Call me stupid, but what's the gain from the war in Iraq?

[AkiraSS]

Really, call me dumb, but, USA is in huge debts.

Can someone enlighten me, what's in it for USA from this war to gain? It's almost 2 years now yes? How will USA pay off it's debt to China/Japan?

[MattO]

Well the US most likely isn't gaining a thing, but a lot of companies sure are.

[Harmon]

Jeeeeeeeeezus, not another one of these threads.

[Fred Quimby]

cheap oil according to the anti-war homos

[XAKEP]

[RuthB]

Maybe GFY should start a Political Discussion Forum for all these kind of threads... there seem to be enough to fill it

[After Shock Media]

The costs are being paid somewhere.
War is always profitable.

[StuartD]

Don't think of it in terms of what the "USA" gains so much as what "Bush and friends" gains.

[NTSS]

Black Gold aka Texas Tea

[Vendot]

Originally Posted by XAKEP

Yep. Lots of big green bottles are useful containers.

Fucking iraqis. They got jack shit, but tons of big green containers.

[High Plains Drifter]

I sure hope that we pay China back in time so they don't foreclose and kick us off our property. That would be terrible.

[skillfull]

cheap oil

[davethetruth]

We get more oil from canada then from iraq, lets go invade them

[loverboy]

i don't think the US will gain any unless peace is fully reinstated
in that war torn country which is predicted to end in 2009

[loverboy]

weeks ago, there was a thread about the US planning to sell Hawaii to Japan

[loverboy]

Originally Posted by NichePay - StuartD

Don't think of it in terms of what the "USA" gains so much as what "Bush and friends" gains.

this was illustrated clearly by Michael Moore in his documentary
you'll be the verdict

[fris]

chris rock did a good explaination of it at the oscars

about the gap vs banana republic

[davethetruth]

http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa..._fotw246.shtml

[High Plains Drifter]

No way am I clicking on a link by a guy with only 1200 posts.

[davethetruth]

Originally Posted by skinnywussy

No way am I clicking on a link by a guy with only 1200 posts.

lol, ok mr. 24 posts hahaha

It's a .gov site

[loverboy]

The War in Iraq Costs ---> http://costofwar.com/

[Rich]

The war costs the taxpayers money... it makes the bankers, war profiteers, and media corporations billions. War is a cash grab for the elites, money goes from the public to the wealthy. It's also an excuse to silence decent and increase authoritarianism at home.

The strategic value of this war for the war mongers is to take control of one of the world's largest oil reserves. People who say "cheap oil" don't get it. America citizens are not going to reap the spoils of war in the form of cheap oil, in fact oil is at something like a 20 year high right now. America doesn't need the oil so much as they want to keep other countries from buying it, China most importantly. It's a valuable strategic resource that they want control of, this is why American troops will never leave Iraq unless they're forced out. The only way they'll be forced out is if the American public pulls their heads out of their asses and demands and end to the killing. The powers that be don't give two shits how many of our boys die and how much of our tax money is wasted.

Aside from the obvious rhetoric of "spreading freedom" and "fighting terrorism", which only the most naive people fall for, the public is fooled into believing that somehow they're going to benefit from the war by getting cheap gas. What a huge fucking joke that is, the public will never gain a thing from this or any other war.

That being said, until there's a revolution, America will always be at war with someone. The US can't survive in it's current state without perpetual war. That's why they have to feed everyone such nonsense in public schools, about America being the home of freedom and about how all the wars they've fought are for the greater good. From the revolutionary war being a "middle class" war to the civil war being fought over slavery, it's all nonsense to keep us idiots in line and not questioning the war machine. War is the health of the state.

Thank God we have TV to keep us in a constant state of numb distraction or we might actually start to notice how we're constantly killing poor people overseas for the profit of a few.

[taibo]

Originally Posted by AkiraSS

Really, call me dumb, but, USA is in huge debts.

Can someone enlighten me, what's in it for USA from this war to gain? It's almost 2 years now yes? How will USA pay off it's debt to China/Japan?

yea well Bush is a fucking pro-war kinda guy.. anything that bothers him outside of the USA he thinks he can solve them too. go figure

[jaYMan]

better there than here.

thats the point.

[Dalai lama]

My guess would be oil, that's why they got into Iraq in the first place.

