painintheass

I said I was a seperatist in another topic. Let me clairfy and start a good debate on Quebec seperation

Sweetie, it was a comment on the sillyness of the seperatist movement.

1. During the last referendum most of the people couldn't understand the question. Donc, the seperatist party does not really want to seperate.

2. They have no plan for seperatism even if they did win. To a substantial number of Quebec'rs they believe that once they leave Canada they are going to become part of France.

And to be honest. It doesn't matter if it is the Liberal, Conservative or the Seperatists in power in Quebec. They only give a shit about 2 cities and that is Montreal and Quebec. In their minds the rest of the province can go fuck itself.

Outside of large city centres we deal with sub-standard education (Alot of Francophones can't read or write french)
Shitty doctors that would be sued in another part of the country.
Lack of adequate law enforcement.
etc etc.

Come election time the seperatists go to areas like the Gaspesie region. Tell abunch of un-employed francophone rednecks that the english are trying to destroy their language and culture and take over. And it is the rural areas that keep these turds in power. Not the big cities.

And many if not most of these guys have never been past Quebec city (Big fucking province and most is rural)

They are also under false belief that if they ever left the province they would be physically attacked and have the shit kicked out of them the moment they crossed into an english speaking province. Fuck the provincial goverment will give schools money to help pay for a trip to New York but not to Ottawa. They want to keep the fear alive for generations to come.

And the federal goverment knows the seperatists do this shit and don't even try to stop them. They could so easily defeat these bastards by just stating the facts that this is what they do.

The seperatists want to keep their federal funding and drive their big cars.
The federalist know that fear of the english makes quebec an easy to control province.

So you see... these politicians are all fucking buddies. They only want their money.

Rich

That's a great take on it.

painintheass

I grew up near sheldrake QC. One of those remote areas. I witnessed it first hand.

JimmiDean

Not to metion the Cree nation ( center of Quebec) stated they would never leave Canada, and they are well armed.

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painintheass

I lost my virginity to a Cree. I'm sure it wasn't as big as I remember it. But it was like being impaled on the fat end of a baseball bat.

I'm glad to hear they will never leave.

who

Segregation will leave you more like U.S.A.

directfiesta

No point reading further ... I already had my dose of dumb post by stupid ignorant fucks.



BTW, please stay in France or move to Alabama...

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NoCarrier

Do an search on google about "Gomery commission".

Re-read your comments about the federal government. Then slap yourself in the face.

Then go read political books about Canada, then kick yourself in the ass.

Then leave.

Your comments were so fucking pathetic and clueless I almost feel sorry for you.

Typical "I want to be superior but I don't know shit" french from France attitude.

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DomBuyer

Very few Canadians could care less about this oh so yesterday issue.

Americans haven't even heard of Quebec.

painintheass

You know what??
YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT! Hell you embarrass the idiots!

I was born and raised in Quebec. I have lived in english and french canada. I have also lived in the United States and I now live in France.

Unlike most I lived it! I made my opinions based on my experiences and not some pot of shit. During the last referendum I was going to vote yes but I could not figure out what the hell they were asking. "The infamous question."

So take your attitude and shove it up your little child's shithole you reference to as a brain. This was an adult conversation and when you decide to grow up and have something useful to contribute to the dialog. Perhaps then I will consider you seriously.

Antxx

To a substantial number of Quebec'rs they believe that once they leave Canada they are going to become part of France.

Just there, you show you understand nothing to the history of Quebec and the actual desire of quebecers. In fact, if politicians here are so favorable to the French, almost 80% of the population don't want anything to do with them. We don't have any issues with the canadians in general, only with the politic of centralistic federalism that was intaured after the second world war (Or around that period). We are tired of giving 4 milliards of canadian dollars in taxes and having a 2-3 milliards return in exchanges.

Yes, it's about keeping our money into our hand and manage it. But the Alberta and the Ontario are mostly asking for the same thing.

As for the language, we do pretty well with the 101 law, to protect our linguistic heritage. There is a party (Le parti quebecois) and some medias who assertain the poeples paranoia of the population, regarding our culture integrity via the english. But then, is it worst or better than the disinformation that the Bush administration pulled to the americans for going into Irak ? In all, politics is all about manipulation of minds and opinions. The name of the game.

If the declaration of Gagliano, is what made you start this topic, let me tell you something: He is a fucking crook who try to save his ass from the consequence of the Gomery commission. The fact that he is talking about Quebec separation is just a tentative to divert the attention from his shit to others, and try to gain a shadow of credibility. His has NO credibility whatsoever, especially here in Quebec.

