REPORTING disturbing CP links on gfy

[SmokeyTheBear]

Glad a mod(eric) was finally contacted to edit out the cp link in that other thread, but a little miffed he closed the thread entirely.

True anyone can report a cp link to ASACP, but the plain simple fact is , nothing gets done.

I have reported quite a few myself ( to asacp ) and they never get removed.. But if you do a little homework , you can get them removed yourself ( i.e. contacting host,registrar,isp etc)

Most of the real cp sites i have seen on GFY have been dealt with PROMPTLY by people who know how to get ACTION and QUICKLY ( gfy members )


So in the future i hope people wont post direct cp links on gfy , but i sure hope gfy can be used as a tool to fight sites like this.

[who]

Yes, it's a fight that needs to be fought. But posting urls on GFY (what with all the surfers around) does NOT help.

Someone ought to set their dogs on people who make this content.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

Glad a mod(eric) was finally contacted to edit out the cp link in that other thread, but a little miffed he closed the thread entirely.

True anyone can report a cp link to ASACP, but the plain simple fact is , nothing gets done.

I have reported quite a few myself ( to asacp ) and they never get removed.. But if you do a little homework , you can get them removed yourself ( i.e. contacting host,registrar,isp etc)

Most of the real cp sites i have seen on GFY have been dealt with PROMPTLY by people who know how to get ACTION and QUICKLY ( gfy members )


So in the future i hope people wont post direct cp links on gfy , but i sure hope gfy can be used as a tool to fight sites like this.

Are you talking about obvious CP, like 5-10 yr olds or are you talking about women that look like they COULD be under 18, in the Little April vain?

If it's the former, than I applaud you or anyone who gets those sites taken down.

If it's the latter, I disagree wholeheartedly, because you or I could have a legitimate site taken down solely out of spite-depending on the host.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Are you talking about obvious CP, like 5-10 yr olds or are you talking about women that look like they COULD be under 18, in the Little April vain?

If it's the former, than I applaud you or anyone who gets those sites taken down.

If it's the latter, I disagree wholeheartedly, because you or I could have a legitimate site taken down solely out of spite-depending on the host.

Well debating it on gfy has always been quite accepted ( like debating where the line is )

But some recent examples posted on GFY were OBVIOUS hardcore underage cp , that couldnt be confused in any fashion whatsoever about the legality.

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'll elaborate on that. The laws vary in different countries as to what is legal and what s not legal.

Topless photos of 16 year old girls is most likely illegal in some areas, but is clearly legal in other areas, so gfy is the entirely wrong place to bring this sort of site as gfy is made up of worldwide webmasters not just local ones. It may be good discussion, but will never be unanimous.


I think in general the line is fairly clear between obvious cp , and teen

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

Well debating it on gfy has always been quite accepted ( like debating where the line is )

But some recent examples posted on GFY were OBVIOUS hardcore underage cp , that couldnt be confused in any fashion whatsoever about the legality.

I refuse to click on them, so I have no idea what was posted.

I moderated a freehost for a while and saw more than I ever cared to.

If it's OBVIOUS CP, than most certainly, do whatever can be done to bring it down. Not I or ANYONE legitimately involved in our industry would disagree.

But making a judgement call on sites like the one I mentioned, especially when it's from a respected sponsor, would be way out of line.

I have great respect for what the ASACP tried to do and support their efforts. God knows I wouldn't want that job. However, in the other thread, when it was suggested (mistakenly I might add), that the ASACP went to a sponsor on a "Judgement call", I was the first to stand up and say they were out of line.

I spoke with Joan afterwards and she cleared up that misconception for me.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

I'll elaborate on that. The laws vary in different countries as to what is legal and what s not legal.

Topless photos of 16 year old girls is most likely illegal in some areas, but is clearly legal in other areas, so gfy is the entirely wrong place to bring this sort of site as gfy is made up of worldwide webmasters not just local ones. It may be good discussion, but will never be unanimous.


I think in general the line is fairly clear between obvious cp , and teen

I agree with that, and that's sort of my point.

Topless photos of 16 year old girls are illegal here, but if I ran across a tgp with a girl who looked 16, but could be 18, I wouldn't report that because I couldn't be sure.

If I came a cross a site with a 9 year old...THAT I'd report.

[sexyclicks]

that site is still up

[roly]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

True anyone can report a cp link to ASACP, but the plain simple fact is , nothing gets done.

