2257: is that possible to hire a 3rd-party record keeper to store the electronic docs - GoFuckYourself.com

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 07:15 AM

Any suggestions?

Redrob · 05-31-2005, 07:34 AM

Yes, I believe it is ok and a good idea as an emergency backup in case of fire, pissed employees, confiscation, and the like. You'd still need copies at your place of business during the required hours. Be sure the archivist can handle a copy of the media as well.

crockett · 05-31-2005, 07:48 AM

read the law.. it says at your place of business..

Terry · 05-31-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrob

Yes, I believe it is ok and a good idea as an emergency backup in case of fire, pissed employees, confiscation, and the like. You'd still need copies at your place of business during the required hours. Be sure the archivist can handle a copy of the media as well.

Keeping an offsite copy is always a good idea. But you must have a copy of the docs as well.

my2257 · 05-31-2005, 08:08 AM

What is my2257?

my2257 is a record management system designed to maintain model and production information for the adult entertainment industry. my2257 has been specifically created to aid content producers and website owners with compliance issues in both current and proposed legislation as outlined in 18 U.S.C. section 2257.

At a Glance:
my2257 incorporates powerful, yet easy-to-use features enabling the user to record vital information about models, producers, productions and the resulting content. The data stored in my2257 is indexed and fully cross-referenced, allowing for quick and accurate retrieval of information.

Beyond the Basics:

One of the truly unique features of my2257 is the ability to catalog content. This feature also enables producers to digitally serialize and track content. Once content has been added to my2257, a unique identifier is embedded in the content, allowing for the retrieval of all information pertaining to the production using the Content Lookup tool. This information includes: the models involved, their identification, aliases, releases and various other pertinent details.

This is a true Windows desk top application ? NOT a script running on a remote UNIX server.

My2257 runs on a computer or server based at you location of custodial of record and can also run at your physical location. Being that you control and host your data you meet the full requirements of 18USC2257. Just about anyone that can operate a mouse and keyboard can enter data into my2257!

My2257 is available in a single user stand alone version and an Enterprise addition for companies with network access needs. Off site backups available.

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 08:52 AM

my2257, I've seen that earlier, but I haven't seen your prices yet

TheDoc · 05-31-2005, 10:00 AM

no, you CAN NOT have your records held at a 3rd party place. It CLEARLY states this in the new regulations. This is under the Regulatory procedures/regulatory flexibility act.

s9ann0 · 05-31-2005, 10:10 AM

2257 is the end of the adult internet!

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanno

2257 is the end of the adult internet!

Or may be it just a way back to the "Gold Times"? The market will be much cleanly very soon

P.S. If you have all the docs in place, why should you be worried about new 2257?

Pleasurepays · 05-31-2005, 10:27 AM

doesn't the law require all 2257 records to be printed out and filed in paper form? is what you are offering even in compliance with the law?

"Section 75.4 of the existing Regulations states that "Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business"

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

doesn't the law require all 2257 records to be printed out and filed in paper form? is what you are offering even in compliance with the law?

No it doesn't. Digital scans are ok for the content you bought from a content provider.

Quote:

"Section 75.4 of the existing Regulations states that "Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business"

Exactly. However what's should be called "a place of business" for say some group of webmasters (business partners) from various countries that run some site (say AVS)?

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

"Section 75.4 of the existing Regulations states that "Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business"

BTW, please read this part more carefully: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business". Re-read it a few times if needed but try to understand it. So if it is allowed to have only digital copies of the docs (but it's really allowed for non-primary producers), and if you have these DIGITAL docs in some place (say on some server) that's available at YOUR place of business so it's also ok. I.e. if the mentioned server is available at YOUR place of business (say via Internet) - you DO NOT violate 2257.

chadglni · 05-31-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

BTW, please read this part more carefully: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business". Re-read it a few times if needed but try to understand it. So if it is allowed to have only digital copies of the docs (but it's really allowed for non-primary producers), and if you have these DIGITAL docs in some place (say on some server) that's available at YOUR place of business so it's also ok. I.e. if the mentioned server is available at YOUR place of business (say via Internet) - you DO NOT violate 2257.

