Conservatives: what does your ideal state look like?

[Libertine]

I've always wondered about this. What would you, ideally, want your country to look like politically? (keeping in mind the realities of life, ofcourse)

[2HousePlague]

j-

[tradermcduck]

Originally Posted by punkworld

I've always wondered about this. What would you, ideally, want your country to look like politically? (keeping in mind the realities of life, ofcourse)

Maybe a mix of North Korea and Vatican ?!

[kernelpanic]

Less government interference, less taxes, less goofy social programs, less micromanagement of society. Government should worry about protecting people from those that would hurt them, (providing common defense), and building infrastructure that no private entity would (roads, education, and municipal utilities). Beyond that, it would keep its hands out of others' affairs.

[GigoloJustin]

everyone will be naked

[After Shock Media]

Government protects the borders and keeps the infrastructure in place.
Government stays out of morals and enforcement of them.
School funding is only paid by those with children.
Property tax is elliminated.
drug laws are decriminalized.
Ellimination of city police and only have sherrifs and marshals.
Ellimination of any sin tax, i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and so on.
Marriage is open to anyone willing to go down that path.

Ok I could go on, and yes I am a conservative.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Government protects the borders and keeps the infrastructure in place.
Government stays out of morals and enforcement of them.
School funding is only paid by those with children.
Property tax is elliminated.
drug laws are decriminalized.
Ellimination of city police and only have sherrifs and marshals.
Ellimination of any sin tax, i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and so on.
Marriage is open to anyone willing to go down that path.

Ok I could go on, and yes I am a conservative.

I agree with you on all counts except the school funding one. I think that since everyone receives schooling when they're young, that they should pay for schools as an adult.


Drug posession laws and sin taxes need to be abolished, since what people do with themselves is none of anyone else's business. But as soon as someone is publicly intoxicated or driving while impaired, then it does become the business of others.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Less government interference, less taxes, less goofy social programs, less micromanagement of society. Government should worry about protecting people from those that would hurt them, (providing common defense), and building infrastructure that no private entity would (roads, education, and municipal utilities). Beyond that, it would keep its hands out of others' affairs.

That's classical liberal/libertarian, not conservative. I agree with it for the most part, but it isn't conservative...

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Less government interference

in business not people's personal lives,

less taxes

for the rich. The government has to run on SOME money where is it going to come from? The poor and middle class

, less goofy social programs

You mean like paying millionaire farmers NOT to grow food?,

less micromanagement of society. Government should worry about protecting people from those that would hurt them, (providing common defense), and building infrastructure that no private entity would (roads, education, and municipal utilities). Beyond that, it would keep its hands out of others' affairs.

If you believed in everything you posted you vote libertarian not republican. Did you? Nope. Hypocrite!

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

I agree with you on all counts except the school funding one. I think that since everyone receives schooling when they're young, that they should pay for schools as an adult.


Drug posession laws and sin taxes need to be abolished, since what people do with themselves is none of anyone else's business. But as soon as someone is publicly intoxicated or driving while impaired, then it does become the business of others.

Ok then middle ground with schools. A tax break if you do not have children. See under my plan my parents would of paid taxes for school funding because they had a kid, me.

Drug laws and sin taxes sure, I did not say that breaking a driving law would be decriminalized though so DUI would remain intact.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by punkworld

That's classical liberal/libertarian, not conservative. I agree with it for the most part, but it isn't conservative...

I'm a conservative right now because of the polarization of America. Believing in a Libertarian philosophy does nothing, since the lines have been drawn as Conservative/Liberal, and I don't want to live in a country run by the future visions of the Democratic party. I also don't agree with the libertarians on all issues, since some of their policies really hit a bad nerve with me, especially over immigration.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Government protects the borders and keeps the infrastructure in place.
Government stays out of morals and enforcement of them.
School funding is only paid by those with children.
Property tax is elliminated.
drug laws are decriminalized.
Ellimination of city police and only have sherrifs and marshals.
Ellimination of any sin tax, i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and so on.
Marriage is open to anyone willing to go down that path.

Ok I could go on, and yes I am a conservative.

no minimum wage and monopolies as well, right?

