At a Honda dealer near you: Natural gas cars

[VeriSexy]

DETROIT - In what it describes as an industry first, Honda Motor Co. is offering a natural gas vehicle with its own home refueling machine at dealerships in California.

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Honda said Thursday it has been offering its Honda Civic GX sedan to fleet operators for seven years, and estimates there are 7,000 of the natural gas-powered vehicles on the road. But this will be the first time consumers can buy the vehicle in a dealership and lease a refueling machine to go along with it.

"Driving a natural gas vehicle has never been so convenient," said Gunnar Lindstrom, Honda's manager of alternative fuel vehicle sales.

Honda said it expects to sell about 300 of the vehicles this year through 17 dealerships in northern and southern California. Toronto-based FuelMaker Corp., which makes the refueling machine, also will make the machine available to consumers in Arizona, Salt Lake City, Dallas and Milwaukee, although the Civic GX won't be on sale in those cities.

Honda said the Civic GX can go up to 220 miles without refueling and costs about 3.75 cents per mile to fuel. A conventional, gasoline-powered Civic can go approximately 350 miles without refueling and costs 8.8 cents per mile to fuel.

The Civic GX has some of the lowest emissions of any vehicle on the road, Honda said. On average, a car with a natural gas-powered internal-combustion engine emits 87 percent less nitrogen oxide, 70 percent less carbon monoxide and 25 less carbon dioxide than a car with an engine that uses gasoline, according to Honda.

The refueling machine uses a home's existing natural gas lines and can be installed for $500 to $1,500. Dealers will lease it for between $34 and $79 a month, Honda said. The lower leasing price factors in possible clean-vehicle incentives from state and local governments, Honda said.

There are a few downsides. If the vehicle runs out of natural gas on the road, it would have to be towed to the owners' home or one of the 100 California gas stations that now have natural gas refueling tanks. The refueling machine also takes eight hours to fuel the vehicle, which means consumers most likely would have to fill it overnight.

"The car is clearly not your primary car. It's your commuter car, your secondary car," Lindstrom said.

FuelMaker said the machine is registered as a household appliance and is no more dangerous than any other appliances that use natural gas.

Toyota Motor Co. spokeswoman Cindy Knight said Honda's offer likely is a first. Toyota offers no similar vehicle or home refueling option, Knight said.

The Civic GX has a 1.7-liter, 4-cylinder engine and starts at $21,670. Buyers can take advantage of a $2,000 federal tax deduction for alternative fuel vehicles.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7591809/

HONDA

[Spunky]

It's bound to happen sooner or later..electric/alternative fuel cars will eventually go down enough where the public will start buying more and more

[wedouglas]

mmmm fuel efficiency.....gotta love engineering

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by spunky

It's bound to happen sooner or later..electric/alternative fuel cars will eventually go down enough where the public will start buying more and more

The fuel is much cheaper too......... Less than half the cost of gasoline!!!!

"Honda said the Civic GX can go up to 220 miles without refueling and costs about 3.75 cents per mile to fuel. A conventional, gasoline-powered Civic can go approximately 350 miles without refueling and costs 8.8 cents per mile to fuel."

[simple simon]

yay cant wait to hear how many insurance claims for blown up houses 10-15 years before even 35% of the cars are of different combustion sources, if not longer

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by simple simon

yay cant wait to hear how many insurance claims for blown up houses 10-15 years before even 35% of the cars are of different combustion sources, if not longer

LOL these things have to pass safety standards. Many people have gas water heaters, you see many of them blow up?

[Thomas N]

Theres nothing new about that. People have been putting conversion kits on cars and making them run on natural gas for at least a decade. Many commercial vehicles especially do it. Propane also. Big fat yawn.

[Jace]

wow, fucking kick ass....i am all about cars running on alternate energy sources

[BoNgHiTtA]

OMG I want one, I have natural gas at my house. I hope these arent too expensive, I seriously think I might pick one up.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by VeriSexy

LOL these things have to pass safety standards. Many people have gas water heaters, you see many of them blow up?

ya prblem is, noone goes and fucks with the water heater on a regular basis. KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

[Jace]

Originally Posted by SwordFish

Theres nothing new about that. People have been putting conversion kits on cars and making them run on natural gas for at least a decade. Many commercial vehicles especially do it. Propane also. Big fat yawn.

and that is something they mentioned in the article....but the fact that someone is producing them for personal use is a big step

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by SwordFish

Theres nothing new about that. People have been putting conversion kits on cars and making them run on natural gas for at least a decade. Many commercial vehicles especially do it. Propane also. Big fat yawn.

Commercial vehicles having been using natural gas for a long time. This is the first time this kind of system has been built into family cars.

[Penthouse Tony]

Wow that's cool but like the article says only as a commuter car.

