dready

Not in Canada... plus bio gets an additional 2.9 cent/L tax break to help with Kyoto... oh yeah... you Americans didn't sign it.

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Veterans Day

Kyoto, that failed plan from the beginning, but that aside. What do you propose to do with the millions of vehicles running gas now, as these vehicles will be around for atleast another 20-30 years at a minimum.

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rickholio

Don't believe ALL the hype. BioDiesel's good, but it still produces greenhouse emissions. BioD's just got a lower sulfur content, which is a good thing. BioD's basically a form of energy reclamation from otherwise wasted material (plant/animal fats).

As for efficiencies better than hybrids, I dunno about that. Prius gets 50mpg city right off the lot, and if you adapt it to charge off wall current you can get as high as 180mpg if you're doing short trips that run primarily off battery (40km round trip or less).

Don't get me wrong though, anything that improves fuel efficiency is a-ok in my book. BioD's a great way to do that.

rickholio

You think? How many '74 oldsmobiles are still on the road today?

10-15 years maybe, 20-30 is unlikely. Especially not domestics, cuz they fall apart way too quickly.

Veterans Day

you apparently dont travel or go to large inner cities in the usa very often? So how long until there is not another gas vehicle produced in the USA? Cmon you guys know better. Hell Ford sold 950,000+ F-series pickup trucks alone last year, and we know that automakers are 2-3 years ahead in tooling and development. So 20-30 years of gas vehicles is highly likely, good day

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rickholio

Not often, no, I'll admit. Seriously though, ghetto bumping in an 70s El Camino isn't the same as common usage. Those dinos may still be used, but they're not long haulin' and they're not the majority. I'm willing to bet that the half-life (50% of sold vehicles removed from service) of the average car is something in the realm of 6-8 years.

If cars running on gas are still around 20-30 years from now in north america, it won't be due to those cars still being run by demand... it'll be due to most people not having the infrastructure, availability or affordability of something alternative mostly due to pressure by the big3 to try to stay masters of the local game. If detroit flipped to 100% hybrid production today, within a decade the vast majority of people would be driving hybrids.

Frankly, I hope the japanese and koreans come in with even more high efficiency vehicles and absolutely demolish them. There's no reason why every consumer-grade vehicle on the road today couldn't be 30+mpg if not for politics and substandard engineering. There's a reason why Toyota pulls in double-digit profit margin while the domestics barely scrape by with razor thin margins (or in GM's case, huge loses covered by borrowing up the ass).

tony286

makes me glad I didnt buy a hummer or a tahoe lol

Veterans Day

There will be million of vehicles running gas in 10-15 years, I forsee that easily. Im probably the wrong guy to be talking to about this, I never see myself driving some electric car anytime soon. They dont appeal to me, I just don't like them. Not to mention they would never serve the purposes I need. Granted I drive alot less working from the house, but still alot of people feel the same way I do. Either way gasoline in current production must stay around for a long time. Everything from lawnmowers to motorsports needs it. Im a car nut through and through, nothing like raw fuel to get me excited, wether at the drag strip, nascar or powerboating on lake michigan. Whereas, people will be geeked up about driving an electric car that makes no noise and so forth, im old school and dont see change anytime soon. I dunno maybe im crazy

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Spunky

I wish I was paying that..it's about 4.50 here

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dready

Okay, it does produce carbon dioxide, but it's considered carbon neutral because growing the plant absorbs carbon; burning the oil releases it.
My Jetta can get 50MPG on a good day. Just imagine a diesel hybrid instead of a gas hybrid.. I bet it would hit 75MPG np.

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rickholio

Hell no. What you like is what you like and you're totally legit when you stay they'll still be around. I'm sure they will, and in part because some people just like octane-based adrenalin rushes. What I'm trying to say is that most people don't fit into that mold... they just want a car that gets em to work and back without a major hassle, costing too much in gas or breaking down every 1000km.

Think of it this way... say some guy drives an SUV that gets 15mpg/city doing a 30 mile round trip to and from work every day. Average work year being 50 weeks, 150 miles a week purely for commute, that's 7500 miles just for work. Kick in weekend runaround time, groceries, kid shuttling and so forth you're probably looking at 10,000 as a ballpark. At 15mpg, you're buying 667 gal a year, which'll run you between $1,300-$1,700/year at current prices, depending where you are. If gas prices bump up to $5/gal you're looking at $3,300/year. If you have a 50mpg hybrid, that running price drops to $1k a year a $5/gal ($500 at $2.50).

That $2k+ difference may not seem like much to you or me, but for the masses pulling down minimum wage or office-locked salary slaves that $200/month is the difference between fun and boredom; even between a full fridge and hunger. Considering the price premium between a hybrid and a non-hybrid isn't typically more than a few thousand at point of sale, it doesn't take long for the difference to be met by lower gas bills, and that premium is coming down all the time as more of them hit the roads.

The gearheads will have their hobby for a long time to come, but give the majority a cheaper, reliable alternative and they'll jump on it. The proof of that is in the unmitigated success of imports, which I suspect will either force domestic companies to adopt saner model designs or into the novelty 'big iron' category (vis. GM and the Hummer).

dready

All I know is diesels are selling like fucking crazy here... new models all the time. Mercedes has brought them back and Jeep has them now too. What engine could be better matched for a Jeep than a diesel? The torque is insane. People are hearing about the efficiency of these things and they want them. In europe it's 70% of all new vehicles and once we have low sulfur diesel here it will be the same. You should see the new 5L V10 TDI... 308hp and 553ft/lb of torque! It only gets 33MPG but for that kind of power that's pretty damn good! Their new W12 420hp gas burner only puts out 406ft/lb of torque.

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WarChild

You have to factor in buying a new car, first. How many people who are living that tightly are driving new cars? How many of these people would have the money to get rid of their $1000 beater and buy a new car?

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dready

They have gas-guzzler taxes here for buying an SUV or luxury car.. they should have credits for high efficiency cars.

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rickholio

Not many. The bottom-of-the-chain buyers would have to wait for the new cars to make their way down. You'll see today's hybrids selling for a few K in a decade or so I suspect.

It'd be helpful to have incentives to help people get into these newer vehicles (tax/financing) and disincentives to get em to drop the crap cars and either hop a bus or take the quality up a notch.