No problem, I don't work for peanuts, even for 50 peanuts :321GFY

51...

I said this would be a long thread :)

Pretty sure the rest of the country would be just fine.. Take a look at Alberta, they just reported yet ANOTHER surplus to the tune of 4.3 billion dollars this year.. Guess what, the federal government already absconded quite a bit of that to go to.. you guessed it... Quebec. I think you need to think again if you think the REST of the country would be in more trouble than Quebec if seperation took place.

"Bertha, I'm leaving you forever. I need my own space and I'm never coming back. But I hope you don't mind if I still come back for three meals a day and use your bank card.". Sounds really fair.

So basically you are saying that democracy is a joke? When people vote for the PQ, they KNOW IT'S A FUCKING PARTY THAT WANTS SOVEREIGNTY. If they don't want referendums, they should vote for a different party.

Now you are saying they are dumbasses. :1orglaugh

Fiestboy, only you, a true creme de la idiot, could compare a political election with a cesession. Are your parents brother and sister?

Yes sweetheart, I know I left you, but I need you and you need me. Even though I was the one who wanted to leave in the first place, and called you every name in the book and blamed everything on you, you should just take me back and pay my bills and be happy for it.

Realism. Look it up.

You didn't understand my post.

Imagine this :

Everyone in Quebec sells their CANADIAN DOLLARS.

Do you know what happens when millions of people sell their currency?

Now, we are in the "hypothetical" theory where the federal is stupid enough to say no if Quebec wants to keep the same currency.

There's more than enough Japanese in Banff to make up for it :P

:1orglaugh If you are that *confident* sure, go ahead, say no :winkwink:

Unfortunately, 'selling all your canadian dollars' wouldn't make a penny difference..
Wanna know why??? Cause all the currency is kept in the banks...
MAYBE if you started stockpiling cash in your basement..
you and every other separatist..
You MIGHT be able to make a little ripple in the Canadian economy...
but... seriously.. what a silly idea :)
hahahah

To my understanding, Canada did not agree to hold those referendums in order to just have another and another. The two we've already had were held in order to settle the issue. Having a federal election every 4 years is normal. Having new referendums isn't normal. When in Canadian history have we EVER had a referendum before the first one? Never.

As far as I'm concerned the issue is settled. You guys may continue crying foul about how it was done, but many Francophones also say it was done fairly and settled. Done, finito, over and out.

I say there won't be another referendum. You might push for it, but the other 30 million people in Canada who AREN'T god damned separatists (including the several million in Quebec itself) will certainly push back.

We need not continue this discussion. I know I have made my viewpoint clear, and your group seems to be into repeating yourselves ad nauseum now. There is nothing new in your argument that hasn't been said over and over in the past 4 decades.

You are right : demerger didn't happen in Montreal ..... It was merged, so that's it, seized forever in time ....

BTW, Quebec and Ontario paid thru their nose to subsidize fucking Alberta and Manitoba grain in the 50"s... We subsidize the transport by CN to Vancouver, to then sell it under cost to China and Russia. Without those subsidies, Alberta would have been empty and deserted...

Today they have the oil, but it wasn't always like that.

Oh my god....
You seriously didn't take any economics courses in school, did you? :)
I guess it's possible that you guys COULD cause a run on the banks by all trying to withdraw everything at once... but... then you'd just be shortchanging Quebec :)

Sure.. The quebec government and all the companies in Quebec are broke and don't have any canadian currencies at all. :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Note to banks: call DirectFiesta to return the $$$ he has in his pocket .

No, we will buy U.S. dollars instead. It would be hard for the first couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the CDN currency would be in really bad shape. :thumbsup

Again, I am talking about the theory where the Federal is stupid enough to say no when we have negotiations.

You have no idea how many companies would pull up stakes and move out of Quebec if this issue were to flame up really hot again. No idea.

Again, the same lame "scary" scenario. Do you know what's the cost to actually MOVE ELSEWHERE?