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painintheass

directfiesta

Nothing more to add ... Maybe she is Ann Coulter ...

STAY OUT OF QUEBEC !

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NoCarrier

That's because you were too fucking dumb to understand it. Good thing you left our country. One less dumbass.

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sean416

Can somebody else explain why so many quebecers want to leave canada? No offense, but from my english canadian perspective, you guys seem like you whine sooo fuckin much and threaten to leave like children. I'll be the first to admit I have no clue about any of this, but I also don't have the desire to go google it and find out for myself. What I DO know is that it seems like in order to be prime minister you have to have some tie to quebec and canada is a bilingual country because of quebec. From my english-canadian perspective it seems like we do a lot for you guys and its never enough. So if someone has the time to give me (us) a little perspective on why they feel they (or the seperatists) feel the need to seperate. I understan the gomery factor, that would piss me off too, but what else?

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painintheass

My comment about the substantial number of Quebec'rs is true. At least from my perspective and at the grass roots level.

I was born and raised in rural Quebec. Whenever the topic seperation occured.
(Usually when everyone was drinking and that occured on a regular basis. You comprehend how rurual areas can be.)
Everyone had something to complain about. But if or when seperation happens no one knew what to say was going to happen next. Many thought and were convinced we would re-unite with France.

Personally speaking. I don't want to re-unite with France. I've lived here for 2 years and we are so culturally different now that it would be silly to attempt it. I'm looking forward to returning to my home and I certainly don't want to arrive and find out it has become part of france.

But my argument against the seperatists is still valid. If we seperate what is it that happens next. Answer me this question and I'll vote YES. Until then, better the devil you know then the one you don't.

As for the money issues and the province. Well... to be any canadian/canadien/canadienne is to argue about money, wanting more, complaining you don't get your fair share and ultimately blaming Ottawa for any short-commings your province has. So as far as I'm concern the issue will never be resolved. And it's ultimately the reason most of Canada votes politicians out of office instead of in.

Now for the language. Hands down I agree! We have to protect our heritage. BUT... and you knew this was comming. I think we need to force bilingualism down the throat of the entire country.

In my point of view if we are a bilingual county then every citizen of canada better speak both languages. Phase it in at the grade school level. In French Canada you start with French in the morning and english in the afternoon. In English Canada the reverse. Pretty soon, within a generation or so. This entire seperation argument is over. AND it will help to develop a distinctively Canadian Cultural Identity. Not something we borrow from the states.

Lastly, I started this topic not because of Gagliano. But because I was just contemplating my opinions on the issues. A lot has happen to me in my life since the last time the talk of seperation occurred.

And now as we get closer to a federal election with a very weak Liberal Goverment and American Wannabe Harper. I'm left questioning that if I do return 1. will there be a Canada in 5 years 2. Should I vote parti quebecois or toss my support behind the liberals hoping to prop them up.

For Gagliano.... BRING BACK EXECUTION!

BradM

Quebec is welcomed to leave. As soon as they realize they can't run their own country without the other provinces, we will take you back.... just tripple your taxes for the hastle.

ElvisManson

The separtist movement was great for the Business climate in Montreal.

Antxx

Well, we are not really whining. But it would be hard for me to give you an history lesson here. It's just too complicated to sum it up. Just ask yourself who were the 2 foundator populations of our country, and historically speaking, it all began there.

I did vote for the seperation 2 times, but i wouldn't now. For me there is a question of credibility from the politicians, the question of federal tax management and the protection of our culture. There isn't much more than that. We reject the federal option has it is now, that doesn't mean we always did in the past. And if you look at the other provinces behavior, they are beginning to realised that problem with he federal central model. It's not working.

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BradM

You're absolutely right. Since I have been out of the country I can look at it from the outside. The country really is falling apart thanks to things like medicare and bloated government employees.

sean416

I have been getting that answer all my life, makes me think I might actually have to do some reading on my own.

Jaque Cartier in the St. Lawrence river pretty much founded Canada, right? So fast forward almost 200 years, whats the claim? Things evolve, life goes on, it's not like because of that you guys have a divine right to have priority over the rest of canada?

I understand about having a problem with the federal government, so does manitoba, so does B.C., etc but Quebec are the only ones threatning to leave Canada.

I always saw Quebec as no different, they are 100% Canadian as is any other province. But it seems like Quebec breeds a completely different outlook. Like most of you see it as you guys against the rest of the country, and that sucks IMO. You are Canadian! Be proud of it.