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

If you believed in everything you posted you vote libertarian not republican. Did you? Nope. Hypocrite!

Unfortunately, in our polarized society, a Libertarian vote is a wasted vote. I'm happy voting for whoever can feasibly stop the liberals.

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

I'm a conservative right now because of the polarization of America. Believing in a Libertarian philosophy does nothing, since the lines have been drawn as Conservative/Liberal, and I don't want to live in a country run by the future visions of the Democratic party. I also don't agree with the libertarians on all issues, since some of their policies really hit a bad nerve with me, especially over immigration.

Hmm, this country is based on immigration

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Drug posession laws and sin taxes need to be abolished, since what people do with themselves is none of anyone else's business. But as soon as someone is publicly intoxicated or driving while impaired, then it does become the business of others.

Well let's see someone CHOOSE to smoke for 40 years despite knowing the dangers then when they are 65 they get lung cancer and guess who foots the bill for their treatment? ME the taxpayer. So you want to ge rid of "sin taxes" fine. Then if you choose activities and actions you know will lead to disease later YOU foot the bill not everyone else. I have no problem having a person who smokes contributing funds to their eventual medical care.

As far a as drug. Druggies are adrain to society. i've seen fist hand a druggie effect have on thier children they bring into the world. No jail often does no good as I have seen first hand and jails are already crowded. Simple solution build a reservation type area out west where all those that wish to be druggies can go live and go kill themselves slowly and let the rest of society alone.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Hmm, this country is based on immigration

Immigration in itself is not a problem. Open borders and complete chaos is a problem. There needs to be a sane system in place to ensure that criminals and others who will only strain the system will not be allowed in. I'm not opposed to immigration, unless it causes problems for the people already living in the country.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Unfortunately, in our polarized society, a Libertarian vote is a wasted vote. I'm happy voting for whoever can feasibly stop the liberals.

If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You're thinking is why we get 2 crappy choices every 4 years. You conservative "friends" are really doing you favors with their COPA, 2257 and .xxx shit aren't they? "Adult Webmasters For Bush " would be like "Jews For Hitler"

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Well let's see someone CHOOSE to smoke for 40 years despite knowing the dangers then when they are 65 they get lung cancer and guess who foots the bill for their treatment? ME the taxpayer. So you want to ge rid of "sin taxes" fine. Then if you choose activities and actions you know will lead to disease later YOU foot the bill not everyone else. I have no problem having a person who smokes contributing funds to their eventual medical care.

I don't believe in sin taxes, because I also don't believe its the job of the government or other taxpayers to foot the bill for somone's stupidity.

By definition, a sin tax is a tax on socially undesirable behaviors. Some jurisdictions have pornography taxes, which are sin taxes. Since when is it the job of the government to use a carrot and stick method to guide people's decisions for what they do with their own money?

Originally Posted by GatorB

As far a as drug. Druggies are adrain to society. i've seen fist hand a druggie effect have on thier children they bring into the world. No jail often does no good as I have seen first hand and jails are already crowded. Simple solution build a reservation type area out west where all those that wish to be druggies can go live and go kill themselves slowly and let the rest of society alone.

Its not drug users which cause problems, its drug abusers. There are many people who use illegal drugs responsibly, and don't create problems.

Jailing drug users does nothing. The problem of addiction still remains.

Besides, drugs caused less problems before we had a prohibition on them.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

no minimum wage and monopolies as well, right?

I am on fence about mimimum wages, I am pretty sure they would take care of themselves yet I do not fully trust business to do the right thing.
Monopolies are fine as long as they occure in a free competition enviroment, hell we already have monopolies.

[devilspost]

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Hmm, this country is based on immigration

LEGAL immigration. we can't have just EVERYONE come live here that wants to. Our society can't handle that and frankly those that play by the rules and wait their turn should get the benefits of being an American citizen. if you can't even obey out simplest laws why in the fuck do I want you here?

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. You're thinking is why we get 2 crappy choices every 4 years. You conservative "friends" are really doing you favors with their COPA, 2257 and .xxx shit aren't they? "Adult Webmasters For Bush " would be like "Jews For Hitler"

I don't like Bush or any of the other religious right, so don't label them as "my friends".