I have reported quite a few myself ( to asacp ) and they never get removed.. But if you do a little homework , you can get them removed yourself ( i.e. contacting host,registrar,isp etc)

Most of the real cp sites i have seen on GFY have been dealt with PROMPTLY by people who know how to get ACTION and QUICKLY ( gfy members ).

i think its been said before by asacp that they do take action if its cp, but often the fbi or whoever leave the sites running, so that they are able to catch the people behind it (and all the subscribers to the site), rather than just getting the site shut down. so just because a site isn't shut down straight away doesn't mean no action is being taken.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by roly

i think its been said before by asacp that they do take action if its cp, but often the fbi or whoever leave the sites running, so that they are able to catch the people behind it (and all the subscribers to the site), rather than just getting the site shut down. so just because a site isn't shut down straight away doesn't mean no action is being taken.

These werent pay sites , these were doorway pages ( like cp tgp's ) for cp paysites..

From everything i have heard they generally setup or watch the actual paysites, either way i dont agree with any of it. If they are illegal they should shut them down. Keeping them up only adds to the problem.

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

These werent pay sites , these were doorway pages ( like cp tgp's ) for cp paysites..

From everything i have heard they generally setup or watch the actual paysites, either way i dont agree with any of it. If they are illegal they should shut them down. Keeping them up only adds to the problem.

Wouldn't you rather they CATCH the guy and put an end to his "Career", instead of shutting his site down one day and it popping up somewhere else the next?

[roly]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

These werent pay sites , these were doorway pages ( like cp tgp's ) for cp paysites..

From everything i have heard they generally setup or watch the actual paysites, either way i dont agree with any of it. If they are illegal they should shut them down. Keeping them up only adds to the problem.

i didn't look at them to be honest.

[Mango]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Wouldn't you rather they CATCH the guy and put an end to his "Career", instead of shutting his site down one day and it popping up somewhere else the next?

Of course it would be best to get ahold of his/her/their identity and get the necessary done, but the sad truth is that they are hiding - plain and simple. They use sophisticated techniques like proxies, hacked servers or PC's and what not in order to create a path that can hardly be followed by anyone... And ultimately it may turn out that he/she lives in a country that doesn't give a damn about these practice or is corrupt, and then you get back to the start.

Very sad, indeed, but I'm not sure if anything can be done about that...

[Jon2]

I don't understand why the site is still up...

I have done everything in my power to have it taken down but I do know they are invesgiating the matter...Perhaps they are going to try to take down the owners so they must keep it up for now...

But I thought the process was gonna be alot quicker...Trust me I thought about going the DoS route

Jon

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Wouldn't you rather they CATCH the guy and put an end to his "Career", instead of shutting his site down one day and it popping up somewhere else the next?

They know who it is from day one.

They setup sting sites to catch others , but in the meantime they help others distribute cp they wouldnt have otherwise had if the feds hadnt kept the sites alive.

It would be like feds selling drugs to stop drug dealers.

Keeping a site up for longer than one day isnt going to help them find out who put it there , im sure its fairly easy to find that out right away.

I see what your saying , but i dont think it works to be honest

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by Mango

Of course it would be best to get ahold of his/her/their identity and get the necessary done, but the sad truth is that they are hiding - plain and simple. They use sophisticated techniques like proxies, hacked servers or PC's and what not in order to create a path that can hardly be followed by anyone... And ultimately it may turn out that he/she lives in a country that doesn't give a damn about these practice or is corrupt, and then you get back to the start.

Very sad, indeed, but I'm not sure if anything can be done about that...

Very true. But if they had more of a CHANCE to catch someone by leaving a site up for a little while, I'd much prefer that to him just moving his stuff elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want that shit up there either, but I'd rather have a permanent solution as opposed to a quick fix.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by Mango

Of course it would be best to get ahold of his/her/their identity and get the necessary done, but the sad truth is that they are hiding - plain and simple. They use sophisticated techniques like proxies, hacked servers or PC's and what not in order to create a path that can hardly be followed by anyone... And ultimately it may turn out that he/she lives in a country that doesn't give a damn about these practice or is corrupt, and then you get back to the start.

Very sad, indeed, but I'm not sure if anything can be done about that...

Exactly , they either know who it is from day one , or they arent going to find out , all they do it for is to catch other people. ( and i think they generally just allow it to take place so they can have the "goods" on someone they dont like i.e. famous people )

Again you dont stop something by dealing with it on a consumer level ( like drugs )

[hydro]

I live in the same city as the guy in the whois info and called a buddy of mine who is a cop to go do what he can but said nobody was home, ill update you guys if anything happens but i doubt that the guy in the whois info is really the guy running the site. But then again there are some really stupid people out there

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

They know who it is from day one.

They setup sting sites to catch others , but in the meantime they help others distribute cp they wouldnt have otherwise had if the feds hadnt kept the sites alive.

It would be like feds selling drugs to stop drug dealers.

Keeping a site up for longer than one day isnt going to help them find out who put it there , im sure its fairly easy to find that out right away.

I see what your saying , but i dont think it works to be honest

Fair enough.

If that's truly the case, then yes, they should shut his shit down and arrest him.

