Why JasonandAlex.com is leaving NATS. - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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SmokeyTheBear

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#101

03-29-2005, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Trax

yes... i kwno
to me it seems as if programs can choose how to display the numbers...
I would prefer them being forced to show first page hits and 2nd page.
They can display the conversion rates how they want to (even based on 2nd page hits).
I just wanna see first page raw and unique for myself...
thats what I meant

Theres only one reason to show second page hits.. ( to make your ratios look better ) . Its not a terrible thing ,but gives the affiliate almost no information to work with..

Spacash shows all of the hits , first, second, join etc so that you can tell if its a problem with the sponsors design perhaps ( like they arent getting a good first to second page ratio )

It really helps you analyze your traffic in a much more detailed fashion. A good affiliate isnt going to be fooled by a low second page ratio , they know approx the hits they send , so it really doesnt help in the end , ( except for gfy fodder )

ideally i would like to see all sponsors showing stats this way , but first and second page hits would be nice.

hatisblack at yahoo.com
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DarkJedi

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#102

03-29-2005, 10:56 AM

5 rebils is not that bad.
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Major (Tom)

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#103

03-29-2005, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by iBanker

It was mentioned MONTHS ago and still wasn't fixed. Did someone from NATS have you say that?

Nope i speak for myself. I'm nobodys bitch. if you know me you know that..

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Nader

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#104

03-29-2005, 10:58 AM

How long have you guys been using NATS?
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Kimmykim

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#105

03-29-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear

Theres only one reason to show second page hits.. ( to make your ratios look better ) . Its not a terrible thing ,but gives the affiliate almost no information to work with..

Spacash shows all of the hits , first, second, join etc so that you can tell if its a problem with the sponsors design perhaps ( like they arent getting a good first to second page ratio )

It really helps you analyze your traffic in a much more detailed fashion. A good affiliate isnt going to be fooled by a low second page ratio , they know approx the hits they send , so it really doesnt help in the end , ( except for gfy fodder )

ideally i would like to see all sponsors showing stats this way , but first and second page hits would be nice.

Only you would turn this into an ad for Spacash ;) Nice Vaio you guys are giving away btw --
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#106

03-29-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker

Nope i speak for myself. I'm nobodys bitch. if you know me you know that..

DUke

that's not what you told me in bed last night...

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iBanker

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#107

03-29-2005, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by NichePay_Nader

How long have you guys been using NATS?

Since November 1ish

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Alex From San Diego

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#108

03-29-2005, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear

I dont think anyone is insinuating NATS is doing anything intentionally or that they would help anyone do anything like this.

The problem is if your affiliates arent getting paid , they will move on to more lucrative sponsors.

Unless a sponsor is on the ball they arent going to notice , because glitches like this mean the sponsor gets MORE money and the affiliates LESS, so everything appears better until your affiliate base starts leaving for better ratio's.

If the problem isn't addressed what else can you do really but switch software.

You are exactly correct Smokey which is why we had to make a switch. When a large portion of the day is spent on problem solving tracking issues, password management issues etc...all related to your software, the core of your business suffers to include affiliates. You end up scrambling and doing additional work that shouldn't be necessary in the first place. You have to have a comfort level with whatever software you use and our comfort level or confidence was just not there any longer hence the switch.

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Major (Tom)

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#109

03-29-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Alex From San Diego

What makes you think we didn't point it out? We would be ignorant to have not pointed it out.

I've had times where i had an issue and they said they would look into it and if it wasnt looked into I was on the phone screaming to john or charlie. did you do the same? This is a simple post back error or a misconfig. Thats why you have to check all your billers and compare that to nats. Then if you find a discrepancy bring it up to them. I dont see what the big deal is here. Granted it's a pain in the ass for you, but everyone is going to get paid, right? This wasnt done intentionally or with motive right? Nats had no motive to do this. Did they benefit or take any money from this? Did you benefit or take any money? NO. It's just a simple post back error. If this was done out of malice there would be motive... There is no motive.
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#110

03-29-2005, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by NichePay_Nader

How long have you guys been using NATS?

