2257 (again!) - grey area for non-US ?

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  • sleazybunny
    Confirmed User
    • Feb 2005
    • 239
    #1

    2257 (again!) - grey area for non-US ?

    Hi,
    I've been following the new 2257 changes with interest. For content producers in the US it seems pretty clear cut what they must do. For content producers outside the US who sell to US "secondary producers" I start getting confused. Also for "secondary producers" who host their content in the US but are not actually based in the US, i guess the rules have to be followed too. Anything hosted outside of US does not have to comply?

    Any clarifiaction much appreciated
    I.
    Tags: None
    • exportyourbiz-com
      Confirmed User
      • May 2005
      • 141
      #2
      I can answer your second question

      Where you host doesn't matter.

      If you are a non-US citizen the laws don't apply to you, even if you host in the US. You still have a risk in the host shutting you down though, but that's their decision, not the DOJ's.

        Comment

        • sleazybunny
          Confirmed User
          • Feb 2005
          • 239
          #3
          Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
          If you are a non-US citizen the laws don't apply to you, even if you host in the US. You still have a risk in the host shutting you down though, but that's their decision, not the DOJ's.
          Thanks for the info.

          Really? Seems odd, that it depends wether I'm a US citizen or not. I thought most laws when applied to internet issues mainly came down to where the content was hosted. So if I lived in country A, but hosted in country B, and my site was legal in A, but not B, then I could expect it to be shut down in B pretty quickly. In this situation they couldn't do that cuz I'm a citizen of country A???

          So if I lived and worked in the US but retained non-US citizenship I'd be fine!!!
          Crazy...
          I.

            Comment

            • DamageX
              Marketing & Strategy
              • Jun 2001
              • 14293
              #4
              Originally posted by ianonlytease
              Thanks for the info.

              Really? Seems odd, that it depends wether I'm a US citizen or not. I thought most laws when applied to internet issues mainly came down to where the content was hosted. So if I lived in country A, but hosted in country B, and my site was legal in A, but not B, then I could expect it to be shut down in B pretty quickly. In this situation they couldn't do that cuz I'm a citizen of country A???

              So if I lived and worked in the US but retained non-US citizenship I'd be fine!!!
              Crazy...
              I.
              I doubt it it's that simple. I'm pretty sure that, although the DOJ might not primarily go after sites owned by foreign citizens but hosted in the US, they'd still want their hosting landscape to comply with the regulations. That being said, it would most likely take a hell of a lot of resources to do so. In other words, they might not go after non-US owned sites after all. But then again, this is mere speculation and that's as much as I'm willing to debate about this.
              Whitehat is for chumps

              If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                Comment

                • Diligent
                  Confirmed User
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 1594
                  #5
                  Yes, this is indeed crazy shit...

                  2257 is clearly not shaped by people with relevant knowledge in technology or the industry...

                  I think they think it's a clever & covert way of "curbing the proliferation of porn" online - like the spam hitting peoples email accounts will stop with this.. lol

                  Fucking asskissing a large portion of voters is what this is
                  ~¤~ MORE MONEY ~¤~ VOD? XoD! ~¤~
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                    Comment

                    • Matt_WildCash
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 1699
                      #6
                      I do not see them going after US hosting of foregin companies. and if they do move your shit to the EU. I personally think they care less about foregin companies and hosting and will target the people on their own soil.

                      Try the New XMovies.com and make more $$$ with your Traffic

                        Comment

                        • exportyourbiz-com
                          Confirmed User
                          • May 2005
                          • 141
                          #7
                          The problem with going after non-US citizens with US hosting is that neither the host nor the government have the resources to fly around the world inspecting documents of foreign webmasters.

                            Comment

                            • Spankys Teens
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2005
                              • 1414
                              #8
                              This is the first time i aint jealous of being an american....way to go europe (.) (.)
                              Banners - Design - TGP & more
                              Trade: Teenies In Action
                              icq: 256664696

                                Comment

                                • maxxxxx
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jul 2003
                                  • 646
                                  #9
                                  Spankys Teens, but don't go to Germany. There are some of the most ridiculous laws you can imagine when it comes to adult websites.