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

I'm a conservative right now because of the polarization of America. Believing in a Libertarian philosophy does nothing, since the lines have been drawn as Conservative/Liberal, and I don't want to live in a country run by the future visions of the Democratic party. I also don't agree with the libertarians on all issues, since some of their policies really hit a bad nerve with me, especially over immigration.

I used the word "conservative" instead of "republican" because I was referring to ideology rather than voting behaviour. But what you're saying is that you don't follow conservative ideology, but are leaning towards classical liberalism and voted republican because of that?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I am on fence about mimimum wages, I am pretty sure they would take care of themselves yet I do not fully trust business to do the right thing.
Monopolies are fine as long as they occure in a free competition enviroment, hell we already have monopolies.

The reason there is a minimum wage is because business weren't doing the right thing. You hate people on food staps and welfare now. Get rid of the minimum wage and when people are making $3 and hour watch how much larger the welfare rolls get.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Government protects the borders and keeps the infrastructure in place.
Government stays out of morals and enforcement of them.
School funding is only paid by those with children.
Property tax is elliminated.
drug laws are decriminalized.
Ellimination of city police and only have sherrifs and marshals.
Ellimination of any sin tax, i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and so on.
Marriage is open to anyone willing to go down that path.

Ok I could go on, and yes I am a conservative.

Why do you consider yourself a conservative?

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I am on fence about mimimum wages, I am pretty sure they would take care of themselves yet I do not fully trust business to do the right thing.
Monopolies are fine as long as they occure in a free competition enviroment, hell we already have monopolies.

Minimum wages cut jobs. A business exists to make money, and if you set a minimum standard for "what labor is worth", then many jobs worth slightly below what that standard is will be eliminated. When minimum wages go up, many jobs worth no more than the old minimum wage rate get cut. This does affect those who need those jobs the most.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by GatorB

The reason there is a minimum wage is because business weren't doing the right thing. You hate people on food staps and welfare now. Get rid of the minimum wage and when people are making $3 and hour watch how much larger the welfare rolls get.

I know and reason I am on fence about it. I do notice though not every job is paying minimum wage when that is all they would have to.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by punkworld

I used the word "conservative" instead of "republican" because I was referring to ideology rather than voting behaviour. But what you're saying is that you don't follow conservative ideology, but are leaning towards classical liberalism and voted republican because of that?

I agree with conservative positions much more often than I do liberal positions, and in America today, those are the only two realistic choices available to voters.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

I don't like Bush or any of the other religious right, so don't label them as "my friends".

But you vote for them.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by punkworld

Why do you consider yourself a conservative?

Conservative got a bad word attached to it now since it was hyjacked by the right wing.
I am and have always been for less government and more personal responsibility.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

But you vote for them.

Still better than Kerry, who would have been the bane of ALL taxpayers. For fuck's sake, his spending proposals were out of control, and would have hit all taxpayers hard, especially the most successful. Kerry was a Massachusetts liberal out of touch with America.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Conservative got a bad word attached to it now since it was hyjacked by the right wing.
I am and have always been for less government and more personal responsibility.

Thank you. The religious right does not speak for all conservatives.

Besides, politics is about comprimise, and if everyone voted for the candidate that best represented their personal views, the winner would have a plurality in the single or low double digits. Voters must instead select the most qualified candidate who has a chance of winning - basically, who will leave their constituents the best off after their term is over.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Conservative got a bad word attached to it now since it was hyjacked by the right wing.
I am and have always been for less government and more personal responsibility.

It isn't entirely true that the term conservatism was hijacked by the right wing. You see, conservatism has always been opposed to rapid social change, and has always been in favour of tradition and conservation of traditional values and institutions.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I know and reason I am on fence about it. I do notice though not every job is paying minimum wage when that is all they would have to.

Then what's teh problem. See conservatives try to have it both ways. They say if you raise minimum wage jobs will be lost. Yet then they say so few people make minimum wage very few people will benefit from a raise so why do it? Well which is it? Also the myth that minimum wage increases increases inflation. well teh minimum wage was increase in 1996 and 1997, wage was the inflation? where was the unemployment. Seems like we had the best economy is 50 years around that time.