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Antxx

I think you easily dismiss the L'Action Democratique has a party to which you can vote. Personnally Mario Dumont is my guy. I am tired of having the seperation discussion. The vast majority of the older population 30+ don't want it. During the time of Levesque, there was a real plan, a real transition and a real idea behind it...but now it's just a dead end ideology.

I must say that there is no option in the federal. The "Liberaux" are just a band of fucking corrupted clowns. The "Conservateur" have some radical movements in them coming from the Alliance, but Harper doesn't seem to acknowledge them that much (That a good thing i guess). And there is the funny guy of the NPD, a party that was never a full fledge political party.

The Canada is not biligual, and never was. In principle we all should know both tongues, but really...instead of that we use that difference to clinge on our identities and going into our trench. That's why we had the phrase: "Les deux grands silences" "The 2 big silences" in this country. I don't think our culture is that in danger right now. I even think it's overlay protected with the CRTC, that also does the same thing with american content.

Look at it this way. English Canadians are doing things to protect themself against an over abuse of americanisation in their culture. The CRTC is a living proof of that. The quebecers are doing the same regarding canadians, and americans. But because we a small % of french population on the north america continent, the desire to seperate is regarded has a way of protection ultimetally. Their is a latent insecurity to this phenomenon too...

So it's not a simple issue. It one that affect any type of minority within a country, except that we were 2 of the original foundators of that country. And we never forgot about it. And it's also why the yes didn't win, to some respect.

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Antxx

What's the claim ? Not sure myself. 200-400 years is nothing man...in terms of collective memory, it's like yesterday. Just watch the history of Europe and you will see that some conflicts are generated upon 200-300 years old problems.

We are not the only ones threathning to live Canada. Alberta and Ontario made allusion to it not so long ago. In their case it was a negotiation argument, but...they would actually do well as a country on their own. They are already rich.

The fact that the Yes didn't won, state that we are still proud to be Canadian. But don't forget that there was a war between the French and Britains on the Plains of Quebec City. War always leaves scars and tensions behind it. That why we have a different view on things. It doesn't mean we want revenge, but naturally we will always tend to amend that historical glitch.

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yys

Bwahahahahaha, this is what I love about you Quebecer's; you can always count on them to provide you with a good laugh.

Newsflash-You are a have not province and more money flows into Quebec from the federal government then flows out of Quebec in taxes. Your province and all it's social programs have been proped up for the last 30-40 years largely by tax money from Ontarians and Albertans.

The PQ have really duped the public of Quebec.
Vote for seperation, we will be our own country. Don't worry everything will be ok.
We won't receive our monthly welfare check from the Feds anymore but that doesn't matter because our special seperatist accounting shows that the money sent to quebec from other canadian taxpayers was actually ours in the first place.
We will no longer be part of Canada but we will still use the canadian dollar and expect them to let us have a say in their monetary policy; even appoint the Governor of the Bank of Canada.
We will dictate what our protion of the national debt is and it will certainly be less then our percentage of the population; don't even talk about the fact that our share is larger then our percentage of the population.
Quebec's borders will not be altered. It doesn't matter if a large portion of the province was handed over to us as part of Canada; it's all ours now.
Lastly, the rest of Canada will just abandon all their millions of fellow Canadians in the former province of Quebec who never wanted to leave because half of us voted to leave and they can't say anything about it anyways.
Vote for seperation we will be our own country. Don't worry everything will be ok.

canplayer

This thread is useless, since Quebec will never seperate. Yes there are 'french seperatists' who feel the Quebec French language (much different than france french in that involves the use of 'LA' or 'BEN' to either complete or start a sentence) is in danger of disappearing. There's no intelligent person that would argue for it, so that being said, it can't possibly happen since I feel this province has more smart people than dumb. I've been proven wrong before though so anything can happen at this point.

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CDSmith

Finally a post that offers up a few much-needed perspective in the beginning and then follows it up with several metric tons of sarcasm. I love it.

To the rest of you fools, will you shut up already about Quebec separating? You've had not one but TWO referendums over this, and the "yes" side was defeated both times. You don't keep getting to have more an more referendums until you get the answer you want, that's what whiney children do.

"Mom"

"I said no"

"But MOM"

"NO!!"

"yeah but MOooM"


If I ever did that to my mom I'd have gotten spanked. Do you separatists need to be spanked? Trust me, if a US state started yapping about separatism to the extent that some of you whiners have done at times, they would have the national fucking guard in there so fast it'd make your relatives on the old country shit.

