All you thumb TGPers are just not thinking, are you????

Everyone should talk to a lawyer.

Thats sounds just as hard as keeping proper docs.

it will be hard for sure for the fact that the smaller image didn't come from a larger explicit image

most don't realize this little part of the law

the thumb can NOT have come from a larger explicit image

Agreed. Better yet hire a attorney and put some funds into his trust account just in case

Come on Choker. You're just too paranoid.

LOL, am I?. These regs basically put us in the situation where we are guilty until we can prove otherwise. You think the inspection is going to go any differently? You think a inspecter is going to say "Well I can't prove you did not make that from a hardcore pic so let's just forget that" ?

actually it's him who needs to prove that the image DID came from a sexually explicit image.

If you have the "source" image from the affiliate that you cropped, how can you prove the "source" image you have from an affiliate is not just another crop of a larger source image?

hummmm.....

it's innocent until proven guilty
not the other way around.

they love smart asses like you in prison

the smart one's will change from thumbs to descriptions.

There won't be any inspections. That's what I believe.

Have you taken down ALL banners you have? Even if it shows a girls face only?

Not true.

I guess you don't know MJ.

THAT right there is the biggest constitutional problem with this law.
It requires us to prove ourselves innocent rather than requiring the DOJ to prove us guilty.

BTW Choker, if you have 10 minutes today I'd like to chat with you.
ICQ 78465690 or email me a phone number lenny at projectrevenue.com

I fully understand what choker is pointing out, only thing I'm not 100% about is what about other pics in the same gallery that are sexually explicit?

I don't see how they can hold you accountable for other pics in the gallery if you are not hosting them. In my mind it's along the same lines as "text" links being fully compliant.

So what are the general thoughts on using non explicit thumbs to link to a explicit gallery? The lawyer I talked to seems to think this is ok, but it never hurts to hear other opinions, especially being this is a untested law.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

Yes I have actually. I still have thumb tgps but al lthe thumbs are my own going to my own galleries which are all complient.

Changing mine to text today. This shit sucks ass.

Damn, that's hot. Congrats for that.

But I couldn't care less really. I don't have to be 2257 complaint.

Well that's the way it is SUPPOSED to be, have you read the new regs? Seems to me we have to prove the model is over 18, not the DOJ has to prove she is under 18.

Good point man. These regs create so many loopholes NOT in our favor.

According to my attorney any thumb on a thumb TGP/MGP would indeed have to be cropped from an original image that is not sexually explicit. However, other images on the gallery that it links to CAN be explicit, as there are no laws prohibiting sexually explicit content.

As for matching thumbs to original images.. you wouldn't have to crop the thumbs yourself, trading scripts keep logs of which thumbs link to which galleries, it won't be difficult to find the image on the gallery that the thumb was created from.

I can't wait til this shit blows over. Its fucking wrong and there is no way everyone is going to have all their pages clean by midnight? Gimme a fucking break. I know some of us are more at risk than others, but are they going to arrest thousands of webmasters over the weekend? yeah right.

I guess we will see what happens, but I think they already have their targets planned out before this violation of our rights is struck down. I'm glad I'm not a "big player" right now, that's for sure.

I think you're a little paraniod dude, the TGP owner has to be hosting/producing/redistributing/bla bla bla the explicit content.

Having a softcore thumb cropped from a hardcore image is the same as linking a text description to a hardcore image.

while i agree with you that they have their targets already, i don't agree that the targets are 'big players'. the goal is to get inspections and arrests on record. small guys who can't afford the big name lawyers in this industry will plea instead of fight the case in court. they know that the big guys have lawyered up already, plus inspections on large companies would take time. they want volume and headlines.

Yep that's pretty much what mine told me too.

So take note sponsors give us some non sexually explicit images in the hardcore galleries, so we have something to work with.

I'm not paranoid about this aspect of compliance. I am jsut throwing out some food for thought. However .....

You are wrong sir. The new regs specifically address this issue.

Dont thumbs usually come from the gallery the thumb links too? If thats the case than the gallery the thumb is linking to will show the none explicit picture wont it?

The Bush Administration is setting up a special place for us all.

GITMO2.

the government has one thing on their mind, $$$

There is no reason to go after a small guy/affiliate webmaster, I will be very surprised if they do. Of course they want headlines. And if they just want to make an example of someone, again it won't be some small time webmaster over some affiliate content. They'll go to the source of it most likely.

well i hope we're BOTH wrong and nobody is ever inspected. actually, to be honest i don't think there's anything wrong with asking secondary producers to hold records. what i have a MAJOR problem with is unannounced unwarranted searches. fuck, the IRS doesn't do unannounced audits, do they? they schedule an audit and that's that. you get your shit together and do it. there's no fucking reason they should DICTATE your hours of operation and be able to come into your home or business without a warrant.

if they want to schedule an inspection, fine. secondary producers would then have a set time to get the documents (if they don't have them already) and prepare for an audit. i mean, what the fuck has happened to this country?

Bush

5678

I'm going all text by tonight

I guess I better read it again... for the sixth time.

If you are not text at this point you are fucked

hit me up

Where is anyone getting the idea that these guys are just going to show up at the door? Not the way they do things - and the reason for the posting of hours of biz is so that they can schedule inspections. The only type of person they just "show-up" on would be someone they already had in their scopes a long time ago - and wouldnt be little thumb tgp owners

"Advance notice of record
inspections shall not be given."

shall = will

"Advance notice of record
inspections will not be given."

