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-   -   The Dutch Voted ......... No (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=475223)

Libertine 06-01-2005 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbonzo
Whatever you say. These "businessmen" sit on advisory boards to the German Finance Ministry.

Nevermind, you obviously have much better sources for your info.
There really is no point, but I'll try to enlighten you anyway...
There is no simple single point which contains the entire discussion. You can talk to several Nobel Prize winners and still be wrong. Often, experts disagree with eachother, and that is even more the case when the issue at hand covers much more than a single area of expertise.
Believing that a few bankers know it all is quite naive and somewhat stupid.

sperbonzo 06-01-2005 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkworld
There really is no point, but I'll try to enlighten you anyway...
There is no simple single point which contains the entire discussion. You can talk to several Nobel Prize winners and still be wrong. Often, experts disagree with eachother, and that is even more the case when the issue at hand covers much more than a single area of expertise.
Believing that a few bankers know it all is quite naive and somewhat stupid.
Don't be silly, you can take ANY subject and find experts that disagree about it. It made sense to me, and corroborated things that I had read, but OF COURSE you can't take a single expert view on a subject as complex as this and treat it as gospel

My only point in my first response to the people that dismissed it so easily was to show that this wasn't something I just came up with. It's basis was with people who really are experts in the subject. To utterly dismiss what these men had to say out of hand would be just as niave and stupid :2 cents:

polish_aristocrat 06-01-2005 01:54 PM
I am an expert in International Relations, I can give a long, detailed answer to this thread for $100...

Rich 06-01-2005 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbonzo
Well, with a few personal exceptions, I DO dispise the French...but for lots of other reasons involving their hypocrasy, overinflated egos, racism, rudeness, etc, etc.....

However, I didn't dispise them for voting "no" (please review my post), I just thought that they were making a mistake,

I also think that the Dutch are making a mistake. I think that it is symptomatic of some major cultural issues facing the EU that will cause them quite a few problems in the next 20 years or so in dealing with the international market with any kind of united front. I was having dinner with several execs from some large German banks in Munich some months ago and they were lamenting over the same thing.

It will also mean, I believe, that the EU, because of these issues will be far less competative with the US than they could be.... and that's good for the US. :2 cents: so again.... :thumbsup
.

Don't you understand that what's good for bankers isn't good for 99.9% of the population? Do you think NAFTA helped guys in the US who work (lol, used to work) assembly lines? Give your head a shake man, not everyone is a banker. Unless you're in the top .1% of the people, many millions of dollars liquid, you're a fool for siding with the unregulated free trade policies of the globalists. :2 cents:

sperbonzo 06-01-2005 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Don't you understand that what's good for bankers isn't good for 99.9% of the population? Do you think NAFTA helped guys in the US who work (lol, used to work) assembly lines? Give your head a shake man, not everyone is a banker. Unless you're in the top .1% of the people, many millions of dollars liquid, you're a fool for siding with the unregulated free trade policies of the globalists. :2 cents:
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that the view point that you hold will keep more third world countries in poverty for FAR longer than if industries are allowed to spread freely to other markets.


In any case, I"m sure you don't agree, and this is going to get WAY too long to go into now! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Libertine 06-01-2005 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbonzo
Don't be silly, you can take ANY subject and find experts that disagree about it. It made sense to me, and corroborated things that I had read, but OF COURSE you can't take a single expert view on a subject as complex as this and treat it as gospel

My only point in my first response to the people that dismissed it so easily was to show that this wasn't something I just came up with. It's basis was with people who really are experts in the subject. To utterly dismiss what these men had to say out of hand would be just as niave and stupid :2 cents:
The reason people dismissed what you said was that it was just some empty rhetoric. What you actually said came down to:

Quote:
think that it is symptomatic of some major cultural issues facing the EU that will cause them quite a few problems in the next 20 years or so in dealing with the international market with any kind of united front.
That's so vague it isn't saying anything at all :2 cents:

hova 06-01-2005 02:12 PM
it's not a surprise

nico-t 06-01-2005 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat
I am an expert in International Relations, I can give a long, detailed answer to this thread for $100...
i can only offer you my body, is that good enough?

sperbonzo 06-01-2005 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkworld
That's so vague it isn't saying anything at all :2 cents:

That's fair.

I have periods in my day were I'm not as busy, and so I have time to post in between doing other things.

I don't have time to launch into long detailed statements involving such complex subjects, and so my posts can sometimes be read as vague. :)

polle54 06-01-2005 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanmorgan
usually with issues like this, the majority of people who actually vote on it, have little or no knowledge of it at all. Influenced by either, peers or certain media (tabloids).

Evan

you may be insulting some people but I think your right that the majority was under great influence of the tendency and the fact that a lot of people were afraid of the consequenses following when Tyrkey joins EU

I actually heard on the news that the man in front of the "no sayers" was using the the fear of the fact that muslims would have a lot of influence...
The fear has grown along with the killings of Van Gogh and all that crap... I can understand this fear but it is not all good to say no to a new constitution because of some extreme killings made by extremists....
I hope this is not the actual case and just something going around the media

polle54 06-01-2005 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nico-t
when so much people take the time to vote, i guess the majority exactly knows why they vote, something like 63% of the ppl voted... id think if ppl dont know where the hell they voting on and why, they dont show up
or they just might be too scared.... well not all of them but a lot...

Niki 06-01-2005 02:35 PM
thanks to all Dutch and French voters!

evanmorgan 06-01-2005 03:25 PM
the whole point is.....

If a government, which people dont like, want people to vote yes to an issue, people will vote against it......The same would happen in Britain

Nathan 06-01-2005 03:42 PM
You all know that all voting No does is delay the constitution for a few years and might actually get your country kicked out of the EU, right?

Only one thing good about this. The USD will rise!

Rich 06-01-2005 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polle54
you may be insulting some people but I think your right that the majority was under great influence of the tendency and the fact that a lot of people were afraid of the consequenses following when Tyrkey joins EU

I actually heard on the news that the man in front of the "no sayers" was using the the fear of the fact that muslims would have a lot of influence...
The fear has grown along with the killings of Van Gogh and all that crap... I can understand this fear but it is not all good to say no to a new constitution because of some extreme killings made by extremists....
I hope this is not the actual case and just something going around the media

There are a lot of reasons people voted against this, and you're not going to find many of them openly debated in the corporate media. France was trying to protect the wages and benefits of their working class along with their social and welfare programs. The French aren't quite yet as controlled by the corporate created world view as we in North America are, the majority of the people still believe in protecting every citizen instead of just buying into the lies that we're taught in school that greed is good and all you should care about is your own personal wealth, and that if someone is not rich it's their own fault because they're stupid or lazy.

Nathan 06-01-2005 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperbonzo
...AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT. I was just doing some reading, and the German Finance Ministry is discussing the possible failure of the EMU (European Monitary Union). Like I said, this is good for the US, but bad for the EU. :2 cents:
The reason they are discussing this is because they are trying to find an excuse why they lost a few billion euros this term.

Also, never forget, the current ruling government is trying to cause early elections, one year earlier than normal because they fear they will lose more percentage points than they have ALREADY lost in the next 300 days so they need elections fast if they want any chance to still win.
The only way to cause an early election in germany is to cause problems inside the ruling parties to make them nolonger agree together. So stuff you hear recently from germany is to be taken with much caution.

nico-t 06-01-2005 06:28 PM
yaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy!


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