Did Evil Genius post there 2257 policy here yet?....Well here it is anyway - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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Damian_Maxcash

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#1

Did Evil Genius post there 2257 policy here yet?....Well here it is anyway

06-07-2005, 10:31 PM

With the recent modifications to the 2257 law we have been forced to make changes to the Evil Genius Cash program. The Terms & Conditions have been modified to include a statement related to our exclusive content and the 2257 regulations. <A HREF="http://www.evilgeniuscash.com/external.php?page=terms">Read The Terms!</A></P>

<P>Evil Genius Cash/Inner Zone will not be releasing our model identification documents to its webmasters. We feel that our model's privacy is far more important than our own personal gain. I'm sure our webmasters wouldn't like their own personal information handed out to 1000's of people either.</P>

<P>We have updated the free content sections of our program to now only include non-nude photos and video samples. Non-nude being the keyword. Over the last few weeks the EGC team has worked incredibly hard to produce new non-nude promotional content and advertisements. We hope that this advanced notice will allow our webmasters enough time to modify the self-hosted promotions for our sites. Please have all content and advertisements changed out by June 20th.</P>

<P>To make things clear: Non-nude means zero nudity, no boobs, ass, or crotch area. We will be enforcing our copyright on all explicit content. This includes ALL webmasters no matter what country you reside in. Hot linking, Iframes, and normal Frames are not allowed and will not protect you from the 2257 rules.</P>

----------------------------------------------

Sorry about the html, they messed up the mailer and I couldnt be bothered editing it.

Another one not making any concesions to non US webmasters.... Aside from my purely selfish motives, Im really not sure that this policy is a good idea.

Another one to cross off my list - no great loss to them - but it will add up over a number of sponsors.

Last edited by Damian_Maxcash; 06-07-2005, 10:32 PM. Reason: typo
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#2

06-07-2005, 10:35 PM

its alright, all hail king george

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TheDoc

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#3

06-07-2005, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by damian2001

With the recent modifications to the 2257 law we have been forced to make changes to the Evil Genius Cash program. The Terms & Conditions have been modified to include a statement related to our exclusive content and the 2257 regulations. <A HREF="http://www.evilgeniuscash.com/external.php?page=terms">Read The Terms!</A></P>

<P>Evil Genius Cash/Inner Zone will not be releasing our model identification documents to its webmasters. We feel that our model's privacy is far more important than our own personal gain. I'm sure our webmasters wouldn't like their own personal information handed out to 1000's of people either.</P>

<P>We have updated the free content sections of our program to now only include non-nude photos and video samples. Non-nude being the keyword. Over the last few weeks the EGC team has worked incredibly hard to produce new non-nude promotional content and advertisements. We hope that this advanced notice will allow our webmasters enough time to modify the self-hosted promotions for our sites. Please have all content and advertisements changed out by June 20th.</P>

<P>To make things clear: Non-nude means zero nudity, no boobs, ass, or crotch area. We will be enforcing our copyright on all explicit content. This includes ALL webmasters no matter what country you reside in. Hot linking, Iframes, and normal Frames are not allowed and will not protect you from the 2257 rules.</P>

----------------------------------------------

Sorry about the html, they messed up the mailer and I couldnt be bothered editing it.

Another one not making any concesions to non US webmasters.... Aside from my purely selfish motives, Im really not sure that this policy is a good idea.

Another one to cross off my list - no great loss to them - but it will add up over a number of sponsors.

The html e-mail works fine, sounds like your email program is set to text. The text version should send sometime shortly.

How is this purely selfish motives? Why would I give non US webmasters an advantage over a US webmasters?

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Lensman

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#4

06-07-2005, 10:44 PM

Interesting.
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Manowar

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#5

06-07-2005, 10:45 PM

nice move Evil Genius Cash, i can see you did what you had to to protect your business
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TheDoc

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#6

06-07-2005, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Lensman

Interesting.

What's on your mind Lenz?

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NTSS

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#7

06-07-2005, 10:47 PM

Non nude may = higher conversions...You gotta pay to play! I think the whole industry should go that way.

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Lensman

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#8

06-07-2005, 10:49 PM

I wonder why you wouldn't let webmasters use softcore content.
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#9

06-07-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by Lensman

I wonder why you wouldn't let webmasters use softcore content.

