internet porn will die real soon - GoFuckYourself.com

cruelbastard2u · 01-03-2002, 06:25 PM

Hi - I'm not an adult webmaster just somebody who enjoys this forum. I also enjoy surfing the net for porn and I think a recent development is going to put all you guys and girls out of business very quickly unless you do something pronto.

Four times in the last 2 days my computer has been hijacked by programs setting all browser defaults to a porn dialler business. The last one even changed password settings so I could not alter the default homepage.

Now this was just a major inconvenience to me cos I know how to fix these things, but to the average surfer (your bread and butter) this would be a disaster. Imagine wifey firing up the browser to get a recipe for donuts and being whisked off to "fuck frenzy" or something like that? Most surfers wouldn't know how to disable this shit so they would then have the embarrassment of taking it somewhere and paying money to have the job done.

End result? One shit-scared EX porn surfer who is NEVER EVER going to even go looking again.

It's not even as if these idiots are going to make any money - no phone company is going to honour the bill after a complaint has been made. All it's going to do is wreck everything for everybody - for me as a very pissed off surfer, and for you as people trying to make a living pushing porn in more legit ways.

Main offenders seem to be 0190-Dialer.com and HotWetLove. If you people can do anything at all I suggest you do it real soon otherwise you're going to see your hits go through the floor over the next couple of months.

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I thought marriage licences expired eventually

Eric · 01-03-2002, 06:26 PM

Promote www.interneteraser.com and this will be all better. =)

kmanrox · 01-03-2002, 06:30 PM

the eraser even changs back your homepage settings erik?

Scoobs · 01-03-2002, 06:31 PM

Hey cruel man...

I totally agree with you... Pop-up hells, forced dialers and the like are gonna kill this industry! I rekon the people who do that shit are fools, cause it hurts us all!

Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about operators that do this shit.... is there?

01-03-2002, 06:35 PM

Internet porn is not going to die - too much money involved. But it gives the industry a bad name,that's for sure.

------------------
Vlad's TGP Submission Page
~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

rollin2 · 01-03-2002, 06:35 PM

internet porn business will never die.

people who think it will, are brain dead.

people will always have money for xxx, it has been like that for centuries...

Naughty · 01-03-2002, 06:36 PM

Somebody welcome the cruelbastard already

Go Fuck Yourself CB!

rollin2 · 01-03-2002, 06:38 PM

and in regards to traffic hitting the floor, it's totaly the oposite.

every day the internet grows by 90,000 new people or something in that range (i think).

all i see is traffic going up, and if your smart, you can turn that into big buck$$$

burn · 01-03-2002, 06:43 PM

Why can't new browsers just realese a upgrade that eliminates pop ups?

Exxxotica · 01-03-2002, 06:47 PM

Good point CB,

However, most Adultwebmaster are TOTALLY AGAINST scripts the reset or change a users bookmarks or homepage.

Sites and webmasters found using these tactics are usually blacklisted from trading or doing business with other sites.

Even if these webmasters are never caught, they soon realize that Jacking a hompage really doesnt make them much money.

cruelbastard2u · 01-03-2002, 06:55 PM

To Scoobs and Naughty thank you for the thoughts.

To Erika, Equinox and Rollin2, I think you all probably know a whole lot about porn, making galleries, TGP's and a whole heap of stuff that boggles my mind.

I also think you know some things about your "target" audience - white, thirties to fifties, hopefully got a credit card etc.

But here are some other things - most of them are married and lots of them have kids, and if this stuff starts infecting their computers they will stop looking for porn quicker than you can reset your counters.

And what about all those who surf from work computers? How do you think systems admin will feel about this?

I'm sorry if you don't see the potential threat this poses, and I don't know what you can do. But I would definately be giving it some thought if my livelihood depended on it.

------------------
I thought marriage licences expired eventually

01-03-2002, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by burn:
Why can't new browsers just realese a upgrade that eliminates pop ups?

There's plenty of add-on programs that do the job for you. Just go to download.com and search for popup killers...