Then again, thinking about it literally as I'm typing, you're gonna get one guy out of a potential few hundred of them off the streets all at once.

Fuck it. If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be posting on GFY.

[NetRodent]

There's no justice like vigilante justice.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Fuck it. If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be posting on GFY.

me neither.

I know it sucks , but i think them allowing it to continue only helps make the problem worse.

Because i dont trust the feds , i think the easiest solution is to let people like us ( webmasters ) deal with them .. ( i.e. shutting them down , showing up on their doorsteps )

[SmokeyTheBear]

The reason why places like gfy work so well is you have people who are good at many different aspects..

I can do lots of internet sleuthing , but i'm not great on a phone , i end up at some point screaming and yelling lol.

Theres lots of host's here too , sometimes things are faster. I think someone posted an epassporte phishing page that was hosted on webair here one time . Quick solution.

[Wiggles]

people who paste them should be instantly banned for stupidity.

[FightThisPatent]

Some great points brought up in this thread, and it's good to hear that CP stuff pisses everyone off to want to do something about it.

The problem is that taking actions into your own hands is vigilantism...and committing a feloney (ie. DDOS, hacking, etc) to someone who is doing a felony (ie. showing cp) won't get you off the hook, should FBI track you down.

Leads submitted to ASACP are reviewed, and ones that are truly CP, are forwarded to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (the "officially" recongnized organization that is supposed to pass on leads to FBI) as well as to State AG and state FBI field offices.

The CP leads are broken down by billing, hosting, and registrar as well as then by state, in order to better target which law enforcement can act upon it.

State AG are particularly interested if the cp stuff happens in their state, so it's a time issue of building up the relationship for them to be ready to accept the research cp leads that ASACP finds.

One reason for changing ASACP name from Adult Sites Against Child Pornography to Association of Sites Advocating Child Protection was to make it easier for mainstream and government entities to associate with ASACP. There is a BIG stigma out in mainstream and government about adult whether you recognize it or not.

There is alot that goes on behind the scenes involving the cp lead stuff, and it is frustrating on ASACP's part to want to have the found and confirmed CP sites taken down immediately.

Alot of the cp sting operations that you read about were many times ones that ASACP had reported on.. but there is a big delay sometimes between discovering the cp site, and when action is taken by law enforcement happens.

Putting aside all the political, gossip, negative issues that is slung at ASACP, there is alot of good being done, and alot of people involved behind the scenes in trying to make a difference, including all the sponsors and members who provide financial support to make those things happen.


Fight the CP!

[Kevsh]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Very true. But if they had more of a CHANCE to catch someone by leaving a site up for a little while, I'd much prefer that to him just moving his stuff elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want that shit up there either, but I'd rather have a permanent solution as opposed to a quick fix.

It's the same as narcs. They have to "play along" until they can get the big score - even while they sit back and watch dealers selling their drugs. In the big picture, I believe the FBI approach is best. As well, you can get some info on those who are accessing the sites - from how they receive notice (email, IM) etc. and hopefully tap into bigger networks.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by Kevsh

It's the same as narcs. They have to "play along" until they can get the big score -

Some Attorney Generals office don't worry about the long-term sting, they just want to shut down the sites when they find them in their state. That's the kind of action that is needed... while they may popup on another host the next day, the idea is that as each state is more aggressive in shutting them down, then that will push them into further corners.

While cp sites could end up being pushed outside the US (and there are certainly a lot of CP sites that are within the US due to better connectivity), it just means that other countries are involved in a similar efforts, and that pushes them back to IRC, or onto P2P, where back to more of an underground thing.


Fight the dark corners!

[ronaldo]

Originally Posted by Kevsh

It's the same as narcs. They have to "play along" until they can get the big score - even while they sit back and watch dealers selling their drugs. In the big picture, I believe the FBI approach is best. As well, you can get some info on those who are accessing the sites - from how they receive notice (email, IM) etc. and hopefully tap into bigger networks.

I really do agree with you.

I think that those that don't would reason that someone BUYING drugs is of their own volition, so let's go get the big one. Meanwhile these kids were obviously not doing this voluntarily, so let's catch the fuckers now before they harm any others.

Looking at it from that perspective, I'd sure as fuck be pissed if my kids went to a daycare where the police KNEW something was going on, but my kids were put at risk because the police didn't inform the public in the hopes that they'd get someone more important.

[pstation]

Originally Posted by Jon

I don't understand why the site is still up...

I have done everything in my power to have it taken down but I do know they are invesgiating the matter...Perhaps they are going to try to take down the owners so they must keep it up for now...

But I thought the process was gonna be alot quicker...Trust me I thought about going the DoS route

Jon

Yahoo is usually very slow about dealing with this shit...thats why so many scammers use yahoo hosting