Thats what I was wondering too.

So far, all the sponsors unwilling to give out IDs have been scrambling to make softcore content and banners available as a replacement for existing hardcore. EGC's policy seems unique in this regard.

Since softcore requires no ID release, why would it no longer be allowed for use by affiliates?

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sweetcuties

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#10

06-07-2005, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by NTSS

Non nude may = higher conversions...You gotta pay to play! I think the whole industry should go that way.

absolutely brilliant... non nude and tease (topless etc) I've been preaching that for close to 5yrs
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TheDoc

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#11

06-07-2005, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Lensman

I wonder why you wouldn't let webmasters use softcore content.

I don't want to be responsible for crossing the line with softcore content. Also NN brings in more clicks and converts just as good.

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dopeman

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#12

06-07-2005, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by kernelpanic

Thats what I was wondering too.

So far, all the sponsors unwilling to give out IDs have been scrambling to make softcore content and banners available as a replacement for existing hardcore. EGC's policy seems unique in this regard.

Since softcore requires no ID release, why would it no longer be allowed for use by affiliates?

the regulations make clear that Sundance is not relevant and affiliates need Model ID retroactively for all previous publishing of hard core content. by not giving out the model IDs, affiliates are completely vulnerable.
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kane

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#13

06-07-2005, 10:56 PM

I have to wonder how well some sites will do with only softcore non-nude style content to promote them. especially the more hardcore/extreme sites. It's cool that you have to pay to play, but will your free sites and galleries be really successful using non-nude softcore to pomote a hardcore site?

I guess we'll find out.
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#14

06-07-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by damian2001

With the recent modifications to the 2257 law we have been forced to make changes to the Evil Genius Cash program. The Terms & Conditions have been modified to include a statement related to our exclusive content and the 2257 regulations. <A HREF="http://www.evilgeniuscash.com/external.php?page=terms">Read The Terms!</A></P>

<P>Evil Genius Cash/Inner Zone will not be releasing our model identification documents to its webmasters. We feel that our model's privacy is far more important than our own personal gain. I'm sure our webmasters wouldn't like their own personal information handed out to 1000's of people either.</P>

<P>We have updated the free content sections of our program to now only include non-nude photos and video samples. Non-nude being the keyword. Over the last few weeks the EGC team has worked incredibly hard to produce new non-nude promotional content and advertisements. We hope that this advanced notice will allow our webmasters enough time to modify the self-hosted promotions for our sites. Please have all content and advertisements changed out by June 20th.</P>

<P>To make things clear: Non-nude means zero nudity, no boobs, ass, or crotch area. We will be enforcing our copyright on all explicit content. This includes ALL webmasters no matter what country you reside in. Hot linking, Iframes, and normal Frames are not allowed and will not protect you from the 2257 rules.</P>

----------------------------------------------

Sorry about the html, they messed up the mailer and I couldnt be bothered editing it.

Another one not making any concesions to non US webmasters.... Aside from my purely selfish motives, Im really not sure that this policy is a good idea.

Another one to cross off my list - no great loss to them - but it will add up over a number of sponsors.

good for them now surfers will convert better and retain

SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.
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TheDoc

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#15

06-07-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by kane

I have to wonder how well some sites will do with only softcore non-nude style content to promote them. especially the more hardcore/extreme sites. It's cool that you have to pay to play, but will your free sites and galleries be really successful using non-nude softcore to pomote a hardcore site?

I guess we'll find out.

Softcore non-nude doesn't do very well on hardcore sites, gota have good text. Our main site is a softcore busty site, so NN works great. The bigdick site is 95% all exit traffic from other affiliate programs.

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Damian_Maxcash

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06-07-2005, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by TheDoc

The html e-mail works fine, sounds like your email program is set to text. The text version should send sometime shortly.

How is this purely selfish motives? Why would I give non US webmasters an advantage over a US webmasters?

Sorry, Im on my 3rd bottle of wine and I tend to get a little obscure at this stage. I was talking about my selfish motives.

Why wouldnt you give non-US webmasters an advantage over US webmasters if it makes you more money... You are a business arnt you?

Everyone here is in business and would understand that you cant cut off your nose to spite your face here.