------------------
Vlad's TGP Submission Page
~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

01-03-2002, 06:56 PM

As Exxxotica said, almost all webmasters are against it, but nevertheless there's always black sheep that try to screw the surfer as well as they can. Sad but true.

------------------
Vlad's TGP Submission Page
~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

spacedog · 01-03-2002, 06:57 PM

WE WILL NEVER DIE!!!

Not til I SPACEDOG HATH CONQUERED!!!

------------------
My Galleries suck, so please submit yours

I'm Fucking Starving..Sign Up for My Sponsors..

01-03-2002, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spacedog:
WE WILL NEVER DIE!!!

Not til I SPACEDOG HATH CONQUERED!!!

Yawn.

01-03-2002, 07:04 PM

I remember one's stats showing that some poor soul in the UK got charged for over 3000 continous minutes... ouch.

------------------
Vlad's TGP Submission Page
~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

spacedog · 01-03-2002, 07:07 PM

Hmmm..
Poor surfers..
I'm gonna remove my links to offshore clicks dialer..

I don't use no autorun script or nothing, just link to the download page..I'm bad..bad dog!

------------------
My Galleries suck, so please submit yours

I'm Fucking Starving..Sign Up for My Sponsors..

Fatum · 01-03-2002, 08:06 PM

DIALERS ARE GOOD
TGP's ARE DEVIL !
------------------
<A HREF="http://php.offshoreclicks.com/cgi-bin/ref.cgi?abazanweb" TARGET=_blank>Want to really fuck surfer in ass ?
Try offshoreclicks dialer. Amazing Rates</A>

Theo · 01-03-2002, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cruelbastard2u:
To Scoobs and Naughty thank you for the thoughts.

To Erika, Equinox and Rollin2, I think you all probably know a whole lot about porn, making galleries, TGP's and a whole heap of stuff that boggles my mind.

I also think you know some things about your "target" audience - white, thirties to fifties, hopefully got a credit card etc.

But here are some other things - most of them are married and lots of them have kids, and if this stuff starts infecting their computers they will stop looking for porn quicker than you can reset your counters.

And what about all those who surf from work computers? How do you think systems admin will feel about this?

I'm sorry if you don't see the potential threat this poses, and I don't know what you can do. But I would definately be giving it some thought if my livelihood depended on it.

does this 0190-dialer shit something autoran without doing anything like in my case? I couldn't even disconnect. the disconnect option was locked

Snake Doctor · 01-03-2002, 08:20 PM

If you surf for porn from work and get caught, that's your fucking problem because you shouldn't have been doing it anyways.

If you surf for porn from home and have kids, then you ought to have filtering software, there's lots of it available for free, so if you don't have it, that's your problem.

If you don't like my pop up hell, don't visit my sites, simple as that. If you think pop ups are hurting the business you are sadly mistaken, the exact opposite is true.
The "cleaner" sites become, the less money we all make, period.

Member=Gold
Surfer=Cattle

cruelbastard2u · 01-03-2002, 08:45 PM

Lenny I am not complaining about diallers, or about popups or anything like that at all. I fully realise the task facing you guys.

These new programs hijacked my computer. They did nothing at the time I was surfing - it was when I turned it on the next day and tried to go online again that that I discovered what had happened. Not only changed the start page, but used the system admin security to "lock" me out of "internet options" so that I couldn't change it back again. It also never registered on my virus filter program - nothing.

Out of the blue my computer could only go one place online, to the exclusion of everywhere else INCLUDING your sites complete with their popup hell.

My point was that that this would be catastrophic for the average family man surfer not able to fix the probs himself and will most certainly have a major deterrent effect on him ever doing it again.

Amputate Your Head · 01-03-2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cruelbastard2u:
These new programs hijacked my computer. They did nothing at the time I was surfing - it was when I turned it on the next day and tried to go online again that that I discovered what had happened. Not only changed the start page, but used the system admin security to "lock" me out of "internet options" so that I couldn't change it back again. It also never registered on my virus filter program - nothing.