We are going to keep the same currency, we will have the same frontiers. Unless the Federal is STUPID enough to say no to our "Association" offers.

Do you seriously think companies who have providers in Quebec right now do because we are part of Canada? They buy from them because it's a good price. They are not going to PAY HIGHER PRICES because they don't agree with the political situation..

- "FUCK!!! THEY ARE A SOVEREIGN NATION NOW.. I don't give a FUCK if I have to lose millions of dollars and buy from another province if I have to..".

Jesus.. You should know how it works.. Did people stop buying from the states because BUSH got re-elected?! :1orglaugh

I've been drinking a shitload of Budweiser tonight but can anyone explain to me what Quebec hopes to gain by separating? Doesn't make sense to me. Back to my Bud. I will check responses in the morning.

:winkwink:

shit... Seperatists on this board? Good lord.. stop embarrassing yourselves! :2 cents:

And for those who denigrate Quebec... check out your location before talking shit... :2 cents:

Who convince you of that? Le parti Quebecois?

Wake the fuck up.. Quebec is a POOR province... We get money from the perequation.. Billions per year... If QUbec seperate.. That money will obviously be gone.. As for the fiscal imbalance.. lol... Every damn provinces are in the same position.. Do they separate for that? Fuck no... they put pressure on the government to get it.. And btw.. that money is spent on the debt... which in the end.. we all benifit from it...

The seperatists movement is baseless... Its a project based on fear, hate and illusions...

Embarrassing..

Do you KNOW who YVES SEGUIN IS?

Oh... He's not an evil separatist.. He was Liberal's Minister of Finance

Enjoy.

http://www.desequilibrefiscal.gouv.qc.ca/index.htm

Also.. Quotes from "Yves Seguin" :

http://www.ledevoir.com/2005/02/22/75430.html

"«Yves met le doigt sur une problématique qui est bien réelle», a indiqué, hier, M. Pelletier au Devoir. Le ministre était appelé à commenter les récentes déclarations de M. Séguin, qui estime que les intérêts du Québec sont gravement menacés à l'heure actuelle en raison du déséquilibre fiscal et de son corollaire, l'empiétement massif par Ottawa sur les compétences provinciales."

I'll that..

THe only thing that keep this option alive is the fact that the media is controled by the seperatists... Every damn artists, singers, comedians, actors are seperatist and take every damn opportunities they have to let people know their position and opinions... ( which means.. TV show they go on.. award shows.. write songs, etc..)... All the unions which represent millions of workers are openly seperatist.. The biggest fucking news show in Quebec is hosted by a well known seperatist (Claude Charron) who's job is basically to give you his partisan opinion each and every fucking night.... TV station TQS is also partisan.. Especially that idiotic woman on the noon show... Most French, History and sociology teachers (Cegep level) will openly tell their students they are seperatists... etc.. etc...

THats the fucking real scandal..!

Without all that.. the sepratist option wouldnt surpass 25% ...

Did I say there wasnt any fiscal imbalance? All the provinces are on the same boat... And all the provinces would like to spend that money on Health Care...

LOL.. reading this, I conclude that Quebec is in majority separatist ...

BTW, you want a scandal ( double one ) : watch the Gomery commission ... That is a scandal because it is OUR money, the tax payers money... Artists and others you name do it with THEIR money .... :2 cents:

Haha... Videotron who owns TVA is own by a known separatist.. Peladeau ... They pay a fucking separtist to host their news show and give his wortless opinion night after night... Is that ethical....? What if a federalist would do that in Quebec? haha you know it would cause a scandal :2 cents:

oh cry me a river.. The Liberal party has been accumulating surplusses after surplusses for nearly 15 years... That sponsorship money is a drop in the ocean compared to they money we have accumulated over the years... How much money you think we will lose with the conservatives?? And btw.. the sponsorship money will be paid back in totallity..

