Adult Friend Finder - Why?

[Chimmy]

A couple of weeks back I posted an expose pointing out the greatly inflated membership numbers claimed on AFF. To recap, if you use the ACTIVE member numbers for each state, compare these numbers to the census population figures of Adults over 18 in each state. The results will show you that IF AFF's member numbers are accurate, then this would mean that, on average, 1 out of every 7 to 11 adults in the United States are ACTIVE members of AFF. Similar results were found for Canada, with 1 out of 13 of ALL adults being claimed as ACTIVE members.

I have no doubt that AFF does in fact have a large member base, so why resort to using these obviously fraudelent numbers?

And the trickery continues on in their Geo-targeted banners. One version of banners lists a selection of "members" who all live in my home town. So, curious to see if they do in fact live near by, I logged into my account, and did a search for the 4 different "members" presented.

The first one does indeed exist - albeit in a different COUNTRY.

The Second was a generic ad, with no photos provided. And again, not within a 1,000 miles of me. The lack of photos also seems very questionable. After all, according to other threads by AFF, the members they show in the geo-banners how approved the use of their profile and photos in newsletters and other marketing materials. So, doesn't it seem kind of strange that a person would provide a photo for worldwide distribution, but not provide a photo for their own profile.

The third and fourth had "removed their profiles". And I can already predict the AFF response. "The members had such great luck with the geo-targeted banner exposure, that they decided to remove their profiles". If this is in fact true, I would expect that the members would have also expected that their profile would be removed from the geo-targeted banners.

And yes, I know that the webmasters all make "great bank" and the conversions are "off the hook". But again I ask the question. Why must AFF resort to slime tactics, when surely the real membership numbers and real profiles would be equally impressive.

[Babagirls]

i'll get the popcorn.....

(btw, interesting points)

[Theo]

how long have you been in this business? It's a deceiving industry from all perspectives.

[Fatum]

I am not exactly sure what are you trying to say, but the pics and nicknames in their geo-targeted ads are all same. Only location information is geotargeted.
Did you notice the photos in ads does not show face at all. It shows boobs, pussy, ass, but no face.
Noone would believe a hot blonde will come out from China.

AFF just doesnt bother to fully geotarget the ads and show real profiles, they just create fake profiles and add some location info.

[Chimmy]

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

how long have you been in this business? It's a deceiving industry from all perspectives.

I certainly don't question that your statement is in fact 100% true. My question is, why deceive the consumer, when surely the program could be operated entirely above board, with equal results.

I didn't mention my home town, where I received the 'questionable' geo targeted results. I live just outside the municipal limits of Houston, Texas.

And further to the post directly above this:That's exactly "what I am trying to say". The geo ads are fake.

[12clicks]

why don't you run along and ask McDonalds why they deceptively state "over 5 billion served"


fucking kids.

[Chimmy]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

why don't you run along and ask McDonalds why they deceptively state "over 5 billion served"


fucking kids.

Ahhh, it's my good buddy 'bordie". That's my new pet name for you, on account of my mini diagnosis of your apparent borderline personality disorder.

And in response to your comment...the statistical evidence backs up McDonald's claims. On the other hand, the statistical evidence for AFF would also show that the membership numbers are impossible. McDonalds does not claim Over 5 Billion "unique individuals" served. AFF's stats on the other hand all refer to ACTIVE Members, which would infer that each active member is also a unique individual.

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

why don't you run along and ask McDonalds why they deceptively state "over 5 billion served"


fucking kids.

apples and oranges dingleberry

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Ahhh, it's my good buddy 'bordie". That's my new pet name for you, on account of my mini diagnosis of your apparent borderline personality disorder.

ahahaha, another noob who's got it alllllllllll figured out.

[crockett]

You honestly think they are going to show "real" members on geo IP adds? You have any idea how much problems that could cause for them? Especially when those Geo IP adds are all over porn sites?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

apples and oranges dingleberry

no its not. its simple advertising vs simple minds.

[jonpotz]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

A couple of weeks back I posted an expose pointing out the greatly inflated membership numbers claimed on AFF. To recap, if you use the ACTIVE member numbers for each state, compare these numbers to the census population figures of Adults over 18 in each state. The results will show you that IF AFF's member numbers are accurate, then this would mean that, on average, 1 out of every 7 to 11 adults in the United States are ACTIVE members of AFF. Similar results were found for Canada, with 1 out of 13 of ALL adults being claimed as ACTIVE members.

I have no doubt that AFF does in fact have a large member base, so why resort to using these obviously fraudelent numbers?