[FilthyRob]

Originally Posted by XAKEP

[High Plains Drifter]

I agree with Rich, but jayman hits closer to what the Bush admin. is thinking. Creating a honeypot in Iraq for evil-doers to flock to has allowed the US military to knock them off by the thousands. It hasn't solved any real problems, but there are plenty of dead extremists.

[FrankWhite]

[sperbonzo]

Sorry, but anyone that doesn't realize that out of all of the substances in the world...OIL is the one most worth fighting for.... is living in a silly neo-hippy dreamland.

Without oil, we would be without food, (no way to harvest it, and no way to distribute it), we would be without medical care, (everything is made of plastic), homes (paint, roofing, etc...), clothing (oil by-products), .....in fact, pretty much everything around you is some form of oil by-product/plastic. The things that are not oil products, are moved by a transport system that is utterly reliant on it.

Good luck living without it!

As far as all the rest, regarding the long term benefits of having some stable democracies in the middle east instead of the medieval dictatorships that foster ignorance and hatred...... I don't have time for all the same old silly arguments from the far left this evening

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AkiraSS

How will USA pay off it's debt to China/Japan?

That's an entire different issue. Some of the ultra-conservatives support building up a massive debt, as you can tell by their actions in recent decades, and here's why; they need it as an excuse to completely cut all social programs. These people don't think the government should do anything for people, and they're trying to undue every public program they have. Not only social security and medicare, those are just for starters. Public schools, free clinics, welfare, unemployment, everything service meant to help the public they want gone. They realize that there's no way to pull that off without massive public unrest, so they're going to intentionally manufacture a financial crisis so they can get their way. Put the country in bankruptcy and they'll have no option but to loose all social programs, certainly the military budget can't be touched. Why do you think Bush has been spending like a drunken sailer since he entered office?

This is the reason Clinton made it priority number one to balance the budget, as opposed to created additional social programs like universal health care. He was trying to save what social programs already exist. Unfortunately a majority of Americans are complete idiots who will vote against their best interests if TV tells them to and if the guy says God enough times.

[Bill8]

There is no gain.

Nor will anything be gained.

It is all loss.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Rich

That's an entire different issue. Some of the ultra-conservatives support building up a massive debt, as you can tell by their actions in recent decades, and here's why; they need it as an excuse to completely cut all social programs. These people don't think the government should do anything for people, and they're trying to undue every public program they have. Not only social security and medicare, those are just for starters. Public schools, free clinics, welfare, unemployment, everything service meant to help the public they want gone. They realize that there's no way to pull that off without massive public unrest, so they're going to intentionally manufacture a financial crisis so they can get their way. Put the country in bankruptcy and they'll have no option but to loose all social programs, certainly the military budget can't be touched. Why do you think Bush has been spending like a drunken sailer since he entered office?

This is the reason Clinton made it priority number one to balance the budget, as opposed to created additional social programs like universal health care. He was trying to save what social programs already exist. Unfortunately a majority of Americans are complete idiots who will vote against their best interests if TV tells them to and if the guy says God enough times.

I have to hand it to you Rich, your revisonist view of history is great! You crack me up buddy!

[Webby]

Originally Posted by AkiraSS

Really, call me dumb, but, USA is in huge debts.

Can someone enlighten me, what's in it for USA from this war to gain? It's almost 2 years now yes? How will USA pay off it's debt to China/Japan?

It's easy on hindsight, but evident from stage one that there was going to be little to gain in the foreseeable future.

Sure, it's also evident why the US wanted to start messing in the Middle East - and that had little to do with the purported reasons.

When ya got a guy repeating over and over stuff like "America has been attacked and we are are war defending ourselves" - it may have an effect on some, but the missing elements from that phrase are no mention of Iraq and the specific reasons for invading. Iraq never attacked the US - in fact, did not appear to give a toss about the US.

Dubya is trying with the repeated verbal - but others aleady used it years back - it's nothing new and he keeps trying to apply it to everything at the same time. Destined to fail - and already has failed.

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

- Goebbels', some 60 years earlier:

Seriously AkiraSS, gotta agree the US ecomony and stuff at home is more urgent than any wars. The US has survived on credit/loans for several decades - like $700ish/billion/year - and this is just not sustainable. The Bank of China alone must be lending in the region of 2-3 billion/day. Wars just cost money and make one hell of a lot of enemies if they are not "just" and a payback time is a great possibility.