EXACTLY. One of the MAJOR reasons why "FEDERALISM" isn't working. Thank you.

Thomas Schumacker ?????

The Gazette

CJAD

and so on ....

Sure.. you mean like the 45 billions of dollars that disappeared from the "employment insurance" ?

Is that also a drop in the ocean for you?

Also, you are saying that stealing government money is ok for you? Good.. No.. As long as it's not a big amount? :1orglaugh

You know, if you really, really think that's going to happen, you just lost all credibility.

haha.. and you think QUebec on his own would do better?????? Are you out of your mind?? Do you even know how BIG of a risk is it for QUebec to go on his own?? Do I need to remind you QUebec is POOR and populated with a vast mojority of no good extreme socialists who want everything to be paid for without lifting a fucking finger!?? Quebec aka the land of Unions, de l'universalité et du nivellement par le bas...!??

Even René Lesvesque talked about it being "Le beau RISQUE" at a time where the sovereignty wasnt that bad of an idea.. Things changed.. it is now A BAD IDEA and a fucking BAD RISK!! :2 cents:

The federal is getting richer and richer and we are losing control of our own social programs. In a couple of years, the fiscal imbalance will be even more horrible. If nothing is done about this problem and that the federal keeps denying there is a fiscal imbalance, there WON'T BE ANY REASONS LEFT to stay within this federation.

one.. the Gazette have their seperatsist writing for them.. Josée something... cant remember her name.. And the Gazette and CJAD reach a VERY limited number of people.. please.. ANd the anglos they reach are already federalist and WILL ALWAYS remain federalist..

More entertaining than paint drying...thx guys.

LOL...so that doesn't count :1orglaugh not enough PENETRATION....

They only reach Anglos ???/ Shit, it seems separation has already happened in facts ....

Do you think that La Presse has any ( Dubuc) federalists ????

First.. you seem to often forget about the billions we get in perequation... Second.. right now.. QUebec is not equiped to go on his own.. Maybe later... Not now.. Third.. all the provinces are fighting the fiscal imbalance.. And with the liberal party losing its feathers... its only a question of time before the federal government give the provinces what they want...

uh.. whats the problem with having partisan editorialists..? La Presse has its share of separatists too... How about Le journal de Montreal or le Devoir? lol

Not sure what you are trying to prove?! THat NOT EVERYONE in QUebec is a separatist? Never said that... What im saying is the media is overwelmingly dominated by separatists...

:1orglaugh :error :1orglaugh

On the same page !!!!!!!

Well, born here, raised here, and I have moved back here three times now... but I would suspect the end is near... *sigh*.

Basically, the collapse of this federal parliment will very likely be the end of national political parties and a move to regional parties. This will lead to endless minority governments, and an endless series of elections that will serve only to frustate and alienate everyone involved. Quebec seperation would only be a side issue when compared to the total dissolution of the federal system as it has existed. The traditional british partlimentary system fails when faced with repeated minority governments.

What you will get is this: The conservatives will get most of the west, the NDP will get some seats here and there, the bloquists will get a huge majority of quebec seats, the conservatives and liberals will split ontario, and the east will be mostly liberal and NDP. At the end of the day, we will likely get a conservative minority supported by nobody else, which will once again fail as soon as a budget is put forward unless then bend over and lick the bloquists asses. Then we get to have another election, the cards will shuffle slightly, and probably we will get a liberal minority supported by nobody that will once again fail.

In the mean time, new "national" parties will emerge that will be supported by nobody.

Liberal party of quebec will get kicked out of office in the next quebec election, replaced by an PQ government that will use the federal situation to quickly call a referendum, which will succeed, and quebec will move to leave the federation.

Total run time is about 3 - 4 years.

LIberal party of Canada is going down the same road as the PC party did in the past, and they died a horrible death... the end is near.

Thank god I have british citizenship too.

Alex

haha... try to be a bit more rational will you...

Take this exemple..


