give this thread a bump

DWB · 06-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Now... I have to see a draft for MAJOR designs (sites, headers, print work) and I must get the PSD files along with any fonts used on the projects. It's like that. I don't compromise on this.

For banners and galleries, no draft needed but I do like up to 1 change on them if they are not up to par with what I want.

Reason... so many of you have incredible portfolios but part of me thinks its from a designer long gone because of the garbage a few of you have tried to sell me in the past. I have been VERY disappointed with great companies with kick ass portfolios.

DWB · 06-21-2005, 03:58 PM

I will add that I also pay 1/2 to start and 1/2 when it's complete. I will never pay up front again after being burned so many times in the past.

jonesy · 06-21-2005, 07:25 PM

fuck em if they want a draft

either your portfolio sells them or it doesnt

but tell them that the design does come with revisons of course (which are caculated into the cost).

$tandaman · 06-21-2005, 08:54 PM

It all depends on how busy you are ATM, and how good the compensation is for the draft, or the opportunity ahead.

If you are required to do a draft on a 100,000 project, and it will only cost you $500 in time, would you do it?
how about if it's a $10,000 project? 5K? 2K? 1K? get my point?

In the past we have offered drafts for large projects, or if we really wanted to get client's business, but unfortunately we can no longer afford to do that, we simply don't have the time for it. Our paying clients keep us very busy, so we would not want to alter the value they are getting for their money (by offering a no cost draft to some).

Each case is different though, that's my 2c..

angel_x3ws · 06-22-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesy

fuck em if they want a draft

either your portfolio sells them or it doesnt

but tell them that the design does come with revisons of course (which are caculated into the cost).

well said... we also don't mind doing drafts but sometimes clients are so inconsiderate.. anyway, thanks for all your opinions..it's a big help for me..

MikeB · 06-22-2005, 09:11 AM

For me it depends on the project. On some projects I'll have a very clear idea of what we want done graphically. On others I may be looking for some new ideas and will ask for a couple of proofs/drafts of ideas the designer(s) came up with.

Having good designers, I often want to see what they can come up with on their own.

angel_x3ws · 06-22-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB_CE

For me it depends on the project. On some projects I'll have a very clear idea of what we want done graphically. On others I may be looking for some new ideas and will ask for a couple of proofs/drafts of ideas the designer(s) came up with.

Having good designers, I often want to see what they can come up with on their own.

yeah.. i hear your point.. but you see the problem with this is there's a possibility of the designs being copied.. and it's not fair for those who came up with original ideas only to be stolen in the end and then you don't even get the work.. that sucks you know!!

MikeB · 06-22-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_x3ws

yeah.. i hear your point.. but you see the problem with this is there's a possibility of the designs being copied.. and it's not fair for those who came up with original ideas only to be stolen in the end and then you don't even get the work.. that sucks you know!!

Usually what happens is that if something is way off from what we had hoped for, we just have them make changes so that it gets to a point we can use it. Very rarely have we ever had to scrap an idea 100%. But that does bring up a good point, in theory you could be paying for a designer to develop an idea that in turn will never get used on your site, but they could use somewhere else. We've never had that problem.

Mike B

xint · 06-22-2005, 09:31 AM

I've had clients ask for drafts and they just take'em. Never hear from them again, never see one sent for my work, they actually take the shitty sketch or wot ever template they ask for... at that point I stoped doing that. They want a draft, I just a show portfolio... that's it.
If they want more, make sure to add that to the big fucking bill.
(come waste my time, it'll cost ya!)

Fletch XXX · 06-22-2005, 09:34 AM

i have always showed my clients the work in progress.

basschick · 06-22-2005, 09:37 AM

i can see both sides here. i have bought designs from designers with great portfolios, only to be VERY disappointed with what i got. and we're not talking something small that can be fixed here - we're talking the entire pages were not usable, not what we discussed, and i didn't want any part of them. i have paid for several designs i would never use, and a couple more i used but felt bad about.

i've used a fair amount of designers, and if i'm picky, i'm far from impossible to please.

maybe designers could charge a low rate to do the draft? or why not just sell the design to another client if the first client didn't want it?

xint · 06-22-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xint

...they actually take the shitty sketch...