And the trickery continues on in their Geo-targeted banners. One version of banners lists a selection of "members" who all live in my home town. So, curious to see if they do in fact live near by, I logged into my account, and did a search for the 4 different "members" presented.

The first one does indeed exist - albeit in a different COUNTRY.

The Second was a generic ad, with no photos provided. And again, not within a 1,000 miles of me. The lack of photos also seems very questionable. After all, according to other threads by AFF, the members they show in the geo-banners how approved the use of their profile and photos in newsletters and other marketing materials. So, doesn't it seem kind of strange that a person would provide a photo for worldwide distribution, but not provide a photo for their own profile.

The third and fourth had "removed their profiles". And I can already predict the AFF response. "The members had such great luck with the geo-targeted banner exposure, that they decided to remove their profiles". If this is in fact true, I would expect that the members would have also expected that their profile would be removed from the geo-targeted banners.

And yes, I know that the webmasters all make "great bank" and the conversions are "off the hook". But again I ask the question. Why must AFF resort to slime tactics, when surely the real membership numbers and real profiles would be equally impressive.

chimmy must be from a competitor of AFF.

to answer simply: who gives a shit, it sells. I don't see surfers complaining to me saying "hey your website said there are 20,000 members in new jersey and by my estimates there are only 12,000, why are you doing this to meeeeee"

if they did complain it would be a different story.

the only person who is complaining and keeps bringing this up is in fact you.

[Dirty F]

You should also attack all the paysites who claim to be the best while they arent really the best. Go get them boy!

[Chimmy]

Bordie (12Clicks), aren't you the same fella that venomently defends his own program as the last safe harbour of honest businessmanship. And yet, here you are, equally quick on the draw to defend other's less-then-stellar business practices. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't have to look to far to reveal the disparity in your polarly opposite views.

And to the rest of you...read the post. The point is, the stats given by AFF are false. The ads are false. End of story.

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

no its not. its simple advertising vs simple minds.

not when McDonalds can back it's claim and AFF can't. it's FALSE advertising, not simple advertising. Feel free to look up the FTC Act and the Lanham Act if you're unsure of what false advertising is.

[Vendot]

My question is which camp is this Chimmy from? Iwantu, Adultactioncash, sexsearch, clickcash, datinggold or who?

With this much effort in discrediting AFF, one would imagine he would eventually find the right audience to pitch it to but my guess is that this isnt it.

[Wizzo]

Thought this thread could use a visual aid...

[Chimmy]

I will be straight out and honest. I am not what you would call an active member of the Adult business community. I dabble. Nothing more, nothing less. My primary income is derived elsewhere. But, I do find the responses on this board fasinating. There are a never ending supply of colorful examples of how individuals and groups can sometimes blindly justify any means to achieve a certain end.

In this industry, it is the nature of the industry itself (porn) that is most often used as a defence mechanism. To put this in very simplistic terms, the general feeling seems to be " This is porn. Porn by it's very nature is, at best, a part of the underbelly of society. Therefore, the business tactics used to sell this product need not measure up to the same standards set for mainstream industry".

If I ever had to write another thesis, this industry would make an excellent research project. But, for now, I simply find this whole business amusing.

And as far as 'discrediting" AFF goes...anyone is fair game. At this point in time, though, it's AFF's glaringly obvious exaggerations that attracted my attention. Don't worry, the rest of you will get your turn.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Bordie (12Clicks), aren't you the same fella that venomently defends his own program as the last safe harbour of honest businessmanship.

nope, keep guessing honey.

Originally Posted by Chimmy

And yet, here you are, equally quick on the draw to defend other's less-then-stellar business practices. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't have to look to far to reveal the disparity in your polarly opposite views.

you've got the tinfoil hat methodology working pretty well. but you're not going to get business people to go along with you you'll get the uneducated, like yourself.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Don't worry, the rest of you will get your turn.

I'm sure we're all trembling, n00b.

[Chimmy]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

nope, keep guessing honey.

you've got the tinfoil hat methodology working pretty well. but you're not going to get business people to go along with you you'll get the uneducated, like yourself.

Oh Bordie, you poor misguided fella.

Here's another interesting piece of statistical analysis:

Right now, the front page of AFF shows the following:
19,244,498 ACTIVE members
86,068 members online now

So, let's tear this apart, shall we.

That would mean that right now 1 out of 233 ACTIVE members are online NOW

But here is where the fun begins:

Take into account the different time zones around the world, and I will guess (likely my guess is much smaller then actual numbers) that 10% of members are in time zones where it is unlikely that they would be on the computer right now.