                                  ****Teen Harbour**** - Home of Little Caprice
                                  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penisses, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship.

                                    Comment

                                    • Lee
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Aug 2002
                                      • 2977
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                      The problem with going after non-US citizens with US hosting is that neither the host nor the government have the resources to fly around the world inspecting documents of foreign webmasters.
                                      Nor the necessary legal right to do so.

                                        Comment

                                        • the real magoo
                                          So Fucking Banned
                                          • Sep 2001
                                          • 1637
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                          The problem with going after non-US citizens with US hosting is that neither the host nor the government have the resources to fly around the world inspecting documents of foreign webmasters.
                                          They don´t have to.
                                          They just tell the hosting company to shut down your site.

                                            Comment

                                            • GatorB
                                              The Demon & 12clicks
                                              • Oct 2001
                                              • 18208
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                              The problem with going after non-US citizens with US hosting is that neither the host nor the government have the resources to fly around the world inspecting documents of foreign webmasters.
                                              They don't have to go anywhere. If the DOJ goes to a website hosted in the US by a non-US citizen and that site doesn't even have a 2257 page on it then they are in non-compliance. The DOJ can in fact order that the site be shut down.

                                              If you are a non-US citizen the laws don't apply to you, even if you host in the US. You still have a risk in the host shutting you down though, but that's their decision, not the DOJ's.
                                              So do you want to risk having your site shut down and losing everything and having to start over from scratch? Seems if you are a non-US webmaster and you wish not to comply you'd better be looking for non-US hosting solutions NOW.

                                                Comment

                                                • MaDalton
                                                  I am Amazing Content!
                                                  • Feb 2004
                                                  • 39861
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by maxxxxx
                                                  Spankys Teens, but don't go to Germany. There are some of the most ridiculous laws you can imagine when it comes to adult websites.
                                                  haha, true. if you think 2257 is evil then imagine your surfers go to the post office and sign a verfication paper that they are above 18 to receive an USB dongle to access porn sites.
                                                  AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003
                                                  Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites
                                                  Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you!
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                                                    Comment

                                                    • exportyourbiz-com
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 141
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by GatorB
                                                      So do you want to risk having your site shut down and losing everything and having to start over from scratch? Seems if you are a non-US webmaster and you wish not to comply you'd better be looking for non-US hosting solutions NOW.
                                                      Isn't this crusade getting a bit tired by now?

                                                      They can't inspect your records to verify whether they are filed correctly, filed incorrectly or don't exist at all.

                                                      I'll say it again.. US LAWS DO NOT APPLY TO NON-US WEBMASTERS.

                                                      Switching hosts isn't the end of the world. How is it 'starting from scratch'?

                                                      Non-US webmasters have an advantage, learn to live with the fact please.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • exportyourbiz-com
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • May 2005
                                                          • 141
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by the real magoo
                                                          They don´t have to.
                                                          They just tell the hosting company to shut down your site.
                                                          For what reasons?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • the real magoo
                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                              • Sep 2001
                                                              • 1637
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                                              For what reasons?
                                                              American companies have to comply with american laws

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Diligent
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                  • 1594
                                                                  #17
                                                                  I'm in Europe but that doesn't mean I don't give a fuck about these things...

                                                                  First of all I'm not enough of an asshole to think "suits them, they voted for morons"..
                                                                  and secondly, this is unjustly regulation of businesses & morality... Yep, 2257 is outright immoral!

                                                                  Personally though, I'm hosted both in the US & Europe so if I forget to be compliant with a US-hosted site I'm just switching it over to Europe.