Me or jason and alex?
I was the first person to use nats
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#111

03-29-2005, 11:09 AM

Still no response from NATS?

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SmokeyTheBear

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#112

03-29-2005, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Only you would turn this into an ad for Spacash ;) Nice Vaio you guys are giving away btw --

LOL i seriously tried not to , but if you have seen the stats area you know it kicks ass.

Like i said i wish every sponsor had stats like that , but i dont expect them all to , all i want for sure is first and second page hits.

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#113

03-29-2005, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker

This wasnt done intentionally or with motive right? Nats had no motive to do this. Did they benefit or take any money from this? Did you benefit or take any money? NO. It's just a simple post back error. If this was done out of malice there would be motive... There is no motive.
Duke

Very true, NATS had no motive or reason to cause an issue for JSA, nor would they have done this on purpose.

There are a lot of issues here between the two companies, and I find it more than a little distasteful to see that JSA wants to create such a drama out of what should have been a simple move from one backend software company to another. The situation could have been handled with class and grace but instead you get multiple threads with unproven claims in them.
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#114

03-29-2005, 11:12 AM

It sucks to be the owner of affiliate program that uses NATS and reads this thread now...
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#115

03-29-2005, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by bangman

Still no response from NATS?

NATS is not in the habit of creating drama for its own sake.
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iBanker

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#116

03-29-2005, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Very true, NATS had no motive or reason to cause an issue for JSA, nor would they have done this on purpose.

There are a lot of issues here between the two companies, and I find it more than a little distasteful to see that JSA wants to create such a drama out of what should have been a simple move from one backend software company to another. The situation could have been handled with class and grace but instead you get multiple threads with unproven claims in them.

I posted the proof, are you publicly telling me it is not true? Yes or no. Quit bending my words.

YES or NO

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Major (Tom)

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#117

03-29-2005, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Very true, NATS had no motive or reason to cause an issue for JSA, nor would they have done this on purpose.

There are a lot of issues here between the two companies, and I find it more than a little distasteful to see that JSA wants to create such a drama out of what should have been a simple move from one backend software company to another. The situation could have been handled with class and grace but instead you get multiple threads with unproven claims in them.

I dont know their reasons, im sure they had them. I respect that. But what people are missing here is its just a simple post back error that can be imported back in. Nothing is lost.. That is what puzzles me.. It's like a wire not showing up at your bank. It's not like someone stole your money, it's there, you just need to call the bank to fix the error and put the money back in your account. It's nothing more than that.
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swami

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#118

03-29-2005, 11:19 AM

I don't like to kick someone whe they are down but let me indulge myself by saying that i reported problems in GFY with NATS tracking in a few threads and like European Lee I got howled down by all the sychopants.
I said then and I say now that i will not use sponsors using NATS.(Unless their conversions are 40% better than everyone elses)
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iBanker

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#119

03-29-2005, 11:19 AM

And you think we would switch for one simple error? Need I put on record many more example with concrete proof of why we switched? I can if you would like me to.

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toonces

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#120

03-29-2005, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by iBanker

I posted the proof, are you publicly telling me it is not true? Yes or no. Quit bending my words.

YES or NO

For someone who said they dont have time to spend all day tracking down errors, you certainly have a lot of time to talk about it.

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#121

03-29-2005, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

NATS is not in the habit of creating drama for its own sake.

I would point out to do your homework before you open your mouth,
but since you are kinda biased on this matter.... I wont

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Radical Rick

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#122

03-29-2005, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Trent Edison

It sucks to be the owner of affiliate program that uses NATS and reads this thread now...

Not necessarily.

GFY is like the adult media, people jump on here to broadcast their opinions, problems or updates. Like the media, there's always a few core people that jump on board to believe anything they read without concern for the true details that led to the problem or regard for the other half of the story.

Every problem has it's source, a few posts about 1 comany's problems does not prove that every other program using NATS has the same problem, to think that is ignorant.

