fifty one

This is where I see a flaw in judgement. You are not thinking from the customer's point of view... you're thinking from your own. You're basing it on what YOU make from your partners. Why the hell do I want to break even and pay YOU what YOU MAKE on this traffic? I want to make a profit, and I want to make that profit NOW, not in a month from now when rebills begin. The days of paying $35 to $50 per join are grinding to a halt. You'll notice that even Maxcash has stopped paying the flat $35 per join they used to pay, and are now paying "$25 to $35 per join" (see http://www.maximumcash.com/0407/pay_details.php). Like Maxcash, I won't pay $35 to $50 per join. Ever. It's not worth it, for reasons to numerous to go into.

Think for your customers, and not yourself. Otherwise just keep sending to programs that you're affiliates for...

Very nice, I'll have to check it out..

Stampede!!!!!!

You don't have to be a dick about it man.

If they make that much from the traffic sending it to affiliate programs that pay them per signup, why would they sell it to you for less??

Just so YOU can make a profit off of THEIR traffic?? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Also when buying traffic, you rarely make your profit "NOW" as you put it (unless you're buying traffic to send to a PPS program)
The profit is always in the rebills.
You should know what your per member value is and how much you can afford to pay for traffic, if you can't afford it then move on. No need to break things on your way out the door.

:2 cents:

This logic is flawed. You're assuming that the people paying them $35 per sign up aren't making a profit.

I love CJ

Thanks for all the traffic, I now LOVE posting on the CJ board its a blast.

Paying $35 per sign up, like I said in the first post, is on the way out the door. There are reasons for this, but I'm not going public with them.

I gave a very good example program, too. MaxCash has paid $35 per join since Adam and Eve walked the Garden of Eden. They recently changed that for those same reasons I don't wish to speak about.

CJ wants to charge $35 to $50 per join, based on their own numbers. That is crazy.

I'm not being a dick about it. That is not my intention. I'm just pointing out that it's not that great of a deal. They want to sell it to you for exactly what you'll make from it, based on their own experiences.

That's not very enticing.

It's just not worth responding to the stupidity of somebody like xpays. He's got personal issues with one of our executives that the two of them can work out.

To answer TheDoc, yes you're right. You'd have to have an average retention of 2.5 months and be able to basically monetize your traffic. Is that so difficult? A decent site retains at least that well and since we're now 1 1/2 months back sold on this spot (despite some people's efforts to de-rail the thread), I think both old and new customers see the value.

Thanks to everyone else. :-)

NEW floating ad? Fuck, welcome to 5 years ago.

nastydollars.com
trafficcashgold.com
realitycash.com
topbucks.com
silvercash.com
bangbrosonline.com
dollarmachine.com
python.com

Those are all programs that pay $35 or more per join. There a TONS more, these are just the ones I could think of within 60 seconds.
Maybe PPS will go the way of the do-do bird one day, but as long as it's still here why would they sell their traffic for less than they can make with it sending it to programs like the ones above?

They're selling it for what you'd make from it if you're an affiliate. I don't think they're targeting affiliates, they're targeting paysite owners.

If nastydollars can afford to pay $35 per signup and make a profit, then they can buy CJ traffic and make a profit....or at least that's the logic behind their pricing.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to de-rail the thread. That is not my intention at all.

But waiting 2.5 months to turn a profit in this business just isn't worth it in my opinion.

We'll assume you're back ordered 1.5 months, as stated above. Congratulations.

I personally advertise in a number of places with much lower average costs per click and turn an immediate profit. I know there are many others who do the same.

I'm sure you guys have great traffic, I just think you're a little too proud of it for my personal tastes.

We've purchased campaigns from CJTraffic in the past and had better than 1:250 conversions.

I'll be running an active segment for this campaign. We'll know exact demographics for every visitor referred.

After speaking with Marc, I learned that more than 75% of the clicks we expect to receive will be from the US, and I expect around 15% Canadian. (generic geotargeting).

That's the difference. Most traffic we receive from TGP's is around 25% US. US traffic from free adult sites converts around 1:50 - 1:62. Of course US traffic from paysites converts much better.


The high percentage of US visitors that will be referred makes this campaign smart.

Maybe the guys from CJtraffic have time to better exlpain.

PPS programs usually need longer than that to turn a profit on affiliate traffic. That's just the way it is.

Everyone has different business models.