                                                                  So yes... most outside the US have a few more choices.
                                                                  ~¤~ MORE MONEY ~¤~ VOD? XoD! ~¤~
                                                                  ~¤~ ICQ# 9828 2461 ~¤~

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • GatorB
                                                                      The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                      • 18208
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                                                      Isn't this crusade getting a bit tired by now?

                                                                      They can't inspect your records to verify whether they are filed correctly, filed incorrectly or don't exist at all.

                                                                      I'll say it again.. US LAWS DO NOT APPLY TO NON-US WEBMASTERS.

                                                                      Switching hosts isn't the end of the world. How is it 'starting from scratch'?

                                                                      Non-US webmasters have an advantage, learn to live with the fact please.
                                                                      WTF is your deal? There is no crusade. Try READING my post and a litel less hating. Maybe you don't understand how my government works. If YOUR site is hosted in the US and they want is shut down FOR ANY REASON, they can do it. Do you think the US government CARES whether or not you "have" to comply? If your site gets shut down WTF are you going to do about it SUE the US?

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • directfiesta
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                          • 30136
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                                                          Isn't this crusade getting a bit tired by now?

                                                                          .
                                                                          GatorB is to 2257 what Lou Dobbs is to illegals :



                                                                          OBSESSED!
                                                                          Last edited by directfiesta; 06-07-2005, 05:54 AM.
                                                                          I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                          But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • directfiesta
                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                                              • 30136
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by Just-Anotha-Mack
                                                                              I'm in Europe but that doesn't mean I don't give a fuck about these things...

                                                                              First of all I'm not enough of an asshole to think "suits them, they voted for morons"..
                                                                              and secondly, this is unjustly regulation of businesses & morality... Yep, 2257 is outright immoral!

                                                                              Personally though, I'm hosted both in the US & Europe so if I forget to be compliant with a US-hosted site I'm just switching it over to Europe.

                                                                              So yes... most outside the US have a few more choices.
                                                                              BINGO !!! one that is prepared. I did that 2-3 motns ago...

                                                                              If I loose the US mirror, not long to set one up in Canada with rvsync .
                                                                              I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                              But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • GatorB
                                                                                  The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                  • 18208
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                                                  GatorB is to 2257 what Lou Dobbs in to illegals :



                                                                                  OBSESSED!

                                                                                  Get over your crap and actually READ what I wrote in repsonse the the post I quoted. Let me try again .

                                                                                  You are a non-US person hosting IN the US. Now because you don't "have" to comply you don't bother put a 2257 page on your site. After all WHY would you if 2257 doesn't have anything to do with you? Now the DOJ sees your site they SEE that you don't have the 2257 link on your site. That to them is a violation. REPEAT not to ME but to THEM, the DOJ. the DOJ doesn't give a fuck what YOU think. Now they find out the host of YOUR site is based in the US. They go to the host and say "Shut this site down they are violating 2257". Host says "But they aren't American" DOJ says "We don't give a fuck if you don't shut it down we'll shut you down". Now WTF do you think your US host is going to do? This whole law is about getting rid of porn. If they can get a site shut down they will doesn't matter who owns it.

                                                                                  If you think the same country that invaded Iraq with ZERO proof of WMDs can't shut your US hosted site down then you are very stupid.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • exportyourbiz-com
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2005
                                                                                      • 141
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by the real magoo
                                                                                      American companies have to comply with american laws
                                                                                      They can't check if they are in violation of those laws if they can't inspect the records.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • exportyourbiz-com
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • May 2005
                                                                                          • 141
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                          Now because you don't "have" to comply you don't bother put a 2257 page on your site. After all WHY would you if 2257 doesn't have anything to do with you? Now the DOJ sees your site they SEE that you don't have the 2257 link on your site.
                                                                                          The simple solution is to have the 2257 link on your site, they can't inspect the records there anyways.