Just for the record, we have a very close relationship with NATS and have gone great lengths to insure the accuracy of their tracking. We double check their reports with our processors daily and there has never been any discrepancy.

If anyone would like to talk more about this, or has any concerns or questions regarding Radical Cash & our sales tracking, feel free to contact me anytime.

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#123

03-29-2005, 11:28 AM

How does a post back error turn into malicious intent or shaving? Anytime one server in one locartion has to send data to another there can be loss. That's why you check stats in both places and that's why you have the ability to add sales for people so they get paid fairly. If the person running the program is dilligent and honest there is no problem.

This is similar to when you use third party traffic counters... it's the net... something always gets lost somewhere along the way so you have to be smart enough to double check it. If the route from say CCBill's box in Az to your Nats (or whatever other system you use) box in East Jabib has a problem then there wil be data not posted back. Check your stats in both places regularly and make sure your affiliates get all their sales assigned to them and there is no problem. This is true with ANY software even if you write your own.

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JOKER

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#124

03-29-2005, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Very true, NATS had no motive or reason to cause an issue for JSA, nor would they have done this on purpose.

There are a lot of issues here between the two companies, and I find it more than a little distasteful to see that JSA wants to create such a drama out of what should have been a simple move from one backend software company to another. The situation could have been handled with class and grace but instead you get multiple threads with unproven claims in them.

It's not that JSA had the intention to get this started, and you know it.

If you force someone into the corner with false allegations, don't wonder about the outcome

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Art Del Gado

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#125

03-29-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

NATS is not in the habit of creating drama for its own sake.

who in their right mind would want to cause drama for themselves... i cant wait to see what nats has to say about this..

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Yo Adrian

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#126

03-29-2005, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by toonces

For someone who said they dont have time to spend all day tracking down errors, you certainly have a lot of time to talk about it.

You're joking right?

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iBanker

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#127

03-29-2005, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by toonces

For someone who said they dont have time to spend all day tracking down errors, you certainly have a lot of time to talk about it.

Spending all day tracking down errors and spending all day defending the honesty and validity of our program are two different things. Do you honestly believe I am here because this is something I enjoy?

What I enjoy is seeing a backend software solution work as promised. That maes me happy. Paying out all of our affiliates on time with the correct amounts makes me happy.

People need to see past all the opinions. I knew as this thread grew, more NATS users would defend NATS. I understand that. I used to do it everytime John sent Alex or I a thread link asking us to say "a few kind words". And we did.

Sometimes though, life throws you a curve, you need to step back, admit fault in your decisions, apologize to those you affected, and make things right with everyone.

We could no longer continue with NATS. I hope others can. If it is working for them, I wish them great success, and hope they do well. For us, that was not the case.

www.JasonandAlex.com
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Kimmykim

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#128

03-29-2005, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by iBanker

I posted the proof, are you publicly telling me it is not true? Yes or no. Quit bending my words.

YES or NO

I'm not bending your words, so stop crying like a little girl about it.

You claim your proof is perfect, we'll see how it comes out in the wash I guess.

I'd also be more than willing to bet that when NATS releases a statement regarding this situation, it will be oriented on the facts and that alone.
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iBanker

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#129

03-29-2005, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

I'm not bending your words, so stop crying like a little girl about it.

You claim your proof is perfect, we'll see how it comes out in the wash I guess.

I'd also be more than willing to bet that when NATS releases a statement regarding this situation, it will be oriented on the facts and that alone.

Still no YES or NO.

I am not attacking anyone here verbally, although I see you are. Are you acting in their capacity? Are you paid by them any sort of compensation? I am just curious.

Do you now work for them or with them? Are you in constant contact with them today?

All questions I would love to know the answers to. Call me a little girl all you want if it makes you feel better.

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toonces

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#130

03-29-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Yo Adrian

You're joking right?

No, I'm not joking. This drama has been up here for two days. Its obvious the business relationship was not working for either party. What's going to settle it...pistols at dawn? Its just mud slinging at this point, which doesn't do either company any good. Its time to move on.

