New Florida GUN Law... Common Sense or Prelude to Wild West in the East?

[Greg B]

I had always thought that this was the law. It used to be til someone changed it. No one told the criminals though.
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Florida approves ?force with force? measure
Jeb Bush signs bill permitting potentially deadly self-defenseThe Associated Press
Updated: 7:51 p.m. ET April 26, 2005TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - With a National Rifle Association lobbyist at his side, Gov. Jeb Bush signed a law Tuesday to make it clear that people have a right to meet ?force with force? to defend themselves on the street.


The measure, which passed the Legislature overwhelmingly earlier this year, says that people who are under attack do not have to retreat before responding. They have the right to ?meet force with force, including deadly force if they reasonably believe it is necessary to do so.?

Florida residents already have that right in their homes. The bill, which takes effect Oct. 1, extends the right to public spaces, such as the street or a place of business.

Supporters said the measure brings Florida in line with a number of other states.

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?When you?re in a position where you?re being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense,? Bush said.

The measure was the NRA?s top priority this year, said the group?s lobbyist, Marion Hammer. ?Now, the law and their government is on the side of law-abiding people and victims, rather than on the side of criminals,? she said.

?Wild West? fears
Opponents of the bill warned that it would lead to a ?Wild West? atmosphere in Florida, where gun-toting people would have shootouts in public places simply because they could. No one will ever back down, opponents argued.

?You are telling people when they are in the midst of an emotional moment ... you can stand your ground until death happens,? Rep. Dan Gelber, a Democrat, said during House debate on the bill earlier this month.

But Republican Rep. Dennis Baxley, the bill?s sponsor in the House, said the measure wouldn?t result in free-for-all gun battles, in part because of laws that prevent people from carrying guns in many instances, such as into a stadium or a bar.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[KRL]

I think its great. Now if people fuck with you they'll know they're more likely to get killed.

Shoot first, ask questions later. Sounds good to me.

[Greg B]

KRL that's the way it used to be well on up to the late 1950's.

Not to say it's THE way to end crime because the Civil War did in more Americans than anything else.

They're using Florida as a lab experiment. If more black people start killing more white people then the law will be ended faster than a fat belly dancer's act.

If women start killing more men it'll end faster than that.

As long as enemies of the state can be murdered and covered up by this law it will last.

On the other hand, if this is indeed a good step up for the common man then we'll see massive drops in robberies, battery charges, rapes.

It goes into effect on Oct. 1 It will be a good year for the statistics to show what happens.

Problem is, Florida cops have a rotten reputation for shooting first. A bad cop is now likely not to get to trial

[TheSenator]

Most states have this law.....No Big deal.....

In Jersey, it is called self defense.....but we have the strictest gun control laws in the nation.

Imagine Jersey with lose gun controls laws.....OMG....

[smack]

common sense. makes moving to FL all the more appealing.

[Joe Citizen]

I think it's great!

I'm looking forward to more dead Americans.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Most states have this law.....No Big deal.....

In Jersey, it is called self defense.....but we have the strictest gun control laws in the nation.

Imagine Jersey with lose gun controls laws.....OMG....

Yeah that's all well and good but you made the point right there with the strict gun control laws.

Florida has no gun control laws. If you have driver's license or a friend you can get a gun. Add liquor, dope, and criminals and you have a recipe for wild west wonderment.

Gun laws in this country are stupid. We need people laws not gun laws. Yet trying to get people to act like there's a God has been the toughest thing to do.

We've beat fire, tamed the wind, sailed oceans, ventured into space but given half a chance we'll beat the shit out of one another.

Maybe the idea of a robot army will solve the problem.

[pornguy]

Just remember one thing with the shoot first theory. Dead men tell no tails. No matter how many dead men there are.

[michel]

This could lead to more aggressive criminals, pulling the trigger even sooner

[Matt_WildCash]

Call me stupid but its nice to live in a country where we don't have to worry about guns in every 5th persons house or pocket.

[bringer]

Originally Posted by Joe Citizen

I think it's great!