You work for a company... you earn $200K based partially on %... YOu learn that they are screwing you... YOu should earn $220K/year... Shit.. What do you do?? YOu have ONE option.. Go work for your competitor... Who are not as good and where you'll only earn $50k per year.. ANd until proven otherwise.. theres no indication that they are not paying what you should earn.... MMmmmh .. What will YOU do ...?? Who will you penalize the most by going elsewhere? Guess what.. Quebeckers will lose the most by having the conservatives in power... Dont get me wrong.. if there was a valid alternative to the Liberals.. I would vote for them.. Guess what there ISNT...

As for your $45 billions... please...

lol .. I think theres a problem if you cant make the difference between the fucking host of the biggest 6 oclock news show on "national TV" and editorialists writting for a paper... You think americans for exemple would tolerate having Robert Novak host the evening news on NBC and giving his partisan editorial every freakin night...? Dont they have laws against that... Just common sense...

OK, so this thread has said that every province is losing money to the federal government. I have a question - where does that money go?

And is Quebec losing so much more then the rest of us that it has to seperate? I don't quite get it.

More questions - I'm a bit young, I've kinda missed shit like the Meech Lake junk. Why does Quebec want to seperate? What do they plan to gain? I've been to Montreal, really enjoyed it (much more then Toronto) - from my visit there, I don't see a reason to seperate? Yah, there is a bit of a culture difference, but no more then the culture difference you experience heading to Chinatown or Richmond over here... Canada is all about embracing different cultures and producing more tolerant, well rounded people.

Anyways, is there a website with some decent info on this? Can be in french or english, as I can basically read french (and if not, babelfish is my friend)... I always stay out of these debates because I am a bit uninformed.

WooHoo! Thread killer :)

i just got home this is gonna take me some time to weed through here, bare with me.

FUCKING RIGHT! I'm not talking about the topic of this discussion. I'm talking about the commonality that unites us a people. From Newfoundland to Nunavut to Vancouver To Quebec and Windsor!

This is what it means to be Canadien/Canadienne/Canadian! This is an example of what I was talking about in a previous thread on this subject.

Your post is one part of the "GET IT" I was talking about. It's the analogy without an announcement to say it is an analogy. One born out of sarcasm. To combine these two elements of communication is un-heard of in most cultures.

It is things like this that make a tiny nation of little more than 30 million take it's seat at the table of the big boys.

It is the thing that keeps us from going into stupid situations like the current IRAQ condition. We don't cause chaos like the americans

It is the thing that when we do engage in a combat we stand our ground and not retreat and don't accept defeat. Unlike the French of France who say "To be happy you must hide."

It is this argument that all of us are having!

We call each other names. We make logical statements and stupid ones. Both scholars and bluenecks debate in their own way with each other.

And no one pulls out a gun or walks away feeling degraded. We may not always agree but we premit each other the luxary of making a statement.

We say it is OKAY to call each other ASSHOLE and believe it.

But most importantly when it is all said and done. Each and everyone of us can find some sort of humour in the entire issue.

No one agrees, we all think each other is an asshole, we yell and scream and say mean things. And at the end of the day, despite it all we remain together.

No matter what side or opinions expressed.... This thread makes me proud to be Canadienne!

This thread is dumb.. Would any profitable state in USA not want to be their own country ? Of course not. Do you think anyone is going to let them ?? Of course not..

It will never happen stop dreaming about it.

Sure. Close your eyes and ignore the 45 billions they Liberals have stolen from the employment insurance fund, it's much more easier that way.

I tattoed my CDN flag on the back of my right shoulder.

What flag do you fly? Losing money? are you high?

we are all in this together....get a grip..the selfishness is not hard to see in you, nor people who believe the way you do

a few guys at the top of the food chain become instant kings...everyone else is just sheep...ignorant beyond all belief

i'm going to go and drink at a night club in Korea..everyone here who i explain this to..thinks the separatists are crazy