[Mike Okitch]

Alternative fuels is only getting bigger. Vancouver's yellow cab has already changed a bunch of their cars to Toyota's prius and will only do more of them. With the price of gas, it's perfectly understandable.

So there's electricity, Honda with natural gas. How about running a car on booze? http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/index.html Long read but interesting.

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by simple simon

ya prblem is, noone goes and fucks with the water heater on a regular basis. KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

I am guessing there is a password system........... These type of systems have been put to commercial use for many years.

[iwantchixx]

The governments will find a way to tax you to death for using them if they become really popular. So the cheapness is only temporary. SOmething has to payf or road work and new road construction. Automotive fuel is where the bulk of that money comes from. Same with electric cars, if they became the mainstream of what cars are then the electricity used for the vehicles will be taxed to death to cover road work costs. There will never be a permanant cheap fuel for automobiles. never.

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by BoNgHiTtA

OMG I want one, I have natural gas at my house. I hope these arent too expensive, I seriously think I might pick one up.

The Civic GX has a 1.7-liter, 4-cylinder engine and starts at $21,670. Buyers can take advantage of a $2,000 federal tax deduction for alternative fuel vehicles.

[iwantchixx]

Case in point, in Europe there is a good chunk of people using alternative combustibles for their diesel engines such as used fast food restaurant oils. It was against the law to burn them in the beginging then the governments aproved the use of them but put a tax on them. The costs is about the same as diesel.

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

The governments will find a way to tax you to death for using them if they become really popular. So the cheapness is only temporary. SOmething has to payf or road work and new road construction. Automotive fuel is where the bulk of that money comes from. Same with electric cars, if they became the mainstream of what cars are then the electricity used for the vehicles will be taxed to death to cover road work costs. There will never be a permanant cheap fuel for automobiles. never.

The fueling system is hooked up to a seperate meter so I am sure they will automaticly add tax too it.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by VeriSexy

The Civic GX has a 1.7-liter, 4-cylinder engine and starts at $21,670. Buyers can take advantage of a $2,000 federal tax deduction for alternative fuel vehicles.

now thats sexy

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Wow that's cool but like the article says only as a commuter car.

If governments demand all gas stations to also have natural gas fueling systems, then it will work out just fine

[Tango]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Wow that's cool but like the article says only as a commuter car.

a good 50% of city people use their cars almost exclusively for that purpose though

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by simple simon

now thats sexy

Mercedes making one too..........

Mercedes-Benz E 200 NGT: The most powerful natural-gas-driven saloon ever


The Mercedes-Benz E 200 NGT made its debut on Germany's roads in the spring of last year. In mid-2004, availability of this clean-running variant of the E-Class, which cuts CO2 emissions by over 20 per cent and more than halves running costs, was extended to Austria, Italy, Sweden and Switzerland. A right-hand-drive version is due to become available for the Asian market from the middle of this year.
As well as making it one of the most cost-effective models in the Mercedes range, the 120-kW/163-hp four-cylinder engine under the bonnet of the bi fuel E 200 NGT also makes it the most powerful natural-gas-driven saloon currently in production. Natural-gas-powered vehicles are a key element of DaimlerChrysler's overall concept for reducing fuel consumption and CO2 emissions and for safeguarding a sustainable form of mobility.

The E 200 NGT (Natural Gas Technology) was developed in the Mercedes-Benz Technology Centre on the platform of the E 200 KOMPRESSOR. The four-cylinder powerplant has a power rating of 120 kW/163 hp and generates a peak torque of 240 Newton metres, figures which are both on a par with the E 200 KOMPRESSOR. Thanks to the elaborate solutions which have been used to integrate the additional technical componentry, power delivery, comfort, quality and safety have not been compromised in any way aboard the E 200 NGT.

The E 200 NGT with its bi-fuel petrol/natural-gas power unit complies with the same stringent EU 4 emissions limits met by the petrol-powered E 200 KOMPRESSOR. In natural-gas operating mode, emissions of carbon dioxide are cut by over 20 per cent compared to petrol operation.

Operating mode can be switched conveniently at the touch of a button

The E 200 NGT can be run on either natural gas or premium unleaded petrol, with the driver being free to decide which of the two drive sources should be deployed. The buttons in the multifunction steering wheel and the central display in the instrument cluster can be used to switch between natural-gas and petrol operation as required. Ensuring a smooth, jolt-free switch between modes is the task of a special electronic control circuit which orchestrates the changeover for each cylinder individually. A gauge in the instrument cluster's central display keeps the driver informed of the current level of gas in the reservoirs. Once the supply of gas has been exhausted , the system automatically switches back to petrol operation, so smoothly that the change is imperceptible to the vehicle's occupants. As soon as the reservoirs are refuelled with natural gas, the journey is automatically resumed in the gas operating mode.

