Graphic Design - Does it come natural or can it be learned? - GoFuckYourself.com

mkx · 04-27-2005, 10:56 AM

I am thinking of taking a part time course somewhere to learn some graphic design (logos, websites, photoshop, etc). I never really the artistic type but know a good design when I see one. My question is if I can learn decent to advanced graphic design in school or does most of it come natural. Would I be better off teaching myself using internet resources or would a hands on experience have a better effect.

I hope I can get some advise, stories, or recommendations some good courses.

Roald · 04-27-2005, 10:59 AM

You can learn to use PS but you have to at least have some creativity in you I guess ;)))

MetaMan · 04-27-2005, 11:00 AM

i started about 10 years ago, all self taught and i have never read a book teaching me ANYTHING.

when you go through the steps yourself you learn much better, but it takes more time obviously.

the thing about going to school is that they will teach you how to design like everyone else, successful designers take years and years to develop and fit a style, something which school cannot teach you.

also if the teachers were half decent at the internet they would not be teaching it in school. the traffic resource to learn "how? and why?" is also not there.

i have a friend who recently finished a 3 year course and cannot find a job anywhere.

unless you were to go into a school with a SOLID motion graphics program imo otherwise you would be wasting your time. (unless it was just for plain knowlegde)

Roald · 04-27-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

i started about 10 years ago, all self taught and i have never read a book teaching me ANYTHING.

when you go through the steps yourself you learn much better, but it takes more time obviously.

the thing about going to school is that they will teach you how to design like everyone else, successful designers take years and years to develop and fit a style, something which school cannot teach you.

also if the teachers were half decent at the internet they would not be teaching it in school. the traffic resource to learn "how? and why?" is also not there.

i have a friend who recently finished a 3 year course and cannot find a job anywhere.

unless you were to go into a school with a SOLID motion graphics program imo otherwise you would be wasting your time. (unless it was just for plain knowlegde)

same here, all by myself trial and error.

tre sandman · 04-27-2005, 11:06 AM

True metaman, very true!!!

Fletch XXX · 04-27-2005, 11:06 AM

i took fine arts in college, can paint and sculpt and draw, but none of that has anything to do with web design.

the only thing that i really use from art school, would be color theory and balance.

Fletch XXX · 04-27-2005, 11:08 AM

but i never took a design or photoshop class... they didnt have such shit when i was in college

you either painted or drew

eroswebmaster · 04-27-2005, 11:09 AM

I am self taught as well and still to this day do not consider myself a "designer."
Anyway, I think school will teach you the basic concepts you will need in the mainstream world...a worl where all sites pretty much have the same flow. You're trying to sell someone something, but it's not a hard sell.
Where as here in adult, the salesmanship is a bit different.
Everyone thinks they can just throw a banner together, a gallery or tour together and that's all they need.
They couldn't be further from the truth.
There is a definite method to the madness when designing for adult to get those conversions.
I'm still learning those methods to this day. It takes time, testing, patience and a little bit of luck. It can be learned...but not everyone can learn it.

Serge Litehead · 04-27-2005, 11:09 AM

It takes experience to do good designs.
I think most learning courses teach some techniques for the graphic applications and some very basics.
To do real good in design you must have art school education which teaches you principals in graphics and design, understanding colors and shades, understanding perspectives.

Things come more naturally when you know "how to" do them - experience.

If you're very determined and persistent there's nothing stopping you to learn it on your own and do nice.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 11:10 AM

Long term ya goto be a natural if you expect to make a living at it.

Verbal · 04-27-2005, 11:14 AM

I think taking a class is the best thing you can do if you're just getting started. I don't think so much for the 'art' part, but more for the technical use of Photoshop. I took a class 5 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did.

Not saying that it wouldn't hurt to have a decent eye for color and composition.

pornguy · 04-27-2005, 11:15 AM

Yes you can learn, and I think that everyone has some design talent in them.

But dont pay for a class, They are usually usless. I would just do the onling tutorials. They are free.

machinegunkelly · 04-27-2005, 11:21 AM

I dunno
my brother can use PS real good ,but uses the ugliest colour etc you've ever seen and the stuff just doesnt look " good " I guess you could say
" Sorry dave if you're reading up on your older brother "

I taught myself , but then you run into a bunch of problems that school would've probally taught me .

Its a mix of both , you can have amazing talent to make a site look good and then its totally useless as a website because you don't know how to make it work like it should .

If you think you can do it .. TRY it .