Until the inspectors stop in during a power failure, internet downtime, or while your computer is broken. Then what? They also might want copies for themselves so better hope that printer isn't out of ink, etc. I'm not looking it up again but they expect you to produce the records in a timely manner. Have fun explaining how you though it would be better to keep them on your computer or online. Wheeeeeeeeeeee

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 11:04 AM

Once again: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business" doesn't mean: "shall keep such records at the producer's place of business". English is not my mother language (I even didn't lean it), but even I can see the difference

chadglni · 05-31-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Once again: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business" doesn't mean: "shall keep such records at the producer's place of business". English is not my mother language (I even didn't lean it), but even I can see the difference

And once again, what happens if you can't get them for one of the reasons I mentioned above?

Pleasurepays · 05-31-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Once again: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business" doesn't mean: "shall keep such records at the producer's place of business". English is not my mother language (I even didn't lean it), but even I can see the difference

this sounds like you interpreting the law... and playing semantics, not a lawyer interpreting the law. my understanding is that the *intention* of the regulations was to require producers to maintain records at their primary place of business.

here is an entire quote:

"10. Section 75.4 of the existing Regulations states that "Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business" and prohibits the use of post office boxes; The new Regulations contain the same provisions. This language probably makes it illegal to maintain records away from a place where the business activities of the producer take place, as for example in a temporary storage location, an office rented by the hour, or by an outside agent conducting his own business."

so... this is an attorney telling us what he thinks the wording means. can you offer anyone 100% guarantees that you are correct and he is wrong?

you should be able to right?

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

Until the inspectors stop in during a power failure, internet downtime, or while your computer is broken. Then what?

Only if you live in USA. Otherwise the inspectors will have to contact you on phone or via email or even... regular mail

So I don't think you won't have a time to bring them the necessary docs in time even if your server will be down for some time. Also I didn't said that you don't have to dup everything at your working computer (that for a case if your server will be stolen buy Al'Queda)

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

And once again, what happens if you can't get them for one of the reasons I mentioned above?

Then I'll get the docs from my PC. Is that a good answer?

TheDoc · 05-31-2005, 11:31 AM

You can keep records in digital form or hard copy form. The records must be kept at your place of business (the location that gets the records, files them, etc) The record holder must be at the place of business for at least 20 hours a week.

A producer is the primary and the secondary producer. So if they say the word producer it means both.

So, if you have a normal office and a studio and you to keep the records at the studio the records must be processed at that location and the studio must be owned/operated by the primary company, otherwise it's a 3rd party holder and that isn't legal. Having your records at a lawyers office that is on retainer is not legal, that is not your place of business, that is your lawyers place of business, unless you pay his rent each month, then you keep the records at his office.

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You can keep records in digital form or hard copy form. The records must be kept at your place of business (the location that gets the records, files them, etc) The record holder must be at the place of business for at least 20 hours a week.

A producer is the primary and the secondary producer. So if they say the word producer it means both.

So, if you have a normal office and a studio and you to keep the records at the studio the records must be processed at that location and the studio must be owned/operated by the primary company, otherwise it's a 3rd party holder and that isn't legal. Having your records at a lawyers office that is on retainer is not legal, that is not your place of business, that is your lawyers place of business, unless you pay his rent each month, then you keep the records at his office.

There is a lot of nuances... I can't enumerate them all, but it's very easy to comply 2257 even if your docs are don't located at your working computer. Especially if you are NOT a primary provider and don't have a studio, and if you are NOT located in the USA.

GatorB · 05-31-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You can keep records in digital form or hard copy form. The records must be kept at your place of business (the location that gets the records, files them, etc) The record holder must be at the place of business for at least 20 hours a week.

A producer is the primary and the secondary producer. So if they say the word producer it means both.