Well 'shitty' cuz it's a sketch, it's not the whole work, it's only a sketch... hahaha, OK, I'll shutup

Mrs. Lenny2 · 06-22-2005, 09:43 AM

I can only speak in terms of mainstream but, when I worked for an ad agency and we were the agency of record for a client, we would always provide 3 drafts (concepts) for them to choose from. If we were pitching a new client, we would provide multiple drafts with copyright statements on all of them.

angel_x3ws · 06-22-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basschick

maybe designers could charge a low rate to do the draft? or why not just sell the design to another client if the first client didn't want it?

yeah..that's what we're doin right now.. adding some few touch ups to those drafts so we could sell them as templates..

06-21-2005, 12:52 PM	#1
angel_x3ws Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 649	Possibly disturbing discussion for designers and their clients:opinions on drafts What do you think of clients asking for drafts? Do you think it's a waste of effort or you think it's valid? I mean that's the purpose of portfolios right.. if they like our work then hire us.. just as simple as that.. what do you u guys think? __________________ ICQ# 311386283 www.graphicstars.com

06-21-2005, 12:53 PM	#2
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	very disturbing. But seriously. If a client asks for a draft and you're getting paid for it make sure to include that in your rate no problemo. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

06-21-2005, 12:54 PM	#3
StuBradley Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,625	They might be looking for something to 'shop around' with. Can't imagine anyone doing one unless it was a huge job with a big client. __________________ 51-566-514

06-21-2005, 01:02 PM	#4
LittleSassy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: behind you Posts: 7,402	yeah... what if you dont get paid for it? __________________ Proadultoutsourcing.com ~ version 2.0 OFFSHORE SOLUTIONS PROVIDER SINCE 2003 ACCOUNT EXECUTIVE 264-580-554

06-21-2005, 01:06 PM	#5
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	hmm kind of interesting. I do know it is done often in the advertising world and people do risk having their proposal being shot down and another company chosen. Not sure how that would work in adult. Since so few people follow any sort of mainstream stuff. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

06-21-2005, 01:09 PM	#7
LittleSassy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: behind you Posts: 7,402	i know....it sucks... __________________ Proadultoutsourcing.com ~ version 2.0 OFFSHORE SOLUTIONS PROVIDER SINCE 2003 ACCOUNT EXECUTIVE 264-580-554

06-21-2005, 01:24 PM	#8
angel_x3ws Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 649	other designers out there and clients tell us what you think about it? __________________ ICQ# 311386283 www.graphicstars.com

06-21-2005, 02:36 PM	#9
angel_x3ws Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 649	one last bump for this thread!! __________________ ICQ# 311386283 www.graphicstars.com

06-21-2005, 02:42 PM	#10
S P A N N O W Everywhere You Wanna Be! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NorCal Posts: 11,941	Back in the day a client might ask me for a draft. That's fine with me. I'd give them a flat graphic representation of the web site as it would appear. No html, no javascript, nothing functional at all but a picture which I retain control of. If they paid me that's fine too - they just bought themselves a .JPG.... __________________ Ambush

06-21-2005, 02:43 PM	#11
chronic avenger Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: C.A. All Day Posts: 2,509	If your a new designer and dont have work to show you can handle that kind of request. then maybe do a "draft" But I feel Ive been doing this long enough, that my work speaks for it's self. SO... no drafts. __________________ \| Sexxy Toons \| Blog Designs \| Icq 333676510

06-21-2005, 02:51 PM	#12
Doc911 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: If i was up your ass you'd know Posts: 3,695	If your getting paid by the hour then give them a draft. otherwise get paid up front and let them see how its going if your taking to long. __________________ For PHP/MySQL scripts ICQ 161480555 or email [email protected]