Out of the blue my computer could only go one place online, to the exclusion of everywhere else INCLUDING your sites complete with their popup hell.

format c:

Hunter · 01-03-2002, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2:
If you surf for porn from work and get caught, that's your fucking problem because you shouldn't have been doing it anyways.

If you surf for porn from home and have kids, then you ought to have filtering software, there's lots of it available for free, so if you don't have it, that's your problem.

If you don't like my pop up hell, don't visit my sites, simple as that. If you think pop ups are hurting the business you are sadly mistaken, the exact opposite is true.
The "cleaner" sites become, the less money we all make, period.

Member=Gold
Surfer=Cattle

That attitude is exactly THE WRONG ONE TO HAVE, surfers are potential customers,
paying surfers are good customers you treat
them like cattle you will loose them forever
and what worse they will tell their friends
never to visit certain sites and never to click on banners etc..
Right now we are making money ONLY from new
surfers and that's because anyone who has been
surfing the net for porn has come accross
this kind of shit ( popup hell, autodownload
dialers etc.. ) .
If they had good experiences they would not
be scared to search for porn or to pay for
the stuff they are looking for to get off, be it Teen Movies, or Amateur lesbians..whatever.

With the Billions of people surfing the net
and looking for porn we are either BAD at
marketing or we have pissed them off enough
to not spend their money.
How else do you explain making so little
MONEY ??? ( well most people are ;-))

------------------
CustomDialer
All Niches
83c Minute

dewpoint · 01-03-2002, 10:06 PM

Cruelbastard2u:
I don't have anything of value to add except, it's nice to hear someone else on the board who sees the adult business as both a place to make substantial money, and a place where conventional business ethics could and should be practiced. The sooner we see things like homepage hijacking and dialers eliminated, the better!
Take care.

rollin2 · 01-03-2002, 10:17 PM

cruelbastard2u,
find their company. sue them. unauthorized access of your computer. tresspassing, etc. etc.

put your foot down. get in the news papers, scare these people, they will then go away.

write to congress.

pornjacker · 01-03-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Fatum

DIALERS ARE GOOD
TGP's ARE DEVIL !

Yeah dialers are cool for the telephone industry all they really do is suck money from the porn industry and ensure that the poor fuckers who get ripped off never spend money on porn again.
If you think for one minute that dialers are worth more than long term niche signups your loopy.
fuck dialers

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All your hits belong to me.

UnseenWorld · 01-03-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by burn:
Why can't new browsers just realese a upgrade that eliminates pop ups?

Just switch off Java(script), I think, and voila, no pop-ups. No lotsa things.

------------------
Check out the new content at Wonders of the Unseen World

Snake Doctor · 01-03-2002, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hunter:
That attitude is exactly THE WRONG ONE TO HAVE, surfers are potential customers,
paying surfers are good customers you treat
them like cattle you will loose them forever
and what worse they will tell their friends
never to visit certain sites and never to click on banners etc..
Right now we are making money ONLY from new
surfers and that's because anyone who has been
surfing the net for porn has come accross
this kind of shit ( popup hell, autodownload
dialers etc.. ) .
If they had good experiences they would not
be scared to search for porn or to pay for
the stuff they are looking for to get off, be it Teen Movies, or Amateur lesbians..whatever.

With the Billions of people surfing the net
and looking for porn we are either BAD at
marketing or we have pissed them off enough
to not spend their money.
How else do you explain making so little
MONEY ??? ( well most people are ;-))

I don't know about you but my bank account is doing just fine.
You give the surfers too much credit. Over 90% of them don't know which web sites they were at that day, they just keep clicking from link to link looking for what they want. Most of them don't even make a distinction between the TGP and the galleries they see on the TGP, they think its all the same site.

quote
Right now we are making money ONLY from new
surfers
end quote

the reason you make more money on new surfers is because they don't know where all of the free clean shit is, and after they get slapped around for awhile looking for it on a search engine they figure they'll have to pay for it if they want to see it and sign up.