So now we are at 1 out of 211 members

Now, lets' assume that 50% of the members are currently at work. (Again, these numbers are very conservative). And using past studies, approx. 91% of ALL employees never have nor will ever view adult materials from their workplace. So, that leaves approx. 1 million members that are at work and will view adult materials at some time in their careers. (But doubtful that they are all viewing adult materials right now).

And, we also have the 50% that are not at work...so they could feasibly be on the computer, which equals approx. 9 million members.

So we are at
86,068 members online out of a pool of approx 10 million members, or one out of 100 of all possible members are online right now.

But wait, before you say, well that's possible. Remember that I have proven that the actual membership numbers for each state are impossibly high, and therefore greatly exaggerated. I would guess that the stated numbers are inflated by at least ten times...and most likely much more. So, now we have 1 in 10 of ALL ACTIVE MEMBERS worldwide on the site right now. Not just online today, but right this very second.

Something seems a little fishy on this end.

[Quickdraw]

I think you bring up some great points, and yes, you are just scraping the tip of the iceburg.

It seems, on this board anyway, money talks and ethics go out the door.

You see folks bitch about spyware all the time here, but when their favorite sponsors are paying the spyware scum to advertise over their affiliate, potential affiliates, sites, it's no big deal.
When you bring it up you are a whiny baby, or a competitor trying to cause trouble.

Good luck to you.

[Wizzo]

Another interesting piece of statistical analysis,

AFF will likely profit more just today than Chimney will this entire year....:

[Chimmy]

And if you don't like the way I tweaked and turned the stats above, then there are any number of additional ways to look at this. Do a search on AFF right now. Take a look at the profiles. Now look at how many have been online in the last day. Now look at how many have been on in the last 2 days, and so on and so on. Although my manipulation of these results will be somewhat flawed, if you take the percentage of members who have been on in the last day, to also indicate the percentage who are on RIGHT NOW, again we end up with some pretty impressive numbers, which also translates to some statistically doubtful numbers.

[wdsguy]

Originally Posted by Fatum

I am not exactly sure what are you trying to say, but the pics and nicknames in their geo-targeted ads are all same. Only location information is geotargeted.
Did you notice the photos in ads does not show face at all. It shows boobs, pussy, ass, but no face.
Noone would believe a hot blonde will come out from China.

AFF just doesnt bother to fully geotarget the ads and show real profiles, they just create fake profiles and add some location info.

thats like most dating sponsors.....

[Chimmy]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Another interesting piece of statistical analysis,

AFF will likely profit more just today than Chimney will this entire year....:

Hell, I'll up the anty, and say that AFF will probably profit more in the next minute then I will from the adult industry in the next year.

But your comment does once again bring up an interesting point. As is the norm in this industry, the responses are generally not of the type that question the ethics of a company. Instead it is always their earning potential.

[azguy]

Interesting points. Let's see what AFF says about this thread.

[QuaWee]

interesting, I would like to hear a response from AFF

[BigRod]

Geo Target Ads have increased my conversions by 400% !!!

I don't care if the girls are from a different planet, they make me BANK!

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Hell, I'll up the anty, and say that AFF will probably profit more in the next minute then I will from the adult industry in the next year.

But your comment does once again bring up an interesting point. As is the norm in this industry, the responses are generally not of the type that question the ethics of a company. Instead it is always their earning potential.

I wasn't just talking adult... in total!

Also, on another interesting note I have met dozens of REAL women off AFF. So I'm also a client and know that it has pleanty of real women!

[sumphatpimp]

here is a dime, call your mother and tell her their is serious doubt you will ever pass Marketing 101

[BigRod]

As far as members are concerned all you need to do to get a free membership is have an unique email address.

Your point would definitly be valid if everyone was allocated ONE email address!

[Chimmy]

One more, "lets put this into perspective" reply.

According to the stats for my home state of Texas, approx 1 in 13 of all adults over the age of 18 are ACTIVE members of AFF. So, walk into any public place right now. Count out 13 people. And within this count, you must include Grandmothers, Grandfathers, mentally, visually and otherwise handicapped individuals, males and females, individuals that do and do not have internet access, mothers, fathers....you get the point. You must include everyone over 18 in your sample. Now, remember, statistically 1 person in this diverse group of 13 will be an ACTIVE member of AFF. Repeat this over and over again, and the results should always average out to 1 in 13 of all citizens over the age of 18 are ACTIVE members of AFF.

