Is it the end for Canada's Healthcare system? I think not. Its a great addition

[notjoe]

This two tier healthcare system is a great thing. It gives people choices. It'll also reduce the burden on the current system.

HOWEVER, they must not be allowed to write the expense off/claim it on their taxes because it is just that which would be the downfall to the healthcare system. It would be like taking money OUT OF the system which is the last thing we need and want...

I think the next little while will be very interesting.

[CDSmith]

I think the two-tier model is actually a very BAD thing for Canada. I have no doubt that you'll be hearing several good reasons why on various news spots in the coming weeks (if you haven't already)

I would rather see a small userfee at emergency rooms for people coming in with non-emergency cases, since it is those people who bog down the system quite a bit with their sore throats and sniffles etc. They could just as easily go to a walk-in clinic but instead choose to go to the ER for treatment. A $5 or $10 userfee wouldn't kill those people.

[Brad Gosse]

I can't WAIT to start visiting private doctors.

I would much rather pay for better care than deal with the shit that we have now. This is good news if you can afford a better doctor. Otherwise you will not see any changes.

[taibo]

who cares

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

I can't WAIT to start visiting private doctors.

Don't go getting your chequebook out just yet. This doesn't seem to be about the two-tier system but more about bringing in more insurance options for Canadians.

Take a look... http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...80136-sun.html

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin said yesterday's Supreme Court ruling drives home the "urgent" need to tackle long waiting lists, but dismissed claims it spells the death of medicare in Canada.

"We're not going to have a two-tier health care system in this country -- nobody wants that," he said.

"What we want to do is to strengthen the public health care system. We want to make sure it is universal, we want to make sure we have timely access. That is what this is all about."

Downplaying the significance of the top court's decision, Martin denied the Liberal government created the wait-time crisis by slashing funding to the provinces.

"What today's decision does do, however, is accentuate just how important it is to act immediately, how urgent this situation is," he said.

But Deputy Conservative Leader Peter MacKay blamed Martin for killing the health system with "brutal" cuts he made as finance minister. Yesterday's ruling reflects a real danger that Canadians will lose universal, publicly funded health care, he said.

"The great fear is that it will lead to a 10-tier, patchwork quilt-type of health care system," he said.

"Depending on what province you live in, and depending on the availability of these private clinics if they continue to proliferate, Canadians are not going to be afforded equal treatment of access and equal treatment to health care across the country. That to me is a real threat."

Cut demand for private care

Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh insisted the $41-billion accord signed with provinces last fall will reduce wait times. The best way to fend off a trend of private insurance and care is to cut the demand, he said.

"My view is we need to strengthen the public health care system so there is no need for private care, and we are already on our way to doing that," he said.

[jayeff]

The availability of privately-funded health care as an addition to a national program, seems entirely fair and reasonable. But this is the real world.

The Canadian national health system is harmed by bureaucracy and waste. While still cheaper and more broadly effective than - for example - the private-only system in the US, it is one of the most expensive, most flawed of all the national health programs. As private healthcare becomes widely available at a reasonable price, how long before opportunistic politicians start asking those who are covered if they really want to keep paying taxes to support that flawed system. Even before things go that far, you can guarantee those in government will begin to judge they can trim a little funding here and some more there, without undue protest, thus weakening national healthcare still further.

[notjoe]

Originally Posted by jayeff

The availability of privately-funded health care as an addition to a national program, seems entirely fair and reasonable. But this is the real world.

The Canadian national health system is harmed by bureaucracy and waste. While still cheaper and more broadly effective than - for example - the private-only system in the US, it is one of the most expensive, most flawed of all the national health programs. As private healthcare becomes widely available at a reasonable price, how long before opportunistic politicians start asking those who are covered if they really want to keep paying taxes to support that flawed system. Even before things go that far, you can guarantee those in government will begin to judge they can trim a little funding here and some more there, without undue protest, thus weakening national healthcare still further.

I understand your logic and reasoning behind what you've said but that isnt the way the population of Canada thinks. We've said numerous times we rather not take a tax cut to inorder to keep the system going and i honestly believe it would never happen because that healthcare system is a part of what Canada is all about, what it stands for.