As far as the HTML is concerned I recieve HTML mail all hte time... This was sent as plain text. If you mean that my settings with you are set as txt then I apoligize.
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#17

06-07-2005, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by dopeman

the regulations make clear that Sundance is not relevant and affiliates need Model ID retroactively for all previous publishing of hard core content. by not giving out the model IDs, affiliates are completely vulnerable.

You know, it does not matter how many times you say it, it is still wrong.
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#18

06-07-2005, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by baddog

You know, it does not matter how many times you say it, it is still wrong.

trust me. i want to be wrong.

the D.C. Circuit, in American Library
Ass'n v. Reno, had upheld the requirement that secondary producers
maintain records. The Department is not responsible if secondary
producers chose to rely on the Tenth Circuit's holding in Sundance and
not to maintain records while ignoring the D.C. Circuit's holding in
American Library Ass'n v. Reno. A prudent secondary producer would have
continued to secure copies of the records from primary producers after
July 3, 1995. If those records, which are statutorily required, are not
currently available, then the commenters are correct that they will be
required to comply with the requirements of all applicable laws,
including section 2257(f). They are incorrect, however, to claim that
this would result in an impermissible burden on free speech. As the
D.C. Circuit held, the government has a compelling state interest in
protecting children from sexual exploitation. If the producers (primary
and secondary) of sexually explicit depictions cannot document that
children were not used for the production of the sexually explicit
depictions, then they must take whatever appropriate actions are
warranted to comply with the child exploitation, obscenity, and record-
keeping statutes. The First Amendment is not offended by making it
unlawful knowingly to fail or refuse to comply with the record-keeping
or labeling provisions of this valid statute.

The commentary refers to section 2257(f) in the event that the secondary producers are unable to produce the complete records for all content that they ever published. Section 2257(f) is the part of the law that basically says, 'failure to maintain the required records is a crime!'
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TheDoc

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06-07-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by damian2001

Sorry, Im on my 3rd bottle of wine and I tend to get a little obscure at this stage. I was talking about my selfish motives.

Why wouldnt you give non-US webmasters an advantage over US webmasters if it makes you more money... You are a business arnt you?

Everyone here is in business and would understand that you cant cut off your nose to spite your face here.

As far as the HTML is concerned I recieve HTML mail all hte time... This was sent as plain text. If you mean that my settings with you are set as txt then I apoligize.

Straight up, I don?t want to push it.. Why wait to be made an example of? What is crossing the line? Who gets to make that choice? Some jackass judge with a hardon to bust a porn company...

So, to keep my ass safe and my webmasters ass safe, I went with non-nude.

Tis ok.. A few years after all the webmasters have been nailed for using softcore content that they couldn't prove the age on.. EGC will still be standing strong, dishing out NN content

Try pushing BAB with the NN stuff.. It does pretty good.

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baddog

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06-07-2005, 11:09 PM

TheDoc, I presume, that like Lightspeed, you are only saying they can only use your NN content. If an affiliate has their own content you don't care what they do with it.
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TheDoc

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#21

06-07-2005, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by baddog

TheDoc, I presume, that like Lightspeed, you are only saying they can only use your NN content. If an affiliate has their own content you don't care what they do with it.

Webmasters can use their own content, by all means.

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TheDoc

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#22

06-07-2005, 11:19 PM

Welp I'm off to bed.. If any of our webmasters have questions or concerns you are more than welcome to drop me an e-mail or icq.

http://new.evilgeniuscash.com/intern...page=contactus

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Damian_Maxcash

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#23

06-07-2005, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by baddog

TheDoc, I presume, that like Lightspeed, you are only saying they can only use your NN content. If an affiliate has their own content you don't care what they do with it.

Thats a good question.... I have to admit that Im trying to find out where I stand in all this mess (like everyone else) and a I think a lot of relevent stuff is being missed.

At the moment it seems that sponsors are falling into 2 groups.

1. One rule for everyone.

2. We are willing to put in some effort to cater for both US and non US webmasters seperatly.
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baddog

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#24

06-07-2005, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by damian2001

Thats a good question.... I have to admit that Im trying to find out where I stand in all this mess (like everyone else) and a I think a lot of relevent stuff is being missed.