The reason why minimum age increase potentially hurt samll busineses is that increases are contantly put off until they can't be put off anymore and then they have to be raised by HUGE amounts. Well whose fault is that? REPUBLICANS. Minimum age is NOT going away. Anyone who proposes eliminating minimum wage will LOSE an election. So the best solution is what Florida is now, doing ANNUAL minimum wage increases tied to inflation. A small increase that you know for sure is coming every year is much easier to prepare for than a HUGE increase once every 7-10 years you never when it's coming and you pray never comes, but always does.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Kerry was a Massachusetts liberal out of touch with America.

That is a right wing talking point from Rush Limbaugh, not something you thought up yourself and it doesn't mean anything. Massachusetts is part of America and Kerry represents a lot more Americans than you do - they vote for him over and over again!

Many people vote for the right wing because they are told to by the media, even though they disagree with almost everything the right wing does.

It's common even on GFY.

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

That is a right wing talking point from Rush Limbaugh, not something you thought up yourself and it doesn't mean anything. Massachusetts is part of America and Kerry represents a lot more Americans than you do - they vote for him over and over again!

Many people vote for the right wing because they are told to by the media, even though they disagree with almost everything the right wing does.

It's common even on GFY.

Kerry stands for universal healthcare, expansion of nonprivate social security, expansion of welfare, raising the minimum wage, yeilding US soverignty to the UN, and other big spending, big government programs. Ugh.


Next candidate please.

[GatorB]

[QUOTE=kernelpanic]Still better than Kerry, who would have been the bane of ALL taxpayers. [quote]

How? Kerry said he wouldn't raise taxes. Not that he could since it's CONGRESS that has the power to do that and last time I checked it was controlled by republicans who I greatly doubt would have passed ANY tax increase proposal by Kerry.

For fuck's sake, his spending proposals were out of control, and would have hit all taxpayers hard, especially the most successful.

Like Bush isn't running up a debt.

Kerry was a Massachusetts liberal out of touch with America.

I see you drank the kool-aid of the GOP. Keep believing that shit. This is coming from a former republican that left the party because the religious right hi-jacked it. If Bush is so in touch how come he has 43% apporval rating?

If Kerry was President there wouldn't be any new 2257 rule.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Kerry stands for universal healthcare, expansion of nonprivate social security, expansion of welfare, raising the minimum wage, yeilding US soverignty to the UN, and other big spending, big government programs. Ugh.


Next candidate please.

You do realize that any of the things would have to be approved by CONGRESS. How likely is it that a republican controlled House and Senate would approve ANY of those things? Try THINKING, dude.

See ONE party rule sucks. How'd it work for Nazi Germany, the USSR or Iraq?

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Like Bush isn't running up a debt.

Bush is running up a massive debt, and I hope whoever comes after him will be able to effectively clean up the damage.

Originally Posted by GatorB

I see you drank the kool-aid of the GOP. Keep believing that shit. This is coming from a former republican that left the party because the religious right hi-jacked it. If Bush is so in touch how come he has 43% apporval rating?

If Kerry was President there wouldn't be any new 2257 rule.

Bush sucks, Kerry would have been worse. Bush's waste wouldn't have been long lasting, but if Kerry would have been elected, his proposals would have become entrenched, as the people who they redistributed money to would have become dependant on them.

Its unfortunate that voting now comes down to which one of the major party candidates is less of a fucktard.

[theking]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Hmm, this country is based on immigration

The "is" should be changed to "was".

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

but if Kerry would have been elected, his proposals would have become entrenched, as the people who they redistributed money to would have become dependant on them.

Do yo know how the US government works? Kerry wouldn't be KING and his proposals are law. The President either vetos or signs legislation passed by CONGRESS. Since the House AND the Senate are both controlled by republicans, show me ONE fo those things that a republican controlled Conress would have passed to begin with.

The reason why things got done in the late 90's and we had a surplus is because the Congress was one party and the White House was another party, and they had to COMPROMISE. Thus the lunatics on both sides lost their vioces.