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Kimmykim

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#131

03-29-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by JOKEREMPIRE

It's not that JSA had the intention to get this started, and you know it.

If you force someone into the corner with false allegations, don't wonder about the outcome

Had they left it at the original thread about moving backends it wouldn't have come to allegations.
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iBanker

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#132

03-29-2005, 11:44 AM

The offer is still open. Anyone can come look at our books, go through our software, or view our evidence of any errors or mistakes.

JSA Media Group, Inc.
10225 Barnes Canyon Road, Suite A204
San Diego, California 92121

We hide nothing.

www.JasonandAlex.com
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TDF

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#133

03-29-2005, 11:44 AM

kimmys just doing her job

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iBanker

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#134

03-29-2005, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by toodamnfli

kimmys just doing her job

I was just curious as to what her "job" is.

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mensniche

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#135

03-29-2005, 11:50 AM

Ok guys here are my

I have been around for about 3 years and in this time I have seen allot of things come and go, good companies fight back for there reputation and be better for it in the long run and some people/companies fall over at the first problem.

Below Is what I have seen in the cascading/backend billing/fulfillment software.

MPA
----

Oystein and Gary - Both very good professional people who have great business minds have got a very good foothold in the market, there company has had some bad press in the past but have come back from this and are now a VERY solid solution, never talk down or slander any other company. There solution is very solid and this is why we have stuck with them and are very happy with them over the last 2 years.

NATS
-----

Very unprofessional, met them at internet for the first time, did not want to sell us there solution and seem to be very unprofessional on the message boards, there software is very untested and new and therefore people I have spoke to believe they will run into problems which MPA have already been through... only time will tell if this company is as strong as MPA and will come through the "teething stage"

My conclusion is go with the longer standing more professional set-up, this is only what I have seen and this is all I can comment on, maybe we meet NATS on a bad day or maybe others have had a better response, either way I strongly recommend MPA for the long term solution and I will offer my past comments and suggestions to anyone.

MensNiche is here to help everyone and make some $$ on the way!

Good luck with any decisions you guys make and hopefully you remember my comments if it works out... have a great day!

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#136

03-29-2005, 11:50 AM

enter wrest eng

Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site?

Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me
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Amputate Your Head

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#137

03-29-2005, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Had they left it at the original thread about moving backends it wouldn't have come to allegations.

Had they not said that the reason we switched backends was because we were "asked to leave NATS", this thread probably wouldn't even exist.

step off.

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#138

03-29-2005, 11:52 AM

holy shit
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Kimmykim

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#139

03-29-2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by iBanker

I was just curious as to what her "job" is.

Well, then, since you asked, I'll be more than happy to clue you in.

I'm a consultant, people hire me to figure out how they can make more money. I'm pretty good at it, too, that's the reason I consult instead of being an employee somewhere. I've got great references if you guys need some help.

As to the NATS situation, I do PR for them. They are a decent bunch of guys, one of my favorite clients actually. They don't go around starting needless drama and make my life harder.

My comments in this thread are my own, and I base them on what's been posted and what I've heard from multiple sources with involvement in the situation.

My advice to them was not to post in this thread, but to make a statement regarding the situation that doesn't involve mudslinging or more silly drama. It's up to them what they choose to do but I'm sure they will do it with a good bit of grace and class.
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tical

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#140

03-29-2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Had they left it at the original thread about moving backends it wouldn't have come to allegations.

I think he's doing this because of

Originally posted by iBanker

I will say it one more time here and now. This was not out to harm anyone, but when another man (John Albright, owner of NATS to my knowledge) calls our Company or any of its employees liars, I am forced to defend all. I speak the truth. We run a solid business built on firm ground, and I will have words (or initiate immediate legal action) with anyone the makes such defamatory claims saying otherwise.

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tical

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#141

03-29-2005, 11:53 AM

hope you guys all get this sorted out

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Yo Adrian

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#142

03-29-2005, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

step off.