:2 cents:

then you must have missed all of the non-personal quotes i have in this thread. you are welcome for the bumps and i do not recall making any personal comments. you must have confused me with the 20 other webmasters who think your thread title, offer, and math are funny.

since when are inferences about copyright infringement on one of your sites, comparisons to other click vendors, and pointing out threats from your off-shore shell's bosses boss considered personal?

:winkwink:

hold-on your outsourced labor is drafting your reply over at babblefish

Like you were around back then. They started paying that kind of money in late 99 or early 2000, before that it was 27 bucks or so per payout, the only way they paid over that was on volume numbers.

PPS programs can't make money without large volume, the margins are too slim. There's nothing mysterious in the fact that if your volume drops below a certain point you start to lose money since you don't have the outbound traffic to send off that you used to have.

Comparing yourself to Maxcash is rather over the top.

Now back to the CJ traffic drama....

while the floating ads thing is cool, i guess....i am glad you all are on avnads.com now, gives me a chance to try it out for a day without spending thousands of dollars to realize toy sites don't sell well with you

Stop making sense Kimmy......this is GFY dammit

Traffic is worth what people will pay for it, no more, no less. That's a simple economic law that seems to be incomprehensible for half of this industry.

The egotistical comparison just rubbed my feathers the wrong way entirely though.

was this for sex toy traffic? and the fleshlight is primarily targetted towards men right?

just wondering, trying to get an idea on what my campaigns might be like

sometimes when I cant sleep, I like to rub my balls

We run editorials across the CJ network month after month. I can tell you that our conversion ratios have never exceed 1/75, and this is counting 1st page uniques. CJ produces the most joins and best ROI of any of our advertising partners, bar none.

Man, where to start. First off, Xpays, if you've got such a beef, we can certainly turn this into the thread you're hoping to.... or, we could start a Marc Vs. Xpays thread which is probably a better idea. I'll gladly go toe to toe with you or anyone else in the biz. See, I've got this cool thing working for me: honesty and integrity. So other than spending a great deal of time on this, I've got nothing to loose. You want to make some concrete allegations, go nuts. I'll back EVERYTHING we do up with proof. We're not the shady fucks you seem to think we are. I started CJ over six years ago. I've put my heart and soul into it.

Now, to the accusations. Here's a newsflash: 99% of our spots we won't sell to someone who's looking to send traffic to a program. We only sell to the site owners. You're ALL RIGHT that it's a long shot to buy our traffic to send to sponsor programs and make a profit. That's why we won't sell it to you. Wanna see the ICQ logs of people asking us to do this and me turning them away? I'll dig'em up if you want.

The people that make money with us are the site owners because they make their profits on the retention. As for your example in mathmatical ability, you're actually not that far off. Most of our customers charge in the 29.95 range and average 2.5 months of retention. They don't offer trials b/c we advise them not to. Of course we are picky about who we'll sell ads to. It does have to be a quality site. 2 reasons for this:

1) what good is making a quick sale of the customer is dissapointed with the results? As you can see by the customers of ours who are sticking up for us, we've got happy customers.

2) we give a fuck about our fans. We want them to be happy too. You don't grow to 40,000,000 unique visitors a month on word of mouth by pissing off your fanbase.

who's "marc"?

edit- saw sig

only the founder of ConsumptionJunction.com

Forgot a couple things. Xpays talked about how different programs report differently. Very accurate. That's why I track all outgoing clicks myself. Then at the end of every month I look at how much money we got paid. Then I divided that by what they're paying per join. That's an accurate conversion ratio AND this system can be used to put all the programs we work with on equal footing. Differences in reporting, payouts, shaving, nothing matters. We tracked X clicks. They paid us $y. They pay Z per join. Take y/z/x. That's how you get an ACCURATE conversion rate.

Donovan also posted something about programs buying traffic from us. Yup, happens all the time. You're right. They do make more money that way. They also get more of our traffic. We only send 25% of our traffic to affiliate relationships.

Now, Xpays, you act like you know so much. Here's a tip. Spend 10 minutes reading www.cjtraffic.com. Just entertaining to watch someone act like they know so much when the responses to 90% of your accusations are up there ready for anyone to read.

They calculate what they make per click and mark it up 20% or so. You also have to remember they are in bonus mode on most sponsors. BUT there traffic is good so if you want to increase your join base they are there for you. Pretty good deal if it works for you. Us affiliates are mostly donating to the CJ x-mas party though when we buy.