The only way to find out really .

eroswebmaster · 04-27-2005, 11:22 AM

raulph go to this site http://www.designsbymark.com and buy all 3 of his CD/DVD's they are on clearance right now.
The Photoshop Tool Kit will teach you all the ins and outs of PS and some tricks...the other 2 will teach you some graphics tricks and how to work with photographs.
Now set up a laptop next to your main machine and watch the videos while you actually follow along with PS...now after that's all done if you feel like you still need to take a class then go for it but I highly doubt you will.

onno · 04-27-2005, 12:06 PM

You can learn anything if you want, the school is to get the concepts and learn how to do it, but nothing more. After this you need to try and try until you can do good thinks. If you born with a special skills on design maybe you will learn and get the practice in lower time, but if practice, pratice and more practice... so dont think that in two days you will be a master... maybe in 10 years ;)

alan-l · 04-27-2005, 12:16 PM

our main designer told me when we talk for the first time 'I don't sell Photoshop tutorials. I sell creativity' I had to hire that mofo!

I think that answers your question

Personally, I like what educated designers do, most good ones do some tight stuff, but as someone said above, they all look like made by the same person

mkx · 04-27-2005, 12:26 PM

I am doing this for knowledge, not to end up as an employee. I have a really good eye for a good design when I see one. However, for some reason when I take a look at what I designed or a website I made by myself, I don't see it as good, even though others do. It could be natural that I just do not have a good eye for anything of my own, does anyone feel the same?

Eros, would that video you recommended teach me enough to not need a class? Is that what you were trying to point out?

In regards to teaching myself online, it may be harder as I do not have the dicipline. I will probably get distracted and do something more important. If I registered for a school, I know that I have invested money into it and will pay more attention and take it more seriously. Everyone has different ways of effective learning.

Thank you all for your advise, I have a much better understanding of what it takes

mkx · 04-27-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

raulph go to this site http://www.designsbymark.com and buy all 3 of his CD/DVD's they are on clearance right now.

Do you have a copy yourself?

eroswebmaster · 04-27-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulph

Do you have a copy yourself?

Yes I own all 3 videos.
The thing is the tool kit videos will teach you about all the tools in PS and what they do...once you understand that much you can start to do just about anything.
Will it replace a class? Honestly I don't know...never took a class. I've bought books, played around with tutorials online..but nothing ever taught me so much about the program itself like that one product of Mark's did.

smack · 04-27-2005, 12:41 PM

you can be taught certain aspects of it. but to be honest it comes kind of naturally. things like balance, and other design elements are easily learned, but for me it has always been a very natural process, even before i took any classes to incorporate things like that.

i've also been very into art since a young age.

Barefootsies · 04-27-2005, 12:50 PM

You can take a class to learn the fundementals of the programs like Premiere, PS and alike, but the drive, and success comes from you spending hours fucking around with it yourself.

I am like some of the other's here. Learned PS, Premiere, html, and all of it through trial and error, friends, and reading. No formal training. But when you learn on your own, you will have a steep learning curve, so make sure you have the desire, and drive as well as patience to work through it. Newer versions of PS have he backstep, there is no reason you can't teach yourself.

You do need to be creatively inclined to make anything not like the other schmoe's who just are one big group of carbon copy lazies. But that is something you yourself will have to judge for yourself.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulph

I am doing this for knowledge, not to end up as an employee. I have a really good eye for a good design when I see one. However, for some reason when I take a look at what I designed or a website I made by myself, I don't see it as good, even though others do. It could be natural that I just do not have a good eye for anything of my own, does anyone feel the same?

Eros, would that video you recommended teach me enough to not need a class? Is that what you were trying to point out?

In regards to teaching myself online, it may be harder as I do not have the dicipline. I will probably get distracted and do something more important. If I registered for a school, I know that I have invested money into it and will pay more attention and take it more seriously. Everyone has different ways of effective learning.

Thank you all for your advise, I have a much better understanding of what it takes

You will always hate your work.
Nothing comes out the way ya intended.
Everyones stuff will always seem better.
Nothing will hurt you more than when someone says your work sucks and you will have to learn to take opinions and throw em out the door.

Welcome to the self destructive pattern many good designers must face.
Oh and the cheap labor I almost forgot to ad. Cuz design is "Soooo Easy" and "Anyone" can do it is what most people think.
You can have all the tutorials in the world but one thing ya wont get from them is discipline and consistance.
What it comes down to is your own mind being able to handle it.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 12:55 PM

Also...

Your likely to loose your mind if your serious...

MetaMan · 04-27-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Also...

Your likely to loose your mind if your serious...

went through it many many times,

there are few in the world who can match what is in someones head when it comes to design,

that is why i laugh my ass off when people ask "why doesnt my site convert?" and i visit the page and it is a wannabe design.

everyone who uses outsourced design i laugh at.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 12:58 PM

People will also tell ya to take drug's and pharmacy shit after a while, cuz what ever comes out of your mouth will be insane ramblings.