                                                                                          You have been told this time and time again.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • FilthyRob
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Feb 2004
                                                                                              • 6741
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              damn I hate this 2257 stuff
                                                                                              AKA - Clubsexy

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • GatorB
                                                                                                  The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                                  • 18208
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                                                                                  The simple solution is to have the 2257 link on your site, they can't inspect the records there anyways.
                                                                                                  Since you are 100% sure you don't have to comply exactly which % of non-US webmasters will bother to do this. That is my point. There are going to be SOME % of non-US webmasters that are hosted in the US that will do NOTHING. These are the people that are at risk for getting shut down and to whom I have been refering about this whole thread.

                                                                                                  You have been told this time and time again.
                                                                                                  Listen dude I don't know what your issue is, but your hatred of me is totally blinding you to my point. Get over it. I'm TRYING to be nice. YOU try now.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • GatorB
                                                                                                      The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                                                      • 18208
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by exportyourbiz-com
                                                                                                      They can't check if they are in violation of those laws if they can't inspect the records.
                                                                                                      Not having a 2257 page is a violation in of itself. If they see you are not a US citizen and you hosting is not in the US and you domain is not through a US registrar no they aren't going to bother with you most likely. It doesn't mean that in THEIR eyes you aren't inviolation. Which has been my whole point since I first ever commented on 2257 which you Euros have been reaming out over. THEIR point of view, not MINE, but THIERS.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • directfiesta
                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                                                          • 30136
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                                          Get over your crap and actually READ what I wrote in repsonse the the post I quoted. Let me try again .

                                                                                                          .

                                                                                                          I just said you were " obsessed" that's all ... and sounded like Lou Dobbs ( every evening, one after the other : illegal immigrants ... )

                                                                                                          I agree with not being " safe " if you host in the US . I even think that processing is also an issue : Look at my post and my sig...

                                                                                                          And relax ... It is a shakedown
                                                                                                          I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                                          But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • mikeyddddd
                                                                                                              Viva la vulva!
                                                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                                                              • 16557
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                                              If you think the same country that invaded Iraq with ZERO proof of WMDs can't shut your US hosted site down then you are very stupid.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • GatorB
                                                                                                                  The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                  • 18208
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                                                                                  I just said you were " obsessed" that's all ... and sounded like Lou Dobbs ( every evening, one after the other : illegal immigrants ... )
                                                                                                                  I happen to agre with him on that.

                                                                                                                  I agree with not being " safe " if you host in the US . I even think that processing is also an issue : Look at my post and my sig...

                                                                                                                  And relax ... It is a shakedown
                                                                                                                  Hard to relax when I have 30 people calling me idiot for no good reason because they fail to actually take the time to UNDERSTAND my POV. No offense but Euros have coniptions when they think some American is trying to tell them what to do. Which I wasn't. And all logic and reasoning and appearantly civility go out the window.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • the real magoo
                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                      • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                      • 1637
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                                                      If you think the same country that invaded Iraq with ZERO proof of WMDs can't shut your US hosted site down then you are very stupid.
                                                                                                                      ROFL

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • sleazybunny
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Feb 2005
                                                                                                                          • 239
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          ..back to some info..

                                                                                                                          ..well thanks for some feedback and enlightenment. What I suspected is what has arisen here, and I've also seen test cases in US and Europe on libel/slander where the host has been forced to remove the site etc, even though they aren't breaking the law, get's into the messy area of who is publishing what. So where do "secondary" producers fit in?
                                                                                                                          Eg: I host a TGP in the US, I have a 2257 statement on the site, am I still expected to get the ID off of each of the providers of content for the TGP?? that's a lof of ID each day!!! How can they really enforce that, content changes so often? One day I could have all the content on the TGP that is illegal by 2257 and the next day I may have all the ID's???

                                                                                                                          any clarification would be interesting
                                                                                                                          Thanks..
                                                                                                                          I.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • BRISK
                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                              • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                              • 12240
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Summary:

                                                                                                                              Having non-US hosting is probably safer than US hosting

                                                                                                                              Having a 2257 page (even if you don't keep any records) that says the info is at [insert non-US address here], is probably safer than not having a 2257 page at all, because US authorities can't search a non-US address to see if the documentation is being kept.