Have Rick Latona apologize here without remorse and insincerity and all beef is kobe with truffle oil :thumbsup

Marc, there is no need to be hostile.

Btw, it is great reading your posts and the way you represent your company. Perhaps, I rubbed you wrong, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I am confused now. Who owns ConsumptionJunction?

marc, paul and rick

i only knew of rick sorry.

xpays, it is painfully obvious you have problems with someone at cj or the company itself, and it is also obvious how immature you are acting in here...while I am sure CJ appreciates the bump and thread views, it is making you look extremely bad

while I also have my beefs with cj, they are on a personal level and would never imagine bringing them out continuously on the boards...i said my peace one time, everyone knows where I stand, and that is that

if you have something to say about cj, come out and say it very directly and give reasons for it, i know marc likes a nice debate and would probably welcome your stance/opinion with open arms

fact is, you are making yourself look like the bad guy in here, not CJ....

You did rub me the wrong way. From the way I read it, you were fairly dripping with hostility. Believe it or not, I tried as I always do, to hold my resultant hostility in check.

I haven't read the thread you linked to about your beef with Rick because I don't care. It has just as much to do with the day to day operations of CJ and CJTraffic as Rick Latona does. Extremely little.

This is no dig on Rick by any means. Rick is my best friend and my business partner. He was my boss at the hosting company we worked for before I started CJ. He actually registered ConsumptionJunction.com for me because I hadn't been fully trained on the hosting company's system at the time.

All that said, as the person that's known Rick the longest of anyone in the biz, I'll certainly agree the guy has been known the rub people the wrong way. He's a strong personality. While that bugs the shit out of some people, I cherish it. He's the driving force in our partnership that has always pushed us to make more of our company and more of ourselves.

For the purposes of this thread, and CJ and CJTraffic, if you've got a beef with Rick, take it up with him. He's a big boy and can handle himself. But, do not make the mistake of translating your issues with Rick to into beefs with our company.

I run ConsumptionJunction and CJTraffic.com. If you've got any issues with either of these, I'm your man. Just as we always have, we'll gladly address any complaints or concerns anyone has. And we'll be happy to do so in a public forum should you desire. I do get a bit hurt when a customer is pissed because I bust my ass to make sure my customers are happy. That said, if they're pissed I must have fucked up somehow so I always welcome the chance to make things right.

well said.

Your experiences with Rick sound a lot better than ours and it is refreshing to see Consumption Junction presented in a fashion that is straight forward. The hype of cats burning and yes our Paris Hilton and Rick Salomon Sex Video, were how I used to think of your brand.

Nicely Done CJ..looks really good

Can you target u.s. Paris traffic ?

Would love to do that, but it is way out of my budget.

fuck politics. if we can work something out that is not ppc we can enable you with a custom front-end on one of our list of domains that you can choose from. evan @ xpays

http://HotelHeiress.com is the site. We have quality url's to choose from. Will consider some sort of hybrid as well if you have ideas.

emailing you now.

irony always leads to big deals and makes things interesting :winkwink:

niiiiiice!!

866-666-Evan :thumbsup

sending you the list as well so you can preview...

Now that everybody's back to happy, the birds are chirping and there's honey dripping from the flowers...ahem.

Let's get back to talking about the wonderful world of floating ads from CJTraffic.com !! :)

P.S. Thanks to all of our awesome customers who got our back in this thread. It's always awesome to see people, unheeded and unasked jumping up to defend someone they buy from.

I wanted to jump in on this thread since we just started advertising with CJ and have had nothing but good sucsess. #1 We ran 2 video sponsorships in April and was supposed to recieve around 34,000 clicks in a month...only 2 weeks in and we have already received over 52,000 with 108 memberships. We didn't have to wait for these to convert and retain them for 2.5 months; they have paid for themselves right away! Give these guys good creatives and listen to what they have to say and you will convert...bottom line! #2 they will go out of their way (even in the middle of the night) to make sure your spots working and doing what they say it will do! I messed up bad and shot them the wrong linking url and they got up in the middle of the night to fix it! What more could I ask for?.....I asked! Everytime I need their help or have questions they were very fast and to the point on how to correct it. Marc and Z will go out of their way to make sure you are well taken care of!....Just my 2 cents!

Is there a reason that I never see cjbucks.com sites being advertised on CJ?

Nice work -- those ads drive me nuts, but I'm sure you guys and your clients will do well with them. :)