2257 and Canadian Privacy Laws

[Paul Waters]

I have been going over this with my lawyer.

His reading of the law leaves two questions to ask:

Must the photo ID have the model's address? The Canadian provincial health cards seem to satisfy 2257, but do have the address on the photo side of the ID.

Must the model release give the model's residence address, or can it be her business address, which would be *mine* as her contracted agent.

Would you US buyers be OK with this?

Another question, must the photo ID be issued by the government of the country the model lives in? We see no such requirement.

What do you think?

Cheers

[Paul Waters]

Opps, I missed a word.

The health cards do *not* have the address on the photo ID side of the card.

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

Opps, I missed a word.

The health cards do *not* have the address on the photo ID side of the card.

BC CareCards don't have photo or address.The have the number, the name and the DOB. BCDL's and BCID's have the name, DOB, pic and address.

J.

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by JohnW

BC CareCards don't have photo or address.The have the number, the name and the DOB. BCDL's and BCID's have the name, DOB, pic and address.

J.

I learned something.

In Ontario and a number of other provinces I have seen, the card has a photo and DOB on the front, and the address is on the back.

[Steen2]

Aren't "Provincial Medical Cards" different in each province?

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

I learned something.

In Ontario and a number of other provinces I have seen, the card has a photo and DOB on the front, and the address is on the back.

Yeah, we prefer DL's, as they have everything on them, but we'll take Passports as well, along with a SIN, or CareCard.

J.

[LadyMischief]

Health cards are not considered ID... Something like a driver's license or passport would be about all that would be totally acceptable. As for privacy, hit me up Paul, you know I can fill you in on that

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Health cards are not considered ID... Something like a driver's license or passport would be about all that would be totally acceptable. As for privacy, hit me up Paul, you know I can fill you in on that

I'll hit you up (haven't for a while... lol)...

But to keep the thread going:

Why are the new Health Cards not considered ID. They are government issued, with photo, and have DOB and address, albeitly on the back.

I don't have 2257 in front of me, but my recollection is that it requires varifiable government issued photo ID, and it must be in English. The Health cards satisfy this.

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by JohnW

Yeah, we prefer DL's, as they have everything on them, but we'll take Passports as well, along with a SIN, or CareCard.

J.

The goal is to find a way of satisfying 2257 without providing the model's residence address.

That rules out DL's.

Funny that passports are OK, even when they may have an out of date address.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I see in the regulations no specific requirement for producers to have a performer's address - just legal name, alias(es) and DOB. Wouldn't sanitized IDs be just fine, assuming they contain that information?

After all, a passport is an acceptable ID and mine (U.S.) doesn't show my address, except where I've hand-written it in on a subsequent page.

[jact]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

I'll hit you up (haven't for a while... lol)...

But to keep the thread going:

Why are the new Health Cards not considered ID. They are government issued, with photo, and have DOB and address, albeitly on the back.

I don't have 2257 in front of me, but my recollection is that it requires varifiable government issued photo ID, and it must be in English. The Health cards satisfy this.

It's our Government that has specified that the health cards are not valid identification, not theirs. I'm not 100% as to why this is, but it's not valid as primary id.

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by CognitiveDissonance

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I see in the regulations no specific requirement for producers to have a performer's address - just legal name, alias(es) and DOB. Wouldn't sanitized IDs be just fine, assuming they contain that information?

After all, a passport is an acceptable ID and mine (U.S.) doesn't show my address, except where I've hand-written it in on a subsequent page.

All the ID has to have on it is a picture, DOB, and legal name. Address on the ID isn't essential. I could have shot someone 4 years ago and have their DL on file, but they could have moved since then. They can be tracked down (if need be) via the DL number though, as the address on the card is useless.

;)

J.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by jact

It's our Government that has specified that the health cards are not valid identification, not theirs. I'm not 100% as to why this is, but it's not valid as primary id.

Where is this written?

