Gallery Designers without submission experiences - GoFuckYourself.com

Queensmoke · 05-30-2005, 11:04 AM

There are lots of designers nowdays who offer building gallery templates for 10-30$. The majority of them , at least to those I have talked to claim not ever haved submitted a gallery to a TGP.

At least they know what a TGP is.

So I wonder if those templates from those people who never had a chance to test if their galleries convert are efficient or not.

Is submission experience in your opinion essential in order to make good templates or not ?

GoodStuff · 05-30-2005, 11:10 AM

Short answer, yes.

Blazing · 05-30-2005, 11:15 AM

I think if the designer is given proper direction by an experienced submitter.. then the converts will be just as good as with an experienced designer/submitter..... I have always found that you get the best out of each persons capabilities.. and if the designer can design and submitter can submit.. the revenue will be that much greater using a combination of the two...

just my 2 cents....

by the way.. our hosted gallerys convert at 1:300 all day long!!!!

Queensmoke · 05-30-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleumax

I think if the designer is given proper direction by an experienced submitter.. then the converts will be just as good as with an experienced designer/submitter..... I have always found that you get the best out of each persons capabilities.. and if the designer can design and submitter can submit.. the revenue will be that much greater using a combination of the two...

just my 2 cents....

by the way.. our hosted gallerys convert at 1:300 all day long!!!!

well said

btw:
http://blazingbucks.com/wm/sites.htm

The 1000Facials link is broken on this page

pxxx · 05-30-2005, 11:22 AM

I don't think it is a requirement on the designer's part, but would be nice to have it.

FunForOne · 05-30-2005, 11:30 AM

I would think those two skills would be maximized if they were done by the same entity.

In my short experience, I realized that different places accept and convert well with different types of galleries.

I do mass produce some that I submit to a bunch of places, but the majority of my sales come from galleries that I designed specifically for the place where I am submitting. I have to find a balance between the rules of the tgp and the most effective things I need for conversions.

Sometimes its a tradoff where I expect a lower conversion ratio but higher acceptance ratios. Sometimes its the other way around. I spreadsheat all of the details and I continually try to find which is the better place to spend my time for each place that I submit.

Some people are more experienced than me and probably do a better job of making a gallery that would convert better in more places.

If someone wanted to pay me to design a gallery for them, my first question would be, "where are you going to submit it?"

ps: bleumax -- I'm always looking for good programs to promote. Hit me up if you are looking for affiliates that build and submit. 231124768

DamageX · 05-30-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleumax

I think if the designer is given proper direction by an experienced submitter.. then the converts will be just as good as with an experienced designer/submitter..... I have always found that you get the best out of each persons capabilities.. and if the designer can design and submitter can submit.. the revenue will be that much greater using a combination of the two...

I agree with this. At the very base a designer is only that, a designer. When I hired my designer to make me TGP/MGP designs, he made the most beautiful things I had ever seen. And totally counter-productive, I might add. A couple of months down the road, he knows damn well what he's doing. His mindset has changed from creating pretty stuff, to creating pretty stuff that sells.

Unfortunately most designers' mindsets never change. A big contributing factor to this is the fact that they never actually get a lot of feedback about how their stuff does. The few who get good results might get back to them and tell them what a good job they did. The rest won't, they'll just stop buying. Designers are so limited to designing that they have no idea about after sales contact with your client and what that can do to improve the service you provide them with. Selling a design is easy as hell, just drop the price low enough and someone will buy, eventually. Selling a design that works, for the right price, now THAT is a whole different ball game. In the long run, I'm pretty sure that very few people in this biz don't know that you get what you pay for.

GoodStuff · 05-30-2005, 11:40 AM

A longer answer...it's probably not essential, but it certainly helps and saves valuable time.

I've seen examples left by "gallery designers" left on this board where it is difficult to impossible to ascertain where the links are. If a surfer can't find the link to the paysite, what's the point?

I've seen examples of gallery designs posted on this board that have no chance of ever being posted on the hun. Wouldn't it be easier to just tell the designer that you want a template that will be accepted on the hun, and have them know what you mean?

There are big differences between templates to be used in paid spots, as submitted galleries and free hosted galleries. Do you want to spend your time describing to the designer what to do in each instance.