Unless you have a site that the surfer is paying to access, or a site that you want them to bookmark (Link list, TGP etc) you have no obligation whatsoever to provide them with a pleasant surfing experience, your job is to try and squeeze every cent out of ever surfer, otherwise why are you here?

What did the free site surfer ever do for you? They actively seek password sites to try and get it all for free. They use "leech" programs to try and download your whole members area during a 3 day trial. They try to hotlink your images and movies in chat rooms and on message boards, and just by being at your site they cost you money in bandwidth.

Surfer=Cattle

Snake Doctor · 01-03-2002, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cruelbastard2u:
Lenny I am not complaining about diallers, or about popups or anything like that at all. I fully realise the task facing you guys.

These new programs hijacked my computer. They did nothing at the time I was surfing - it was when I turned it on the next day and tried to go online again that that I discovered what had happened. Not only changed the start page, but used the system admin security to "lock" me out of "internet options" so that I couldn't change it back again. It also never registered on my virus filter program - nothing.

Out of the blue my computer could only go one place online, to the exclusion of everywhere else INCLUDING your sites complete with their popup hell.

My point was that that this would be catastrophic for the average family man surfer not able to fix the probs himself and will most certainly have a major deterrent effect on him ever doing it again.

If what you're saying is true, I agree that its a pretty shady tactic.
If you go to your security settings in IE you can set it to prompt you before running unsigned java applets or active X, that should prevent anyone from fucking with your settings if you don't want them to.

When I hit pages like that I get a prompt asking me if I want to change my homepage or bookmark the site.

Now quit sucking our tits and go sign up for a paysite where you won't ever have to worry about that shit and you can happily jerk off like a red ass monkey watching the banana channel

tekart · 01-04-2002, 12:16 AM

Hunter,

In response to one of your earlier posts,I'd have to agree with what you said!

"That attitude is exactly THE WRONG ONE TO HAVE, surfers are potential customers, paying surfers are good customers you treat them like cattle you will loose them forever and whats worse is that they will tell their friends never to visit certain sites and never to click on banners etc, ect?"

I'd like to also comment about Pop Up Hell...as someone here pointed out...

Adding a popup(s) to your sites are just another way of generating a sell...usually an upsell...but when you take it to the extreme and send the surfer to pop-up hell where screen after screen pops up...well...I can't see the benefit in that!

I mean, not only does the 'average' new customer get pissed...shit..you've got so many screens opening, you're also shooting your self in the foot because the surfer had a better chance of going to one of your affiliates but now...who knows..

Of course I could be wrong but shit..I surfed for porn before getting into this biz...just like many of you do..umm...did I mean. and I never did like those sites that found it either amusing or deliberate to send me through pop up after pop up after pop up after pop up....etc, etc.

I'd like to see a standard across the board...any where from 2-3 pop-ups...thats it.. Why? becuase the more web masters that fall into this type of marketing will only drive up the sell of the software that bans the pop-ups and then what? Of course they're ways to defeat this software but that's just additional work for all of us...

shit...I'm babbling...just wanted to touch on this that's all!

Please...feel free to tell me to GFY...if you have a different view.. lol

TekArt

------------------
I hit the escape key but I'm stil here!

01-03-2002, 06:25 PM	#1
cruelbastard2u Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 4	internet porn will die real soon Hi - I'm not an adult webmaster just somebody who enjoys this forum. I also enjoy surfing the net for porn and I think a recent development is going to put all you guys and girls out of business very quickly unless you do something pronto. Four times in the last 2 days my computer has been hijacked by programs setting all browser defaults to a porn dialler business. The last one even changed password settings so I could not alter the default homepage. Now this was just a major inconvenience to me cos I know how to fix these things, but to the average surfer (your bread and butter) this would be a disaster. Imagine wifey firing up the browser to get a recipe for donuts and being whisked off to "fuck frenzy" or something like that? Most surfers wouldn't know how to disable this shit so they would then have the embarrassment of taking it somewhere and paying money to have the job done. End result? One shit-scared EX porn surfer who is NEVER EVER going to even go looking again. It's not even as if these idiots are going to make any money - no phone company is going to honour the bill after a complaint has been made. All it's going to do is wreck everything for everybody - for me as a very pissed off surfer, and for you as people trying to make a living pushing porn in more legit ways. Main offenders seem to be 0190-Dialer.com and HotWetLove. If you people can do anything at all I suggest you do it real soon otherwise you're going to see your hits go through the floor over the next couple of months. ------------------ I thought marriage licences expired eventually