In QC, it's harder to get a health card, than a license

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by jact

It's our Government that has specified that the health cards are not valid identification, not theirs. I'm not 100% as to why this is, but it's not valid as primary id.

Hmmm... the concept of primary ID is a US government 2257 requirement.

Health cards are accepted by, for example, Money Mart, as the only photo ID.

The Canadian government has no equivalent to 2257. There is no Canadian law requirement to maintain any records, or make anything available to any inspector with regards to porn production.

It is in our own best interests to be able to prove that our performers are above 18, but failing to do that, is not, in and of itself, a crime.

Does any other country have a 2257 equivalent?

[jact]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Where is this written?

In QC, it's harder to get a health card, than a license

I'm trying to find reference to something official, so far all I have to go by is the fact that everywhere in Ontario that's required to take id for whatever reason (Bar, smoke shop, etc) have signs printed by the Ministry of Health that OHIP cards are NOT valid identification. I think that says something about their stand on it..

[jact]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

Hmmm... the concept of primary ID is a US government 2257 requirement.

Health cards are accepted by, for example, Money Mart, as the only photo ID.

The Canadian government has no equivalent to 2257. There is no Canadian law requirement to maintain any records, or make anything available to any inspector with regards to porn production.

It is in our own best interests to be able to prove that our performers are above 18, but failing to do that, is not, in and of itself, a crime.

Does any other country have a 2257 equivalent?

If our government doesn't consider a health card as a valid form of ID and you sell content to a client who is US, and the US folks for whatever reason try to cross check with the issuing agency and find out it's not valid or already know, that client may get fried. I don't know, I just know that locally, it isn't considered legal id, so i'd be wary to let my clients rely on just that...

[LadyMischief]

It has to be traceable through a strictly government authority, I believe. I could be wrong though.

[BuggyG]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Where is this written?

In QC, it's harder to get a health card, than a license

seriously.. the good old days when we'd just use friends or family members cards for hospital/doctor or driving

I miss 'em

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by jact

I'm trying to find reference to something official, so far all I have to go by is the fact that everywhere in Ontario that's required to take id for whatever reason (Bar, smoke shop, etc) have signs printed by the Ministry of Health that OHIP cards are NOT valid identification. I think that says something about their stand on it..

OHIP cards are the old red and white ones, without photos. So no good as ID.

The new Health Cards, with photo, are valid ID, as far as I know.

[jact]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

OHIP cards are the old red and white ones, without photos. So no good as ID.

The new Health Cards, with photo, are valid ID, as far as I know.

I'll snap a picture of the sign next time I see it, maybe it'll shed some light on a site with the info why it isn't, but trust me, bars and smoke shops aren't allowed to take it as id.. makes you wonder?

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by jact

I'll snap a picture of the sign next time I see it, maybe it'll shed some light on a site with the info why it isn't, but trust me, bars and smoke shops aren't allowed to take it as id.. makes you wonder?

I will make some inquiries today.

How would a 19 yo who does not have a DL buy smokes or beer?

[Hardlinks]

Health Cards are NOT considered legal id (atleast not by the definition of what we would call legal id), this is part of the many safety features and practices the Canadian Government put into place to curb health fraud.

Everybody MUST have one to get health care and NOWHERE may accept them as identification except for a Medical Facility (and if they dont know you may ask for another peice as well.)

[seven]

Originally Posted by Paul Waters

The new Health Cards, with photo, are valid ID, as far as I know.

And you would be right. If you ever filled out any citizenship app for anyone you'd know the Gov says acceptable personal ids are a driver's license, a health card etc.

[BrainCash JF]

Originally Posted by CognitiveDissonance

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I see in the regulations no specific requirement for producers to have a performer's address - just legal name, alias(es) and DOB. Wouldn't sanitized IDs be just fine, assuming they contain that information?

After all, a passport is an acceptable ID and mine (U.S.) doesn't show my address, except where I've hand-written it in on a subsequent page.