I also know that there are big differences in what text you use on a gallery and the links. For example, if you put the text "free video previews" as a link, my experience tells me that you will get a fairly high click through ratio, but generally a shitty conversion ratio. You just attract the free-loaders.

There are many more things that could be said on this topic, but the bottom line is the more you have to tell your designer to do, the more it just becomes pointless not to do the work yourself.

Experience is not essential, but it certainly is a cost saver. And if you meet a designer that knows what he is doing, maybe he will design galleries more effective than what you already know will work.

But then again, if the designer knew all of this why would he be designing for other people?

I think the ideal gallery designer submits, but designs for others to fill extra time.

eroswebmaster · 05-30-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodStuff

But then again, if the designer knew all of this why would he be designing for other people?

when I designed for others, the reason mainly is because I hated submitting.

I decided I'd rather build up a design business than be a submitter..doesn't mean the galleries I designed did not convert.

FunForOne · 05-30-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodStuff

A longer answer...it's probably not essential, but it certainly helps and saves valuable time.

I've seen examples left by "gallery designers" left on this board where it is difficult to impossible to ascertain where the links are. If a surfer can't find the link to the paysite, what's the point?

I've seen examples of gallery designs posted on this board that have no chance of ever being posted on the hun. Wouldn't it be easier to just tell the designer that you want a template that will be accepted on the hun, and have them know what you mean?

There are big differences between templates to be used in paid spots, as submitted galleries and free hosted galleries. Do you want to spend your time describing to the designer what to do in each instance.

I also know that there are big differences in what text you use on a gallery and the links. For example, if you put the text "free video previews" as a link, my experience tells me that you will get a fairly high click through ratio, but generally a shitty conversion ratio. You just attract the free-loaders.

There are many more things that could be said on this topic, but the bottom line is the more you have to tell your designer to do, the more it just becomes pointless not to do the work yourself.

Experience is not essential, but it certainly is a cost saver. And if you meet a designer that knows what he is doing, maybe he will design galleries more effective than what you already know will work.

But then again, if the designer knew all of this why would he be designing for other people?

I think the ideal gallery designer submits, but designs for others to fill extra time.

extremely well said

LadyMischief · 05-30-2005, 11:58 AM

Honestly, I feel that having a good idea about traffic can help you sell.. not all templates are created equal, and I've built templates that perform stunningly on some tgps, and more mediocre on others... Oftentimes I will ask my clients which tgps they plan on using the templates on, as targeting the sales techniques to the type of traffic can show a dramatic increase in productivity and CTR.

LadyMischief · 05-30-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

I agree with this. At the very base a designer is only that, a designer. When I hired my designer to make me TGP/MGP designs, he made the most beautiful things I had ever seen. And totally counter-productive, I might add. A couple of months down the road, he knows damn well what he's doing. His mindset has changed from creating pretty stuff, to creating pretty stuff that sells.

Unfortunately most designers' mindsets never change. A big contributing factor to this is the fact that they never actually get a lot of feedback about how their stuff does. The few who get good results might get back to them and tell them what a good job they did. The rest won't, they'll just stop buying. Designers are so limited to designing that they have no idea about after sales contact with your client and what that can do to improve the service you provide them with. Selling a design is easy as hell, just drop the price low enough and someone will buy, eventually. Selling a design that works, for the right price, now THAT is a whole different ball game. In the long run, I'm pretty sure that very few people in this biz don't know that you get what you pay for.

Too True.. just because you can make pretty designs doesn't mean you can sell.. I've said it before and i'll say it again, gallery design is MARKETING, you have to KNOW how to market before you can build a successful gallery. Making a pretty page as a pretty frame for pictures won't sell shit.

Terry · 05-30-2005, 12:03 PM

I agree with all of you. I think it would be a bonus if the designer knew the basic rules for submitting. Some designers are just born with it.. whatever they do, just works... others need guidance to learn and thats fine... we all have to start somewhere.

prime · 05-31-2005, 05:39 AM

We have gallery designers who have basic to intermediate submission skills

Rui · 05-31-2005, 05:55 AM

no experience submitting = don't know the results of their work (what works what doesn't, how to maximize profit,etc) = worthless

05-30-2005, 11:04 AM	#1
Queensmoke Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 54	Gallery Designers without submission experiences There are lots of designers nowdays who offer building gallery templates for 10-30$. The majority of them , at least to those I have talked to claim not ever haved submitted a gallery to a TGP. At least they know what a TGP is. So I wonder if those templates from those people who never had a chance to test if their galleries convert are efficient or not. Is submission experience in your opinion essential in order to make good templates or not ? __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