[ffmihai]

why asking so many questions? i love AFF

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

A couple of weeks back I posted an expose pointing out the greatly inflated membership numbers claimed on AFF. To recap, if you use the ACTIVE member numbers for each state, compare these numbers to the census population figures of Adults over 18 in each state. The results will show you that IF AFF's member numbers are accurate, then this would mean that, on average, 1 out of every 7 to 11 adults in the United States are ACTIVE members of AFF. Similar results were found for Canada, with 1 out of 13 of ALL adults being claimed as ACTIVE members.

I have no doubt that AFF does in fact have a large member base, so why resort to using these obviously fraudelent numbers?

And the trickery continues on in their Geo-targeted banners. One version of banners lists a selection of "members" who all live in my home town. So, curious to see if they do in fact live near by, I logged into my account, and did a search for the 4 different "members" presented.

The first one does indeed exist - albeit in a different COUNTRY.

The Second was a generic ad, with no photos provided. And again, not within a 1,000 miles of me. The lack of photos also seems very questionable. After all, according to other threads by AFF, the members they show in the geo-banners how approved the use of their profile and photos in newsletters and other marketing materials. So, doesn't it seem kind of strange that a person would provide a photo for worldwide distribution, but not provide a photo for their own profile.

The third and fourth had "removed their profiles". And I can already predict the AFF response. "The members had such great luck with the geo-targeted banner exposure, that they decided to remove their profiles". If this is in fact true, I would expect that the members would have also expected that their profile would be removed from the geo-targeted banners.

And yes, I know that the webmasters all make "great bank" and the conversions are "off the hook". But again I ask the question. Why must AFF resort to slime tactics, when surely the real membership numbers and real profiles would be equally impressive.

apx 300 million people in the usa - that would mean that using your numbers of 1 in 10 is that you SAY AFF claims to have 30 million members in the USA.

I just logged on - 14,135,000 members in the USA. (added up all the numbers in the different states on their browse section) not one in 7-11 - more like 1 in 20.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Hell, I'll up the anty, and say that AFF will probably profit more in the next minute then I will from the adult industry in the next year.

But your comment does once again bring up an interesting point. As is the norm in this industry, the responses are generally not of the type that question the ethics of a company. Instead it is always their earning potential.

if you spent as much time on your sites , if you have any .... as you have spent on getting this info together, you may make some $

[BigRod]

AFF keeps me off the street :P

[BigRod]

This is a webmaster forum not a dating forum. The goal here is simple to MAKE MONEY!!!

[JFK]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

no its not. its simple advertising vs simple minds.

Good one

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

One more, "lets put this into perspective" reply.

According to the stats for my home state of Texas, approx 1 in 13 of all adults over the age of 18 are ACTIVE members of AFF. So, walk into any public place right now. Count out 13 people. And within this count, you must include Grandmothers, Grandfathers, mentally, visually and otherwise handicapped individuals, males and females, individuals that do and do not have internet access, mothers, fathers....you get the point. You must include everyone over 18 in your sample. Now, remember, statistically 1 person in this diverse group of 13 will be an ACTIVE member of AFF. Repeat this over and over again, and the results should always average out to 1 in 13 of all citizens over the age of 18 are ACTIVE members of AFF.

Well in that case, all the $10s of thousands of dollars they send us each month mean nothing, we are pulling those links until this is straight...

And I'm leaving Texas and moving to Florida where maybe their won't be as many "Grandmothers, Grandfathers, mentally, visually and otherwise handicapped individuals" on AFF...

HAHA....not... I think we all get what your saying, but we are saying BIG FUCKING DEAL! QUIT CRYING!

[Chimmy]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

I wasn't just talking adult... in total!

Also, on another interesting note I have met dozens of REAL women off AFF. So I'm also a client and know that it has pleanty of real women!

Thanks for staying the course. Again proving that my earning potential seems to have some relevance to the points brought up in this thread. But, if you want to go down that road, as far as research and statistical analysis goes, I can assure you, I have the qualifications.

And I don't doubt that there are real women. But that does not in any way make my points any less valid.

And Sleazy dream, you must learn to read more carefully. Although 1 in 20 should be sounding huge alarm bells in your head, which apparently it does not. Your number crunching is not finished there. Remember you are including all citizens, without any consideration of age, sex, mental, physical impairments, incarceration, or any other impairments to using the internet......and so on and so on.

Oh, just noticed your response below...Sleazy, I see you have taken the "well they do it, so so should I" defence.

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by vendot

My question is which camp is this Chimmy from? Iwantu, Adultactioncash, sexsearch, clickcash, datinggold or who?