I have a sizeable amount of family that is from Quebec. My dad is from Quebec, and I've been there to meet those relatives. What of them? There is a large % of people in that province who do not want to separate. The answer most bloc supporters give to that is "They can leave"..... well, why don't *YOU* leave? I'd say go back to France, but they don't want you either. Maybe you need to go find a deserted island and colonize it. Then set up your amazing wonderful government you're always running on about and see how you fare with the umbilical cord is cut.

And lastly, stop saying "you Canadians, us Quebecers"..... as I've said, not all of Quebec thinks this way. Barely by half, actually. We are all Canadians, period.

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Antxx

I agree with you. Most quebecers don't see it has something realisticaly possible. The main reason is the economy. It's not strong enouph, and we all recognise it. Unless the US wants another state...but even then nobody think this is a realistic option either.

I think the Quebec is stronger now because it has a nice relationship with the maritimes provinces. And strategically, to face the federal, it's wiser. We are still in Canada, that must say something about how we feel about it.

We could turn in round and round without getting something tangible or positive about it. In fact, many quebecers are actually tired of the separation dilema and don't even want to talk about it. In case you didn't know, MANY families had problems during those periods of referendum because of very different opinions and political allegeance, and it lefted a very bad taste behind. That's why the Parti Quebecois was put to sleep in the last election.

Well, you might want to watch Paul Martin tonight on TV. It is his first address to the nation...and no, we are not going to war . He is trying to save his ass. I mean that's entertainement, the separation of Quebec is dull compare to the commandite scandal.

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Thrawn$

49.5% for the yes is a winning referendum

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CDSmith

According to a Quebecer maybe. Everywhere else you need 50% or better to win.

The answer is still no.

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NoCarrier

It's when I read comments from english canadians like you that I'm glad to know there will be a 3rd referendum soon.

It's inevitable. But you will still be welcome to visit our cities.

Look.. We tried 2 times to be part of the constitution with the Meech Lake accord and then with the lame "watered down" Charlottetown version.

You said No both times.

So you don't have any lessons to give us about trying.

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tedwinters

[QUOTE=Antxx]
We are tired of giving 4 milliards of canadian dollars in taxes and having a 2-3 milliards return in exchanges.

Actually, you've received over $4 billion each year, for the past 10 years in 'reparation' payments...
EG, spreading income equality to the rest of the provinces...
As for 'tax money', every province pays similar amounts of Federal tax - it's used for: hospitals, roads, infrastructure, etc.

If you REALLY want to know why Quebec has so much debt, look at it's Unions..

I also can't believe that all the stores here close at 5pm on weekends! blech...

Thrawn$

first, the canadian gouvernement brings tons of immigrant and gave then the citizenship to be able to vote, all the new immigrant votes no cause they came to canada not quebec and they want a canadian passport. The federal gouvernement spent millions to promote the federalism etc... and they was irregularities in the vote count...

So the last referundum was STOLEN from the canadian gouvernement and i'm tired of seeing the Old bitch queen elisabeth on the 20 dolla bill.

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directfiesta

Gomery.ca ..... That played quite a bit in the results... aside from busing/flying in people not even residing in Quebec to vote.

A lot of people ask:

" Why do you want to separate ????

I myself ask this question:

" Why do you want to keep Quebec in Canada "

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CDSmith

Wrong, the results of the referendum said no.

I was not allowed to vote in the referendum.

Deal with it.


Yes, criticize my post because it's not what separatists want to hear. "English Canadians like you"..... I'll tell you what. I live in the heart of the largest French-Canadian community west of Quebec, and have also worked in this community for the past 20 years. These are people with serious ties to Quebec, not many want to see it separate.

If I have anything to say about it there will be no third referendum. You've had your chance, the answer was found to be no. Period. As I said, guys like you are more than welcome to leave if you don't like Canada, of which Quebec is a part of.

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directfiesta

You normally are smarter than this ....

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CDSmith

bla bla bla bla same old bullshit. Standard tactic of any losing side is to cry foul.

And you wonder why the rest of N. America and even people from Europe call your lot whiners. Stop saying you're not whiners, most of you are.

Quebec is a province of Canada, no more, no less. Don't like it? There's the door.

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tedwinters

Another huge problem are the proposed separation rules...
Quebec wants to leave debt free, still use Canadian currency, and be protected by the Canadian military....

I've heard talk in the rest of the provinces about getting the chance to vote as well
Just vote Quebec out!! WITHOUT providing support..

Unfortunately, it's not feasible.... and measures would need to be taken to account for the mass emigration once Quebec becomes separate...

The whole thing is pretty much a waste of time to talk about... It'll never happen..
Oh, and 'Alberta Separation' was actually a joke at Quebec's expense... by Ralph Klein..
Unlike Quebec, Alberta is debt free, and can economically support itself..