So, if you have a normal office and a studio and you to keep the records at the studio the records must be processed at that location and the studio must be owned/operated by the primary company, otherwise it's a 3rd party holder and that isn't legal. Having your records at a lawyers office that is on retainer is not legal, that is not your place of business, that is your lawyers place of business, unless you pay his rent each month, then you keep the records at his office.

Yes so that means if you are doing this out of your home then your HOME is your place of business. So that is the address you have to put on your 2257 statement. Some people here are tyring to get cute with the language when it's quite clear. The DOJ wants to know where to find YOU if they desire to do an insepction youa re obligated to tell them where to find YOU.

Also yes you can have digital copies as long as they include scans of the original docs.

By the way since you are putting your HOME add( or even busines address really ) then doesn't that just make the DOJ's job easier should they decide to get you for obscenity? I suggest anyone from Alabama or Utah doing this to get out this business quick or move.

Pleasurepays · 05-31-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Then I'll get the docs from my PC. Is that a good answer?

you just interpreted the law to mean that you can store the documents on a remote server. so if they come to the office when you have no connection, no power, no computer etc etc etc... then you are without 2257 docs and not in compliance correct? do you really believe thats what the writers intended? do you think a court is going to agree with the you? are you willing to be a 100,000 for a criminal defense team and risk 5-10 years in prison based on your understanding?

its not about being able to read english... its about intention and how the court will interpret the wording when you are arrested and on trial. you are making assumptions that seem to be wrong and then giving english lessons when english is not your first language and presumably, you know little about US law.

you can't always be assured that you are 100% correct in interpreting laws that have not been through the court. all you can do is to do everything you can to make sure you are in a defensible position. if you are not 100% sure that the law allows remote storage of documents (outside of the place of business of the producer), then you are not doing yourself any favors.

TheDoc · 05-31-2005, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

There is a lot of nuances... I can't enumerate them all, but it's very easy to comply 2257 even if your docs are don't located at your working computer. Especially if you are NOT a primary provider and don't have a studio, and if you are NOT located in the USA.

If you are the secondary producer you still have to keep the records at your place of business, your house, your office, your studio, a place you man for at least 20 hours a week.

If you are located outside of the USA, then no, you don't need to keep records. BUT if you process within the United States or host in the United States then you have to comply. I "feel" that if you do business with a US company, and use the content on your domain then you should at least link to that companies records.

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If you are the secondary producer you still have to keep the records at your place of business, your house, your office, your studio, a place you man for at least 20 hours a week.

If you are located outside of the USA, then no, you don't need to keep records. BUT if you process within the United States or host in the United States then you have to comply. I "feel" that if you do business with a US company, and use the content on your domain then you should at least link to that companies records.

EU business, CCBill EU billing, EU hosting etc. But I STILL have all the docs in place (actually I had them all the time).

fetishpix · 05-31-2005, 12:24 PM

We have been advised by two different Law Firms that if the Feds can't copy it or pick it on your site - it DOES NOT meet the regulations. Hosted solution is alright for back up, BUT not for the primary.

Must have a hard copy or digital copy on the premises that the Authorities can leave with..

Everyone will read this different I am sure, but we will have a hard copy, a digital copy and a computer on premises with ALL the data to be safe.

Rather safe than sorry I figure

clickhappy · 05-31-2005, 12:29 PM

No, the law is clear. no 3rd party record holders are allowed.
its at your place of business ONLY

just a punk · 05-31-2005, 01:30 PM

BTW, as far as I can say TGP's will die very soon because TGP posters won't have all the docs. So only FHG's will survive because they are hosted by SPONSORS. So use FHGStore.com and feel protected!