I'm looking forward to more dead Americans.

im surprised to hear you say such a thing

[xclusive]

sort of evens things out

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by michel

This could lead to more aggressive criminals, pulling the trigger even sooner

Very good point there Michel!

We've got enough bad asses out here in Los Angeles and in Florida as it is.

Right now we're dealing with some sort of nut shooting at people on the freeway it appears.

[ajapub]

?When you?re in a position where you?re being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense,? Bush said.

That's very true! If you've ever been in that kind of situation, you'll know what he's talking about.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by smack

common sense. makes moving to FL all the more appealing.

Are you retarded? Let see, me and you are having an argument. I say "Fuck it you're an asshole" and I shoot you. Cops come and aske me what happen "Um officer he tried to attack me so I was just protecting myself." Officers say "Ok cased closed" Yeah real good law there.

Anyone that thinks people won't try to goad people into trying to start a fight so they have an "excuse" to use their gun on them are crazy.

When someone can show me a link to someone in Florida actually going to prison for defending themselves them maybe I'll change me mind.

What next for Jeb Bush, stopping crack deals by making crack legal? How about stopping people from running red lights by getting rid of traffic lights. Yeah that's the ticket.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by ajapub

?When you?re in a position where you?re being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense,? Bush said.

That's very true! If you've ever been in that kind of situation, you'll know what he's talking about.

BS I've lived in Florida before if I was threaten and I beat the fuck out the guy without running first I NEVER would have been prosecuted. Show me ONE case where this has happened.

[swedguy]

I saw it on the news couple of days ago and it's a step closer to old Wild Wild West.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Joe Citizen

I think it's great!

I'm looking forward to more dead Americans.

Expected no less from you

God side effect : more dwellings available for the old geeks ..., unless they get shot also in " self-defense"

[MacDaddyPlaya]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Are you retarded? Let see, me and you are having an argument. I say "Fuck it you're an asshole" and I shoot you. Cops come and aske me what happen "Um officer he tried to attack me so I was just protecting myself." Officers say "Ok cased closed" Yeah real good law there.

Anyone that thinks people won't try to goad people into trying to start a fight so they have an "excuse" to use their gun on them are crazy.

When someone can show me a link to someone in Florida actually going to prison for defending themselves them maybe I'll change me mind.

What next for Jeb Bush, stopping crack deals by making crack legal? How about stopping people from running red lights by getting rid of traffic lights. Yeah that's the ticket.

Gator - Thanks for someone bringing some intelligence and common sense to this post. What a fuckn joke this is. Just another one of the dumb ass Bush boys cow towing to the NRA and all their lobby money. Could it be any more transparent?

[Phoenix]

now you need two guns..one for you..and one to plant on your victim

[GotGauge]

http://www.moccw.org/map.html

[CaroMark]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Problem is, Florida cops have a rotten reputation for shooting first. A bad cop is now likely not to get to trial

Hi Greg, I have lived in Florida for most of my life and never heard anything like this. I have always had a good opinion of our Law Enforcement within the state, even when I didn't agree with the paper they were handing me.

Oh and btw the law makes good common sense to me also.

[BVF]

It needs to be like that...Too bad I'm a felon and can't legally own a gun. But I CAN own a high powered rechargeable cordless nail gun and carry it anywhere I want. You do NOT want to get shot up with a nail gun.

[Penrod]

"Did You Just Threaten Me?"

[theking]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyPlaya

Gator - Thanks for someone bringing some intelligence and common sense to this post. What a fuckn joke this is. Just another one of the dumb ass Bush boys cow towing to the NRA and all their lobby money. Could it be any more transparent?

I have not read the law...but I suspect it is "meet force with equal force" as that is the case in most states. In other words...you will not be allowed to shoot someone because they punched/attacked you.

[Kre8t0r]

Originally Posted by KRL

I think its great. Now if people fuck with you they'll know they're more likely to get killed.

Shoot first, ask questions later. Sounds good to me.

That reminds me.. I need to renew my permit. As for the people crying "wild west" that new law doesn't really change much as you may think. I was a pawnbroker for 6 years and carried a gun on my hip daily. I have been told by local police what to say and do in case of something happening where I had to shoot someone in self defense.