[Tytan]

oil dude bloody oil

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[enzo]

simple

to make sure the oil does not go to china

[Rich]

Originally Posted by skinnywussy

I agree with Rich, but jayman hits closer to what the Bush admin. is thinking. Creating a honeypot in Iraq for evil-doers to flock to has allowed the US military to knock them off by the thousands. It hasn't solved any real problems, but there are plenty of dead extremists.

I respect your opinion but I think that's completely wrong. The people you're killing over there are overwhelmingly Iraqi's who are trying to defend their country, Fox News propaganda aside. The idea that you're fighting thousands of terrorists from all over the region and somehow preventing attacks against America is ludicrous. The war in Iraq only puts America in greater danger of foreign or domestic terrorists attacks.

You can't stop terrorism with bombs, you can only create more of it, that's the point. The government and the intelligence community realize this. Terrorism is what they call 'blowback' from previous military campaigns, to them it's the cost of imperialism, and a good excuse for further military action. Fighting the war over there so you don't have to fight it at home is, no offense, but the stupidest propaganda line I've heard come out of this entire mess by far. This is a war that America started against a population, it has nothing to do with killing "extremists" or "terrorists".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I have to hand it to you Rich, your revisonist view of history is great! You crack me up buddy!

For someone who seems to use the word revisionist every day you'd think you'd at least figure out what it means, or how to spell it. I'm glad you learned a new word though, keep it up and in a couple thousand years you may have an education of some sort.

[High Plains Drifter]

Originally Posted by Rich

I respect your opinion but I think that's completely wrong. The people you're killing over there are overwhelmingly Iraqi's who are trying to defend their country, Fox News propaganda aside. The idea that you're fighting thousands of terrorists from all over the region and somehow preventing attacks against America is ludicrous. The war in Iraq only puts America in greater danger of foreign or domestic terrorists attacks.

You can't stop terrorism with bombs, you can only create more of it, that's the point. The government and the intelligence community realize this. Terrorism is what they call 'blowback' from previous military campaigns, to them it's the cost of imperialism, and a good excuse for further military action. Fighting the war over there so you don't have to fight it at home is, no offense, but the stupidest propaganda line I've heard come out of this entire mess by far. This is a war that America started against a population, it has nothing to do with killing "extremists" or "terrorists".

For the most part I agree with you - I was refering to my own interpretation of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield logic in the previous post. The actual results in iraq are more like you described than an actual honeypot effect. Many more civilians are dying than insurgants. However, of the insurgents, its believed that many are coming over from Syria and such. Since the stronghold in (forget the city, to lazy to google, you know what I'm talking about) is right on the border of Syria, and insurgents are being killed by the hundreds weekly right now on that border, its safe to assume that foreign fighters are part of the insurgency.

What am I describing when I say "insurgents"? The ones who are indiscriminently killing civilians, foreigners and new iraqi government workers with no known agenda.

[Webby]

Got little doubt the US will leave Iraq under very similar circumstances it left Vietnam.

Who knows where that places those with a label "insurgents" - but consider the "insurgents" in that region fought another war with the Russian invasion and Russia also packed up and went home.

Probably now some "conventional warfare" planners realise some folks have no problem giving up their lives to fighting invaders and plenty more to take their place - it's how many decades an invader wants to play the game.

How long has the Basque movement been playing "terrorists"? Long before the US was ever heard of - from Roman Times.

The line of giving Iraq "freedoms" has been crossed - it's now into a crappy hells soup kitchen scenario.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by skinnywussy

For the most part I agree with you - I was refering to my own interpretation of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield logic in the previous post. The actual results in iraq are more like you described than an actual honeypot effect. Many more civilians are dying than insurgants. However, of the insurgents, its believed that many are coming over from Syria and such. Since the stronghold in (forget the city, to lazy to google, you know what I'm talking about) is right on the border of Syria, and insurgents are being killed by the hundreds weekly right now on that border, its safe to assume that foreign fighters are part of the insurgency.

What am I describing when I say "insurgents"? The ones who are indiscriminently killing civilians, foreigners and new iraqi government workers with no known agenda.

I don't doubt at all that fighters are coming in from Syria, but I think they're fighting to defend their region against colonialism rather than fighting because they're religious fundamentalists who would otherwise be attacking American cities. I also don't think that the Bush cabal has any illusions otherwise, despite their rhetoric. They know what they're doing over there, and it has nothing to do with stopping terrorists. These guys aren't stupid, they're just liars who think we're stupid.

