james616

I have an unusual situation and stumbled upon this website and feel there may be some people that could give me some advice.

I have been given some great adult content from a retired photographer's family. The estimate is 30,000 to 35,000 photos of 100's or 1000's of women, mainly college age.

This collection dates back to the early 60's and go up until a couple of years ago. The pictures are 80% "Playboy" style shots in studio (on slide, 35mm, medium and large formats) and 5% hardcore and 15% outdoor voyer shots.

There isn't a single release for any of them. He took these for his personal pleasure - really.

Now the family needs cash to settle debts and has asked if I could do something with them.

I thought about selling on e-bay but the going price sucks. What about a porn site? Would I be in deep legal crap for having no releases? Suggestion and thought for what to do is appreciated...

James

Bake

Just use them in news groups and call them public domain.

TheSpaceBulldog

Check with an attorney. Personally, I would not chance it. A release is not required and no proof of age is required for the "playboy" style stuff but that can leave you open to legal a hassle from the models. I would burn the hardcore images if I were you.

Gary

My daddy used to always tell me, "Son, it's only illegal if you get caught. Now hand me that knife."

james616

Um, we need to generate cash for the family so giving them away for free isn't a good option.

quiet

you either need to be a keeper/custodian of records, or license the content from someone who is.

TheSpaceBulldog

Servey Says

XXX

Wrongo dipshit. Check the laws and get back to us please.

quiet

okay clueless.

TheSpaceBulldog

OK. Since you are so smart. Please give me a clue. Show me where ANYTHING in US law says that records have to be kept for softcore nudity.

quiet

we are talking about adult content, shot in the US, for the purpose of a commerical adult paysite members area. correct? 18 USC 2257 blah blah

quiet

5% hardcore

now go fuck off loser.

Mike Semen

{sigh}

[This message has been edited by Mike Semen (edited 12-30-2001).]

TheSpaceBulldog

Is that your proof? LOL. You clearly have not read and or do not understand article 2257. Go back to school son. Read the law and THEN you can come back and beg for my forgiveness.

BV

don't do that unless you want trouble
go ask an attorney, really
if the pictures are posed nudes I'm sure you will need a model releases from the models, say versus if they were pictures taken outdoors in a public area where there was no expectation of privacy. In either case you will also need licensing from the owner of the pics. If you can prove ownership from an inheritance I'm sure that that is the same. There also might be some sort of statue of limitations on the older pics that might be in the collection. I think these would be the most valuable as well. So I will tell you again, pay a few bucks or whatever you have to do, just go seek the advice of a professional attorney in this field and follow his advice.

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TheSpaceBulldog

Blow me ya fuckstick. I specifically said the "playboy" stuff and to burn the hardcore. Once again I say READ you prick!

BV

You can't be serious.
If you are can you post a reference source please?

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TheSpaceBulldog

I am very serrious. Most people think that 2257 requires a model release but 2257 has nothing to do with releases. It is all for proof of age for sexual material, not nudity.

It obviously leaves you open to legal hassles but that is why I said to talk to an attorney. There is no law that states that a realease is required. A release simply takes the rights away from the model. You legally can post without it but you could get sued too.

Since there is no law that states this, I can not show youlegal documentation on it. How obout you show me a law and prove me wrong?

quiet

proof. i'm not 'proving' anything to you. fuck off joker. go back to school - lol.

post some stats hero, traffic or sales. well see who's the 'son'. bring on more of your bullshit hero.

us fools who run paysites love to put up these statements:

PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE LINKS CONTAINS SEXUALLY ORIENTED ADULT MATERIAL INTENDED FOR INDIVIDUALS 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER. IF YOU'RE NOT YET 18, IF ADULT MATERIAL OFFENDS YOU, OR IF YOU ARE ACCESSING THIS LINK INTERNET FROM ANY COUNTRY OR LOCALE WHERE ADULT MATERIAL IS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY LAW, GO NO FURTHER

All Models on this site are over 18
Records required by 28 C.F.R 75.1 et. seq. and 18 U.S.C. 2257 available to the Attorney General of the United States only are kept at the offices of xxxxxxxx. All material on this website produced Between January xxxx and the present date. Records maintained by xxxxx.

cause we're fools and all.

careful BV ;)

TheSpaceBulldog

WTF? Look, it is this simple... Go read the law. That is all I ask. I do not give a rats ass if you have been running pay site for 120 years. That does not make you right and it obviously does not make you smart. I never said it was not a godd idea to do what you say. I only said it was not required.

quiet

HIS question included hardcore. not interested in your bullshit fuckhead.