With this much effort in discrediting AFF, one would imagine he would eventually find the right audience to pitch it to but my guess is that this isnt it.

as valid a question would be how did some of those other dating companies get millions of members in a year or two.

[pimplink]

on this board everyone cares just about $$$ and leaves ethic and principles behind...

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

Thanks for staying the course. Again proving that my earning potential seems to have some relevance to the points brought up in this thread. But, if you want to go down that road, as far as research and statistical analysis goes, I can assure you, I have the qualifications.

And I don't doubt that there are real women. But that does not in any way make my points any less valid.

And Sleazy dream, you must learn to read more carefully. Although 1 in 20 should be sounding huge alarm bells in your head, which apparently it does not. Your number crunching is not finished there. Remember you are including all citizens, without any consideration of age, sex, mental, physical impairments, incarceration, or any other impairments to using the internet......and so on and so on.

Oh, just noticed your response below...Sleazy, I see you have taken the "well they do it, so so should I" defence.

i never said it was right or wrong - i said your numbers were off.

A well they do it so I should too stance wouldn't make sense as AFF is older than the other services.

My point is - you may have something interesting. We don't know how many people register multiple profiles and such on AFF ( hell I had 2-3 myself at one point) - and it's something AFF works on dealing with every day but why would you choose to LIE about the numbers when the real numbers leave some room for interpretation?

that's my question to you? Why distort and lie about the real numbers?


What company do you work for? I'd bet money is another dating service and one with serious amounts of fake profiles in it.

AT least AFF attempts to sceen all profiles with a human eye

[Penthouse Tony]

Originally Posted by Chimmy

And in response to your comment...the statistical evidence backs up McDonald's claims. On the other hand, the statistical evidence for AFF would also show that the membership numbers are impossible. McDonalds does not claim Over 5 Billion "unique individuals" served. AFF's stats on the other hand all refer to ACTIVE Members, which would infer that each active member is also a unique individual.

We discovered after your earlier thread that our template was counting the number of listings not profiles. Let me explain the difference. A single profile can be listed in multiple catagories Women Seeking Women, Women Seeking Men, Women Seeking Couples, etc. We were displaying the number of listings not unique profiles (members) on our template. No disception was intended. We corrected this oversight weeks ago. It doesn't look like you've been to our site in weeks have you?

Our geo ads use a sample of members from our sites who wish to be used for marketing purposes. When you click on the ads the search listings that you see before registering are the users in your area. Webmasters who do not want to use our geo ads with member photos may opt for our text only version or non-geo ads all together.

[BlingDaddy]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Thought this thread could use a visual aid...

I haven't laughed so hard in a fucking week.....

[SleazyDream]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

We discovered after your earlier thread that our template was counting the number of listings not profiles. Let me explain the difference. A single profile can be listed in multiple catagories Women Seeking Women, Women Seeking Men, Women Seeking Couples, etc. We were displaying the number of listings not unique profiles (members) on our template. No disception was intended. We corrected this oversight weeks ago. It doesn't look like you've been to our site in weeks have you?

Our geo ads use a sample of members from our sites who wish to be used for marketing purposes. When you click on the ads the search listings that you see before registering are the users in your area. Webmasters who do not want to use our geo ads with member photos may opt for our text only version or non-geo ads all together.

ahh - that explains a lot - my ad alone would be listed about 7 times under that explaination - and with 2 in ther 14 times.


real numbers are about 1 in 100 or 200 people in the usa have used AFF I'd bet.

[Penthouse Tony]

Originally Posted by Fatum

AFF just doesnt bother to fully geotarget the ads and show real profiles, they just create fake profiles and add some location info.

This is 100% false we do not create fake profiles PERIOD.

[Xenophage]

If I were a betting man I would bet I know Chimmy, and that he has an axe to grind Many of his now 96 post are post bashing on AFF , SHILL ACCOUNT?? Anyway his points are interesting but we are not trying to hide anything or be anything we are not. Last time he brought this up I asked our staff to look into it and as Sagi has stated above we found a few different thing. One is that some people have multiple profiles. One as a couple one as a single person and one for group sex. Wich is great it means we can get paid 3 time son one person, but the stats would show 3 members... ohhhh ahhh big drama, hahaha. There are a lot of reasons for numbers, Sagi would be happy to talk to people about them on icq or email. This person certainly has an axe to grind, and like I said is just trying to discredit and cause drama where there is none.

[Downtime]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

why don't you run along and ask McDonalds why they deceptively state "over 5 billion served"


fucking kids.

that's not unique visitors remember ;)