Carefully honed modifications to the supercharged TWINPULSE engine

The supercharged TWINPULSE engine was modified by the addition of injector nozzles on the underside of the intake manifold. A pressure regulator with sensor and electromagnetic shut-off valve is fitted near the engine to regulate the supply of natural gas and maintain the required system pressure at a constant level. The reprogrammed engine electronics ensure seamless operation in both drive modes. The E 200 NGT distinguishes itself from comparable models, which often deliver poorer performance in natural-gas mode, by matching the sophisticated four-cylinder power unit's exemplary power and torque characteristics even when running on natural gas. This makes the E 200 NGT the most powerful saloon with a bi-fuel drive unit currently in production.

http://wwwsg.daimlerchrysler.com/SD7...-0-0-0,00.html

[Screaming]

sounds like a great deal

[Penthouse Tony]

Originally Posted by VeriSexy

If governments demand all gas stations to also have natural gas fueling systems, then it will work out just fine

Article says 8 hours to fill up. I don't have that time to hang out at a gas station. LOL can you imagine the lines?

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Article says 8 hours to fill up. I don't have that time to hang out at a gas station. LOL can you imagine the lines?

I am sure they will improve on that in a few years. It would at least take 10 years to have these type of natural gas refueling systems built into every gas station.

You can also go pretty far on one tank of gas, just remember to fill it every night

[hydro]

I'm still waiting for my sperm powered car

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by hydro

I'm still waiting for my sperm powered car

Well USA gets most natural gas from Canada, better than oil from the Middle East anyday.

[iwantchixx]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Article says 8 hours to fill up. I don't have that time to hang out at a gas station. LOL can you imagine the lines?

The reason for that is because standard residential natural gas lines just do not have the pressure and volume per hour that industrial applications do. Fueling stations would most likely have industrial grade fuel pressures and line sizes to accomodate faster refueling.

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

The reason for that is because standard residential natural gas lines just do not have the pressure and volume per hour that industrial applications do. Fueling stations would most likely have industrial grade fuel pressures and line sizes to accomodate faster refueling.

Yeah don't think this guy will like to stand for 8 hours filling his Mercedes NGT



A look at current fuel prices in Germany quickly shows how the E 200 NGT enables drivers to save money. With a tank full of 18 kilograms of CNG, the vehicle can travel up to 300 kilometers, depending on the style of driving. At a price of about 71 cents per kilogram of CNG, the total fuel cost amounts to 12.81 euros. If the same distance were traveled with a car using premium gasoline, however, the fuel costs would be about two-and-a-half times as much (32.40 euros), assuming an average consumption of nine liters per 100 kilometers and a price of 1.20 euros per liter.
In other countries, the results of this kind of comparison would vary, of course, depending on the prices for the two types of fuel and the general price situation on the global market. But according to conservative estimates made by the engineers at Mercedes-Benz, the bivalent model?s higher sales price in comparison to an E 200 Kompressor with automatic transmission would be offset after just 36,000 kilometers. For cab drivers and others who drive long distances, the E 200 NGT could therefore pay off very quickly.

http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom...-0-0-0,00.html

[mardigras]

Originally Posted by hydro

I'm still waiting for my sperm powered car

Note to self:
Plan viagra car site, hope to not get sued by Mark Martin

[tony286]

I see big changes coming down the pike this is just the beginning

[Fire]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF
Article says 8 hours to fill up. I don't have that time to hang out at a gas station. LOL can you imagine the lines?

Do it at your home while you sleep!!

[MrJackMeHoff]

I just bought a H2.. Fuck economy.

[Tat2Jr]

What it didn't mention is we're almost at the peak amount of Natural Gas we can get out of the ground... From here on out it will be increasingly more expensive to get the last bits out.... same as oil, except we're suppose to be hitting the oil peak a little sooner (estimates are anywhere from this year to 15 years away, but the peak is coming).

I don't know if I swallow all of this, but here's something to scare the shit outta ya....
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[gecko]

Whoa.. very cool

[Pete-KT]

very cool

[Vitasoy]

The wave of the future

[arnette]

lots of people use them in austrlia, pretty much every petrol station sells natural gas.

the cars arent purpose built for the most part, but converted cars, my grandparents did it on their old car, they said it saved a fortune in fuel costs.

the government is also introducing H2 busses, there are a few of them driving around already

[Damian_Maxcash]

They have used gas in Australia and NZ for years, even on family cars.......

The home filling is new though.

[VeriSexy]

Originally Posted by damian2001

They have used gas in Australia and NZ for years, even on family cars.......

The home filling is new though.

WTF and we never hear about this in North America?