The old "castle law" was bullshit! If you are in your home you do NOT have to flee whereas on the streets the way the old law was written you HAD to try to run if at all possible. I feel if you really think your life is in danger you should have the right to defend yourself no matter where you are home or on the streets.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by theking

I have not read the law...but I suspect it is "meet force with equal force" as that is the case in most states. In other words...you will not be allowed to shoot someone because they punched/attacked you.

Yeah but you could always say "I thought he had a gun" or "He said he had a gun" Who is going to contridict that? The only other witness is dead.

[Kre8t0r]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Yeah but you could always say "I thought he had a gun" or "He said he had a gun" Who is going to contridict that? The only other witness is dead.

And if you really thought "he had a gun" you could use deadly force with the old law. Just remember the key phrase when the police get there... "I was in fear for my life officer, I thought he was going to attack me". Unless they can find hard proof that's not the case 99% of those cases are closed there. One thing with the old law though, say if one of the attackers "homies" decides to tell a different story you were in a position where you could be charged and convicted of manslaughter for defending your life..

I say LOCK AND LOAD damnit!

[tony286]

i thought these people support the whole culture of life bullshit

[theking]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Yeah but you could always say "I thought he had a gun" or "He said he had a gun" Who is going to contridict that? The only other witness is dead.

If you exceed what is the law in mosts states "equal force" then you will probably have to pay a consequence...as you do in most states.

[Giorgio_Xo]

A well regarded economics professor from the University of Chicago decided to explore the reasons why the the crime rate in the U.S. has steadily dropped since the early to mid-90's. After 2 years of analysis, the professor came to the conclusion that abortion was the primary reason why crime has gone down across the board. As abortion on demand became readily available in the early 70's, people from lower economic classes greatly reduced the amount of unwanted pregnancies. These economic classes typically produce the vast majority of hopeful criminals. As that generation is coming of age, there are less of them to commit crimes.

More abortions, less guns.

[Kre8t0r]

Originally Posted by Giorgio_Xo

A well regarded economics professor from the University of Chicago decided to explore the reasons why the the crime rate in the U.S. has steadily dropped since the early to mid-90's. After 2 years of analysis, the professor came to the conclusion that abortion was the primary reason why crime has gone down across the board. As abortion on demand became readily available in the early 70's, people from lower economic classes greatly reduced the amount of unwanted pregnancies. These economic classes typically produce the vast majority of hopeful criminals. As that generation is coming of age, there are less of them to commit crimes.

More abortions, less guns.

Well lets just hope you have a doctor with a sharp scapel next to you if anyone ever tries to jack you... Also note it's not wise to bring a knife to a gunfight from what I hear..

[DaddysGirl]

Originally Posted by Giorgio_Xo

A well regarded economics professor from the University of Chicago decided to explore the reasons why the the crime rate in the U.S. has steadily dropped since the early to mid-90's. After 2 years of analysis, the professor came to the conclusion that abortion was the primary reason why crime has gone down across the board. As abortion on demand became readily available in the early 70's, people from lower economic classes greatly reduced the amount of unwanted pregnancies. These economic classes typically produce the vast majority of hopeful criminals. As that generation is coming of age, there are less of them to commit crimes.

More abortions, less guns.

Interesting....

[Cassie]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Most states have this law.....No Big deal.....

In Jersey, it is called self defense.....but we have the strictest gun control laws in the nation.

Imagine Jersey with lose gun controls laws.....OMG....

you also have to make sure that the person you kill is actually in your home and does not end up on your front step or you're charged.

[kmanrox]

you americans have too much stress in your life... in thailand you bodybag someone you pay 5-0 about $1,000-$2,000usd and you're free

anybody that owes me more than $2k money that wants a free all expense trip to thailand, please contact my PA for arrangements =)

[KMR Stitch]

Have fun at intenext guys =) No need to shoot someone =P

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Are you retarded? Let see, me and you are having an argument. I say "Fuck it you're an asshole" and I shoot you. Cops come and aske me what happen "Um officer he tried to attack me so I was just protecting myself." Officers say "Ok cased closed" Yeah real good law there.

what an idiot statement. you'll go to jail if you can't prove your case.