                                                                                                                              Having a lawyer advise you is probably better than reading GFY
                                                                                                                              I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                                                                                                              I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • GatorB
                                                                                                                                  The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 18208
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by ianonlytease
                                                                                                                                  ..well thanks for some feedback and enlightenment. What I suspected is what has arisen here, and I've also seen test cases in US and Europe on libel/slander where the host has been forced to remove the site etc, even though they aren't breaking the law, get's into the messy area of who is publishing what. So where do "secondary" producers fit in?
                                                                                                                                  Eg: I host a TGP in the US, I have a 2257 statement on the site, am I still expected to get the ID off of each of the providers of content for the TGP?? that's a lof of ID each day!!! How can they really enforce that, content changes so often? One day I could have all the content on the TGP that is illegal by 2257 and the next day I may have all the ID's???

                                                                                                                                  any clarification would be interesting
                                                                                                                                  Thanks..
                                                                                                                                  I.
                                                                                                                                  If you have a TEXT based TGP and you don't have any sexually explicit content on your site then you don't need 2257 statement. If you linking to someone elses gallery that has sexually explicit content on it. It's THEIR obligation to have the 2257 info.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • GatorB
                                                                                                                                      The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                                      • 18208
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by BRISK
                                                                                                                                      Summary:
                                                                                                                                      Having a 2257 page (even if you don't keep any records) that says the info is at [insert non-US address here], is probably safer than not having a 2257 page at all, because US authorities can't search a non-US address to see if the documentation is being kept.
                                                                                                                                      Which would take all of 5 minutes to do, but how many will even bother?

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • BRISK
                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                          • 12240
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                                                                          Which would take all of 5 minutes to do, but how many will even bother?
                                                                                                                                          I agree, not many people will. Which is amazing considering how simple it would be to put up a dummy 2257 page.
                                                                                                                                          I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                                                                                                                          I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • just a punk
                                                                                                                                              So fuckin' bored
                                                                                                                                              • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                              • 32393
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by ianonlytease
                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                              I've been following the new 2257 changes with interest. For content producers in the US it seems pretty clear cut what they must do. For content producers outside the US who sell to US "secondary producers" I start getting confused. Also for "secondary producers" who host their content in the US but are not actually based in the US, i guess the rules have to be followed too. Anything hosted outside of US does not have to comply?

                                                                                                                                              Any clarifiaction much appreciated
                                                                                                                                              I.
                                                                                                                                              If your company is not based in the USA, and your hosting is also locared outside that country - YOU DON'T HAVE to comply 2257. This is a GREAT time from EU hosting companies (see sig )
                                                                                                                                              Obey the Cowgod

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • missnat
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                                  • 127
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  yes this is crazy, but I dont own any "teen" sites and I live in europe, so it doesnt disturb me, only disturbs my buisness with paranoid webmasters
                                                                                                                                                  WE BUILD YOUR NICHE TGP!! 1 SPOT OPEN! ICQ 211286670
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                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • BRISK
                                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2003
                                                                                                                                                      • 12240
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      There is a difference between not complying with 2257 and not having a 2257 page/link on your websites.

                                                                                                                                                      Think about it.
                                                                                                                                                      I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                                                                                                                                      I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • NTSS
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2005
                                                                                                                                                          • 5688
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Remember the fight has just begun
                                                                                                                                                          ICQ: 150-803-430
                                                                                                                                                          Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)net

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • loverboy
                                                                                                                                                              When it rains, it pours
                                                                                                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                              • 20609
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              this is just the start of 2257, expect more to come

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • wjxxx
                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                                                                                                  • 4448
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by GatorB
                                                                                                                                                                  If you think the same country that invaded Iraq with ZERO proof of WMDs can't shut your US hosted site down then you are very stupid.

                                                                                                                                                                  hahahahaha
                                                                                                                                                                  You are

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

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