.. I'm doin' the hump!

(sorry, had to.. )

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#143

03-29-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Yo Adrian

.. I'm doin' the hump!

(sorry, had to.. )

amp doesnt know negro spirituals

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#144

03-29-2005, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Had they left it at the original thread about moving backends it wouldn't have come to allegations.

Thanx for admitting the false allegations issue.

And exactly that was what forced them to post more than the original thread.

Sometimes trying to 'save face' the wrong way can turn around and smack you right in the face. Watch this thread, it's the best example.

However, I hope this gets resolved for both parties satisfaction without hurting business.

I know JSA are straight shooters with nothing to hide,but after John calling them liars and telling me some more what was not posted here I could not say I'm sure I could say the same about NATS and the company behind it.

I tend to always hear both sides of a story, one was way off without proof,
the other looked more on side of truth and gave proof, now who do you want to blame for what they believe in?

Remaining professional is always a good business descision, don't you agree?

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#145

03-29-2005, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Trent Edison

It sucks to be the owner of affiliate program that uses NATS and reads this thread now...

Actually, it doesn't. NATS is great software and we've never had a problem paying our affiliates what they are owed. We compare our NATS stats daily with the billing processor backend stats to verify correctness. In fact we had an error in which our fraudulant checks were not removed from our NATS statistics. We did pay out on this and we did take the loss. With some contact, the issue was resolved and the same problem hasn't arrisen again.

The problem here is with some data being lost while the 2 backends were communicating. This happens in the world of software, and I'm sure it'll happen many more times with many other companies.

There is no motive for NATS to shave rebills. They don't benefit from anything like this. It wouldn't help them sell their product if they had a bad reputation, and they have no way to funnel this money to themselves. Data losses do happen. This is why it's key to always do a once over with your own eyes to make sure everything is lined up.

I'm sorry J&A about the error. I'm not disrespecting you guys or trying to validate what happened. The best thing to do is to resolve this in private with the company in question. All that happened is that this has become a one sided public mudslinging event. While you are dragging NATS's name through the mud, you are also dragging companies that use NATS along with them. Whether or not this has happened with anybody but yourselves, you are also herding many sheep away from programs utilizing this software. Good luck with your future endeavours.
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#146

03-29-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by JOKEREMPIRE

Thanx for admitting the false allegations issue.

And exactly that was what forced them to post more than the original thread.

I know JSA are straight shooters with nothing to hide,but after John calling them liars and telling me some more what was not posted here I could not say I'm sure I could say the same about NATS and the company behind it.

I tend to always hear both sides of a story, one was way off without proof,
the other looked more on side of truth and gave proof, now who do you want to blame for what they believe in?

Remaining professional is always a good business descision, don't you agree?

Interesting that you'd say both sides of the story. My granny always says that there are 3 sides to every story. This one happens to have more than that.

But hey, everyone likes a good bit of drama right before a show, Phoenix should be interesting.
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JOKER

Facit Omnia Voluntas

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#147

03-29-2005, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by shermsshack

Actually, it doesn't. NATS is great software and we've never had a problem paying our affiliates what they are owed. We compare our NATS stats daily with the billing processor backend stats to verify correctness. In fact we had an error in which our fraudulant checks were not removed from our NATS statistics. We did pay out on this and we did take the loss. With some contact, the issue was resolved and the same problem hasn't arrisen again.

The problem here is with some data being lost while the 2 backends were communicating. This happens in the world of software, and I'm sure it'll happen many more times with many other companies.

There is no motive for NATS to shave rebills. They don't benefit from anything like this. It wouldn't help them sell their product if they had a bad reputation, and they have no way to funnel this money to themselves. Data losses do happen. This is why it's key to always do a once over with your own eyes to make sure everything is lined up.

I'm sorry J&A about the error. I'm not disrespecting you guys or trying to validate what happened. The best thing to do is to resolve this in private with the company in question. All that happened is that this has become a one sided public mudslinging event. While you are dragging NATS's name through the mud, you are also dragging companies that use NATS along with them. Whether or not this has happened with anybody but yourselves, you are also herding many sheep away from programs utilizing this software. Good luck with your future endeavours.