But they will be the same people that pay you and some others will copy your work and watch your creations with such voracity they impersonate companies that want you to design for them just to get idea's.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 01:02 PM

But just remember after all that pressure your just a useless designer...
You shuld know your place.
You should shut the fuck up and listen to everyone elses fucked up crap.

AdultNex · 04-27-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

You will always hate your work.
Nothing comes out the way ya intended.
Everyones stuff will always seem better.
Nothing will hurt you more than when someone says your work sucks and you will have to learn to take opinions and throw em out the door.

Welcome to the self destructive pattern many good designers must face.
Oh and the cheap labor I almost forgot to ad. Cuz design is "Soooo Easy" and "Anyone" can do it is what most people think.
You can have all the tutorials in the world but one thing ya wont get from them is discipline and consistance.
What it comes down to is your own mind being able to handle it.

Very true, I'm the exact same way when it comes to doing layouts for myself (I've modified my mainstream studio website several times, with no satisfaction).

The only way you become better at design is if you continue practicing it everyday.

Also, there is no need to go out and spend money on so-called "Learn Photoshop in 48 hours" books. There are too many free resources for you to quickly pick up the Photoshop work area (www.good-tutorials.com).

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 04-27-2005, 01:03 PM

Now are you really sure ya want to do this?
Think real fucken hard.

Harder than you ever have in your life.

Fletch XXX · 04-27-2005, 01:03 PM

good luck man!

challenges are the only reason i wake up anymore.

Basic_man · 04-27-2005, 01:06 PM

You need some creativity, and some basic concepts.

mkx · 04-27-2005, 10:40 PM

Thanks again guys! Will take all comments into consideration

04-27-2005, 10:56 AM	#1
mkx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 4,001	Graphic Design - Does it come natural or can it be learned? I am thinking of taking a part time course somewhere to learn some graphic design (logos, websites, photoshop, etc). I never really the artistic type but know a good design when I see one. My question is if I can learn decent to advanced graphic design in school or does most of it come natural. Would I be better off teaching myself using internet resources or would a hands on experience have a better effect. I hope I can get some advise, stories, or recommendations some good courses.

04-27-2005, 10:59 AM	#2
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,888	You can learn to use PS but you have to at least have some creativity in you I guess ;))) __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| telegram: roaldr

04-27-2005, 11:00 AM	#3
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	i started about 10 years ago, all self taught and i have never read a book teaching me ANYTHING. when you go through the steps yourself you learn much better, but it takes more time obviously. the thing about going to school is that they will teach you how to design like everyone else, successful designers take years and years to develop and fit a style, something which school cannot teach you. also if the teachers were half decent at the internet they would not be teaching it in school. the traffic resource to learn "how? and why?" is also not there. i have a friend who recently finished a 3 year course and cannot find a job anywhere. unless you were to go into a school with a SOLID motion graphics program imo otherwise you would be wasting your time. (unless it was just for plain knowlegde) Last edited by MetaMan; 04-27-2005 at 11:01 AM..

04-27-2005, 11:06 AM	#5
tre sandman Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: trash can Posts: 113	True metaman, very true!!! __________________

04-27-2005, 11:06 AM	#6
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	i took fine arts in college, can paint and sculpt and draw, but none of that has anything to do with web design. the only thing that i really use from art school, would be color theory and balance. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

04-27-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	but i never took a design or photoshop class... they didnt have such shit when i was in college you either painted or drew __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

04-27-2005, 11:09 AM	#8
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	I am self taught as well and still to this day do not consider myself a "designer." Anyway, I think school will teach you the basic concepts you will need in the mainstream world...a worl where all sites pretty much have the same flow. You're trying to sell someone something, but it's not a hard sell. Where as here in adult, the salesmanship is a bit different. Everyone thinks they can just throw a banner together, a gallery or tour together and that's all they need. They couldn't be further from the truth. There is a definite method to the madness when designing for adult to get those conversions. I'm still learning those methods to this day. It takes time, testing, patience and a little bit of luck. It can be learned...but not everyone can learn it. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

04-27-2005, 11:09 AM	#9
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	It takes experience to do good designs. I think most learning courses teach some techniques for the graphic applications and some very basics. To do real good in design you must have art school education which teaches you principals in graphics and design, understanding colors and shades, understanding perspectives. Things come more naturally when you know "how to" do them - experience. If you're very determined and persistent there's nothing stopping you to learn it on your own and do nice. __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

04-27-2005, 11:10 AM	#10
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Long term ya goto be a natural if you expect to make a living at it. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

04-27-2005, 11:14 AM	#11
Verbal Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,420	I think taking a class is the best thing you can do if you're just getting started. I don't think so much for the 'art' part, but more for the technical use of Photoshop. I took a class 5 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did. Not saying that it wouldn't hurt to have a decent eye for color and composition.