01-03-2002, 06:26 PM	#2
Eric Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Helm! Posts: 8,818	Promote www.interneteraser.com and this will be all better. =)

01-03-2002, 06:30 PM	#3
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	the eraser even changs back your homepage settings erik?

01-03-2002, 06:31 PM	#4
Scoobs Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Out back Posts: 492	Hey cruel man... I totally agree with you... Pop-up hells, forced dialers and the like are gonna kill this industry! I rekon the people who do that shit are fools, cause it hurts us all! Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about operators that do this shit.... is there?

01-03-2002, 06:35 PM	#5
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	Internet porn is not going to die - too much money involved. But it gives the industry a bad name,that's for sure. ------------------ Vlad's TGP Submission Page ~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

01-03-2002, 06:35 PM	#6
rollin2 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 542	internet porn business will never die. people who think it will, are brain dead. people will always have money for xxx, it has been like that for centuries...

01-03-2002, 06:36 PM	#7
Naughty Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Utopia Posts: 6,482	Somebody welcome the cruelbastard already Go Fuck Yourself CB!

01-03-2002, 06:38 PM	#8
rollin2 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 542	and in regards to traffic hitting the floor, it's totaly the oposite. every day the internet grows by 90,000 new people or something in that range (i think). all i see is traffic going up, and if your smart, you can turn that into big buck$$$

01-03-2002, 06:43 PM	#9
burn Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 507	Why can't new browsers just realese a upgrade that eliminates pop ups?

01-03-2002, 06:47 PM	#10
Exxxotica Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oregun Posts: 4,396	Good point CB, However, most Adultwebmaster are TOTALLY AGAINST scripts the reset or change a users bookmarks or homepage. Sites and webmasters found using these tactics are usually blacklisted from trading or doing business with other sites. Even if these webmasters are never caught, they soon realize that Jacking a hompage really doesnt make them much money.

01-03-2002, 06:55 PM	#11
cruelbastard2u Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 4	To Scoobs and Naughty thank you for the thoughts. To Erika, Equinox and Rollin2, I think you all probably know a whole lot about porn, making galleries, TGP's and a whole heap of stuff that boggles my mind. I also think you know some things about your "target" audience - white, thirties to fifties, hopefully got a credit card etc. But here are some other things - most of them are married and lots of them have kids, and if this stuff starts infecting their computers they will stop looking for porn quicker than you can reset your counters. And what about all those who surf from work computers? How do you think systems admin will feel about this? I'm sorry if you don't see the potential threat this poses, and I don't know what you can do. But I would definately be giving it some thought if my livelihood depended on it. ------------------ I thought marriage licences expired eventually

01-03-2002, 06:56 PM	#13
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	As Exxxotica said, almost all webmasters are against it, but nevertheless there's always black sheep that try to screw the surfer as well as they can. Sad but true. ------------------ Vlad's TGP Submission Page ~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

01-03-2002, 06:57 PM	#14
spacedog Yes that IS me. Bitch. Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 14,149	WE WILL NEVER DIE!!! Not til I SPACEDOG HATH CONQUERED!!! ------------------ My Galleries suck, so please submit yours I'm Fucking Starving..Sign Up for My Sponsors..

01-03-2002, 07:04 PM	#16
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	I remember one's stats showing that some poor soul in the UK got charged for over 3000 continous minutes... ouch. ------------------ Vlad's TGP Submission Page ~ A Handjob Is Still The Best Way To Make $$$ ~

01-03-2002, 07:07 PM	#17
spacedog Yes that IS me. Bitch. Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 14,149	Hmmm.. Poor surfers.. I'm gonna remove my links to offshore clicks dialer.. I don't use no autorun script or nothing, just link to the download page..I'm bad..bad dog! ------------------ My Galleries suck, so please submit yours I'm Fucking Starving..Sign Up for My Sponsors..