No disrespect, but did you actually read everything around this issue, or do you just fly over the posts and assume you read all?

Thanx

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iBanker

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#148

03-29-2005, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by shermsshack

I'm sorry J&A about the error. I'm not disrespecting you guys or trying to validate what happened. The best thing to do is to resolve this in private with the company in question. All that happened is that this has become a one sided public mudslinging event. While you are dragging NATS's name through the mud, you are also dragging companies that use NATS along with them. Whether or not this has happened with anybody but yourselves, you are also herding many sheep away from programs utilizing this software. Good luck with your future endeavours.

And that is the last thing we want to is harm other companies using NATS. We know we have common affiliates that push both of our programs sometimes, and we want you to keep them happy and profitable as much as we do.

But they also deserve the right to know what is going on. I am sure you do not disagree.

They are our partners, and we will continue to treat them that way. I apologize if our actions have cause you grief. We have only stated that these problems were ones we experienced. I hope you did not.

(edit typos)

Last edited by iBanker; 03-29-2005, 12:10 PM.

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Christopher's ICQ: 268-843-170
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Michael O

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#149

03-29-2005, 12:12 PM

Supporting one software over another is a lose/lose situation in this case.
One software seems to have a few bugs in it that they couldn´t/wouldn´t fix the other don´t mind giving a helping hand to affiliate program owners wanting to cheat and steal from their affiliates. You can keep this up for the next 90 days and the supporters of each program will stand by their decision but is one program better than the other for every webmaster? Webmasters can only find out for themselves.

For webmasters it comes down to which ever program makes you the most money not what program they use cause can you really trust anyone? Mistakes/bugs will happen and cheaters and scammers will always be around.

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Nathan

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#150

03-29-2005, 12:13 PM

Official NATS statement regarding JSA

Let me point out directly that we hope JSA finds what they are looking for in MPA3, we realize that no one solution is perfect for every company, and we welcome competition.

That said, we feel that a statement from our point of view is in order to clear up some of the rumors and accusations that have been flying around the past 24 hours or so.

Let me first of all address the Electracash issue Chris brought up:

We were told about a rebill problem JSA had via our Ticket System on Wed Nov 24, 2004 05:08:27pm. What followed were a few other posts by Chris explaining the issue in more detail to give us the most information he could get us. We looked into it and replied about it on Wed Nov 24, 2004 08:54:17pm. Our reply basically said, we have found the issue and will work on it to get it fixed right away. (I'm going to spare everyone with the details about what the problem was.) We also assured JSA that no data is lost, it is all on Electracash's side, we simply have to fetch it from their backend and put it into the NATS database. On Sun Nov 28, 2004 03:39:31pm we informed JSA of an implementation issue we had with Electracash and to please switch ACH to one of their other billers that do support this also until we have it fixed. We gave them detailed information on what the issue was and told them we are working on it together with Electracash. This issue took longer to be resolved together with Electracash than we expected and it was just 100% fixed two or so weeks ago.
JSA's ticket about the rebills was kept open by us so we do not forget to import their rebills once the issue was resolved. JSA however closed this ticket on Tue Jan 11, 2005 02:01:32pm and thus we did not notice them still having the issue when the integration was finally fixed.
I can not find any other ticket regarding Electracash rebills from them in our ticketing system.

JSA has claimed there were other reporting issues. I am sure I know which ones they talk about, but will not comment in detail on every one of them because I do not feel we need to continue pushing eachother in a bad light where it is absolutely uncalled for. Let me make one thing clear though, JSA currently has not a single open ticket in our ticketing system. The last ticket they posted is from March 17th and was promptly explained and resolved.

If anyone has detailed questions about this, please let me know on ICQ, I will try to stay up as long as I can to answer all your questions. Please understand I can not go into details of our client's systems without them letting me do so.

"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie Munger
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