05-31-2005, 07:15 AM	#1
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	2257: is that possible to hire a 3rd-party record keeper to store the electronic docs Any suggestions? __________________ Obey the Cowgod

05-31-2005, 07:48 AM	#3
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	read the law.. it says at your place of business.. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

05-31-2005, 08:52 AM	#6
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	my2257, I've seen that earlier, but I haven't seen your prices yet __________________ Obey the Cowgod

05-31-2005, 10:00 AM	#7
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	no, you CAN NOT have your records held at a 3rd party place. It CLEARLY states this in the new regulations. This is under the Regulatory procedures/regulatory flexibility act. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

05-31-2005, 11:04 AM	#14
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	Once again: "shall make such records available at the producer's place of business" doesn't mean: "shall keep such records at the producer's place of business". English is not my mother language (I even didn't lean it), but even I can see the difference __________________ Obey the Cowgod

05-31-2005, 07:34 AM	#2
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,791	Yes, I believe it is ok and a good idea as an emergency backup in case of fire, pissed employees, confiscation, and the like. You'd still need copies at your place of business during the required hours. Be sure the archivist can handle a copy of the media as well.

05-31-2005, 08:08 AM	#5
my2257 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 110	What is my2257? my2257 is a record management system designed to maintain model and production information for the adult entertainment industry. my2257 has been specifically created to aid content producers and website owners with compliance issues in both current and proposed legislation as outlined in 18 U.S.C. section 2257. At a Glance: my2257 incorporates powerful, yet easy-to-use features enabling the user to record vital information about models, producers, productions and the resulting content. The data stored in my2257 is indexed and fully cross-referenced, allowing for quick and accurate retrieval of information. Beyond the Basics: One of the truly unique features of my2257 is the ability to catalog content. This feature also enables producers to digitally serialize and track content. Once content has been added to my2257, a unique identifier is embedded in the content, allowing for the retrieval of all information pertaining to the production using the Content Lookup tool. This information includes: the models involved, their identification, aliases, releases and various other pertinent details. This is a true Windows desk top application ? NOT a script running on a remote UNIX server. My2257 runs on a computer or server based at you location of custodial of record and can also run at your physical location. Being that you control and host your data you meet the full requirements of 18USC2257. Just about anyone that can operate a mouse and keyboard can enter data into my2257! My2257 is available in a single user stand alone version and an Enterprise addition for companies with network access needs. Off site backups available.

05-31-2005, 10:10 AM	#8
s9ann0 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 4,873	2257 is the end of the adult internet!

05-31-2005, 10:27 AM	#10
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	doesn't the law require all 2257 records to be printed out and filed in paper form? is what you are offering even in compliance with the law? "Section 75.4 of the existing Regulations states that "Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business"

05-31-2005, 11:31 AM	#19
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	You can keep records in digital form or hard copy form. The records must be kept at your place of business (the location that gets the records, files them, etc) The record holder must be at the place of business for at least 20 hours a week. A producer is the primary and the secondary producer. So if they say the word producer it means both. So, if you have a normal office and a studio and you to keep the records at the studio the records must be processed at that location and the studio must be owned/operated by the primary company, otherwise it's a 3rd party holder and that isn't legal. Having your records at a lawyers office that is on retainer is not legal, that is not your place of business, that is your lawyers place of business, unless you pay his rent each month, then you keep the records at his office. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

05-31-2005, 12:24 PM	#25
fetishpix Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 100	We have been advised by two different Law Firms that if the Feds can't copy it or pick it on your site - it DOES NOT meet the regulations. Hosted solution is alright for back up, BUT not for the primary. Must have a hard copy or digital copy on the premises that the Authorities can leave with.. Everyone will read this different I am sure, but we will have a hard copy, a digital copy and a computer on premises with ALL the data to be safe. Rather safe than sorry I figure

05-31-2005, 12:29 PM	#26
clickhappy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,027	No, the law is clear. no 3rd party record holders are allowed. its at your place of business ONLY

05-31-2005, 01:30 PM	#27
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,386	BTW, as far as I can say TGP's will die very soon because TGP posters won't have all the docs. So only FHG's will survive because they are hosted by SPONSORS. So use FHGStore.com and feel protected! __________________ Obey the Cowgod