05-30-2005, 11:15 AM	#3
Blazing Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Irvine, CA, USA Posts: 1,665	I think if the designer is given proper direction by an experienced submitter.. then the converts will be just as good as with an experienced designer/submitter..... I have always found that you get the best out of each persons capabilities.. and if the designer can design and submitter can submit.. the revenue will be that much greater using a combination of the two... just my 2 cents.... by the way.. our hosted gallerys convert at 1:300 all day long!!!! __________________ [email protected] ICQ 7703879

05-30-2005, 11:58 AM	#11
LadyMischief Orgasms N Such! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 18,135	Honestly, I feel that having a good idea about traffic can help you sell.. not all templates are created equal, and I've built templates that perform stunningly on some tgps, and more mediocre on others... Oftentimes I will ask my clients which tgps they plan on using the templates on, as targeting the sales techniques to the type of traffic can show a dramatic increase in productivity and CTR. __________________ ICQ 3522039 Content Manager - orgasm.com [email protected]

05-30-2005, 12:03 PM	#13
Terry Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,604	I agree with all of you. I think it would be a bonus if the designer knew the basic rules for submitting. Some designers are just born with it.. whatever they do, just works... others need guidance to learn and thats fine... we all have to start somewhere. __________________ TengaCash ICQ: 6776764

05-31-2005, 05:39 AM	#14
prime Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Manila Posts: 400	We have gallery designers who have basic to intermediate submission skills __________________ \| offshore solutions \| manual labor \| staff leasing \| and more! Dedicated -Motivated-Managed Employees icq.: 309570461 live chat

05-30-2005, 11:10 AM	#2
GoodStuff Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 511	Short answer, yes.

05-30-2005, 11:22 AM	#5
pxxx First African GFY Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 12,114	I don't think it is a requirement on the designer's part, but would be nice to have it.

05-30-2005, 11:30 AM	#6
FunForOne Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 8,704	I would think those two skills would be maximized if they were done by the same entity. In my short experience, I realized that different places accept and convert well with different types of galleries. I do mass produce some that I submit to a bunch of places, but the majority of my sales come from galleries that I designed specifically for the place where I am submitting. I have to find a balance between the rules of the tgp and the most effective things I need for conversions. Sometimes its a tradoff where I expect a lower conversion ratio but higher acceptance ratios. Sometimes its the other way around. I spreadsheat all of the details and I continually try to find which is the better place to spend my time for each place that I submit. Some people are more experienced than me and probably do a better job of making a gallery that would convert better in more places. If someone wanted to pay me to design a gallery for them, my first question would be, "where are you going to submit it?" ps: bleumax -- I'm always looking for good programs to promote. Hit me up if you are looking for affiliates that build and submit. 231124768

05-30-2005, 11:40 AM	#8
GoodStuff Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 511	A longer answer...it's probably not essential, but it certainly helps and saves valuable time. I've seen examples left by "gallery designers" left on this board where it is difficult to impossible to ascertain where the links are. If a surfer can't find the link to the paysite, what's the point? I've seen examples of gallery designs posted on this board that have no chance of ever being posted on the hun. Wouldn't it be easier to just tell the designer that you want a template that will be accepted on the hun, and have them know what you mean? There are big differences between templates to be used in paid spots, as submitted galleries and free hosted galleries. Do you want to spend your time describing to the designer what to do in each instance. I also know that there are big differences in what text you use on a gallery and the links. For example, if you put the text "free video previews" as a link, my experience tells me that you will get a fairly high click through ratio, but generally a shitty conversion ratio. You just attract the free-loaders. There are many more things that could be said on this topic, but the bottom line is the more you have to tell your designer to do, the more it just becomes pointless not to do the work yourself. Experience is not essential, but it certainly is a cost saver. And if you meet a designer that knows what he is doing, maybe he will design galleries more effective than what you already know will work. But then again, if the designer knew all of this why would he be designing for other people? I think the ideal gallery designer submits, but designs for others to fill extra time.

05-31-2005, 05:55 AM	#15
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	no experience submitting = don't know the results of their work (what works what doesn't, how to maximize profit,etc) = worthless