[nico-t]

oooooiiiiilllllllll but so far its not really succesful

it will be in the future tho. Its just a matter of time.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Rich

I also don't think that the Bush cabal has any illusions otherwise, despite their rhetoric. They know what they're doing over there, and it has nothing to do with stopping terrorists. These guys aren't stupid, they're just liars who think we're stupid.

Agree!

The irony is they are not very good at the scam and it would appear a element within the US may still believe it, but to the rest of the world it's very transparent :-)

You can con some of the people some of the time, but don't think you can con em all of the time, - especially when ya have nada credibility! :-)

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by jaYMan

better there than here.

The Irakis are coming, the Irakis are coming

[High Plains Drifter]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't doubt at all that fighters are coming in from Syria, but I think they're fighting to defend their region against colonialism rather than fighting because they're religious fundamentalists who would otherwise be attacking American cities. I also don't think that the Bush cabal has any illusions otherwise, despite their rhetoric. They know what they're doing over there, and it has nothing to do with stopping terrorists. These guys aren't stupid, they're just liars who think we're stupid.

How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since we invaded iraq? ...ha, just kidding.

I would say that hardly any of the "fighters" are worried about colonialism. Some are religious extremists (foreign and otherwise), some are Sunnis that want their power back, and some are paid merceneries.

And yes, politicians are liars. Thats how the system works.

[GigoloJustin]

Originally Posted by davethetruth

We get more oil from canada then from iraq, lets go invade them

I'm with you! Saddle up, lets get umM!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by skinnywussy

How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since we invaded iraq? ...ha, just kidding.

I would say that hardly any of the "fighters" are worried about colonialism. Some are religious extremists (foreign and otherwise), some are Sunnis that want their power back, and some are paid merceneries.

And yes, politicians are liars. Thats how the system works.

Modern colonialism is the control over people and resources by American corporations at the barrel of a gun, which is what this war is about, and I think that is what most Iraqi's are fighting against. Any country who does not allow what the elites call "globalization" and "free trade" is at risk of being invaded. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, North Korea, etc. None of these countries pose any threat to the USA, yet they're all in line to be bombed into submission.

[VeriSexy]

1) Weapons manufactories make billions of dollars in contracts paid for by the tax payer.

2) Oil companies also making hundreds of billions by getting access to the oil.

3) Contractors get billions of dollars paid for by the tax payer to rebuild Iraq

4) Consumers get to live a stable life cause they can't live without the oil.

5) In the end, war is good for the economy. Look what WW1/2 did for the US economy

[vvq]

this flash video sums it up pretty well.

http://www.knife-party.net/flash/barry.html

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Rich

This is the reason Clinton made it priority number one to balance the budget, as opposed to created additional social programs like universal health care. He was trying to save what social programs already exist. Unfortunately a majority of Americans are complete idiots who will vote against their best interests if TV tells them to and if the guy says God enough times.

That's interesting. I guess you aren't old enough to actually remember the Clinton admin. In fact, he DID try to pass universal healthcare, and it was shot down. He was CONSTANTLY trying to push through new social programs and they were shot down. Welfare reform was put through in spite of his efforts to stop it, as was the "contract with america" that was a massive help to the economy. As for Social Security, he was saying the same things that Bush is now saying, AND he was ALSO proposing private accounts.... the same as Bush.

Of course, his attack on Kosovo, a nation that was no threat to us, didn't happen either.

I'm just interested.... and this is not an insult. How old are you, and where have you lived in your life? I'm honestly curious.

Also, just to bring this in again from my earlier post...

Sorry, but anyone that doesn't realize that out of all of the substances in the world...OIL is the one most worth fighting for.... is living in a silly neo-hippy dreamland.

Without oil, we would be without food, (no way to harvest it, and no way to distribute it), we would be without medical care, (everything is made of plastic), homes (paint, roofing, etc...), clothing (oil by-products), .....in fact, pretty much everything around you is some form of oil by-product/plastic. The things that are not oil products, are moved by a transport system that is utterly reliant on it.

Good luck living without it!

[Triple 6]

its great so many people realize the truth about their government.

its sad that 99.99999999999% will do nothing and continue to get fucked up the ass.


carry on.