[kernelpanic]

Everyone also remember that the immigration which America was built on was controlled and sane, unlike the chaotic borders of today.

Anyone ever heard of Ellis island, Angel island, et al?

[kernelpanic]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Do yo know how the US government works? Kerry wouldn't be KING and his proposals are law. The President either vetos or signs legislation passed by CONGRESS. Since the House AND the Senate are both controlled by republicans, show me ONE fo those things that a republican controlled Conress would have passed to begin with.

The reason why things got done in the late 90's and we had a surplus is because the Congress was one party and the White House was another party, and they had to COMPROMISE. Thus the lunatics on both sides lost their vioces.

Yes, I do understand how the US government works, but I do not want a president sympathetic to such proposals, especially if the house should be won by Democrats in the 2006 off year election.

The president of the United States commands more PR power than anyone else in the world, and Kerry having a pulpit from which to preach his socialist agenda, especially in a narrowly divided America, could prove disasterous.

[Libertine]

If you wonder what your political position is compared to the posititions of both Bush and Kerry you can just look here:
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...uselection.php
And after that you can do the text:
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...stionnaire.php


However, I wasn't really asking about that. Any real conservatives who want to share their vision of what the state should look like?

[ProPorn]

I believe most Americans are pretty libertarian, especially those mistakenly calling themselves conservatives, but this whole 2-party game is rigged and instead of doing anything about that we just pick teams and cheer like idiots. The vast libertarian majority is forced to choose between their wallets and their conscience.

[FilthyRob]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

j-

damn reality sucks

[haig]

i'm a consarvative man!
i want to live with my costom.
some people are so sutupit, they are want to be like other nation, i hate from them.
in adition some difarant nation spoiling our custom, i never want this thinks.
i dont want to bad Moral,actualy you know, olso i'm adult webmaster. but this is only my busines.
i never want bad morals.
if i did mistake sorry for this. thats only my idea & wishes...

[JJ Gold]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Government protects the borders and keeps the infrastructure in place.
Government stays out of morals and enforcement of them.
School funding is only paid by those with children.
Property tax is elliminated.
drug laws are decriminalized.
Ellimination of city police and only have sherrifs and marshals.
Ellimination of any sin tax, i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and so on.
Marriage is open to anyone willing to go down that path.

Ok I could go on, and yes I am a conservative.

I am on the next flight!

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Yes, I do understand how the US government works, but I do not want a president sympathetic to such proposals,

You rather have a Pres sympatheic with people trying to put you out of busines or even in jail?

especially if the house should be won by Democrats in the 2006 off year election.

Please give me ANY indicator that would let you to belevie this will be the case. Republicans GAINED ground in 2004.

The president of the United States commands more PR power than anyone else in the world, and Kerry having a pulpit from which to preach his socialist agenda, especially in a narrowly divided America, could prove disasterous.

Vs Bush and his agenda?

You KNOW you are libertarian. Next time vote that way. That's the only way things will change. Otherwise don't bitch about the circumstance YOU helped to create.

So what if Kerry got elected and fucked thing up in 2008 people will vote him out. If it wasn't for 9-11 Bush would have been voted out. IF thing keeps going down the toilet do you think the republican nominee has a chance in 2008? Why in the fuck do you think JEB Bush isn't running. He KNOWS his bro is big fuck up and he KNOWS that HE( menaning Jeb ) will be seen as a fuck up too. Think baout it this wasy. Does Jeb or GW or their daddy REALLY wants the repubs to win in 2008 if Jeb isn't running? No of course not. WHY? Because then that means Jeb can't run in 2012 and he'll have to wait until 2016. Geroge Sr wants to see Jeb as Pres before he dies in 2016 Geroge Sr willl be 92. You know how many US Pres have lived to at least 92? TWO.

[GatorB]

School funding is only paid by those with children.

That's stupid. If our society was full of illiterates would EVERYONE suffer from it? Yes. If our society were full of well educated children does EVERYONE benefit? yep. When companies look to move into an area one of the areas the look at it the quality of the schools. Good schools mean compamies move in and provide paychecks for all sorts of people even those WITHOUT kids. Good schools in your area mean your house is worth more, even if you don't have kids.