Thats all fine and dandy but if you want to get down and tecnical about the whole thing how does DOJ know a girls face pic on a banner didnt come from a hardcore shot . Have fun trying to keep track of that shit every fucking page each banner is used on and shit that blows Te assholes who thought this new revisions up have never made any type of sites whatsoever becasue if they did they would realize how much backtracking it wll take for each and every page now. And if you havent been t the lawyer yet ts a little late now but if you have the revisions read and reread and reread again most dont realize they are to keep copies of all pages that 2257 is required on for 7 years Thats a fuckin lot of pages to keep and Now tell me how will you do it if using Smartthumbs,comus,or tmmanager or the likes of them that update from every 5 mins to every hr or whatever if ou go by the letter of the rule you'll have to keep a copy of everytime the page gets recreated IMAGINE That LOL thats just In fucking sane but thats what they want

this is going to change everything if not right on the 23 soon enough ...

Given that police, fbi, prosecutors and judges are paid the same amount of money regardless of the case they are working on, it does not make sense for the federal government to cast a wide net over a bunch of small fish. There are no chances with mom n pop operations for big fines to fund ongoing operations or to make big splashy headlines. The US government also doesn't generally put itself into a position of filling up the prison system with a bunch of white collar criminals violating laws like this. Especially not during the initial stages of trying to enforce such a broad ranging new set of regulations that may or may not be constitutional.

Previously, when the Federal government went after the adult entertainment industry, they went after the largest companies they could find. Specifically so they could make deals involving things like large fines and restrictions on the type of businesses these people could or would run in the future. If the Feds were to go after all the little guys, great, what are they going to get? A bunch of people that weren't making all that much money to start with agreeing to leave the business and never come back on a plea bargain?

Why bother, when there are bound to be some nice sized targets that will have good attorneys who tell them to plead it out to a fine situation, admit no real wrongdoing, and can continue to run their business after its all said and done.

Bigger targets also mean more chances for the inspections to find violations, some of which may not be correctable with time to find the ids and releases, since they may no longer exist or the companies that shot the content originally are so long gone that no one knows where the data went.

The new law is not very well thought out, it's going to be very hard for the government to defend certain parts of it in a court of law, so it should be very interesting to see where they initially focus their enforcement efforts -- that should tell everyone exactly what they see as the strong points in their cases, and attorneys should be more able to advise from that point than they are today.

Of course there also exists the possibility that the government won't initiate inspections or attempt to issue indictments for quite some time. As we've all seen based on the fact that it's been a year since the original changes were proposed and the percentage of companies in adult that have gotten anywhere near true compliance is minimal. This shows the government that if they start this now, then back off of it for 6, 12, 18 months, we'll just get slack again and decide that nothing is going to happen over it. Especially if the FSC is granted a TRO.

If the FSC gets their TRO, I'd (if I were the government) sit back and wait for things to get quiet again, start building my cases based on the weak points in the TRO, and then just drop the bomb around the holidays or so...

If you read the FSCs motion, one of the many reasons they are seeking an injuction/TRO is that the DOJ only gave webmasters 30 days to comply with the new regs - not enough time. I think the feds will wait until the outcome of the hearing before they move on anyone. They would look pretty silly if they started checking records prior to the ruling and a TRO was granted based on the "insufficient time" argument.
That being said, my lawyer told me not to take any chances and to make sure
that I am compliant before midnight. Obviously I will be listening to him.

remember who started this attack - ashcroft. the goal of these regulations are to send a message to the 'religious right' that the Bush administration is getting tough on online porn. this has nothing to do with protecting kids. this is politics.

now what's a better way to appease these religio-facist creeps? send all your fed agents into a huge paysite that probably has the best laywers in the industry ready to fight this case in court? or get ~50 or so small time part-timers who will plea. the result - convictions and headlines "Crackdown on Online Porn - raids conducted across thre country blah blah"

you telling me that these Free Speech Coalition lawyers are going to spend a minute defending a TGP operator or gallery submitter who makes a couple hundred bucks a month in court? those guys are sitting ducks.


but i digress - i hope we're both wrong. porn is not illegal. these new regulations are absolute bullshit and won't hold up to a real legal challenge. but until that real legal challenge, there could be casualties.

scare tactic, you just wanna scoop up all the thumb tgp's

I have never bought a tgp or mpg my friend. Why should I when I can build them cheaper?

Read your own post again. Republicans do things for money, it's that simple. Especially the Bush administration if even 10% of Michael Moore's rants are on target.

The Federal government is a business. Right now it's a Republican big business.

I'll stick with the fact that history pretty much always repeats itself.

I don't think the DOJ has this kinda time to fuck around with thousands of TGP's.

Currently our Rep. gov't is in the business of defense spending. The new destroyers we are coming out with are almost double the size of a regular destroyer and cost 2 times more than the 2nd to last (wholely completed) carrier did. Their original cost was projected at 1/10th.

Instead of 760 fighter planes, we will get 240 for 4 times the original price. Why? Because we are making some defense companies seriously fat right now.

Eventually we will get a democrat and the market will shift to personal technology again. Then get a Rep. who will start a war and pull the rug out from under technology and put the money back into defense...