01-03-2002, 08:06 PM	#18
Fatum Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 404 Posts: 459	DIALERS ARE GOOD TGP's ARE DEVIL ! ------------------ <A HREF="http://php.offshoreclicks.com/cgi-bin/ref.cgi?abazanweb" TARGET=_blank>Want to really fuck surfer in ass ? Try offshoreclicks dialer. Amazing Rates</A>

01-03-2002, 08:20 PM	#20
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	If you surf for porn from work and get caught, that's your fucking problem because you shouldn't have been doing it anyways. If you surf for porn from home and have kids, then you ought to have filtering software, there's lots of it available for free, so if you don't have it, that's your problem. If you don't like my pop up hell, don't visit my sites, simple as that. If you think pop ups are hurting the business you are sadly mistaken, the exact opposite is true. The "cleaner" sites become, the less money we all make, period. Member=Gold Surfer=Cattle

01-03-2002, 08:45 PM	#21
cruelbastard2u Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 4	Lenny I am not complaining about diallers, or about popups or anything like that at all. I fully realise the task facing you guys. These new programs hijacked my computer. They did nothing at the time I was surfing - it was when I turned it on the next day and tried to go online again that that I discovered what had happened. Not only changed the start page, but used the system admin security to "lock" me out of "internet options" so that I couldn't change it back again. It also never registered on my virus filter program - nothing. Out of the blue my computer could only go one place online, to the exclusion of everywhere else INCLUDING your sites complete with their popup hell. My point was that that this would be catastrophic for the average family man surfer not able to fix the probs himself and will most certainly have a major deterrent effect on him ever doing it again.

01-03-2002, 10:06 PM	#24
dewpoint Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 144	Cruelbastard2u: I don't have anything of value to add except, it's nice to hear someone else on the board who sees the adult business as both a place to make substantial money, and a place where conventional business ethics could and should be practiced. The sooner we see things like homepage hijacking and dialers eliminated, the better! Take care.

01-03-2002, 10:17 PM	#25
rollin2 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 542	cruelbastard2u, find their company. sue them. unauthorized access of your computer. tresspassing, etc. etc. put your foot down. get in the news papers, scare these people, they will then go away. write to congress.

01-04-2002, 12:16 AM	#30
tekart Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: somwhere in time... Posts: 368	Hunter, In response to one of your earlier posts,I'd have to agree with what you said! "That attitude is exactly THE WRONG ONE TO HAVE, surfers are potential customers, paying surfers are good customers you treat them like cattle you will loose them forever and whats worse is that they will tell their friends never to visit certain sites and never to click on banners etc, ect?" I'd like to also comment about Pop Up Hell...as someone here pointed out... Adding a popup(s) to your sites are just another way of generating a sell...usually an upsell...but when you take it to the extreme and send the surfer to pop-up hell where screen after screen pops up...well...I can't see the benefit in that! I mean, not only does the 'average' new customer get pissed...shit..you've got so many screens opening, you're also shooting your self in the foot because the surfer had a better chance of going to one of your affiliates but now...who knows.. Of course I could be wrong but shit..I surfed for porn before getting into this biz...just like many of you do..umm...did I mean. and I never did like those sites that found it either amusing or deliberate to send me through pop up after pop up after pop up after pop up....etc, etc. I'd like to see a standard across the board...any where from 2-3 pop-ups...thats it.. Why? becuase the more web masters that fall into this type of marketing will only drive up the sell of the software that bans the pop-ups and then what? Of course they're ways to defeat this software but that's just additional work for all of us... shit...I'm babbling...just wanted to touch on this that's all! Please...feel free to tell me to GFY...if you have a different view.. lol TekArt ------------------ I hit the escape key but I'm stil here!