I agree....where did you see that we MUST provide models addresses ?

75.2 Maintenance of records.

....for each performer portrayed in
such visual depiction, create and
maintain records containing the
following:
(1) The legal name and date of birth
of each performer, obtained by the
producer?s examination of a picture
identification card. For any performer
portrayed in such a depiction made after
July 3, 1995, the records shall also
include a legible copy of the
identification document examined and,
if that document does not contain a
recent and recognizable picture of the
performer, a legible copy of a picture
identification card......Any name, other than each
performer?s legal name, ever used by the
performer, including the performer?s
maiden name, alias, nickname, stage
name, or professional name....

[BrainCash JF]

Definition of ' foreign ID ' :

Sec. 75.1 Definitions

(b) Picture identification card means a document issued by the
United States, a State government or a political subdivision thereof,
or a United States territory, that bears the photograph and the name of
the individual identified, and provides sufficient specific information
that it can be accessed from the issuing authority, such as a passport,
Permanent Resident Card (commonly known as a ``Green Card''), or other
employment authorization document issued by the United States, a
driver's license issued by a State or the District of Columbia, or
another form of identification issued by a State or the District of
Columbia; or, a foreign government-issued equivalent of any of the
documents listed above when both the person who is the subject of the
picture identification card and the producer maintaining the required
records are located outside the United States.

Health care card provides :

- the photograph and the name of
the individual identified ( plus DOB )

- provides sufficient specific information
that it can be accessed from the issuing authority

- so Health card is a foreign government-issued equivalent

[basschick]

you are wrong. the possibility of sanitized i.d. is covered in the comments at the top of the law, and are rejected specifically.

Originally Posted by CognitiveDissonance

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I see in the regulations no specific requirement for producers to have a performer's address - just legal name, alias(es) and DOB. Wouldn't sanitized IDs be just fine, assuming they contain that information?

After all, a passport is an acceptable ID and mine (U.S.) doesn't show my address, except where I've hand-written it in on a subsequent page.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Originally Posted by basschick

you are wrong. the possibility of sanitized i.d. is covered in the comments at the top of the law, and are rejected specifically.

er, no, I don't think so. It's covered in the comments section, but the actual language of the regulations themselves makes no mention of sanitization at all. And the comments only discussed the issue of *requiring* primary producers to sanitize documents and then provide a notarized affadavit to secondary producers along with them.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Originally Posted by BrainCash JF

I agree....where did you see that we MUST provide models addresses ?

The point I was making was that I DIDN'T see anything in the regulations about providing an address. However, the discussion up-thread was about providing addresses, and that was making me wonder whether I had perhaps just missed something in my reading.

[BrainCash JF]

Originally Posted by CognitiveDissonance

The point I was making was that I DIDN'T see anything in the regulations about providing an address. However, the discussion up-thread was about providing addresses, and that was making me wonder whether I had perhaps just missed something in my reading.

got it ;)

[Bhelliom1980]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Where is this written?

In QC, it's harder to get a health card, than a license

Health cards can be used as valid ID . However, people are NOT allowed to ask for them. they must ask for and accept anything else first. this is becuase health cards have more private information on the apparently. not to mention that if you're using your health card to say... get into a bar... it probably means that your DL is being used by someone else to get into the same bar.

[Paul Waters]

Originally Posted by Bhelliom1980

Health cards can be used as valid ID . However, people are NOT allowed to ask for them. they must ask for and accept anything else first. this is becuase health cards have more private information on the apparently. not to mention that if you're using your health card to say... get into a bar... it probably means that your DL is being used by someone else to get into the same bar.

I checked as to whether Health Card ID's would be accepted for the purchase of alcohol or tabacco in Ontario, and they are *not*. The regulations list what is acceptable ID, and the health card is not included. I could not find anything saying that Health Cards could not be used, as long as the requirements of the Canadian Privacy Act are followed. And because the address is not on the photo side of the card, it is a better card to use within the context of privacy.