04-27-2005, 11:15 AM	#12
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Yes you can learn, and I think that everyone has some design talent in them. But dont pay for a class, They are usually usless. I would just do the onling tutorials. They are free. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

04-27-2005, 11:21 AM	#13
machinegunkelly Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,285	I dunno my brother can use PS real good ,but uses the ugliest colour etc you've ever seen and the stuff just doesnt look " good " I guess you could say " Sorry dave if you're reading up on your older brother " I taught myself , but then you run into a bunch of problems that school would've probally taught me . Its a mix of both , you can have amazing talent to make a site look good and then its totally useless as a website because you don't know how to make it work like it should . If you think you can do it .. TRY it . The only way to find out really . __________________ dead.

04-27-2005, 11:22 AM	#14
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	raulph go to this site http://www.designsbymark.com and buy all 3 of his CD/DVD's they are on clearance right now. The Photoshop Tool Kit will teach you all the ins and outs of PS and some tricks...the other 2 will teach you some graphics tricks and how to work with photographs. Now set up a laptop next to your main machine and watch the videos while you actually follow along with PS...now after that's all done if you feel like you still need to take a class then go for it but I highly doubt you will. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

04-27-2005, 12:06 PM	#15
onno Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 732	You can learn anything if you want, the school is to get the concepts and learn how to do it, but nothing more. After this you need to try and try until you can do good thinks. If you born with a special skills on design maybe you will learn and get the practice in lower time, but if practice, pratice and more practice... so dont think that in two days you will be a master... maybe in 10 years ;) __________________

04-27-2005, 12:16 PM	#16
alan-l Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: look behind you Posts: 2,477	our main designer told me when we talk for the first time 'I don't sell Photoshop tutorials. I sell creativity' I had to hire that mofo! I think that answers your question Personally, I like what educated designers do, most good ones do some tight stuff, but as someone said above, they all look like made by the same person

04-27-2005, 12:26 PM	#17
mkx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 4,001	I am doing this for knowledge, not to end up as an employee. I have a really good eye for a good design when I see one. However, for some reason when I take a look at what I designed or a website I made by myself, I don't see it as good, even though others do. It could be natural that I just do not have a good eye for anything of my own, does anyone feel the same? Eros, would that video you recommended teach me enough to not need a class? Is that what you were trying to point out? In regards to teaching myself online, it may be harder as I do not have the dicipline. I will probably get distracted and do something more important. If I registered for a school, I know that I have invested money into it and will pay more attention and take it more seriously. Everyone has different ways of effective learning. Thank you all for your advise, I have a much better understanding of what it takes

04-27-2005, 12:41 PM	#20
smack Push Porn Like Weight. Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Inside .NET Posts: 10,652	you can be taught certain aspects of it. but to be honest it comes kind of naturally. things like balance, and other design elements are easily learned, but for me it has always been a very natural process, even before i took any classes to incorporate things like that. i've also been very into art since a young age. __________________ Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

04-27-2005, 12:50 PM	#21
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	You can take a class to learn the fundementals of the programs like Premiere, PS and alike, but the drive, and success comes from you spending hours fucking around with it yourself. I am like some of the other's here. Learned PS, Premiere, html, and all of it through trial and error, friends, and reading. No formal training. But when you learn on your own, you will have a steep learning curve, so make sure you have the desire, and drive as well as patience to work through it. Newer versions of PS have he backstep, there is no reason you can't teach yourself. You do need to be creatively inclined to make anything not like the other schmoe's who just are one big group of carbon copy lazies. But that is something you yourself will have to judge for yourself. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

04-27-2005, 12:55 PM	#23
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Also... Your likely to loose your mind if your serious... __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

04-27-2005, 12:58 PM	#25
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	People will also tell ya to take drug's and pharmacy shit after a while, cuz what ever comes out of your mouth will be insane ramblings. But they will be the same people that pay you and some others will copy your work and watch your creations with such voracity they impersonate companies that want you to design for them just to get idea's. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

04-27-2005, 01:02 PM	#26
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	But just remember after all that pressure your just a useless designer... You shuld know your place. You should shut the fuck up and listen to everyone elses fucked up crap. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

04-27-2005, 01:03 PM	#28
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Now are you really sure ya want to do this? Think real fucken hard. Harder than you ever have in your life. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

04-27-2005, 01:06 PM	#30
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	You need some creativity, and some basic concepts. __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

04-27-2005, 10:40 PM	#31
mkx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 4,001	Thanks again guys! Will take all comments into consideration