At the moment it seems that sponsors are falling into 2 groups.

1. One rule for everyone.

2. We are willing to put in some effort to cater for both US and non US webmasters seperatly.

Taking the logical stance here (careful, some people may want to stand back for this), programs that are limiting the use of softcore and/or NN content for the promotion of their sites, are only talking about sponsor provided content.

If you have your own content, and want to promote the program, knock yourself out.
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#25

06-07-2005, 11:47 PM

TheDoc is taking a very conservative approach, and it's one that he can get away with and still run a profitable business.

Most sites couldn't stay in business if they made a move like this....but hell some of the girls in BAB's members area don't even go bottomless....it's a true big breast fetish site, it's not your typical "boob" site.

Probably 80% of BAB's members area is exempt from 2257 because it's so softcore.
Every program is approaching 2257 in a different way, and until there's some solid case law on this issue we really won't know who was right or wrong in the way they handled it.

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#26

06-08-2005, 01:09 AM

intresting approach, I hope no one else goes this way
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#27

06-08-2005, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by TheDoc

How is this purely selfish motives? Why would I give non US webmasters an advantage over a US webmasters?

its not about advantage or disadvantage, its about options...why should for example dutch webmasters follow different laws then theirs? Its discriminating.
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Snake Doctor

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#28

06-08-2005, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

its not about advantage or disadvantage, its about options...why should for example dutch webmasters follow different laws then theirs? Its discriminating.

Actually requiring everyone to follow the same rules is the exact opposite of discrimination.

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kristin

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#29

06-08-2005, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Lenny2

TheDoc is taking a very conservative approach, and it's one that he can get away with and still run a profitable business.

Most sites couldn't stay in business if they made a move like this....but hell some of the girls in BAB's members area don't even go bottomless....it's a true big breast fetish site, it's not your typical "boob" site.

Probably 80% of BAB's members area is exempt from 2257 because it's so softcore.
Every program is approaching 2257 in a different way, and until there's some solid case law on this issue we really won't know who was right or wrong in the way they handled it.

Thanks for the support Lenny and you are right about BAB ... it's not the typical boob site and there is VERY little sex that even takes place.

This whole 2257 thing boils down to trial and error. We prefer to not be the error and are taking the conservative approach. We are a smaller company and have a lot at risk. With Chris and I running this and being married with two very young boys, it's not something we care to take lightly.

When a webmaster asks for ID's we see it as two things (whether you are US or not):
1. We respect our models and when they agreed to shoot for us there was never any mention of having ID's online and I'm not about to give some random webmaster personal information about our girls.

2. When it's your head on the chopping block and you could go to jail for five years or get nailed with fines so badly that it could take your company out ... come talk to me.

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#30

06-08-2005, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

its not about advantage or disadvantage, its about options...why should for example dutch webmasters follow different laws then theirs? Its discriminating.

Flip the coin for a second. Why should an American sponsor make "special" rules for affiliates in another country just because they can "get away with it"? Sponsors have been doing that for a while now regarding spam and they get blasted left and right for "doing anything for money".

Chris when you have a minute today can you ICQ me please, thanks.

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#31

06-08-2005, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by kristin

Thanks for the support Lenny and you are right about BAB ... it's not the typical boob site and there is VERY little sex that even takes place.

This whole 2257 thing boils down to trial and error. We prefer to not be the error and are taking the conservative approach. We are a smaller company and have a lot at risk. With Chris and I running this and being married with two very young boys, it's not something we care to take lightly.

When a webmaster asks for ID's we see it as two things (whether you are US or not):
1. We respect our models and when they agreed to shoot for us there was never any mention of having ID's online and I'm not about to give some random webmaster personal information about our girls.

2. When it's your head on the chopping block and you could go to jail for five years or get nailed with fines so badly that it could take your company out ... come talk to me.

Plus the fact that this won't be seen as a paperwork error if someone gets nailed on it...it'll be an "underage model" bust that will get amazing headlines on CNN.

I know I've personally gone through the last couple days and just started yanking down even remotely questionable galleries. Kneejerk reaction perhaps, but I have more to think about then just myself. I have 4 kids and am on the PTA at my kids' school, so don't really need that kind of press.

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