Honestly, i really like CDSmiths suggestion...Charge everyone who comes in with a non-emergency situtation a $5-10 administrative fee. Makes complete sense.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by notjoe

that healthcare system is a part of what Canada is all about, what it stands for

I really hope you are right and because the UK - which also treasures its NHS - is drifting in the direction I described, does not mean that Canada must. The best way to avoid that future will be to be on guard for any signs of it.

[cool1]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I think the two-tier model is actually a very BAD thing for Canada. I have no doubt that you'll be hearing several good reasons why on various news spots in the coming weeks (if you haven't already)

I would rather see a small userfee at emergency rooms for people coming in with non-emergency cases, since it is those people who bog down the system quite a bit with their sore throats and sniffles etc. They could just as easily go to a walk-in clinic but instead choose to go to the ER for treatment. A $5 or $10 userfee wouldn't kill those people.

I agree there should be a small user fee for those idiots that go to the emergency room for a sore throat or a damn cold.

The last time I went to emergency for a broken ankle I waited 3 hours and the 2 people ahead of me were there for colds, can you believe that, bloody idiots.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by cool1

I agree there should be a small user fee for those idiots that go to the emergency room for a sore throat or a damn cold.

The last time I went to emergency for a broken ankle I waited 3 hours and the 2 people ahead of me were there for colds, can you believe that, bloody idiots.

the same shit happens in the US. if you cant afford health care you goto the emergency room to treat your cold. its bullshit

[Brad Gosse]

Originally Posted by cool1

I agree there should be a small user fee for those idiots that go to the emergency room for a sore throat or a damn cold.

The last time I went to emergency for a broken ankle I waited 3 hours and the 2 people ahead of me were there for colds, can you believe that, bloody idiots.

Yep, those people should have to pay a fee for wasting time @ emerg.

MOST of the people in the emergency room could have waited till morning to see their doctor. The only exception is little kids, they can't tell us what's wrong and you never know when a fever is something worse.

I think because our health care is paid for it gets taken for granted by some people. The perception is that it's "free" when in fact it's a very expensive health care plan paid for by high taxes.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

Yep, those people should have to pay a fee for wasting time @ emerg.

MOST of the people in the emergency room could have waited till morning to see their doctor. The only exception is little kids, they can't tell us what's wrong and you never know when a fever is something worse.

I think because our health care is paid for it gets taken for granted by some people. The perception is that it's "free" when in fact it's a very expensive health care plan paid for by high taxes.

every canadian on this board claims its free. maybe you should start with those people. its "free" here in california too making it impossible to get treated at the emergency room. they attempted to charge here once but no one paid. if you're on welfare chances are you wont pay the $5-10. they cant turn you away so where do they go from there?

[notjoe]

Originally Posted by bringer

every canadian on this board claims its free. maybe you should start with those people. its "free" here in california too making it impossible to get treated at the emergency room. they attempted to charge here once but no one paid. if you're on welfare chances are you wont pay the $5-10. they cant turn you away so where do they go from there?

Welfare is an exception but as for the $10 fees, just keep it in a rolling account and charge the person interest...eventually you'll be able to sell it to collection agencies.

[Manga1]

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

I can't WAIT to start visiting private doctors.

I would much rather pay for better care than deal with the shit that we have now. This is good news if you can afford a better doctor. Otherwise you will not see any changes.

Are you sure about that? Do you want to be put in a position where you are questioning whether you really need something your doctor is advising, or whether he is just "upselling" you?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by bringer

every canadian on this board claims its free. maybe you should start with those people. its "free" here in california too making it impossible to get treated at the emergency room. they attempted to charge here once but no one paid. if you're on welfare chances are you wont pay the $5-10. they cant turn you away so where do they go from there?

Up here we certainly can turn someone away who is non-emergency. With there being more and more walk-in clinics springing up all over people who are assessed as low priority can either pay a small fee at the ER or go to a clinic and get treated. I can't speak to the California situation but up here in Canuckleville it is certainly feasible.

[FilthyRob]

My insurance here in california costs me like 15% of my income I think

[seven]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I would rather see a small userfee at emergency rooms for people coming in with non-emergency cases, since it is those people who bog down the system quite a bit with their sore throats and sniffles etc. They could just as easily go to a walk-in clinic but instead choose to go to the ER for treatment. A $5 or $10 userfee wouldn't kill those people.

good idea however, i'd say make that $50 fine so it really teaches those morons a lesson.