06-21-2005, 03:44 PM	#13
angel_x3ws Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 649	thanks to all those who replied..please continue giving and sharing your opinions..i'm gonna be back in a couple of hours...please give this thread a bump __________________ ICQ# 311386283 www.graphicstars.com

06-21-2005, 03:57 PM	#14
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	Now... I have to see a draft for MAJOR designs (sites, headers, print work) and I must get the PSD files along with any fonts used on the projects. It's like that. I don't compromise on this. For banners and galleries, no draft needed but I do like up to 1 change on them if they are not up to par with what I want. Reason... so many of you have incredible portfolios but part of me thinks its from a designer long gone because of the garbage a few of you have tried to sell me in the past. I have been VERY disappointed with great companies with kick ass portfolios.

06-21-2005, 03:58 PM	#15
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	I will add that I also pay 1/2 to start and 1/2 when it's complete. I will never pay up front again after being burned so many times in the past.

06-21-2005, 07:25 PM	#16
jonesy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,688	fuck em if they want a draft either your portfolio sells them or it doesnt but tell them that the design does come with revisons of course (which are caculated into the cost). __________________ . Shooting Bikini Girls Last edited by jonesy; 06-21-2005 at 07:27 PM..

06-21-2005, 08:54 PM	#17
$tandaman Pimping 8EZ Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,530	It all depends on how busy you are ATM, and how good the compensation is for the draft, or the opportunity ahead. If you are required to do a draft on a 100,000 project, and it will only cost you $500 in time, would you do it? how about if it's a $10,000 project? 5K? 2K? 1K? get my point? In the past we have offered drafts for large projects, or if we really wanted to get client's business, but unfortunately we can no longer afford to do that, we simply don't have the time for it. Our paying clients keep us very busy, so we would not want to alter the value they are getting for their money (by offering a no cost draft to some). Each case is different though, that's my 2c.. __________________ CentroProfits.com - Make money with 3000+ Models! ModelCentro.com - Multiple award winning hosted CMS designed to run solo model sites, with affiliate program built in. Launch your model site in 24 hrs or less! FanCentro.com - Premium social network for SWs & Fans!

06-22-2005, 09:11 AM	#19
MikeB Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,012	For me it depends on the project. On some projects I'll have a very clear idea of what we want done graphically. On others I may be looking for some new ideas and will ask for a couple of proofs/drafts of ideas the designer(s) came up with. Having good designers, I often want to see what they can come up with on their own.

06-22-2005, 09:31 AM	#22
xint Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Your mom's house. Posts: 32	I've had clients ask for drafts and they just take'em. Never hear from them again, never see one sent for my work, they actually take the shitty sketch or wot ever template they ask for... at that point I stoped doing that. They want a draft, I just a show portfolio... that's it. If they want more, make sure to add that to the big fucking bill. (come waste my time, it'll cost ya!) __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

06-22-2005, 09:34 AM	#23
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	i have always showed my clients the work in progress. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

06-22-2005, 09:37 AM	#24
basschick Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: el lay, ca usa Posts: 2,540	i can see both sides here. i have bought designs from designers with great portfolios, only to be VERY disappointed with what i got. and we're not talking something small that can be fixed here - we're talking the entire pages were not usable, not what we discussed, and i didn't want any part of them. i have paid for several designs i would never use, and a couple more i used but felt bad about. i've used a fair amount of designers, and if i'm picky, i'm far from impossible to please. maybe designers could charge a low rate to do the draft? or why not just sell the design to another client if the first client didn't want it? __________________ Got Gay and For Women Traffic?

06-22-2005, 09:43 AM	#26
Mrs. Lenny2 Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,175	I can only speak in terms of mainstream but, when I worked for an ad agency and we were the agency of record for a client, we would always provide 3 drafts (concepts) for them to choose from. If we were pitching a new client, we would provide multiple drafts with copyright statements on all of them. __________________ [B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]ICQ# 193-939-788