[broke]

Originally Posted by Greg B

If women start killing more men it'll end faster than that.

Are you kidding me?

The law would be lauded by NOW as the step that finally allowed women the right to defend themselves. No state or federal politican would fuck with the group that hands them half of the vote...

[12clicks]

you heard the same idiot predictions when florida passed the right to carry law.
the predictions never came true.
imagining that we'll be safer when only criminals have guns is silly.

[Probono]

Arizona has some of the most liberal gun laws in the country and we allow self defense without retreat. Does not seem to be a problem here.

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Yeah but you could always say "I thought he had a gun" or "He said he had a gun" Who is going to contridict that? The only other witness is dead.

When the cops show up and the dead guy doesnt have a gun, guess who is going to jail?

Hint: It wont be the dead guy.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Kre8t0r

And if you really thought "he had a gun" you could use deadly force with the old law. !

So then this new law isn't necessary then. Thanks for making my point. wodner how much florida taxpaye money was wasted on this. Meanwhile that money could have been spent putting in new toilets in schools in downtown Miami that haven't worked since the Carter administration.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by MrPheer

When the cops show up and the dead guy doesnt have a gun, guess who is going to jail?

Hint: It wont be the dead guy.

Hint : And the NRA will hire me a fine lawyer and I will get off

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Kre8t0r

And if you really thought "he had a gun" you could use deadly force with the old law. Just remember the key phrase when the police get there... "I was in fear for my life officer, I thought he was going to attack me". Unless they can find hard proof that's not the case 99% of those cases are closed there. One thing with the old law though, say if one of the attackers "homies" decides to tell a different story you were in a position where you could be charged and convicted of manslaughter for defending your life..

I say LOCK AND LOAD damnit!

I can see it now. Just like NY State, rich and influential get off in situations like this.

[crockett]

I always assumed that's the way it was anyway.. If I'm being attacked in my house or somewhere else and my life is in danger I'm not going to be to worried about "will I get in trouble for this".

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Hint : And the NRA will hire me a fine lawyer and I will get off

yeah right!!!

if you dont see a gun, its best not to shoot

even if the guy has a knife or club, if he's not in stabbing or swinging distance, he's not a threat to you yet

"I thought he had a gun" may work for cops, but it aint gonna work for you.

Please, go take a CCW course so someone explains how the gun laws work to you.

[KMR Stitch]

Originally Posted by MrPheer

yeah right!!!

if you dont see a gun, its best not to shoot

even if the guy has a knife or club, if he's not in stabbing or swinging distance, he's not a threat to you yet

"I thought he had a gun" may work for cops, but it aint gonna work for you.

Please, go take a CCW course so someone explains how the gun laws work to you.

The CCW course basicly explains when you can shoot correct?

Only when a felony is being commited or to stop a felony or Rape

[Greg B]

There's one thing we're missing here. Probably cause most americans don't live in the country anymore.

Animals.

The right to keep and bear arms ain't just for people who go amok, it's also and primarily for defense against animal attacks.

Back in the old days bears, wolves, etc. attacked on a regular basis. You had to be armed. Nowadays bears ain't a problem cause we damn near wiped them out ( and for good reason too ) but you should read the daily animal attack stories and reports. It's an epidemic! Especially with wild dogs. Every freakin day in the hundreds. No one's talking about it but the press is usually local with the story. So a guy ain't got a gun but he has a dog. Only he can tell the dog not to bite you. He doesn't, he and the dog gotta go. He might have another dog around.

It's an iffy thing and it's better to be juried by 12 than carried by 6.

[jukeboxfrank]

I don't know what the law will do yet, but if it makes 1 person think twice about
jacking a car I say GREAT.....

[sickkittens]

Doesn't Colorado and a couple other states have this? I heard in CO you can shoot someone if they're on your property - one of those weird laws that no one really takes advantage of.