CDSmith

Anyone, not just separatists, are free to leave Canada if they don't like it. You should be happy about that fact, it is a key point in any country's boast about having a free society.

I thought you were smarter than this. No wait, I don't think I did.

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NoCarrier

Of course, the federalists violated our election law by a 1000 times according to Benoit Corbeil this morning. What's ironic, is that it was with our own money. Bastards.

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NoCarrier

You think so?

http://www.separationalberta.com/
http://www.wips.ca/

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directfiesta

Correction: I don't anymore ....

Still no answer to why Canada cares so much for Quebec ... LOL

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tedwinters

I'm positive
He just happened to bring together the 300 people that feel that way...
hahaha.. not exactly a large movement!

CDSmith

Indeed, this kind of common sense is offensive to a separatist.

but well said.

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NoCarrier

Well, they actually "LOOOOOOVE QUEBEC" only when they get free/cheap tickey flights. Then they love us.. Between that, it's : "Fucking french fags, whining all the time.. Just go".

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CDSmith

Canada cares about Canada, of which Quebec is a part of. And there are 2 or 3 million people in that provice that are comprised of:

Native Canadians/1st nations
English-origin Canadians
French-Canadians who do not support the separatist movement
People of various other nationalities

Plus, the land itself is part of Canada.


Ask yourself this question: If one of the US states were to try to separate, why would the USA want to stop it? Let's say 49% of the people of Georgia decide they've had enough and want to start their own country, preserve their "Southern heritage and culture"...... would they be allowed to form a new country? Think about it.

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CDSmith

If the whining would stop, no one would be saying that.

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NoCarrier

Oh it will. Trust me. Thanks to the Liberals.

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CDSmith

And that pretty much brings this discussion to a close, for me at least.

The rest of you can continue jabbering about 3rd referendums and other myths.

Meanwhile the French commnunity of St. Boniface, MB, while smack in the middle of "english-speaking Canada" thrives and preserves it's Francophone heritage quite nicely... which serves to blow part of the separatist movement's argument right out of the water.

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skillfull

oh shit
i jump in
I'm a separatist and pround to be
you want reason for Quebec to leave Canada ?

this will be a long post, but fucking well documented

The major prior event is the referendum of 1980 and the analogies people make with it. Nevertheless, we should recall that history does not repeat itself exactly. The Canadian political scene has changed significantly since the last Quebec referendum. The separatist 1 Bloc Québécois now holds two thirds of the Quebec seats in Ottawa so the Ottawa Liberals no longer occupy the moral high ground of speaking for Quebec. At the same time, the BQ feeds back continuous streams of negative images of federalism into the Quebec collective psyche. In addition, Canada has suffered the double defeats of the Meech and Charlottetown constitutional accords, the first of which many Quebecers took as a personal rejection by the rest of Canada.


----

Where does the Québec sovereignty project come from?

Since the birth of Canada in 1867, there have always been supporters of independence who thought Québec was not just another province within the Canadian borders, but rather constituted a nation and should become a country. Negotiations in the 1960's to amend Canada's Constitution in order to recognize Québec as one of the founding nations and to give it the necessary powers to develop itself within Canada failed. These failures occurred even when negotiations were conducted by Québec federalist governments in favour of Québec staying within Canada. Elected in 1976, the Parti Québécois government held a referendum on sovereignty in 1980, obtaining 40.6% support. In 1982, Canada modified its Constitution without National Assembly's and the Québec government's assent. To this day, no Québec political party has accepted to adhere to this Constitution. In 1994, the Parti Québécois regained power and in 1995 held another referendum, where the support for sovereignty climbed to 49.4%. On November 30th, 1998, the Parti Québécois was re-elected and once again formed the government.


--
Why does the Parti Québécois still want Québec to achieve sovereignty ?

Since the October 1995 referendum, the governments of Canada have ignored the will of the people of Québec to reform Canadian federalism. The federal government in Ottawa decided to maintain the status quo, accentuating problems which have existed for the last forty years. Furthermore, this government has multiplied attacks against Québec and continues to intervene in its areas of its exclusive jurisdiction, which causes severe problems in the planning of public services. It has also attempted to intimidate the Québec population by threatening not to recognize any future referendum result, notwithstanding the fact that Québec's democratic traditions are flawless and that its legislation on the financing of political parties and referendums are exemplary.
----

another good reason ?
in Quebec, we would have legalised marijuana, gay marriage and a couple things like that 20 years ago... we are tired that a bunch of farmboy from Jesusland block those project

humm i will post more later

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