[This message has been edited by quiet (edited 12-30-2001).]

spacedog

O.K..
Not that anyone on this boards gonna listen to anything I have to offer,
But here goes:

Create a paysite in the photographers honor,
as a showcase of his work..Like a memoriam.

The photographer owns the copyrights..Since he has passed on, his family now owns the copyrights..
Since the photos are prior to 1997, no records are required in respect to models ages..
As far as releases go, it is presumed to be under release due to the nature of the content & style of the photograph,,
Obviously the model consented to being photographed if she is appearing nude..
Also, since these photo's are nude, it can also be presumed that the models were compensated, therefore no release should be required.
just my 2cents..not that anyones gonna give a fuck

ToolGuy

Interesting question, you may want to give Joe a call (J.D. Obenberger) his number is on http://www.xxx-law.com/ He knows his stuff when it comes to this sort of thing.
Good Luck

BV

Quiet,
in that last post it looks like you called me a fuckhead. that's just the way it looks right?

TheSpaceBulldog

Great suggestion. Since you mention JD's site, it is a good place to read about 2257.
http://www.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/18_USC_2257_text.html

quiet

a fucking men. no shit, talk to your lawyer. EVERYTHING on all my paysites is looked over by my lawyer before I do a fucking thing. It's like going to message board and asking how to do surgery.

jesus.

quiet

huh? no. sorry bro

[This message has been edited by quiet (edited 12-30-2001).]

BV

retired as in not breathing or retired as in makes little wood things in the garage all day?

and if he is still alive, how can his family give them to you if there his pics?

when I first read the post I thought you meant he was dead, that's why I referenced inheritance.

BTW, what kind of outdoor voyeur stuff is it?

BV

whew, I was worried for a minute :-)
big big pimpin!

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Tanker

here is some information taken from Jim Grady's site www.5000dpi.com

Proof of Age / Title 2257
Not only do the models need to be age 18 or above, but the photographers need to check their I.D. and make copies of those documents. There is another difference of opinions concerning this law. The law states "actual sexually explicit conduct" when listing the times when copies must be made of TWO forms of I.D. Well damn, what does that mean? Again, the words "Actual" and "Sexual" are subjective. One Judge may say nude models are OK, but if she has a Dildo, that is "Sexual". Another Judge in a conservative area may say that the mere act of being nude is "actual sexual explicit conduct".

CYA -- Cover Your Ass! Make sure that you or the photographers check TWO forms of I.D. on each model and make copies of those documents. One way to make those copies is to have the model hold them up close to her face and for the photographer to take a couple of snaps shots of them.

The Federal Code (law) 2257 also states that certain other steps must be taken with those copies. Cutting to the basics it works like this: The photographer must make two copies of TWO different I.D. documents for each model. He must then store those items in a secure location and have them available for review should law enforcement ever want to check them. Then, he must state or publish who has those records (known as the Custodian of Record) and the exact address (no P.O. Boxes) that they are stored at should the cops ever want to review them. If you are a photographer you can be your own Custodian of Record and use your office or studio address. In most cases, particularly if you office out of your home, it is better to pay a small fee to a lawyer to be your Custodian of Record.

Another reason to use a lawyer is the impression it leaves on others. It makes you look like you are successful and know what the heck is going on. If some ambitious cop was cruising the Internet looking for somebody to investigate, he will not feel that curious if he must go to a lawyer's office to check your records. The natural assumption on his part would be that you are following the law and that the lawyer is guiding you to follow it completely.

The law also states that the product must list the Custodian of Record information on it. Video companies will print it right on the back of the box, and often repeat it in the first few seconds of the tape. Webmasters need to include a statement on the first page of the site that 2257 information is available at some location. They would then carefully record which images came from which photographers, and the Custodian of Records information for each photographer, etc. It is unclear (like so many other laws) if the Webmaster actually needs to keep copies of the records themselves, or just a very accurate list of the Title 2257 information for each photographer he works with.

Take notice that this law covers images produced outside the United States. We recently spoke with a photographer that wanted to visit some foreign country and take advantage of all the young girls desperate for money. He thought he could hire dozens of models for a few dollars an hour to do whatever shots he wanted. But, to follow the law he must have the Title 2257 information, and he wasn't sure that the poor girls he wanted to use would be able to provide even one I.D., much less two. Legally, we have no idea where he would have stood had he ever been checked by the law enforcement types, but why risk it?

Even if you think you are safe, having the cops come by and check your stuff, and investigate your images and your paperwork is a HASSLE. Why give them reason to visit? This link will take you to the Cornell University Law School site dedicated to Title 2257. Take a look for yourself, maybe print a copy, but also make sure your photographers know this law and follow it exactly.

Model Releases
Read this carefully. You must have a signed Model Release to use the images for anything outside your own studio or home. If you take pictures of your girlfriend and want to post them, you must have a Model Release, even if she wanted you to take the pictures. You must also have Title 2257 information as listed above. She may be fine with it now, but if she leaves you for the guy with the bigger wallet, you better have your ass covered or take the darn images down. If she wants to get nasty, she could sue you even if you do take them down. A good lawyer would tell her about all the damage to her reputation you did by allowing other people to have copies of those images, etc. You could get sued.

A Model Release is a binding contract. A good one is rock solid and irrevocable. If she marries the next Governor, you are covered and can still post the images all you want. A good Model Release will allow you to alter the images in any way you want. You can call her Betty Blowjob if you want, and tell the world she once did 100 guys in a row, and she can do nothing to stop you. A Model Release is PROTECTION, not just a piece of paper. It should be detailed. It should be signed and witnessed the day you shoot.

Be Warned: Because a Model Release is a binding contract there are obligations for both sides, not just the model. She is signing it because she is promised or given something in return. If the photographer doesn't give her what he promised the Model Release is no good. You can have 100 of them all signed and witnessed, but if the photographer didn't pay her, it means nothing.

Read the first line in a model release and you'll notice the words "for good and valuable consideration" -- That means she was paid! If she signs the release and he fails to pay her, or the check bounces, or other promises are not kept, the release is no damn good! Yes, she signed it, but if the money is not received as promised, the release is not any good -- We know of a site that had to take down 1000s of pictures because the models didn't get paid as promised, even though the site had paid the photographer and the models had signed a release. Protect your investment by making sure the Model Releases you use, or that your photographers use, are solid, that they are properly executed and witnessed, and that the model is paid as she was promised.

These two links will download a great Model Release that is solid. It was originally written by the lawyers working for the American Society of Media Photographers. It is the same as those signed by models for Playboy, Penthouse and all sorts of other publications. The only difference is that this version has a blank line for the photographer to write in his name, while the ones they use are pre-printed with the photographer and magazine name already in place. If you decide to use this version, we suggest you open it and change the blank line to read the photographers name.


Model Release in WORD Format .... Model Release in Acrobat Format

We have the model print the first four spaces (Name, SSN, Date of Birth and Today's Date), and then sign the signature line. We then witness it right away and make a copy for her.

Get a receipt that you paid her. We use a form like a time sheet that shows the time she arrived, the hourly wage, the total hours and all the other details (Name, SSN, Date of Birth and Shoot Date). We total her wages on that page and have her sign it when we pay her. That way you always have proof that you paid her. She can't claim that she never got the payment if you make her sign for it.

Pay in CASH! It may seem silly, but it is best to pay in cash if you can. Your first thought may be that you could issue a check and use it as a receipt, but paying in cash is better. The Model Release starts with the line "for good and valuable consideration I hereby release". If she doesn't get the the money, the release is no good. Cash is the best way to do it.

EXAMPLE: Say the model comes over and does all sorts of naked photos. She signs the release and you pay her with a check. She gets home and the boyfriend is pissed that she posed naked. If she never cashes that check, your model release is no good! True deal, proven in more than one Court case.

For the Model Release to be good she must accept the "good and valuable consideration", which in simple words means MONEY! A check isn't money, it is written permission for your bank to transfer money to her or to her bank, but it isn't money. CASH is money. If you pay in cash, the Model Release is solid the second that cash hits her hand. She can change her mind in 10 seconds and toss that money back at you, but once it was in her hand, she accepted the terms of the Model Release and the contractual obligations have been fulfilled.

CYA -- Cover Your Ass! Make sure you, or whomever the photographer is, has a Model Release for every darn image you are buying, producing or posting.

The End. Remember, we are not lawyers. The information on this page was gathered during 16 years in the Glamour Girl and Adult Photography business, and almost 12 years in the Adult Film Processing business. If you have questions that are not answered here, please contact a lawyer in your area.



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Tanker
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quiet

nah, screw all that shit. just follow spacebullfuck's advice. much easier.